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    Thread: In Detail: Audi A6 Avant

    1. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      05-18-2011 06:06 PM #1


      Audi is launching the next generation of the A6 Avant, the most successful business-class station wagon in Europe. The new model presents the brand’s full array of progressive technological expertise. Its lightweight body, large portions of which are made of aluminum, sets new standards, as does the wide selection of assistance and multimedia systems. The keyword for the latter is Audi connect. The new Audi A6 Avant is available with a choice of six engines: two gasoline engines and four diesel units. Fuel consumption has been reduced by as much as 18 percent compared with the previous model. Topping the engine lineup is the new 3.0 TDI with twin-turbo technology and 230 kW (313 hp). Audi also offers numerous high-end options for the drivetrain and the chassis. The luggage compartment has a capacity of up to 1,680 liters (59.33 cu ft) and offers a number of elegant features, including a power rear hatch that opens in response to a sensor signal.

      Full Story

    2. Member rexxmann's Avatar
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      05-19-2011 11:52 PM #2
      I can't believe that 99 out of 100 americans would rather drive an SUV than this.

      to Audi. They are on a real roll with bringing some stunning looking cars to market.

    3. 05-20-2011 09:47 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by rexxmann View Post
      I can't believe that 99 out of 100 americans would rather drive an SUV than this.

      to Audi. They are on a real roll with bringing some stunning looking cars to market.
      Audi has consistently and regularly failed to explain what makes a wagon better than an SUV to the american people. Whereas Caddilac, Acura, Mercedes, and Volkswagen push their respective wagon offerings as sporting alternatives to SUV's, Audi wagons are relegated to collect dust in the back corner of showrooms as oddities to be walked by, but ultimately ignored.

      The CTS wagon is a heraled as a barnstormer with cargospace, The E-class wagon actually comes in an AMG variant for those in a huslte, the Acura pitches the TSX wagon as a sporting alternative to the RDX, and the Jetta wagon is actually seen in advertisements racing around cones and then loading the cones up in the hatch (very clever).

      The Audi wagons? they're, um... shorter than the Q-series SUV's, I guess. Or something.

    4. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      05-23-2011 10:17 AM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by FractureCritical View Post
      Audi has consistently and regularly failed to explain what makes a wagon better than an SUV to the american people. Whereas Caddilac, Acura, Mercedes, and Volkswagen push their respective wagon offerings as sporting alternatives to SUV's, Audi wagons are relegated to collect dust in the back corner of showrooms as oddities to be walked by, but ultimately ignored.

      The CTS wagon is a heraled as a barnstormer with cargospace, The E-class wagon actually comes in an AMG variant for those in a huslte, the Acura pitches the TSX wagon as a sporting alternative to the RDX, and the Jetta wagon is actually seen in advertisements racing around cones and then loading the cones up in the hatch (very clever).

      The Audi wagons? they're, um... shorter than the Q-series SUV's, I guess. Or something.
      The problem is sales, not perception. All of the cars you mention are selling dismally. Audi's staff love their wagons but they're trying to smartly follow trends in the USA. The A7 will outsell the A6 Avant by a serious margin (as compared to the outgoing Avant) so if they have limited budget they're putting that budget behind cars that sell.

    5. 05-23-2011 01:25 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by George@Fourtitude View Post
      The problem is sales, not perception. All of the cars you mention are selling dismally. Audi's staff love their wagons but they're trying to smartly follow trends in the USA. The A7 will outsell the A6 Avant by a serious margin (as compared to the outgoing Avant) so if they have limited budget they're putting that budget behind cars that sell.
      Then they should smartly follow the trend of BMW owners shunning the 5 series GT hatch thing and demanding the return of the wagon (many want it back with a stick, go fig). Seems BMW customers are abandoning thebrand and going M-B for the wagons they want. BMW publicly admitting that the wagon was a better seller than the GT? Must be a real screw-up for the Bavarians to actually admit failure.

      This pretty much validates EVERYTHING I've been trying to put across about how the most valuable customers are the brand cheerleaders. They brand cheerleaders preach brand engineering theory. Violate the theory with a bold-faced pandering POS like the 5 GT, and people leave. and then people see people leave, and then they leave, too.

      linky:
      http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/23/b...-series-wagon/

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      05-23-2011 04:07 PM #6
      ^As you said, you can't really compare a ''POS'' 5GT to a stunning A7...

    7. 05-23-2011 09:49 PM #7
      Look, the point I'm trying to make is that Audi/BMW/Acura/Honda have all tried to make and market these.. things.. as alternatives to wagons. It's silly. Does Audi pull off the best crack it? I think so, but it still misses the bullseye.

      Audi has some stellar wagon offerings that they THINK can't sell and therefore DON'T BOTHER to market or equip properly. Right now, there's over 100 comments bashing that BMW thing and lamenting the loss of wagons. I really don't see much of anyone missing the 5 GT thing.

      Does anyone even know about Audi wagons? AoA doesn't advertise them. They're an afterthought in the US market. Why? VW and Subaru clean-up every financial quarter with wagons. It's all about building a brand behind them, which apparently is doable.

      Audi has to stop trying to shill some mix-match thing and sell a wagon for what it is and tell people why it's better.

      Want to sell a an Audi Wagon here's how:

      bring them over with the DSG and the angry 3.0L TDI, position it as a sport alternate to the Q series and sell it for what it is: asphaltic supremacy. The ability to haul arse, 3 kids, 2 kayaks, a labrador and camping gear while getting great fuel economy is an easy sell when you make it clear. This is not new ground, VW sells buckets of Jetta Sportwagons this way.

      The marketing campaign is even easy. Want every dad between 35 and 50 to want an A6 Avant? All you need is a Halloween time campaign with a white Avant with two kids standing in front of it dressed as a Wookie and Luke Skywalker. Big letters across the bottom of the ad: " It'll do the Kessel Run in less than 12 Parsecs"

      Trust me, it'll sell.

    8. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      05-24-2011 10:01 AM #8
      I think you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare the A7 to the 5 GT. They're different cars. The 5 GT's emphasis is utility, like a crossover car. The A7 is seriously lower, and more like a Panamera.

      I'm not anti-Avant, I would actually prefer the A4 or A6 Avant personally. Still, I think it's premature to say anyone's lighting the world on fire with wagons. I'd still like to see them remain but in reality they don't sell and thus why the Passat wagon is going away too.

      Clever ad idea on Star Wars but given VW just did a Star Wars commercial I doubt they'd do it.

    9. 05-24-2011 02:56 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by George@Fourtitude View Post
      I think you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare the A7 to the 5 GT. They're different cars. The 5 GT's emphasis is utility, like a crossover car. The A7 is seriously lower, and more like a Panamera.

      I'm not anti-Avant, I would actually prefer the A4 or A6 Avant personally. Still, I think it's premature to say anyone's lighting the world on fire with wagons. I'd still like to see them remain but in reality they don't sell and thus why the Passat wagon is going away too.

      Clever ad idea on Star Wars but given VW just did a Star Wars commercial I doubt they'd do it.
      I do like the A7, but I look at it, I sit in it, and I scratch my head: why do I need this? It's an A6 with a little more romm in the back and a lot less visibility. Whatever. If people want it, and Audi sells it, more power to them.

      The passat wagon went away for a lot of reasons that included not marketing it EVER, not offering it with ANY options in the last two of it's model years, and not updating it's styling to match the cc. Apparently, VW also was happy with upsizing the Jetta wagon and offering that with the TDI (which they also can't keep on the lots) and killing the Passat as redundant. I get that.


      and fwiw, there can never be enough star wars allusions in the world. Taking the A6 avant and constructing a marketing campaign around the idea of comparing it to the Millenium Falcon is sales gold. Put a oil sipping but torque dripping diesel in it to get it past the bill paying tree hugging wife in the family, and the rest will take care of itself.

      And I don't think you're anti-avant. I think you are heavily pro Audi, and that's commendable. But I do think that you get caught up in what the AoA people tell you and take that too much at face value. The whole point of a foum is to be heard and you have just as much right to tell them they are wrong and the members of your forum are here to advise and back you on that front.

      BMW listens heavily to the owner community and there have been times when it was all but pitchforks and torches over some of the moves BMW made. Right now, there's a huge "I told you so" going on right now, and BMW will be better for that lesson in the long run. Audi needs to keep up with that same level of feedback support if they ever intend to catch up. Your job as moderator is tougher since, if you want the brand to survive, you have to be both the loudest cheerleader with the good ideas and the first one with a lighter on hand for the torches for the bad ideas.

    10. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      05-25-2011 09:55 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by FractureCritical View Post
      I do like the A7, but I look at it, I sit in it, and I scratch my head: why do I need this? It's an A6 with a little more romm in the back and a lot less visibility. Whatever. If people want it, and Audi sells it, more power to them.
      The difference I see is more perceptual. I can drive an Avant and rarely if ever get noticed by anyone. I've driven the A7 and I received constant comments from owners of competitive vehicles. They noticed it and liked it. If Audi wishes to grow, then I think it's the right move even though I'd still rather personally own an A6 Avant. With added volume comes more specialty models such as Avants or cars with a manual transmission.

      And I don't think you're anti-avant. I think you are heavily pro Audi, and that's commendable. But I do think that you get caught up in what the AoA people tell you and take that too much at face value. The whole point of a foum is to be heard and you have just as much right to tell them they are wrong and the members of your forum are here to advise and back you on that front.
      I could see why you think this given how much we work with Audi but I'd argue that this isn't quite correct in its perception of Fourtitude's mission or myself specifically. One advantage we have from being well embedded with Audi is that I really get a good understanding of the challenges they face. The last time I was down there I counted two A6 3.0T Avant S-lines in the parking lot without even searching. Many of them, like you and like me, are enthusiasts and get the draw of such a car. Still, this is still a job for them and their job success and the success is measured by brand growth with the resources they have. As stated above, with sales growth comes more choices so they pick their battles. I can live without the A6 Avant when I'm offered models like the A7, TT RS and the like.

      You mention BMW but that's again an apples and oranges comparison. BMW sells double the volume Audi does in the USA and thusly can spread it out amongst more specialty models. Even still, they don't have an R8 equivalent and don't currently have an Avant either.

      Last, here's a nugget for you. The RS 4 Avant is still being considered for the USA. That's not a confirmation (yet), but it being on the table speaks volumes as to their understanding of their enthusiast owners and to their own enthusiasm.

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      06-03-2011 04:19 AM #11
      A RS4 Avant will make me forget about the A6 Avant in a hurry...

    12. 08-01-2011 11:57 AM #12
      i say BUCK the trend and let customer that really want the avant to special order the thing, it's killing me that I need a variant that's bigger than the A4 and cant get this gorgeous car now because they'd rather sell more Q's ugh

      I'd be happy if they would just let people that want it to order it.

    13. Administrator George@Fourtitude's Avatar
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      08-02-2011 08:53 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by foofighter28 View Post
      i say BUCK the trend and let customer that really want the avant to special order the thing, it's killing me that I need a variant that's bigger than the A4 and cant get this gorgeous car now because they'd rather sell more Q's ugh

      I'd be happy if they would just let people that want it to order it.
      Have you looked at the A7? You may be pleasantly surprised.

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      08-03-2011 02:07 PM #14
      Please don't kill off the Avant in the US. I'd also rather drive a car than a Q.

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      08-15-2011 02:32 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by rexxmann View Post
      I can't believe that 99 out of 100 americans would rather drive an SUV than this.

      to Audi. They are on a real roll with bringing some stunning looking cars to market.
      I currently own a C5 A6 Avant. It has been a pleasure to own and drive. It has a great balance of style, performance and utility.

      I did not care for the C6 Avant. Specifically, the interior and the front grill. I had followed the development of the C7 Avant and I was looking forward to this as the logical replacement for my C5. I have been extremely disappointed when Audi announced that there were "no plans" to bring the C7 Avant to North America.

      From Audi's perspective, the "logical" replacement for the C5 Avant is a Q7. I was shocked and dismayed when this vehicle was introduced into the North American market. It is so big and ungainly, I am still amazed that the Q7 is an Audi!

      However, other US consumers appears to have a different opinion. The Q7 sells fairly well in the US. I see a lot more Q7s that I see C6 Avants. Car and Driver recently compared the Q7 to 4 other upscale SUVs and the 2011 Q7 3.0T came in first. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...mparison_tests

      I still really want a C7 Avant with a 3.0T. I guess that I am in the minority in the US. I think the C7 Avant is a beautiful design and I would purchase one if it was sold in the US. However, the prospects for this car to be sold in the US appears to be Between "slim and none".

      There has been a "passionate" discussion about A6 Avants in the thread "DE NYSSCHEN: Questions and Comments for Johan de Nysschen, President, Audi of America" at Fourtitude http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthr...udi-of-America

      While I sincerely appreciate Mr. de Nysschen's real-time exchange with Audi enthusiasts at Fourtitude, it was disheartening to hear him confirm that there are no plans for the C7 Avant in NA.

      Since Audi no longer sells cars that I am interested, then I have no option but to look elsewhere for a European-designed sports-wagon.
      I have been an Audi owner and brand advocate since 1987. It is disappointing to be abandoned by Audi.
      Last edited by eTh1nk; 08-15-2011 at 02:35 PM.

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      08-15-2011 02:48 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by FractureCritical View Post
      Look, the point I'm trying to make is that Audi/BMW/Acura/Honda have all tried to make and market these.. things.. as alternatives to wagons. It's silly. Does Audi pull off the best crack it? I think so, but it still misses the bullseye.

      Audi has some stellar wagon offerings that they THINK can't sell and therefore DON'T BOTHER to market or equip properly. Right now, there's over 100 comments bashing that BMW thing and lamenting the loss of wagons. I really don't see much of anyone missing the 5 GT thing.

      Does anyone even know about Audi wagons? AoA doesn't advertise them. They're an afterthought in the US market. Why? VW and Subaru clean-up every financial quarter with wagons. It's all about building a brand behind them, which apparently is doable.

      Audi has to stop trying to shill some mix-match thing and sell a wagon for what it is and tell people why it's better.

      Want to sell a an Audi Wagon here's how:

      bring them over with the DSG and the angry 3.0L TDI, position it as a sport alternate to the Q series and sell it for what it is: asphaltic supremacy. The ability to haul arse, 3 kids, 2 kayaks, a labrador and camping gear while getting great fuel economy is an easy sell when you make it clear. This is not new ground, VW sells buckets of Jetta Sportwagons this way.

      The marketing campaign is even easy. Want every dad between 35 and 50 to want an A6 Avant? All you need is a Halloween time campaign with a white Avant with two kids standing in front of it dressed as a Wookie and Luke Skywalker. Big letters across the bottom of the ad: " It'll do the Kessel Run in less than 12 Parsecs"

      Trust me, it'll sell.
      Why not position "sport-wagons" as the performance+utility+ style ALTERNATIVE to the multitude of SUV/CUV vehicles?

      An example of brilliant product placement: the C5 RS6 Avant in Layer Cake:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uy9WgQ7Thc

      Great Movie! Great Car!

      Common Audi! "Lead, Never Follow"
      Last edited by eTh1nk; 08-15-2011 at 02:53 PM.

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      08-15-2011 02:54 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by eTh1nk View Post
      Why not position "sport-wagons" as the performance+utility+ style ALTERNATIVE to the multitude of SUV/CUV vehicles?

      An example of brilliant product placement: the C5 RS6 Avant in Layer Cake:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uy9WgQ7Thc

      Great Movie! Great Car!

      Common Audi! "Lead, Never Follow"
      http://www.lightandmotion.tv/2010/09...ie-layer-cake/

    18. 08-23-2011 12:25 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by George@Fourtitude View Post
      Have you looked at the A7? You may be pleasantly surprised.
      George, there's a few driving around my area and to be honest it just doesnt do it for me from some perspective. And as cool as it is, that pop-up rear wing on a sedan doesnt look right when it's deployed.

      I want the A6 avant, Mercedes now has the monopoly on luxury wagon market. I mean if they just made it a custom order thing it would be great, hell euro delivery? ANYTHING???

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      08-23-2011 09:05 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by foofighter28 View Post
      George, there's a few driving around my area and to be honest it just doesnt do it for me from some perspective. And as cool as it is, that pop-up rear wing on a sedan doesnt look right when it's deployed.

      I want the A6 avant, Mercedes now has the monopoly on luxury wagon market. I mean if they just made it a custom order thing it would be great, hell euro delivery? ANYTHING???
      There are other issues such as complexity of the line (a dealer-level issue), cost of putting replacement parts in the system, etc. That said, I've asked them before about that sort of thing and I think the problem is still hitting a targeted volume. I wonder if they couldn't do a group buy.

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      08-25-2011 08:31 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by George@Fourtitude View Post
      There are other issues such as complexity of the line (a dealer-level issue), cost of putting replacement parts in the system, etc. That said, I've asked them before about that sort of thing and I think the problem is still hitting a targeted volume. I wonder if they couldn't do a group buy.
      George:

      What would the next step be in exploring a "group buy" for the C7 A6 Avant?
      How can this idea be communicated to AoA?

    21. 09-30-2011 09:58 PM #21
      It's terrible that Audi doesn't bring in the A6 Avant with the 300 HP twin turbo diesel to the US.
      Who wouldn't want a monster torque, ultra responsive, 30 +++mpg hwy vehicle with only about 10 cubic feet less rear storage than the premium mid-size SUVs?
      I want one.

      FYI, a dealer here in MN told me the gasser A6 can be ordered but I think my salesman was full of she#t. He also said the A7 had a supercharger AND a turbocharger.... He also said he'd worked there a year----slow learner.
      Bob in MN

    22. 10-31-2011 03:49 PM #22
      If homologation is an issue for low demand vehicles like the Avant (which really should be a high demand vehicle if it ever got 1/10th the marketing budget of the Q series or that A7 thing), then could this be a possible recourse?

      http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/29/b...urers-a-break/

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      11-01-2011 08:21 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by FractureCritical View Post
      If homologation is an issue for low demand vehicles like the Avant (which really should be a high demand vehicle if it ever got 1/10th the marketing budget of the Q series or that A7 thing), then could this be a possible recourse?

      http://www.autoblog.com/2011/10/29/b...urers-a-break/
      My guess is no on the Avant. This is for specialty car manufacturers. Think Spyker, Gumpert, Artega, KTM, Donkervoort... all manufacturers of cars that use an Audi engine as a basis. I wouldn't get overly hopeful about these either though... at least not yet, since it doesn't say anything about crash testing.

      The A6 is more complicated. First, Audi is part of the Volkswagen Group, one of the biggest car manufacturers in the world. Second, this is a matter of cost. The A6 is prohibitively expensive as was the last one. That Audi can build the Q7 and sell it cheaper than the equivalent A6 Avant is of considerable importance in this equation. Most American consumers perceive the Q7 as "more car" and the sales reflect this.

    24. 12-04-2011 10:48 PM #24
      This is how I would set mine if I had one. Plus you cant do that with a SUV.





      (These are NOT REAL photos of the car, The photos are grom Gran Turismo 5.And yes I do know how to take photo for REAL, So dont troll about it please.) And if you want, tell me what you think but dont be to harsh. Thanks.

    25. 12-10-2011 07:10 PM #25
      Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe CAFE standards have an impact in whether Audi would import a wagon (a car) as opposed to an SUV like the Q5 and Q7. SUV's are subject to different standards. Volvo won't sell wagons like the V70 in the US anymore, only jacked-up "wagons" that qualify as SUV's, like the XC70.

      I've had a BMW 5 series wagon in the past and loved it. I'd buy an A6 Avant in a heartbeat. The A4 Avant is too small, the A7 seats 4.

      Please, why can't I just order what I want! What is want includes a manual transmission by the way.

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      12-11-2011 09:11 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by PorscheFan997 View Post
      This is how I would set mine if I had one. Plus you cant do that with a SUV.





      (These are NOT REAL photos of the car, The photos are grom Gran Turismo 5.And yes I do know how to take photo for REAL, So dont troll about it please.) And if you want, tell me what you think but dont be to harsh. Thanks.
      Looks cool. For a second I thought it had modern Fuchs reps like the 911 Sport Classic... sort of a nod to the RS 2.

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      12-11-2011 09:12 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Hoosierdub View Post
      Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe CAFE standards have an impact in whether Audi would import a wagon (a car) as opposed to an SUV like the Q5 and Q7. SUV's are subject to different standards. Volvo won't sell wagons like the V70 in the US anymore, only jacked-up "wagons" that qualify as SUV's, like the XC70.

      I've had a BMW 5 series wagon in the past and loved it. I'd buy an A6 Avant in a heartbeat. The A4 Avant is too small, the A7 seats 4.

      Please, why can't I just order what I want! What is want includes a manual transmission by the way.
      My understanding is that CAFE works on averages so Avants selling in low numbers as they do in the USA don't really help the averages.

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      12-13-2011 02:53 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Hoosierdub View Post
      Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe CAFE standards have an impact in whether Audi would import a wagon (a car) as opposed to an SUV like the Q5 and Q7. SUV's are subject to different standards. Volvo won't sell wagons like the V70 in the US anymore, only jacked-up "wagons" that qualify as SUV's, like the XC70.

      I've had a BMW 5 series wagon in the past and loved it. I'd buy an A6 Avant in a heartbeat. The A4 Avant is too small, the A7 seats 4.

      Please, why can't I just order what I want! What is want includes a manual transmission by the way.
      I agree, I would like a wagon with manual transmission. I can't stand that you can't get a TDI with a stick in North America.

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