....Water Meth Injection.....good or bad idea?

[coachvtt]

No wonder Coaches TT is so slow

Yea ok!

[madmax199]

I'm not looking for gains if there is it's slight.
I'm using the water/meth for cooling purposes.
I mean it gives me a shot of adrenalin like running a cool engine all day.
In the mornings the engine is cool and runs well when the engine temps are up to normal its a little sluggish. With the water/Meth its like running a cool morning engine all day.

Only using it for chemical cooling is like using a smart phone to only make phone calls.
Take advantage of the increased knock threshold and bump boost and timing accordingly.

[bvgoosedd]

i use devils own. i have to fill it like every other week but i really don't get on my car too much. i also use their premix. it's $10 the shop that i go to has em. but i rather pay ten evey two weeks and know that im safe. i havent really tuned for it yet but i do notice a difference all ready.

[coachvtt]

Only using it for chemical cooling is like using a smart phone to only make phone calls.
Take advantage of the increased knock threshold and bump boost and timing accordingly.

Well I have the Giac 93+ software and my guy says that as not necessary
If you say to bump boost I have with the mbc and timing should adjust itself according to GIAC.
Or? are they blowin smoke?

[madmax199]

Well I have the Giac 93+ software and my guy says that as not necessary
If you say to bump boost I have with the mbc and timing should adjust itself according to GIAC.
Or? are they blowin smoke?

Your guy is clueless if he said that, start learning how to do stuff yourself or get a new guy.
Timing does not adjust itself. If the ecu was already pulling timing to protect the engine from detonation due to heat or lack of octane, you will get the few points of timing correction back.

What you want is a flashed, increased timing curve, since your knock limit is much higher because of the lower IAT and higher octane from water injection. I was able to add 6* of timing at 30 psi, on a single 5 gal/hour nozzle(I also have a giac flash). I would say 5* points can be easily bumped, since you will not be increasing your boost as dramatically as I did.

As far as boost is concerned, a conservative 2-3 psi increase should be pretty safe and give you a nice power increase. Your guy should be able to do it with software but seeing how inconpetent most flash dealers are, it may not be the case. You could also do it mechanically with your MBC.
I'd also suggest, if your going to do it, to make sure you have a way to log everything so you are sure, nothing is out of line.

[warranty225cpe]

Can any chip tuned car tune for water meth? Can I advance timing with an APR file?

[madmax199]

Can any chip tuned car tune for water meth? Can I advance timing with an APR file?

Yes you can, as far as I know(I have heard of locked APR ecu), advance timing and modify any of the open adaptation channels.

Lemmiwinks(serial) or Unisetting(USB) are free sofwares that will make the modifications.

The following is copied and pasted from my E85 tuning notes

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...5-tuning-notes

This is what the unisetting screen look like:
Most of the values should be pre set a 100% or 0%



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

There are 14 channels and that's their basic definition:

Channel 1: Additive Engine Idle Speed Offset
This channel allows one to adjust the engine idle speed in steps of 10
rev/min.

Channel 2: Tweak on fuel enrichment based on increasing loads (i.e. accel pump)
This channel adjusts a fuel enrichment term that is proportional to load
rate of change and that acts to enrich full when the engine load is
increasing. This is equivalent to an accelerator pump function

Channel 3: Tweak on fuel enrichment based on decreasing loads
This is very similar in function to channel 2 but adjusts a term
that works to decrease fuel when engine load is decreasing.

Channel 4: Tweak on Startup Fuel Enrichment
This adjusts the startup fuel enrichment term.

Channel 5: Tweak on Warmup Fuel Enrichment
This adjusts the warmup fuel enrichment term.

Channel 6: Lambda Regulation
This tweaks a lambda regulation system's narrowband oxygen sensor
cycle time in steps of 10 milliseconds.

Channel 7: Additive Offset On Speed Limiter
This is allows one to adjust the speed limiter in steps of 1 kmh.

Channel 8: Secondary Fuel Tweak
This adjusts the main fuel term.

Channel 9: Additive offset on ignition timing angle
Allows one to shift the ignition timing angle up or down in steps of
0.75 degrees.

Channel 10: Primary Fuel Tweak
This adjusts the main fuel term.

Channel 11: Not used

Channel 12: Specified Engine Load Scaling Factor (Turbocharged cars only)
This factor allows one to scale the specified engine load. The default
value comes set at the maximum value, so specified engine loads can only
be reduced with this adaptation channel.

Channel 13: Control Bits
These control bits affect engine idle control.

Channel 14: Additive Offset To Idle Torque
This channel allows one to raise the minimum torque maintained at idle

There are a couple of more channels that are purposely hidden and don't appear on both unisetting and lemmiwinks. One of them allow boost modifications but you have to open unisetting in Hex editor to manually have access and make changes to these ghost channels.

[coachvtt]

I should have gotten APR...I'll head back to the dude and see if he can adjust...
Thanks!

Warranty..Damn it get to work!...

[madmax199]

I should have gotten APR...I'll head back to the dude and see if he can adjust...
Thanks!

Warranty..Damn it get to work!...

Unisetting works with any flash, so if your dude dissapoints (as expected), you could also get to work.

[jamestown478]

Unisetting works with any flash, so if your dude dissapoints (as expected), you could also get to work.

I couldn't get unisettings to work with my apr tune on my s4 when I had apr on it.

[madmax199]

I couldn't get unisettings to work with my apr tune on my s4 when I had apr on it.

Below, I copied and pasted from post #42, you must have had a locked APR.

"Yes you can, as far as I know(I have heard of locked APR ecu) , advance timing and modify any of the open adaptation channels."

[jamestown478]

Below, I copied and pasted from post #42, you must have had a locked APR.

"Yes you can, as far as I know(I have heard of locked APR ecu) , advance timing and modify any of the open adaptation channels."

yea musta had a locked one. Glad I got rid of it for epl lol.

[coachvtt]

I have the Lemmiwinks downloaded.
Do I need the Vag-Cable or what other cable can I use?
I also had a coversation with the Dude that flashed my ecu with GIAC 93+ suggested I reflash and get the GIAC 100+.
Is this an option or not?

[coachvtt]

Only using it for chemical cooling is like using a smart phone to only make phone calls.
Take advantage of the increased knock threshold and bump boost and timing accordingly.

Ok! I bought the Vag cable and I get a code that it will not connect O55x wtf?

Lemmiwinks software etc,.

[coachvtt]

Ok! I bought the Vag cable and I get a code that it will not connect O55x wtf?

Lemmiwinks software etc,.

Unisettings software is uploaded from?

Maybe its the Lemmiwinks software is incorrect on my laptop

[Audiguy84]

Unisettings is on unitronics web site.

[Marcus_Aurelius]

That took you long enough Coachv

If your cable is USB, you need Unisetting, lemmi is old school and serial.

[2T2T5]

I am running an APR 93 octane file on 91 pump gas and meth and there is zero KR. I'm running the Devils kit with two nozzles, eventually if I decide to start tuning aggressively I'll swap my control module to something with a good failsafe. But I ran +3.75 added timing with unisettings on my stock ecu and it really livened the car up. Like some have said, its like driving in cool weather all the time! Because my kit is fairly basic I dont add so much timing that the ecu cant pull enough timing (if the pump fails etc) and cant save itself then you get lots of boom boom. But I think meth is a good failsafe in itself helping prevent knock even if you dont tune super aggressive. For me, it was worth it and I learned some good info along the way.

Dont forget to do logs if you add timing! I live in OK and I haven't logged the car past 78 degree ambient temps. We are getting up past the 80's so I really get to put meth to the test when we hit 90-100

[coachvtt]

That took you long enough Coachv

If your cable is USB, you need Unisetting, lemmi is old school and serial.

well two kids will do that to ya...just have not have had time to piss with it...

unisettings I need to download on the laptop