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    Thread: Mortgage Q&A

    1. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 12:16 PM #301
      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal
      well technically its a professional position, also a sales position. And most sales position is based on performance, ie commission based. There is a lot of strategy/knowledge a LO should be able to give an individual.
      It may be considered professional to some today but my point it there is no real need for it to be.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal
      You have to keep in mind most people in our country have no clue how to position themselves financially. Whereas it is essentially putting data into fields you have to keep in mind there is a ton of background activity to get a personal qualified for a loan.
      I don't think you will never convince anyone that a loan officer is the proper person to be giving out financial advice, particularly where their commission is at stake. If anything the fact people have no idea about their finances is more a reason to NOT make it a commission job so people are not taken advantage of.

      So yes, it is data entry. As for background activity that's just busy work. None of what you are describing is making a good case for their necessity.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal
      It is a technical position that requires licensing and knowledge and in the end its a sales position and they should be compensated accordingly.
      Don't fool yourself, it isn't all that technical, and certainly not to the level of 6 figures a year. As for licensing that doesn't really mean anything. Study for a few weeks and just about anyone could pass most licensing tests.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal
      also you have to think economically. If the industry as a whole went to high school data entry people, it would not create any market competition thus most likely driving rates up. you have to compensate appropriately for individuals to want to come in the market and get paid accordingly for their time.
      The competition you speak of is artificial and manufactured by the loan officers themselves. Sure they compete against each other but it is only because they are there. If they were not it would be a more pure form of competition. A loan is a commodity, there isn't anything special about it.

      If you do want to reward them for bringing in loans it should be a finders fee based on the type of loan they worked and not based on the value of the house. A particular example is someone with great credit, income, low debt to income... all of that... should not have to fork over any % of their loan value to some officer when their loan is a cakewalk. There is absolutely no value added in the equation by them, only cost.

      It isn't just loan officers, don't think I am taking it all out on you guys. It is most real estate agents too but at least they spend hours and hours driving you around.
      Last edited by jnm2.0t; 01-26-2012 at 12:19 PM.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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    2. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 01:11 PM #302
      For the record I am not a LO, I do accounting/operations.

      I am not trying to pursuade you 1 way or the other. Essentially what you are stating was the Gov't plan to limit what a LO can make so they don't charge a higher rate/fees.

      As stated above the LO has to make income 1 of 2 ways. Either paid by the lender which every rate pays a certain % some below par some over. Or paid by closing fees to the borrower. The best choice for a consumer is to find a LO paid by the lender. At par for the consumer is really only paying roughly .25% this really doesn't increase the true par rate that we receive. Lets say the true rate was at 3.75% well for a LO under contract to make .25% the par rate would be 3.875 at most (generally this rate would pay a touch higher and the overage of the .25% would be credited back to the borrower to pay closing costs) So at least the borrower would get that cash back. its a very small change for the consumer (maybe $5 per month at most) depending on loan amount. So then when the LO gets paid by the lender than cannot charge you any fees upfront (at least for non retail employees) (Retail employees can still charge fees). However the gov't plan has worked well with upfront fees paid by the borrower since the competition with good borrowers has created a lot of these upfront fees to be significantly reduced to obtain the business.

      Overall even if you take out the broker and pay some kid $10 an hour to enter the data the lender would just increase their margins and offer the standard interest rate for the market. we can see this today with bank margins at or near 4 points (Fed rate 0, loan rates 4). In the past before this whole ordeal an average bank margin per Fed was at or near 2.


      In the end it probably would reduce fees or rates slightly. My best guess would be if you took a LO out of the equation rates would maybe drop .125 at most. LO's arent' bad people however a lot of them in the past where obviously bad. Looking back today all those people have left and the few standing are pretty decent individuals not trying to Rob anyone. Just trying to make a living.

      Just have to say, its really not the best practice to throw 1 group of people under the bus. The real problem with lending started at Fannie/Freddie and trickled its way down. Everyone down the chain benefitted greatly from these loose standards. There are places out there that have taken your advice and got rid of the LO. As a matter of fact the way you speak of can be obtained by calling your current lender and asking to refi. I have done this in the past and the deal I could obtain through our company was significantly better than those place (about a 3k difference) so in theory it works but in reality its very minimal.

      One last point, if your working with a person you speak of vs. a commissioned employee. Who do you think will give you better service for a very small premium? Before you answer go ask the people who had to deal with Short Sales or Foreclosures thru their lenders or call your local customer service person and then tell me how great the service was. Most people would agree working with someone who has "skin" in the game will be a ton more helpful than a customer service rep.

    3. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 01:17 PM #303
      just to add a refinance is a pretty standard process, However a purchase transaction is quite difficult. There is a lot that can go wrong. It take a good LO to close a good amount of purchase business. I could get into detail if you wanted, but purchase transactions would be a very difficult process with an untrained individual

      this is where a good LO defines themself vs. a LO that just does refi's. the LO that does refi's won't be in the industry long, purchase business always has and will move the business forward.

      Also mortgages just don't walk through our door daily we work for every 1 we get. Without sales people where would Lenders obtain their business from? Its the same for a plumbing supply company. Sales people drive in the business, Generally the more you pay a sales person the better sales people you get. All businesses pass on cost to consumers. So in your same regards you would have to be pissed about every sales position out there. When you go to Home Depot they price in sales commissions as well. When you buy milk your paying for the delivery guy too!
      Last edited by ruetzal; 01-26-2012 at 01:26 PM.

    4. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 02:18 PM #304
      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      Just have to say, its really not the best practice to throw 1 group of people under the bus.
      Its not the people its the job.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      One last point, if your working with a person you speak of vs. a commissioned employee. Who do you think will give you better service for a very small premium? Before you answer go ask the people who had to deal with Short Sales or Foreclosures thru their lenders or call your local customer service person and then tell me how great the service was. Most people would agree working with someone who has "skin" in the game will be a ton more helpful than a customer service rep.
      Service? You don't need service from this transaction. As for a very small premium... at 1% a starter home around here will amount to $5k-$6k... that's not nothing. They are not adding $5-6k of value to the transaction, nor is their 'service' worth nearly that much.

      edit... also

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      In the end it probably would reduce fees or rates slightly. My best guess would be if you took a LO out of the equation rates would maybe drop .125 at most
      Excel: =CUMIPMT(0.03875/12,360,500000,1,360,0)-CUMIPMT(0.0375/12,360,500000,1,360,0) = $12,818,69

      Nearly $13k in extra interest on a $500k loan for the .125 bps change. Why am I paying someone for this 'service' instead of keeping $13k? Do you not consider that 'slight' drop in fees to be significant to the borrower?
      Last edited by jnm2.0t; 01-26-2012 at 03:44 PM.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
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    5. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 04:01 PM #305
      LOL 13k over 30 years on a 500k loan amount. What do you think the average loan amount in the country is? its no where near 500k. Our average is 150,000 thats $15.63 per month

      All primary mortgage interest is tax deductible so don't forget to factor the tax savings on those dollars as well. Same with points and fees from a purchase transaction. Ensure you put those in your #'s

      And yes you do need customer service on mortgages. Almost everyone walking through our door has many questions regarding their transaction. Its a big deal, generally the biggest investment for a lot of people in this country. Not asking enough questions on the consumer side is how we got in this mess to begin with. It did not start with the LO.

      Also in regards to compensation. the more people earn...the more people spend causing your investments to go up. So I am on the other side of the fence as you, I say people should always max their compensation when possible whether that may be on someone elses back. Money causes growth which our country needs. Then your pretty little house stops losing money and actually starts to become an investment again.

      Personally not sure who screwed you over but you have something on your end. Everything your saying makes no sense at all. Its proven by not replying to my statement in bold above. Obviously you have no come back for that.


      If people are too stupid to ask why they are being charged a fee that they don't understand its on them (this is just being a good consumer)

      IMO if people were overcharged they weren't very good consumers. In a free market, as in the wild, the weak individuals get eaten. Sounds like you are one of them.

    6. Member evosky's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 04:09 PM #306
      damn, and i thought i was getting a good deal on my mortgage at 4.5% in august, these >4% rates are killer
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      Quote Originally Posted by MrSavvy View Post
      I'll break it down for you simple minded people. VWvortex. The VW stands for Volkswagen. And when you create a forum, admins can create sections within the forum. This forum has a section for general car chit-chat. The car lounge. So you see, even though it's a VW forum, you can still discuss other topics.

    7. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 04:14 PM #307
      yep but 4.5% is still pretty good. There can be a lot of reasons why your rate was a touch higher than what I post. Condo/Mulit unit/Investment/Credit Scores can all factor to your rate.
      Last edited by ruetzal; 01-26-2012 at 04:16 PM.

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      01-26-2012 04:43 PM #308
      Quote Originally Posted by evosky View Post
      damn, and i thought i was getting a good deal on my mortgage at 4.5% in august, these >4% rates are killer
      and it looks as though theyll stay that way for years... but its looked that way since the start, which made some of the mad scramble to refi when they took a tumble seem somewhat amusing

    9. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 05:15 PM #309
      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      LOL 13k over 30 years on a 500k loan amount. What do you think the average loan amount in the country is? its no where near 500k. Our average is 150,000 thats $15.63 per month
      $15.63 * 360 is still $5600 and is 3.75% of the house value. If you are you're not concerned about that for your customers then that proves my point.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      All primary mortgage interest is tax deductible so don't forget to factor the tax savings on those dollars as well. Same with points and fees from a purchase transaction. Ensure you put those in your #'s
      Ah yes the old tax break justification, can't talk to a loan officer without them trying to sell their fees based on this.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      Also in regards to compensation. the more people earn...the more people spend causing your investments to go up. So I am on the other side of the fence as you, I say people should always max their compensation when possible whether that may be on someone elses back. Money causes growth which our country needs. Then your pretty little house stops losing money and actually starts to become an investment again.
      Oh for gods sake get off of it already. Loan officer compensation makes the world go round. Now I have really heard it all.

      You're also further proving my point as to what little regard loan officers have for their client, they are nothing more than a means to their own end of maximizing their compensation.

      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      Personally not sure who screwed you over but you have something on your end. Everything your saying makes no sense at all. Its proven by not replying to my statement in bold above. Obviously you have no come back for that.
      We opted out of buying a house in part because when we factored in the cost of just getting a mortgage the whole investment started to be unattractive. As for the comment I didn't think that really needed any 'come back', it's just the standard sales pitch salespeople give to sell themselves. Not having a loan officer doesn't mean all of a sudden mortgage lenders would have no customers, it would just change the channel. I bet the State Farm agent I see down the street said the same thing when Geico started offering insurance for less money direct to consumer. B to C salespeople are more often than not just an added expense that isn't really necessary.

      Now, you really do have some great input in this thread, I am not discounting that at all... it's just that people need to be aware and mindful of what is really going down and how their officers are really thinking... in their own best interest.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

    10. 01-26-2012 05:47 PM #310
      question for those in the know!

      Currently have a FHA loan on a house bought in 2008. Current Owed is $160XXX. Rate is 6%.

      I'd like to refi if I can get down below 5%, which seems likely. Credit is fairly strong (Mid 700s). Talked with a refi agent today at the bank I am currently with, and was advised that it probably wouldn't make enough of a difference because of the recent increase in MI monthly payments.
      I was looking at a streamline - but am open to any options out there.

      From my research, it looks like I the additional MI is about $30 a month. Current M&I is right around $1000 a month, and it seems like I could still save over a $100 a month w/a refi.

      Thoughts?

    11. Member 1inhiding's Avatar
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      01-26-2012 06:37 PM #311
      Closed on my 30 year fixed at 3.75%. We never thought we'd see lower when we first bought - a year ago! - saving ~300/month to pay off some student loan debt/car debt, and then accelerate our mortgage payments.

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      01-26-2012 09:39 PM #312
      Met today with mortgage company. Bought in 2005, we currently owe $170k and our townhouse is worth approx $125K. Interest rate is 6.375%. Both credit scores are perfect and just under 800.

      Don't qualify for refinancing about 100% since we have mortgage insurance.....

      We don't qualify for a 2nd house w/o rental income. They don't consider rental income on the application unless its documented for 1 year and shown on your tax return. We do quality but not enough for what we want to buy.

      Also if you have a rental property and are looking to buy another house, they require 6 months worth of mortgage payment $$$$ in the bank in case there are problems with the rental unit. That would be on top of any down payment required for a new house.

      They advised us to do one of several things:

      1. Move out, find a renter, and rent a place of our own for 1 year. Tough to do since we'd be losing approx $500 per month for what we can get renting it and what our monthly payment is including association fee.

      2. Try a short sale but we probably wouldn't qualify since we've never missed any payments and have no hardships to claim. Short sale would damage our credit the same as a foreclosure so wouldn't be worth it.

      3. Sell it and have to come up with approx $50k at closing to give the bank to pay off the loan and wash our hands of it. Worth $50k to save our credit????????

      4. Stop making payments, let it go into foreclosure, bank approx $1500 per month until we are kicked out in a year or so, and then rent for several years or find a contract for deed.

      Not sure where to go from here.....

    13. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-27-2012 09:24 AM #313
      Quote Originally Posted by turbowagen View Post
      question for those in the know!

      Currently have a FHA loan on a house bought in 2008. Current Owed is $160XXX. Rate is 6%.

      I'd like to refi if I can get down below 5%, which seems likely. Credit is fairly strong (Mid 700s). Talked with a refi agent today at the bank I am currently with, and was advised that it probably wouldn't make enough of a difference because of the recent increase in MI monthly payments.
      I was looking at a streamline - but am open to any options out there.

      From my research, it looks like I the additional MI is about $30 a month. Current M&I is right around $1000 a month, and it seems like I could still save over a $100 a month w/a refi.

      Thoughts?
      Your in WI right? if so pm me and we can run some #'s for you. you need someone to run actual #'s to compare. It appears your are rough guessing here. Keep in mind MI only stays on the loan for 5 years and under 80% LTV or whenever you drop below 80% but not within 5 years.

      Quote Originally Posted by Shawn O View Post
      Met today with mortgage company. Bought in 2005, we currently owe $170k and our townhouse is worth approx $125K. Interest rate is 6.375%. Both credit scores are perfect and just under 800.

      Don't qualify for refinancing about 100% since we have mortgage insurance.....

      We don't qualify for a 2nd house w/o rental income. They don't consider rental income on the application unless its documented for 1 year and shown on your tax return. We do quality but not enough for what we want to buy.

      Also if you have a rental property and are looking to buy another house, they require 6 months worth of mortgage payment $$$$ in the bank in case there are problems with the rental unit. That would be on top of any down payment required for a new house.

      They advised us to do one of several things:

      1. Move out, find a renter, and rent a place of our own for 1 year. Tough to do since we'd be losing approx $500 per month for what we can get renting it and what our monthly payment is including association fee.

      2. Try a short sale but we probably wouldn't qualify since we've never missed any payments and have no hardships to claim. Short sale would damage our credit the same as a foreclosure so wouldn't be worth it.

      3. Sell it and have to come up with approx $50k at closing to give the bank to pay off the loan and wash our hands of it. Worth $50k to save our credit????????

      4. Stop making payments, let it go into foreclosure, bank approx $1500 per month until we are kicked out in a year or so, and then rent for several years or find a contract for deed.

      Not sure where to go from here.....
      Well you can't think about buying another house until you take care of this one. With the New Gov't program you should be able to refi over 100% ltv even with MI. Not sure who your talking to but if they don't have access to the harp program your talking with the wrong LO. Call around and ask some lenders if they can lend into the harp program if they say yes go in and sit down with them and make them run #'s. This service is free! If you can get into the harp program it probably will benefit you. Then you can rent it out and hopefully have somewhat of a equal payments per rent. After that you can decide to move on. Let me know if this helped.

    14. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-27-2012 09:26 AM #314
      The harp program allows individuals to refi without an appraisal (value is based off the last refi) and your loan had to been sold to the agencies (fannie/Freddie). One last thing is that you had to have obtained the loan prior to '09 if these fit you then you can get into this beneficial program

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      01-27-2012 12:31 PM #315
      We purchased in 2005, was a Fannie loan.

      Even with "new" program aka HARP 2.0, no private mortgage insurance company will currently underwrite a mortgage for 125% LTV.

      So new the guidelines basically do nothing if you currently have mortgage insurance, are underwater, and simply want a lower interest rate.

      We have been told that by 3 separate and very reputable mortgage companies in Minneapolis.
      Last edited by Shawn O; 01-27-2012 at 12:33 PM.

    16. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-27-2012 12:35 PM #316
      hmm doesn't sound right, we lend in MN so let me talk to one of our guys and see if what you were told was true
      Last edited by ruetzal; 01-27-2012 at 12:41 PM.

    17. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      01-27-2012 12:40 PM #317
      Quote Originally Posted by Shawn O View Post
      We purchased in 2005, was a Fannie loan.

      Even with "new" program aka HARP 2.0, no private mortgage insurance company will currently underwrite a mortgage for 125% LTV.

      So new the guidelines basically do nothing if you currently have mortgage insurance, are underwater, and simply want a lower interest rate.

      We have been told that by 3 separate and very reputable mortgage companies in Minneapolis.
      I just spoke to our LO manager and what you were told was untrue. Currently MI companies do not like these loans but the Harp 2.0 is still not out yet and whereas it can change any day now the deadline is March 17th. By then the MI companies will be on board. This program won't have an appraisal so your value will be based on the appraisal at time of purchase thus being probably slightly under 100%.

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      01-27-2012 12:45 PM #318
      Yes, we were told MAYBE they will do it on or after March 1st but nothing is forcing them to since its a free market. Hopefully we can do something after March 1st....

      If we can get a refinance and get our monthly payment down $200-300 a month we can rent and at least break even.

      We'll then move out (sad) and rent a place of our own for a year and qualify with the rental income then....and hopefully sell this damn house someday.

      We were told last night that with 3% annual increases in prices it will be at least 10 years before we get our value back. And that optimistic since prices haven't started rising yet....
      Last edited by Shawn O; 01-27-2012 at 01:40 PM.

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      01-27-2012 12:52 PM #319
      sent you a pm

      and yeh housing prices are a long road forward but it definately appears the markets have reached a floor. this can vary by parts of the country but overall IMO we are at or near the bottom. I think next year we will see a pick up in purchasing and values will slowly come back from there. however housing prices can come back up faster than you think, its similar to the markets. Dow & S&P. If you look back in '08 the dow was at 7900/8000 and today its at 12/13k. Generally prices fall to far and then you get a decent swing upward and then start a smoother recovery. We will see this in a few years. As investors come back in buying/repairing/selling it will come back pretty good. I would say most of us will recoup a majority of the losses in the next 5-7 years, ofcourse by then your rent will probably be cash flowing and you will want to keep the house.

      Whatever course you take never let banks destroy your credit. Make renting for under the mortgage work as long as possible. If you ge thru the tough times it will make the good times that much better

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      02-06-2012 09:47 AM #320
      Question for you ruetzal. I found a foreclosure and settled on a contract with the bank. I'm getting the house for $210k and they are giving me $10k toward closing. I'm getting a conventional loan through my local credit union and putting 5% down. They just threw me a curveball, telling me that I can only get 3% in closing help from the seller. So, I can only use $6,300 of the $10k for closing costs. The loan officer at the credit union is telling me that this is a federal law. If I put 5% or less down, I am only allowed 3% in closing costs. If I put more than 5% down, I am allowed 6% in closing costs. Is this really a federal law? It sounds ridiculous to me and I don't understand why they won't let me use the whole $10k that the seller is offering me.
      Quote Originally Posted by BeeAlk View Post
      600whp and you never launched.

      That's like marrying a porn star and never putting it in her butt.

    21. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      02-06-2012 12:51 PM #321
      thats correct when putting 5% down you are only allowed 3% to be credited by the seller for Fees and Prepaid expenses. Can't go towards down payment or a principal reduction.

      what you need to do is go back to the seller and have them lower the purchase price by 2% then use the 3% credits

      I think if your LTV is lower than 90% then you can get up to 6% from seller.

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      02-06-2012 01:59 PM #322
      ruetzal

      I am currently in the process of looking for my first house. I am in no rush and if I see something I like I will put an offer in, but the longer I wait the more money I can save.

      My question is is it better to get a FHA loan at roughly 4% APR and only put 5% down on the house or would it be better to take a regular loan and put around 35% down on the house (maybe even more)? I have a huge chunk of change in the bank that was planned to be used for a down payment, but I do not know if that is a good idea or not.

      I would keep at least $5-10k in cash (if i do put a huge down payment) when I eventually do get a house because I know **** happens and I am sure the house will require maintenance.

    23. Member SilverStoned1.8T's Avatar
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      02-06-2012 03:20 PM #323
      Quote Originally Posted by ruetzal View Post
      thats correct when putting 5% down you are only allowed 3% to be credited by the seller for Fees and Prepaid expenses. Can't go towards down payment or a principal reduction.

      what you need to do is go back to the seller and have them lower the purchase price by 2% then use the 3% credits

      I think if your LTV is lower than 90% then you can get up to 6% from seller.
      Do you have any idea why this is the case? It just sounds like a retarded law to me.
      Quote Originally Posted by BeeAlk View Post
      600whp and you never launched.

      That's like marrying a porn star and never putting it in her butt.

    24. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      02-06-2012 04:50 PM #324
      Quote Originally Posted by 00boraslow View Post
      ruetzal

      I am currently in the process of looking for my first house. I am in no rush and if I see something I like I will put an offer in, but the longer I wait the more money I can save.

      My question is is it better to get a FHA loan at roughly 4% APR and only put 5% down on the house or would it be better to take a regular loan and put around 35% down on the house (maybe even more)? I have a huge chunk of change in the bank that was planned to be used for a down payment, but I do not know if that is a good idea or not.

      I would keep at least $5-10k in cash (if i do put a huge down payment) when I eventually do get a house because I know **** happens and I am sure the house will require maintenance.
      Well FHA is requiring a pretty big MI premium these days so you would have to look at your options for Both a Conventional and a FHA mortgage if you are planning on going over 80% LTV. they will both have MI coverage but you have to compare how much each will cost you. Generally going over 80% LTV was better to go FHA since the MI premiums were smaller but these days I don't know which is more advantageous to a borrower. You would have to compare them both with your LO. However if you are under 80% go conventional, no reason to go FHA under 80% LTV.

      When comparing between FHA/Conventional try to weigh in the cost to hold your cash vs. putting the money down. Its always more advantageous to hold cash vs giving it to someone else. Especially when the rate on mortgages is 4% and you could probably pick up over 5% in the market. So the spread is in your favor to hold your cash, depending on the MI monthly and upfront premium you have to spend. If the premium is over 200 per month I would say put it down on your house vs. holding it. You have to see how much per month you could save/earn in the market. I am guessing here thats its probably more beneficial putting it down on your home since MI premiums have spiked over the years. Keep in mind though MI doesn't last forever, it goes away after you fall under 80%

      Quote Originally Posted by SilverStoned1.8T View Post
      Do you have any idea why this is the case? It just sounds like a retarded law to me.
      The industry wants you to have money in the transaction. The borrower is overcrediting fees to you that means the overage would be part of your down payment. Fannie did a analysis showing that when people have at a minimum 2% into a transaction they are substantially more favored to make payments on their home and not default. Its the # crunchers in the background (essentially insurance actuaries) that read data and analyze the sh** out of it to see what type of people are more likely to make life of loan payments on their home and not default. The reason for this rule was because of this.

    25. Member ruetzal's Avatar
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      02-06-2012 05:01 PM #325
      3.875 % on a 30 year, 3.125% on a 15 year and 3.0% on a 10 year

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