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    View Poll Results: Do you consult KBB/NADA before car shopping?

    Voters
    54. You may not vote on this poll
    • Always

      9 16.67%
    • Sometimes

      7 12.96%
    • No, KBB/NADA's suggested prices are over-inflated

      8 14.81%
    • No, I already know what I want to spend before I leave home

      16 29.63%
    • I like turtles

      14 25.93%
    Results 1 to 23 of 23

    Thread: When buying used, how many of you won't spend a dime over KBB value?

    1. Member PrimaVW's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 09:44 PM #1
      How many of you will consult KBB (or NADA) before buying a used car? Will you turn away from an "excellent condition" vehicle if its a dime over KBB/NADA value? I understand there are many used car dealers floating around out there who will pretty much adhere to the KBB standard even though a car may not stand up to that "excellent" condition standard KBB lays out.

      Reason I ask is I've been searching for a used vehicle, and so far I've been appalled at the amount of cars going for "excellent" prices when they are not even close. I've looked at a car with an auto that shifted rough and had a removed CEL that they knocked a whopping $50 off the KBB, and another with an R title that was $1000 over KBB. Not only that but it seems like people will spend thousands on a car in mods and then turn around and ask a small fortune for a 15+ year old car. What gives?

      I know dealers are out to make money, etc, etc, but I'm just curious how many of you will actually check KBB before hitting the dealer's lots. Discuss. Vote if ya like as well.
      Last edited by PrimaVW; 03-24-2011 at 09:48 PM.
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    2. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 09:47 PM #2
      Only dealers use KBB

      I'll pay over NADA if I think it's worth it.

    3. Member Pool Runner's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 10:45 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by MustacheGT View Post
      Only dealers use KBB

      I'll pay over NADA if I think it's worth it.
      This....

      Back in 2002 I bought a '92 Acura Integra GS-R off a 50+ year old guy that was in absolutely "mint" condition. Guy bought it new in '92 and managed to only put 33K miles on the car in 10 years of owning it and storing it covered in his garage. Had every possible resipt for this car including gas fillups. Car was dropped on Koni yellows, Neuspeed sways & strut bars, had two bras one full hood and one half, also two car covers and some ugly but real deal gold BBS wheels from circa 1990 or so. He even had the OEM stock wheels on track rubber. Anyway I will put you all to sleep with the engine modifications, however the exterior was all stock and clean. This was the only time I ever paid way more for a car than KBB, since I knew this guy and had to drive by the car everyday of my life for years prior I basically waited for him to put it up for sale. He wanted $8,900 for this car, at the time KBB said it should have been worth $5,500 I offered $6500 cash and he said no, then called me a week later and said he would do $6800 because he knew I would care for it. Wish I still had a picture of this car but since it was a print, I lost the album a few years ago when I moved. I dearly miss that car and to this day it was still one of my favorite cars ever. I sadly traded it two years later for a damn MKIV Jetta GLS but the V-Dub dealer still gave me $5K for the car.

    4. Member iamsuperdan's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 10:55 PM #4
      n Canada, we have the Black Book. It's out to lunch 99% of the time. It may be too high or too low, but you can rely on it to never accurately represent true market value.

      When I look for used, I have a budget, but I'm willing to pay more for the right car/truck.
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    5. Member Biff Beltsander's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 11:05 PM #5
      The car would have to have value added modifications such as a Thule rack, trailer hitch with wiring, new wheels, new things etc for me to pay more then book value.

    6. Member jamerican1's Avatar
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      03-24-2011 11:08 PM #6
      I've always paid under KBB...
      Unf*ckwithable

    7. 03-24-2011 11:28 PM #7
      That depends...

      KBB is just for reference. For example, you can easily find a 1-2 year old Ford Focus in mint condition @ under KBB. But a late 90's Civic that's in OK condition would go for 20-40% over the KBB value. It's all about supply and demand

    8. 03-24-2011 11:30 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Pool Runner View Post
      I sadly traded it two years later for a damn MKIV Jetta GLS
      Oh wow. Just...

    9. Member stascom's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 12:09 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      Oh wow. Just...
      Yeah, I actually had to read that twice. "Wait, no freaking way... Oh, shti, no he didn't!"

    10. Member punisher89's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 12:27 AM #10
      Quoting Kelly Blue Book depends on what side of the fence you're standing on. I have customers trading in cars that always bitch and complain about how the offer is $500 lower than KBB trade-in but they don't realize the car they are looking to purchase is $1200 below KBB retail.

      I like to tell people, if someone said "Wow, that's an awesome watch I'll give you $5,000 for it. Then they give you a piece of paper with $5,000 written on it, that piece of paper is not worth $5,000 and neither is the watch."

      KBB makes me want to pimp-slap a grizzly bear.
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    11. Member Troike's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 12:29 AM #11
      liking the early returns



      i've usually paid over bluebook. but always for great Golfs
      priceless/worthless Vanagons obviously outside the spectrum.
      Last edited by Troike; 03-25-2011 at 12:31 AM.
      << so it Hz >>

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    12. Senior Member dunhamjr's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 01:04 AM #12
      book prices are a suggestion. i do my best to pay less then whatever the books say.

      overall i want to feel good about the purchase. if the car is rare or a bit hard to find, then the market for the car is likely above kbb and i will pay what is needed to get the car, if i really want it.

      according to kbb i WAY overpaid for my 93 S4. but its really quite a rare car, and it has TONS of quality parts (tap, abt, rs2, 2bennet, etc) on it to help justify the price.
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    13. Member kamzcab86's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 02:13 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Troike View Post
      liking the early returns

      I voted for the turtles... 'cuz, well, I have one crawling around my living room.

      Quote Originally Posted by Troike View Post
      priceless/worthless Vanagons obviously outside the spectrum.
      ^No joke. KBB on a 1991 Vanagon GL Westfalia in excellent condition with 165K miles is $9,600. You cannot actually buy one like that for less than $14,000. And if you go to GoWesty to buy one, you cannot get one for less than about $25,000 (don't even ask about the Syncro version!). KBB value is not the same as market value, particularly with Vanagon Westfalias.
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    14. 03-25-2011 11:25 AM #14
      It really depends. This is a big discussion with boat people too, and a lot of people say they will for the right one.

      I don't agree. It depends on the type of car (or boat), but if the car is older and you are paying cash, then I would say the sky is the limit depending on what you want. I know, for example, that 1991 Taurus SHOs in decent shape are unobtanium. So when one comes up, NADA says its worth a grand at most. In reality, I know its now closer to 5 grand.

      But if its a normal DD that you are financing, not only do I feel NADA should be heeded, but so do banks. If you agree to a price over NADA and you don't have the balance to make up in cash, you aren't buying the car.

      And I always look at a car purchase with an eye on resale. That's just good finance sense, so therefore if I pay thousands over NADA, it's money I will never get back.
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    15. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 11:47 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by GolfVIDriver View Post
      But if its a normal DD that you are financing, not only do I feel NADA should be heeded, but so do banks. If you agree to a price over NADA and you don't have the balance to make up in cash, you aren't buying the car.
      Except financing a used car 100% is rarely a smart idea given used car interest rates.

    16. Member a2a4raddo's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 11:50 AM #16
      KBB is useless. They dont buy or sell cars. Their suggested retail price is typically more then what dealers asking prices are (let alone transaction prices). Their trade in value is typically higher then what your car is really worth as a trade in. On the flip side, with many older cars...KBB will value them at much less then they are actually worth/selling for.

      So no, i never use KBB as it is way off base most of the time. Nada is better, but still not accurate.

    17. Member MagicBus's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 12:00 PM #17
      I usually just try to pay as little as possible. This changed a few weeks ago when I was in need of a better daily driver. Adjusted for condition, I overpaid for my new Subaru in terms of book value, but they've been selling in that range lately. I paid fair market value, I guess, or perhaps a bit more.

      But, it is the car I wanted, which is important, and I know I can fix it up.

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      03-25-2011 12:10 PM #18
      are you kidding??

      I just bought a DSM GS-T for $900, as clean and it can get, all stock. I never pay more than half the car's value.

    19. Senior Member Jman5000's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 01:38 PM #19
      OP I don't understand the fact that you're "appalled".

      Dealers are going to be lean towards the upside on condition and try to maximize the selling price and/or pad the first number to accommodate negotiation. Nothing new there... the proportions may vary but private parties do the same.

      Keep an eye on some of the cars that you've looked at but have deemed too costly. If the market isn't bearing the price, head back in 60-90 days and make another offer.

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      03-25-2011 02:08 PM #20
      its a good starting point.

      My "bible" is a spreadsheet I compile myself.

      I will track a car I'm interested in on eBay for a month or so and follow the "completed auctions" option, only following cars that are in green (they actually sold).

      I track the options/mileage/location as well as sale price and use that as my guide for what the current market is bearing in terms of the value of the car.

      I always keep in mind that mods ad little to no value to a car, and frequently decrease its value.

      Those people asking $10,000 for a $3,500 car because they sunk a lot of money into it are insane - they're not going to get their money back, not everyone's tastes match theirs.
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    21. Member finklejag's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 02:47 PM #21
      Dealers go by KBB when they sell used cars. Then tell you they don't go by KBB on trade-ins. They go by auction price, which is uber lower then the KBB value. Double standard!

    22. Member a2a4raddo's Avatar
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      03-25-2011 05:45 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by finklejag View Post
      Dealers go by KBB when they sell used cars. Then tell you they don't go by KBB on trade-ins. They go by auction price, which is uber lower then the KBB value. Double standard!
      Thats should be expected. basing an asking price on kbb is just that. Its an Asking price, people dont walk into a dealer and usually pay asking price, they negotiate off the price. You would do the same if you were a dealer. With that said, the majority of cars i've personally looked at on dealer lots were priced (asking price) Below kbb value. In fact i had a dealer tell me (when appraising my trade) not to go by KBB. They over estimate trades as well as retail prices. Then he told me to go look at the asking prices for anything in his inventory and check what KBB suggests he should be asking for them. Typically 2-3grand more then he's asking.

    23. Member punisher89's Avatar
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      03-26-2011 12:24 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by a2a4raddo View Post
      Thats should be expected. basing an asking price on kbb is just that. Its an Asking price, people dont walk into a dealer and usually pay asking price, they negotiate off the price. You would do the same if you were a dealer. With that said, the majority of cars i've personally looked at on dealer lots were priced (asking price) Below kbb value. In fact i had a dealer tell me (when appraising my trade) not to go by KBB. They over estimate trades as well as retail prices. Then he told me to go look at the asking prices for anything in his inventory and check what KBB suggests he should be asking for them. Typically 2-3grand more then he's asking.
      Sounds like you've been shopping at CarMax.
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