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    Thread: ....Water Meth Injection.....good or bad idea?

    1. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      05-10-2011 06:26 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by warranty225cpe View Post
      No wonder Coaches TT is so slow
      Yea ok!

    2. Banned madmax199's Avatar
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      05-10-2011 06:52 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by coachvtt View Post
      I'm not looking for gains if there is it's slight.
      I'm using the water/meth for cooling purposes.
      I mean it gives me a shot of adrenalin like running a cool engine all day.
      In the mornings the engine is cool and runs well when the engine temps are up to normal its a little sluggish. With the water/Meth its like running a cool morning engine all day.

      Only using it for chemical cooling is like using a smart phone to only make phone calls.
      Take advantage of the increased knock threshold and bump boost and timing accordingly.

    3. Member bvgoosedd's Avatar
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      05-10-2011 07:48 PM #38
      i use devils own. i have to fill it like every other week but i really don't get on my car too much. i also use their premix. it's $10 the shop that i go to has em. but i rather pay ten evey two weeks and know that im safe. i havent really tuned for it yet but i do notice a difference all ready.

    4. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      05-11-2011 07:57 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by madmax199 View Post
      Only using it for chemical cooling is like using a smart phone to only make phone calls.
      Take advantage of the increased knock threshold and bump boost and timing accordingly.
      Well I have the Giac 93+ software and my guy says that as not necessary
      If you say to bump boost I have with the mbc and timing should adjust itself according to GIAC.
      Or? are they blowin smoke?

    5. Banned madmax199's Avatar
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      05-11-2011 10:22 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by coachvtt View Post
      Well I have the Giac 93+ software and my guy says that as not necessary
      If you say to bump boost I have with the mbc and timing should adjust itself according to GIAC.
      Or? are they blowin smoke?
      Your guy is clueless if he said that, start learning how to do stuff yourself or get a new guy.
      Timing does not adjust itself. If the ecu was already pulling timing to protect the engine from detonation due to heat or lack of octane, you will get the few points of timing correction back.

      What you want is a flashed, increased timing curve, since your knock limit is much higher because of the lower IAT and higher octane from water injection. I was able to add 6* of timing at 30 psi, on a single 5 gal/hour nozzle(I also have a giac flash). I would say 5* points can be easily bumped, since you will not be increasing your boost as dramatically as I did.

      As far as boost is concerned, a conservative 2-3 psi increase should be pretty safe and give you a nice power increase. Your guy should be able to do it with software but seeing how inconpetent most flash dealers are, it may not be the case. You could also do it mechanically with your MBC.
      I'd also suggest, if your going to do it, to make sure you have a way to log everything so you are sure, nothing is out of line.

    6. 05-11-2011 11:01 AM #41
      Can any chip tuned car tune for water meth? Can I advance timing with an APR file?

    7. Banned madmax199's Avatar
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      05-11-2011 11:59 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by warranty225cpe View Post
      Can any chip tuned car tune for water meth? Can I advance timing with an APR file?
      Yes you can, as far as I know(I have heard of locked APR ecu), advance timing and modify any of the open adaptation channels.

      Lemmiwinks(serial) or Unisetting(USB) are free sofwares that will make the modifications.

      The following is copied and pasted from my E85 tuning notes

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...5-tuning-notes

      This is what the unisetting screen look like:
      Most of the values should be pre set a 100% or 0%



      Uploaded with ImageShack.us

      There are 14 channels and that's their basic definition:

      Channel 1: Additive Engine Idle Speed Offset
      This channel allows one to adjust the engine idle speed in steps of 10
      rev/min.

      Channel 2: Tweak on fuel enrichment based on increasing loads (i.e. accel pump)
      This channel adjusts a fuel enrichment term that is proportional to load
      rate of change and that acts to enrich full when the engine load is
      increasing. This is equivalent to an accelerator pump function

      Channel 3: Tweak on fuel enrichment based on decreasing loads
      This is very similar in function to channel 2 but adjusts a term
      that works to decrease fuel when engine load is decreasing.

      Channel 4: Tweak on Startup Fuel Enrichment
      This adjusts the startup fuel enrichment term.

      Channel 5: Tweak on Warmup Fuel Enrichment
      This adjusts the warmup fuel enrichment term.

      Channel 6: Lambda Regulation
      This tweaks a lambda regulation system's narrowband oxygen sensor
      cycle time in steps of 10 milliseconds.

      Channel 7: Additive Offset On Speed Limiter
      This is allows one to adjust the speed limiter in steps of 1 kmh.

      Channel 8: Secondary Fuel Tweak
      This adjusts the main fuel term.

      Channel 9: Additive offset on ignition timing angle
      Allows one to shift the ignition timing angle up or down in steps of
      0.75 degrees.

      Channel 10: Primary Fuel Tweak
      This adjusts the main fuel term.

      Channel 11: Not used

      Channel 12: Specified Engine Load Scaling Factor (Turbocharged cars only)
      This factor allows one to scale the specified engine load. The default
      value comes set at the maximum value, so specified engine loads can only
      be reduced with this adaptation channel.

      Channel 13: Control Bits
      These control bits affect engine idle control.

      Channel 14: Additive Offset To Idle Torque
      This channel allows one to raise the minimum torque maintained at idle

      There are a couple of more channels that are purposely hidden and don't appear on both unisetting and lemmiwinks. One of them allow boost modifications but you have to open unisetting in Hex editor to manually have access and make changes to these ghost channels.

    8. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      05-11-2011 02:36 PM #43
      I should have gotten APR...I'll head back to the dude and see if he can adjust...
      Thanks!

      Warranty..Damn it get to work!...

    9. Banned madmax199's Avatar
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      05-11-2011 05:38 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by coachvtt View Post
      I should have gotten APR...I'll head back to the dude and see if he can adjust...
      Thanks!

      Warranty..Damn it get to work!...
      Unisetting works with any flash, so if your dude dissapoints (as expected), you could also get to work.

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      05-12-2011 01:12 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by madmax199 View Post
      Unisetting works with any flash, so if your dude dissapoints (as expected), you could also get to work.
      I couldn't get unisettings to work with my apr tune on my s4 when I had apr on it.
      2000 Audi S4 Tial 770R's built motor (in progress)
      2002 Audi TT 225 quattro

    11. Banned madmax199's Avatar
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      05-12-2011 08:29 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by jamestown478 View Post
      I couldn't get unisettings to work with my apr tune on my s4 when I had apr on it.
      Below, I copied and pasted from post #42, you must have had a locked APR.

      "Yes you can, as far as I know(I have heard of locked APR ecu) , advance timing and modify any of the open adaptation channels."

    12. Member
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      05-12-2011 11:25 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by madmax199 View Post
      Below, I copied and pasted from post #42, you must have had a locked APR.

      "Yes you can, as far as I know(I have heard of locked APR ecu) , advance timing and modify any of the open adaptation channels."
      yea musta had a locked one. Glad I got rid of it for epl lol.
      2000 Audi S4 Tial 770R's built motor (in progress)
      2002 Audi TT 225 quattro

    13. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      05-12-2011 03:37 PM #48
      I have the Lemmiwinks downloaded.
      Do I need the Vag-Cable or what other cable can I use?
      I also had a coversation with the Dude that flashed my ecu with GIAC 93+ suggested I reflash and get the GIAC 100+.
      Is this an option or not?

    14. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 01:52 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by madmax199 View Post
      Only using it for chemical cooling is like using a smart phone to only make phone calls.
      Take advantage of the increased knock threshold and bump boost and timing accordingly.
      Ok! I bought the Vag cable and I get a code that it will not connect O55x wtf?

      Lemmiwinks software etc,.

    15. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 01:55 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by coachvtt View Post
      Ok! I bought the Vag cable and I get a code that it will not connect O55x wtf?

      Lemmiwinks software etc,.
      Unisettings software is uploaded from?

      Maybe its the Lemmiwinks software is incorrect on my laptop

    16. Member Audiguy84's Avatar
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      04-27-2012 05:45 PM #51
      Unisettings is on unitronics web site.

    17. 04-27-2012 06:20 PM #52
      That took you long enough Coachv

      If your cable is USB, you need Unisetting, lemmi is old school and serial.

    18. 04-27-2012 06:50 PM #53
      I am running an APR 93 octane file on 91 pump gas and meth and there is zero KR. I'm running the Devils kit with two nozzles, eventually if I decide to start tuning aggressively I'll swap my control module to something with a good failsafe. But I ran +3.75 added timing with unisettings on my stock ecu and it really livened the car up. Like some have said, its like driving in cool weather all the time! Because my kit is fairly basic I dont add so much timing that the ecu cant pull enough timing (if the pump fails etc) and cant save itself then you get lots of boom boom. But I think meth is a good failsafe in itself helping prevent knock even if you dont tune super aggressive. For me, it was worth it and I learned some good info along the way.

      Dont forget to do logs if you add timing! I live in OK and I haven't logged the car past 78 degree ambient temps. We are getting up past the 80's so I really get to put meth to the test when we hit 90-100
      Last edited by 2T2T5; 04-27-2012 at 06:55 PM.

    19. Member coachvtt's Avatar
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      04-30-2012 09:21 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Marcus_Aurelius View Post
      That took you long enough Coachv

      If your cable is USB, you need Unisetting, lemmi is old school and serial.
      well two kids will do that to ya...just have not have had time to piss with it...

      unisettings I need to download on the laptop

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