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    Thread: UGR TT Gallardo wrecks leaving C&C Atlanta

    1. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 02:40 PM #36
      awww boo hoo
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    2. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 02:46 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by warrenW View Post
      isn't there a way around this though? BOV, wastegates, etc?

      (excuse my ignorance- i am not super well informed on turbo setups)
      No not really.

      With good tuning they can drive very well out of the boost. Once you're in the RPM window where the turbos can spool, it's very difficult to control.

      When your boost pressure is below the threshold of your wastegate springs, you have no control over how the turbos spool. It can't be programmed into the ECU or boost controller.

      The problem is that airflow is controlled by two somewhate independent systems - the throttle and the turbocharger boost. Both have their limitations.

    3. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 02:59 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      When your boost pressure is below the threshold of your wastegate springs, you have no control over how the turbos spool. It can't be programmed into the ECU or boost controller.


      Tell that to Jeff Atwood. I've been in his personal turbo car that he has programmed with gear specific TQ limiting. Since he is FWD, he limits how much power it makes (different for each gear) so that it is easier to drive within the tires limitation.

      I'd imagine he could do the same for the Gallardo within a short time period..the ECU are probably very similar.
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      04-03-2011 02:59 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      No not really.

      With good tuning they can drive very well out of the boost. Once you're in the RPM window where the turbos can spool, it's very difficult to control.

      When your boost pressure is below the threshold of your wastegate springs, you have no control over how the turbos spool. It can't be programmed into the ECU or boost controller.

      The problem is that airflow is controlled by two somewhate independent systems - the throttle and the turbocharger boost. Both have their limitations.
      you can just run a low spring pressure with high gain on a good controller. the turbosmart e boost controllers work great for this, allowing you to have low boost for x amount of time or distance.

      i have mine set up so that my boost ramps from spring pressure to 100% above spring at redline. it makes it much more driveable, and so far, it seems to be helping me not break parts (gears).

    5. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 03:12 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      Tell that to Jeff Atwood. I've been in his personal turbo car that he has programmed with gear specific TQ limiting. Since he is FWD, he limits how much power it makes (different for each gear) so that it is easier to drive within the tires limitation.

      I'd imagine he could do the same for the Gallardo within a short time period..the ECU are probably very similar.
      That's an apples to oranges comparison. And we're talking about limiting part throttle torque, not full throttle torque which is much easier to do.

      And most of the TT Gallardos are running Motec stand alones as far as I know.

      Quote Originally Posted by TBT-Syncro View Post
      you can just run a low spring pressure with high gain on a good controller. the turbosmart e boost controllers work great for this, allowing you to have low boost for x amount of time or distance.

      i have mine set up so that my boost ramps from spring pressure to 100% above spring at redline. it makes it much more driveable, and so far, it seems to be helping me not break parts (gears).
      That may work on your setup, but it's not going to work on many. Wastegate springs often need to be stiff for a reason. By reducing that, you could lose your boost control on the top end and see boost creep, boost fluctuation, or other control issues by having a weaker spring.

      Bottom line, it's not easy to do. If it was, these guys would already be doing it because it's not like it's a bunch of n00bs tuning these cars.

    6. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 03:14 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by JustinCSVT View Post
      Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn. I left there about 2 hours ago. At least the TT Z06 is still in one piece.
      Did you get to see my 97 Accord?

      Did you drive your C5? What color is it?

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      04-03-2011 03:17 PM #42
      Where is the Atlanta C&C held? And what time/day?

    8. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 10:20 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by MatthewDorsett View Post
      Where is the Atlanta C&C held? And what time/day?
      First Sundays of the month at Mansell Crossing. Exit 8 on GA400 at Northpoint Parkway. Next month will be in front of Toys R Us.

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      04-03-2011 10:36 PM #44
      Those are my favorite factory Lambo wheels.
      exklusiv

    10. Member IgorRGTI's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 10:49 PM #45
      Dayum!

      I was planning on going to that C&C today, but was too lazy to wake up early.

      Sucks I missed seeing this, as well at that LFA at last months meet .

    11. Member warrenW's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 11:07 PM #46
      they do use motec standalone. i am not sure if they use boost by gear or not; ive heard of it being done, but im not sure if UGR does it or not.

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      04-03-2011 11:07 PM #47




      I was in my kitchen. Cleaning a dish. I heard it, so I came out. Shoes? F*** shoes...this guy with shoes!! haha


      But in all seriousness, I was sitting at the light waiting to turn on NPP when I saw a black Bentley GT Convertible pull a Uturn and go back up NPP. As soon as I went through the light, I saw the Bentley pulled over and they were out checking on the Lambo that I assumed just mounted the curb. I'm not saying the Bentley was involved with the wreck but he was 1st there....

      When I came back through there over an hour later, thats when I took these pics. A cop yelled at me for holding up traffic so I didnt get one of the lambo sitting there... MustacheGT thanks for grabbing them!

    13. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 11:17 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by warrenW View Post
      they do use motec standalone. i am not sure if they use boost by gear or not; ive heard of it being done, but im not sure if UGR does it or not.
      Boost by gear type features are totally different than what we're talking about.

      It's not that difficult to limit the WOT maximum power using this feature.

      We're talking about part throttle driveability and keeping the gas pedal linear.

    14. Member wantacad's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 11:22 PM #49
      No vids yet? it's been almost 12 hours...hurry up peoples..
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      Cheers, WWR.
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    15. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      04-03-2011 11:46 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Boost by gear type features are totally different than what we're talking about.

      It's not that difficult to limit the WOT maximum power using this feature.

      We're talking about part throttle driveability and keeping the gas pedal linear.


      You can limit TQ for each gear, regardless of throttle position. Nobody ever mentioned WOT except you.
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      04-03-2011 11:51 PM #51
      UGR cars use either AEM or MoTeC standalone engine management depending on options, and while a lot of them are run as RWD on the dyno I would imagine that most if not all go back to AWD after they have their power numbers. Anybody know if this was a 6 speed manual or E-Gear car?

    17. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 12:01 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Ben_S View Post
      while a lot of them are run as RWD on the dyno I would imagine that most if not all go back to AWD after they have their power numbers. Anybody know if this was a 6 speed manual or E-Gear car?

      I have a friend that has run at the Texas mile a few events and he is the one that told me they convert to RWD. (and run like that)

      Apparently they hang out over at 6speedonline if anyone cares enough to look.
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    18. Moderator MylesPH1's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 12:01 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by PowerDubs View Post
      You can limit TQ for each gear, regardless of throttle position. Nobody ever mentioned WOT except you.
      The original question he answered regarded what happens with turbo boost when you feather the throttle, and how it's tough to limit or modulate once the turbos are spooling. It wasn't really about electronic limits for this, though everyone went on to point out how that can be done.
      - A bunch of old, tough, unbreakable German iron
      - One temperamental, stubborn, fragile Italian thing

    19. 04-04-2011 12:25 AM #54
      All turbos should be banned.

    20. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 12:36 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by MylesPH1 View Post
      The original question he answered regarded what happens with turbo boost when you feather the throttle, and how it's tough to limit or modulate once the turbos are spooling. It wasn't really about electronic limits for this, though everyone went on to point out how that can be done.
      No amount of electronic nannying can fix stupid.
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      04-04-2011 12:40 AM #56
      UGR's turbo setup makes for an insane powerband. Also with AWD, I wish someone took a video of them punting it off the road. 1,000++whp in these cars is no joke at all.
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    22. Member Peloton25's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 03:00 AM #57
      The story:

      "This happened today at Caffeine & Octane here in GA. Owner (Name held back, I'd request the same if you know him) is a laid back and down to earth guy (was giving joy rides to 60 year old lady ). As he was leaving, stepped on it a little, car slid, spun around and jumped the curve. He wasn't even doing 20mph. Walked up to him and he was fine, but it turned out culprit was his shoe heel. Part of it came loose and as he stepped on the brakes, the loose part stayed partially on gas. Which kept him from full braking and gassed the car at the same time. He maintained his cool as people made fun of the situation, mad props to him for staying calm. We got together and helped him get the car out and on flat bed (it was a bitch to get in on). His last few lines were, "well gives me a reason to put some nice wheels and tint my tail lights lol."

      Damage: The rear frame snapped off clean where the control arm bolts on to. No under body damage, no leaks, and car fired right up. He said car is going in for repairs monday and should be back for next C & O.

      PS: Before some smart comments come up like, "needs to learn to drive." He has owned this for over a year, and his other cars include a built TT C6 Plastic mess-06 making 1200whp+. Just bad luck i would say.
      So apparently it was a wardrobe malfunction.

      More pics:





















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      04-04-2011 08:11 AM #58
      Unintended acceleration?

    24. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 08:49 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by warrenW View Post
      isn't there a way around this though? BOV, wastegates, etc?

      (excuse my ignorance- i am not super well informed on turbo setups)
      You can use electronics to manage boost by gear, boost by RPM, whatever you want.


      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      When your boost pressure is below the threshold of your wastegate springs, you have no control over how the turbos spool.

      Run lighter springs and turn it up with a controller. Much more consistent with an electronic controller anyway.
      Last edited by SVTDanny; 04-04-2011 at 08:54 AM.

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      04-04-2011 08:56 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by peloton's quote
      Damage: The rear frame snapped off clean where the control arm bolts on to.
      so these cars have detachable penii?

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      04-04-2011 09:00 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by sirswank View Post
      so these cars have detachable penii?
      LOL, nice throwback... makes me think of Beavis and Butthead

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=643NT8XkshE
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      04-04-2011 09:15 AM #62
      PS: Before some smart comments come up like, "needs to learn to drive." He has owned this for over a year, and his other cars include a built TT C6 Plastic mess-06 making 1200whp+. Just bad luck i would say.
      This cracks me up.
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    28. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 09:34 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post

      Run lighter springs and turn it up with a controller. Much more consistent with an electronic controller anyway.
      I've already said you can have control issues at high RPM with softer springs.

      And of course you'd use an electronic controller. I'm pretty sure that's all done from the stand alone.

      You can program anything you want electronically, but that doesn't mean the system will respond perfectly. It's a closed loop system meaning it needs to read the boost and adjust the wastegates accordingly. Considering how quick these cars blow through the RPM band, that's not easy.

      Look at the power curve, it doubles horsepower and torque between 4k and 5k RPM. At part throttle, you're going to have a flat torque curve when the turbos don't spool. As you keep increasing the throttle, you'll eventually get spool in that region and the car will gain power. It will always be lumpy in that region.

      Big turbo cars will never have power curves and power delivery as smooth as a normally aspirated car. The more air you move with the turbo, the more difficult it becomes.


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      04-04-2011 09:35 AM #64
      Part of it came loose and as he stepped on the brakes, the loose part stayed partially on gas. Which kept him from full braking and gassed the car at the same time.
      He must wear Italian shoes too.

      (story sounds like bs to cover a dumb mistake.. but whatever)
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      04-04-2011 09:41 AM #65

      her son?


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      04-04-2011 10:20 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by MustacheGT View Post
      Did you hear/see that yellow C6 rumbling around?

      Also, it's moving to the other side of NP Pkwy next month since AMC whined about parking and there isn't enough parking in its current spot.
      I'm pissed I missed it this month

      Yeah I heard the movies were bitching b/c "people go to the movies early Sunday"...the meet seems to have grown since it moved up here from Roswell.

      Sad to see the Lambo get hurt

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      04-04-2011 10:35 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Subwoofers View Post
      What happened?
      too much power combined with too little common sense and too little driving talent would be my guess

    33. Senior Member JustinCSVT's Avatar
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      04-04-2011 11:16 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by MustacheGT View Post
      Did you get to see my 97 Accord?

      Did you drive your C5? What color is it?
      It's black. It was the only dirty Corvette in the show. It had #91 on the windsheild.

    34. 04-04-2011 11:27 AM #69
      Nothing of the actual crash yet but here's the tow off. Well...sort of.
      Last edited by Southern Jetta; 04-04-2011 at 11:29 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by xtravbx View Post
      No one was talking about crub sensors, whatever those are.

      And also, what are "fents, burshes, and briks." ?

      We must not have those in Florida.

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      04-04-2011 06:14 PM #70
      Summary of C&C in one picture. Pure craziness.


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