Oil Consumption - 09 Routan 3.8L 30K miles

[redzone98]

The Routan just hit 30K miles, so i did my own 30K mile service. Mostly Because I purchased The Routan From Garnet VW, (amazing Dealer) and just dont feel like making the 210 mile round trip for an Oil Change / Tire Rotation.

Doing the Oil change in the Routan was Simple, and with no issues what so ever untill i filled my 5 Qt jug with used oil. It managed to only fill to Under the 3Qt mark! I am very concerned because this was a high grade oil (VW Dealer uses Castroil Syn Blend) and it is roughly 600 Miles under the Interval.

This might be a tough question here to ask, being that the huge majority of Rotuan owners will be taking their Vans in to have Oil Changes done, BUT, has anyone here noticed Issues with Oil Consumption on the 3.8L ?

[taxman100]

I cannot speak for the Routan or the 3.8 liter motor, but most of the time when you do your own oil changes, the amount of oil that comes out seems lower than what it should. Abviously there is oil still hiding the various knooks and crannies of the engine, plus clinging to every surface in the engine. Also, most driveways are on a slight incline for drainage, so there could be oil in the pan.

I'd be worried if, when you check the oil when refueling, if there is evidence of oil disappearing. My Toyota has 156,000 miles, and it is starting to have oil disappear between changes, where-as it didn't do that before. I'd check the oil level afer running the engine a minute or two and shutting it off. Fill it to the line, and then check at every refueling to see if it is disappearing.

One other thing - the only service that is supposed to be required at dealer of purchase is the 90 day check-up. Any of the others can be done at any Volkswagen dealership.

[redzone98]

One other thing - the only service that is supposed to be required at dealer of purchase is the 90 day check-up. Any of the others can be done at any Volkswagen dealership.

oh yea, i tried going to my local VW dealer on my 1st service, not only did they say i need to pay for it, but when they rotated my tires, they scratched all 5 lug holes of every wheel.

[58kafer]

oh yea, i tried going to my local VW dealer on my 1st service, not only did they say i need to pay for it, but when they rotated my tires, they scratched all 5 lug holes of every wheel.

I think you should have called VWOA on that deal, we have bought a few VW from other dealers and had them serviced right at our back yard dealer. They always asked why we never bought from them, and told them they never wanted to play ball for a cash deal. But they never had a problem servicing the vehicle, just remember the dealer is getting paid thru VWOA for the "free" services.

As far as the wheels---that SUCKS! They probably ran them in with the impact gun and didn't bother torquing to the right ft./lbs. either, just lovely. My wife always tells me not to wash the van before service cause they do it for free. Yep free, with a gritty sponge or brush that dropped on the floor by a kid making 9 bucks an hour--NO THANKS!

From what I have read and heard in the past the PCV may be the culprit. Check the 30K check up, does it call out for a PCV? We ate a few of them on our S-10 Blazer, EGR's too. Here are a few threads.


http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/1...l-consumption/
http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-ca...-question.html
http://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-ca...appearing.html


Trip to the dealer may be in your future, good luck! Don't give in your still should be under warranty!

[wunderdub]

I think you should have called VWOA on that deal, we have bought a few VW from other dealers and had them serviced right at our back yard dealer. They always asked why we never bought from them, and told them they never wanted to play ball for a cash deal. But they never had a problem servicing the vehicle, just remember the dealer is getting paid thru VWOA for the "free" services.

As far as the wheels---that SUCKS! They probably ran them in with the impact gun and didn't bother torquing to the right ft./lbs. either, just lovely. My wife always tells me not to wash the van before service cause they do it for free. Yep free, with a gritty sponge or brush that dropped on the floor by a kid making 9 bucks an hour--NO THANKS!

From what I have read and heard in the past the PCV may be the culprit. Check the 30K check up, does it call out for a PCV? We ate a few of them on our S-10 Blazer, EGR's too. Here are a few threads.

and with all that being said, do you know that 5qts was put in there for sure? not owning a routan yet, i'm assuming oil capacity is a little over 5.5qts seeing as my R32 takes about that much.

also, how many miles were on that previous oil? i know its synthetic but i hate letting my synthetic go past 5k. maybe someone was driving a tad bit harder burnt some of that missing oil off?

i also like to do oil changes on ramps, that way the drain plug is at the lowest point possible and after i pull out the plug i go inside and let that drain for a while. i'm sure youre not new to this whole deal so i dont mean to insult your intelligence if i have. feel free to insult me back if i've done so

[VWroutanvanman]

If the dealer is using an air wrench to tighten the lug nuts, then they probably didn't torque the lugs to the proper spec. Overtightened lug nuts can cause rotor warpage, and we all know that has been a big problem on the C-D-R trio. Check with the dealer for the proper torque spec and have someone re-do the lug nuts. Too bad about the wheels being scratched, same thing happened to my wheels after the first free oil change and tire rotation, although only to a few lug holes. Remember, the squeeky wheel gets the grease, and although they probably won't replace the wheels, maybe they can offer a free service or cash back.

PS....Doing oil changes different than the schedule VW supplies is just a waste of money. Unless you are towing or drive in very dusty conditions, changing the oil sooner doesn't need to be done.

[redzone98]

As far as the wheels---that SUCKS! They probably ran them in with the impact gun and didn't bother torquing to the right ft./lbs. either, just lovely.

From what I have read and heard in the past the PCV may be the culprit. Check the 30K check up, does it call out for a PCV? We ate a few of them on our S-10 Blazer, EGR's too. Here are a few threads.

oh yea they ran them in with a impact wrench, because i always TQ the wheels after 500 miles of rotation, and i needed to use a breaker bar to get the lugs loose! I will check the PCV.

and with all that being said, do you know that 5qts was put in there for sure?

Garnet VW is a top Quality shop, so i would assume that is was done correct.

PS....Doing oil changes different than the schedule VW supplies is just a waste of money. Unless you are towing or drive in very dusty conditions, changing the oil sooner doesn't need to be done.

I change my oil according to the Spec. I went early this time because of the 3 day weekend, i dont have the wife and kids around asking 'are you done yet?'

[linus96]

I still follow the advice given to me 40yrs ago by a fleet taxi mechanic, he said change the oil and filter every 3000 miles and the body will wear out before the engine. I`ve have found this advice to be rock solid, and I still follow this schedule to this day.

[VWroutanvanman]

Engine design is much better now than 40 years ago. The seal of the combustion chamber is better so there is not as much blow-by past the rings (and fuel injection is much more efficient than a carburetor). The fuel doesn't contaminate the oil as much as in the past, and this was the reason oil had to changed around 3000 miles. Therefore the oil safely lasts much longer now, past 6000 miles. And unleaded gas has extended oil life also. The marketing departments of oil change people sure are happy that there are still people that keep to the 3000 mile schedule. I was one of those people, until I worked for an Oldsmobile engineer and racer that explained it to me. One thing he did leave with me is that the absolute worst thing you can do to an engine is to start the car, then shut it off before it warms up, because the rings are not sealing well when cold, and the fuel that escapes past the rings washes the oil off of the cylinder walls. Then you get scratched cylinders, and engine life is reduced. Do this over and over, and the engine will definitely wear out before its time. IMHO.

PS...Linus96......Didn't mean to knock your practice. If it ain't broke........

15,000 miles and no oil consumption issues on my '10 Routan w/3.8L

Redzone....I'm going to assume that you changed the filter also. What was the stick reading after you put in new oil?

[redzone98]

Redzone....I'm going to assume that you changed the filter also. What was the stick reading after you put in new oil?

umm, after i filled the engine with oil... the stick read to the top of 'safe'

[rhperez]

We have been dealing with this problem for months...we are burning through 2 3/4 quarts every 3,000 miles...we did a oil consumption test for 1000 miles and it was 1 1/3 quart down...they did a VW ticket and were told to replace a stuck open valve...well 3,000 miles later we are now getting new cylinder heads and valves...we now have 38,000 miles on the van...but this all started in the 24,000 range...i would like to know how many other people are having consumption problems...I love my car...LOVE IT!!! but I need it fixed...and i am without my car for the 6th time since i got it...(had air conditioning problems with it after i bought it)

[redzone98]

We have been dealing with this problem for months...we are burning through 2 3/4 quarts every 3,000 miles...we did a oil consumption test for 1000 miles and it was 1 1/3 quart down...they did a VW ticket and were told to replace a stuck open valve...well 3,000 miles later we are now getting new cylinder heads and valves...we now have 38,000 miles on the van...but this all started in the 24,000 range...i would like to know how many other people are having consumption problems...I love my car...LOVE IT!!! but I need it fixed...and i am without my car for the 6th time since i got it...(had air conditioning problems with it after i bought it)

Sounds like complete BS that they are replacing intake valves for Oil consumption? Are the Valve Stem Seals leaking?

I too LOVE this van, it is a workhorse, does everything i need it to. But burning oil is something i will NOT stand for. I moved to a quality full synthetic and bumped the oil to a 10w30. to see if this helps. If NOT i believe its a trip to the Dealer for a new car (not the VW dealer either)

[SoCalTDI]

I have an 09 Routan SE 3.8l and it has burned right about 1 qt every 1.1k miles for as long as I've had it. The consumption changes based on the type of driving we do. If we do a lot of around town driving, it doesn't seem to burn as much oil. If we drive on the freeway a lot, it tends to burn more oil.

VW dealer did an "oil consumption test." During that particular 1k interval, they claimed it burned only 0.6 qts. I also noticed they didn't fill it up all the way when they changed the oil...hmm. They said it wasn't bad enough for them to do anything yet.

I have full records of every quart of oil I put in that van and the average is just about 1 qt per 1.1k miles.

Car is at 30k miles, but I changed my own oil this last time and measured everything very carefully, taking pictures. I can't attest to the method or accuracy of the dealer's oil consumption test, so I thought I'd try to duplicate the test this time around myself.

The car also has what I'd consider poor idle quality, too. Maybe I should change the PCV valve to see if that makes a difference for both problems.

[AutoUnion32]

One other thing - the only service that is supposed to be required at dealer of purchase is the 90 day check-up. Any of the others can be done at any Volkswagen dealership.

No, it isn't. Any dealer can do the checkup too since VW pays for it. It isn't possible for some people who buy their cars a considerable distance away

[redzone98]

UPDATE:

Checked my oil today, with just 1000Miles on this oil change, and the Routan is over 1 QT LOW !!!

UNACCEPTABLE !

Im heading over to the Dealer now.

The car also has what I'd consider poor idle quality, too. Maybe I should change the PCV valve to see if that makes a difference for both problems.

I noticed that this Idle is terrible also. I will raise that issue at the dealer also.

[VWroutanvanman]

Which engine is having these oil consumption problems? The 4.0L?

[redzone98]

Which engine is having these oil consumption problems? The 4.0L?

3.8L

[haunted reality]

I have a 2009 Routan S 3.8 and I am noticing it likes to drink oil. I've been checking on my driveway and there is no oil on it. I put about 2 quarts in it a couple of weeks ago, checked it last night and it was back down below the "Safe" zone, wtf. I did make an appointment with my dealer for next week to look at it for me. Another somewhat related question, I bought mine CPO, so does the warranty extend 24,000 miles beyond the original 50,000 powertrain, or is 50,000 the longest I would have?

[taxman100]

You are correct. We drove to a dealer 105 miles away to buy our Routan, and we ended up having the 90 day service done locally. The local dealer was one we shopped, but they had no problem servicing a vehicle we bought elsewhere.

Actually, the "change oil" indicator came on at just under 3,900 miles, and Volkswagen did a free oil change as well.

For the 2011 and 2012 with the 3.6 liter Pentastar engine, the oil changes are now every 8,000 miles, so you get four free oil changes normally (I guess we'll get five)

[redzone98]

I have a 2009 Routan S 3.8 and I am noticing it likes to drink oil. I've been checking on my driveway and there is no oil on it. I put about 2 quarts in it a couple of weeks ago, checked it last night and it was back down below the "Safe" zone, wtf. I did make an appointment with my dealer for next week to look at it for me. Another somewhat related question, I bought mine CPO, so does the warranty extend 24,000 miles beyond the original 50,000 powertrain, or is 50,000 the longest I would have?

892 Miles and One Qt Down !

im going to swap out the PCV Valves and see what happens.. also going to switch to standard oil next change

[JETwagen]

Actually, the "change oil" indicator came on at just under 3,900 miles, and Volkswagen did a free oil change as well.

Mine came on around 3,200 miles and the dealer changed it. They made it sound like as long as we're in the 3yr/36k they will change the oil when the light comes on or the milage interval (whichever comes first.)

[haunted reality]

Mine's heading in next week for the oil consumption test. They checked it at last service saw no leaks, they told me to watch the oil level and if it gets low call back. I did and it is low, so they told me top it off and bring it in next week for the test. I hope we can get this resolved. Anyone have experience with the oil consumption test?

[redzone98]

Mine's heading in next week for the oil consumption test. They checked it at last service saw no leaks, they told me to watch the oil level and if it gets low call back. I did and it is low, so they told me top it off and bring it in next week for the test. I hope we can get this resolved. Anyone have experience with the oil consumption test?

Any luck with this test?

[haunted reality]

Any luck with this test?

Not exactly the service advisor we called that day said to top it off. When we took it in the SA said that was wrong. The consumption test would be inconclusive. So, they topped the oil off and said come back in 1k miles. I have a trip planned so that is why they topped it off and we have an appointment for when we come back. Hopefully I'll know more then.

[R32 802]

" One thing he did leave with me is that the absolute worst thing you can do to an engine is to start the car, then shut it off before it warms up, because the rings are not sealing well when cold, and the fuel that escapes past the rings washes the oil off of the cylinder walls. Then you get scratched cylinders, and engine life is reduced"

By the description here, the cylinders get scratched when the engine is cold so why would shutting it down early make a difference when the damage is done?
Short engine runs under operating temp in fact ARE bad for cars, but the explanation given is incorrect. Cylnders don't get scratched "more" by shutting down a cold engine.

The oil consumption tests that are typically done weigh the oil put in the engine down to the gram, then weigh the oil again after a driving interval typically more than 650 miles. The weight of the oil is compared to the weight of the oil installed and it's a very accurate determination of how much is missing.

[redzone98]

Bump this thread

[ReDGTI2EnVy]

Bump this thread

I had to get my Routan towed. I put 4,000 miles after my 36,000 service back in December. Yesterday the oil light started beeping, i took it to the dealer and they told me it had NO OIL AT ALL! ... I've had issues with this van ever since i purchased it. I honestly think now I wasted my money buying it, I found out too late this was a chrysler, nor a real VW. Now the dealer is trying to blame me for the damaged engine.

[R32 802]

I had to get my Routan towed. I put 4,000 miles after my 36,000 service back in December. Yesterday the oil light started beeping, i took it to the dealer and they told me it had NO OIL AT ALL! ... I've had issues with this van ever since i purchased it. I honestly think now I wasted my money buying it, I found out too late this was a chrysler, nor a real VW. Now the dealer is trying to blame me for the damaged engine.

Where did the oil go? If it was out, it either burned it or leaked it. One would think burning that much would leave a smoke trail visible from space, but leaking that much would make your driveway look like the Exxon Valdez landed on it. Did they tell you where the leak is? Did you ever check your oil? And really, you didn't know it was a Chrysler? Really?

[redzone98]

There is a TSB on the Jeep Forum about the Exhaust Valve retainers. Its a know issue, and VW is not owning up to it. I had an "oil consumption test" done on my Routan and im burning 3/4 Qt per 1000 miles. their Mandate is 1 Qt per 1000 Miles. So my Engine is within "spec"

which is bull ****. How can i drive 5K on an oil change if the engine is using 4Qts for that 5K miles ?!

Its a shame, but Im stuck now with this van. Its worth Nothing on a trade in (12,000$) and im not going to shell out another 30K for a new car.

Im going to just throw some thick ass "conventional" oil in there and run this ****er to the ground.

[Kola_Trinco]

Folks, I understand all of your pain, since I went thru the same. The PCV valve already replaced & didnt do any good. Finally VW found the issue. After repeated complains, VW came out with the solution. The dealer was asked to perform a "Compression Leak Down Test" to find the 5th & 6th CYL loosing compression thru intake valves (due to valve not seated properly - worn out). The CYL head & EGR valve replaced, as per the note. Oil leak yet to be confirmed, but I feel a big difference in the power (because I was driving all these days only with 4 CYL it looks). Mine is 2009 Routan with only 30K one. Hope this will help folks. I regret why I purchased Routan. VW has spoiled their hard earn name by placing the Crysler Engine.

[jee60]

That was good info on doing the leak down test. I have almost 72k miles now on my '09 with the 3.8. It has consumed ALMOST 1 quart per 1k miles, but of course that doesnt quite hit the 1quart per 1k miles mark, so they didnt do anything for me. Even though I brought it in twice. But, I can say that it has done this since it was brand new with 400 miles on it. I checked the oil regularly after I first bought it . Oh well. I guess ill keep adding oil every couple weeks. I am going to do a leak dow test though just out of curiosity.

[redzone98]

Folks, I understand all of your pain, since I went thru the same. The PCV valve already replaced & didnt do any good. Finally VW found the issue. After repeated complains, VW came out with the solution. The dealer was asked to perform a "Compression Leak Down Test" to find the 5th & 6th CYL loosing compression thru intake valves (due to valve not seated properly - worn out). The CYL head & EGR valve replaced, as per the note. Oil leak yet to be confirmed, but I feel a big difference in the power (because I was driving all these days only with 4 CYL it looks). Mine is 2009 Routan with only 30K one. Hope this will help folks. I regret why I purchased Routan. VW has spoiled their hard earn name by placing the Crysler Engine.

Kola, This is fantastic info. Do you have any of your service records showing the work done, And if you can make a copy of your service order. I believe it is time for me to start a claim with VWOA and the BBB on this obvious manufacturer defect.

thanks again

[cscsc]

Redzone: Just an FYI - In 1999 I bought a new T&C Limited, which came with the 3.8 engine. Almost at once, I noticed a small hesitation in the engine. Thinking about the symptoms, I took out a couple of the front sparkplugs and the #2 plug was badly fouled. Dealer replaced the plug [of course, first try the lazy fix and waste my time].

When I returned it a short time later [same problem], they did a compression test and found a leak. Upon removing the head, they found a valve seal improperly installed at the factory. Rebuit and reinstalled the head - no further problem.

We had that car for 10 years and 137K miles. Loved the car, did not like the engine - gas hog, especially around town, used a quart between 3K oil changes and seemed to lose power on hills past 75K or so.

So, when we looked at a replacement, the 4.0 was a must - no more 3.8. At 43K, the Routan has plenty of power, gets 25mpg or more on the highway and about 20mpg in mixed rural driving, is smooth and uses almost no oil between those 3K changes with Castrol GTX 10W-30.

Good luck with your claim. I think the 3.8 was just not a stellar engine.

[redzone98]

so true, this motor is worth more as scrap than anything else. I pulled the plugs yesterday, and they all show signs of burning oil. Im going to be calling the dealer on monday, because enough is enough here.

[theox]

same problem here... V3.8 Routan SE 1999 44K, dealer serviced till 36K.

The dealer is doing the "test" so I'll check back in 30 days.

It's a very nice van. I really hope VW comes through and takes care of it's customers and we can put this behind us.