Beetle R

[ridgemanron]

Special interior, exterior bumpers, wider fenders, vented hood, dual exhaust, AWD, lots of stuff.

Your 2012 Turbo isn't a Beetle R, nor will it ever be, sorry.

You're talking minor exterior tweaks, that will probably be available via the aftermarket soon
after it arrives, and not performance related items. You add the items I mentioned and
'performance wise' a Beetle R will not be able to out perform an APR Stage II Beetle car that is
at a much lower cost to the buyer. I'm not a big fan of the look of the Golf R body but with regard
to performance, my APR enriched Beetle is closer to it than any Beetle R that comes to fruition.
Heck, even the Recaro seats that are shown in both R's can be added for about $3,000 - $4,000
if someone wanted it in a base Turbo Beetle. P.S. - If I have to spend what a Beetle R will wind
up costing, I'll opt to wait for a Scirocco R. On a 'bling' level that car is 'BLING! BLING! BLING!,
and then some!

[SMG8vT]

So what you're saying is you regret not waiting for the R.

[ridgemanron]

So what you're saying is you regret not waiting for the R.

If you're talking about a Scirocco R then that is a new discusion onto itself. The Beetle R
will most likely not even arrive in the U.S. because of the high price VW will demand.
They should think more along the lines of the Scirocco, for that's the car VW enthusiasts
really want.

[SMG8vT]

I'm talking about the Beetle R.

[ridgemanron]

I'm talking about the Beetle R.

If the car ever arrives in the U.S., and you decide to pay what they will be asking
for what amounts to nothing that you can't add yourself to a Turbo beetle right now,
let me know, for I've got a bridge here in Brooklyn that you may also be interested
in purchasing.

[SMG8vT]

You're kidding yourself. You can throw an R32 bodykit on a 2.0L Golf and it's still a 2.0L Golf. Nobody's going to be swapping Beetle R bumpers, fenders, hoods, interior, etc for a looong time. Not to mention the AWD and the rumours of a 3.6L V6.

You obviously don't want your new, (and still very nice!) car to be obsolete but that's life.

[randomkoreanguy]

If the car ever arrives in the U.S., and you decide to pay what they will be asking
for what amounts to nothing that you can't add yourself to a Turbo beetle right now,
let me know, for I've got a bridge here in Brooklyn that you may also be interested
in purchasing.

Actually, because the Beetle is manufactured in North America, it costs less to produce for our market (and subsequently to buy) than a Scirocco would if they imported them from Europe. A Beetle R, even with AWD, would cost less than a comparable Golf R or Scirocco R for this reason (amongst others). This is also the primary reason why the Passat is now built in Tennessee, so that they can sell it for a lower, more competitive price than if they had simply imported the European one. Also, there's a lot more to an .:R model than simply a few minor add-ons. If you actually add up the cost to convert a run-of-the-mill standard Golf or GTI into a full blown Golf R strictly using the aftermarket, you'd probably give up on the idea very quickly. Having the OEM parts bin available, though, to upgrade your lower spec model is a very convenient thing for us enthusiasts nonetheless.

VW likes to overengineer their cars, probably for reliability and durability. This is part of the reason why you can throw so much more horsepower into it (via the aftermarket) without having the entire engine implode (or explode). An .:R model has every part related to its performance upgraded so that it can withstand the extra power without having any parts failures over the expected life of the car, even with regular, daily abuse. The actual list of parts that are different between a GTI and Golf R is quite long and would be expensive to replicate. Is it cheaper to simply throw an APR Stage III tune onto a GTI and call it a day? Sure. But that APR GTI will be a completely different kind of car than the Golf R and anyone who has driven both will tell you so. It's not about the pure numbers. It's about everything else, like the feel of the car, the sensation of how it drives and handles, the actual experience of being inside it. An .:R vehicle is supposed to feel like more, not necessarily in just pure performance numbers or statistics, but in other less tangible ways.

Also in a marginally related note, if they actually shoehorned a 3.6l VR6 into there with AWD (which I realize isn't the rumor, but even so), I would completely forsake the Golf R for the Beetle R. In an instant. And to hell with having four doors, I'd force myself to make do with a coupe somehow. (I'm such a sucker for that VR6.)

[ridgemanron]

You're kidding yourself. You can throw an R32 bodykit on a 2.0L Golf and it's still a 2.0L Golf. Nobody's going to be swapping Beetle R bumpers, fenders, hoods, interior, etc for a looong time. Not to mention the AWD and the rumours of a 3.6L V6.

You obviously don't want your new, (and still very nice!) car to be obsolete but that's life.

I've already seen a custom Turbo Beetle they showed at a show in Japan that looked even
better than the Beetle R concept originally shown at Frankfurt with regard to exterior and
interior. The 'looong' time you talk about may not be as long as you think. And your 'rumours'
of a 3.6L V6 arriving in a Beetle R will be a reality when pigs fly.

[VR6Now]

We may not even get the R in the U.S. or anywhere for that matter. AWD is not looking likely so the beetle R is not going to particularly special. You can chip a turbo yourself, put bigger brakes on, and swap springs and have the performance equivalent. The looks of the Beetle R are a little too boy-racer for me so I'd pass if I actually wanted the gas turbo in thie first place. No AWD is a no-go for me. Atleast the Golf actually benefits from the styling changes in R form.

No need to debate a car I think we'll never see outside the auto show circuit.

[DannyLo]

If there's a beetle with a 3.6l vr being made, I will seriously do everything in my power to try to be 1st in line. One condition: It must have 3 pedals.

[ridgemanron]

If there's a beetle with a 3.6l vr being made, I will seriously do everything in my power to try to be 1st in line. One condition: It must have 3 pedals.

You know, HPA in Canada is doing wild things with imported Scirocco's, even adding AWD
to their top model. Maybe they will be first to build a Beetle R? Problem is, they are a 'tad'
pricey with the Scirocco's ranging from about $85,000 to $150,000...and only allowed to
be registered in Texas or Florida.

[DannyLo]

You know, HPA in Canada is doing wild things with imported Scirocco's, even adding AWD
to their top model. Maybe they will be first to build a Beetle R? Problem is, they are a 'tad'
pricey with the Scirocco's ranging from about $85,000 to $150,000...and only allowed to
be registered in Texas or Florida.

Yeah I've read all about those cars, but i could never pay that kind of money for these cars.

Plus, I'd rather a stock one that I can modify myself.

[SMG8vT]

If there's a beetle with a 3.6l vr being made, I will seriously do everything in my power to try to be 1st in line. One condition: It must have 3 pedals.

Yep me too. I'd do whatever I had to to own one.

[Bigbadcj]

You know, HPA in Canada is doing wild things with imported Scirocco's, even adding AWD
to their top model. Maybe they will be first to build a Beetle R? Problem is, they are a 'tad'
pricey with the Scirocco's ranging from about $85,000 to $150,000...and only allowed to
be registered in Texas or Florida.

Buy a golf r. Exchange accordingly. = beetle r. Sell golf r with fwd beetle parts. Hmmmm I just saved 130000 to 65000.

[Bigbadcj]

Yep me too. I'd do whatever I had to to own one.

Apr was cramming one in a new red beetle. I saw this with my own eyes

[DannyLo]

Apr was cramming one in a new red beetle. I saw this with my own eyes

a 3.6?

I thought APR "dislikes" the VR6

[silverspeedbuggy]

Jamie mentioned VW using the 3.6? I find this hard to believe as VW (and most other manufacturers) are giving up on thirsty 6 cylinders in favor of their slew of turbo engines. If they can't get the proper cooling how would it be better with the 3.6?

I'm guessing the production delays have slowed down all Beetle models. The Beetle Convertible was supposed to premiere earlier this year but was pushed back because of the issues with the standard Beetles. All the buff books stated VW would be producing the R.

[silverspeedbuggy]

Jamie mentioned VW using the 3.6? I find this hard to believe as VW (and most other manufacturers) are giving up on thirsty 6 cylinders in favor of their slew of turbo engines.

Not saying Jamie is a liar, I'm just questioning if he ACTUALLY said this.

[randomkoreanguy]

Not saying Jamie is a liar, I'm just questioning if he ACTUALLY said this.

Not sure, but supposedly they tested the 3.6 in the MKV R32 before deciding it wasn't possible/feasible without really heavy modification to the car, so the fact that there are mules testing the configuration doesn't necessarily mean it'll come to pass unfortunately. It's not impossible that he said it, but even if he did, that doesn't guarantee it'll make it to production. That being said, I could see how the fact that the nose of the car has no opening above the lower bumper grill openings could lead to issues cooling a high performance turbo 4. Even the Scirocco has an opening near the base of the hood (albeit a small one), but the Beetle is all sealed up.

But again, this is all conjecture anyway. Until a concrete decision is made and the camouflaged mule is heard roaming around, we can only guess as to what will be under the hood. Once the mule is out and about, it should be obvious if it's a VR6 or a turbo 4. I'll be honest, I'll be surprised if it's a VR6 under there, because my understanding of it was always that they were trying to slowly phase out this engine due to multiple factors that work against it (as the whole industry is moving towards smaller displacement, turbocharging, and greater fuel efficiency).

It would be a nice surprise, though, despite the disadvantages. In spite of the fact that it'll probably adversely affect the handling, make the car nose heavy, drink fuel down like an SUV, I still hold an irrational kind of affection for that engine. The power delivery, the sound, I just love the way it feels compared to a turbo-4. It would be a nice going away present to the VR6 to shove it into the front of a high performance Beetle.

[venom600]

Not saying Jamie is a liar, I'm just questioning if he ACTUALLY said this.

I'm the one he said it to. Would you like for me to post the PM verbatim?

[silverspeedbuggy]

I'm the one he said it to. Would you like for me to post the PM verbatim?

Absolutely.

[ridgemanron]

I had read that November would be when the convertible would emerge. I remember
mentioning this to the head honcho at VW in Brooklyn some time back and he said,
"makes sense that they would release it too late for summer !'

[venom600]

Absolutely.

...or, you know, you could just ask him yourself. Takes two seconds. But since I brought it up...

jamie@vwvortex
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Re: Special MK6 Cars?
03-26-2012 07:46 AM

With Golf 6 production winding down at the end of this year, I don't think there will be any significant changes before Golf 7. Beetle R is still being worked on, but it will likely be 3.6l VR6 FWD as the new version of the Golf R engine won't fit/has cooling issues in the Beetle. There are mules out tooling around with the VR6 in the Beetle. We'll see...

-jamie

and in response to my question about VW putting so much power through the front wheels

jamie@vwvortex
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Re: Special MK6 Cars?
04-03-2012 07:27 AM

They have a new electronic/mechanical locking diff that they can use. It works quite well and would be a stop-gap. To be honest this is coming down to either doing the Beetle R with the compromise or not doing a Beetle R.

-j

[silverspeedbuggy]

Good to know. Thanks.

[randomkoreanguy]

Of note:
He doesn't mention what the actual engine of the new Golf R is, only that it doesn't fit into the engine bay of the Beetle and has cooling issues.

What could be more difficult to shoehorn into the front of a Beetle than a 3.6l VR6, I wonder?

Cheers.

[venom600]

Of note:
He doesn't mention what the actual engine of the new Golf R is, only that it doesn't fit into the engine bay of the Beetle and has cooling issues.

What could be more difficult to shoehorn into the front of a Beetle than a 3.6l VR6, I wonder?

Cheers.

He was specifically referring to the 2.0T FSI engine in the current Golf R. It was mentioned in earlier correspondence I didn't post.

[randomkoreanguy]

Hm. Another question then, he mentioned the electro-mechanical diff would be a stop-gap. That implies that it's a solution that's of a temporary nature. Did he mention any possibility of what a permanent fix would be? Would it be a solution that would be in place essentially until the next generation (third gen, I suppose) Beetle? Given that the Focus RS was FWD, having a 300-ish horsepower VR6 Beetle has some bit of precedent, but VW has always seemed reluctant to shove that much power to just the front wheels in the past. (Until the Scirocco R appeared, which has very positive reviews, as does the Focus RS.)

[DannyLo]

If this happens, I will be a really happy camper in the future when it arrives and I can buy a 'new' VR6 powered car as a fun daily.

If the newer passat vr6s came with 3 pedals, i would've already

[Aonarch]

If the Beetle R has a 3.6L and 3 pedals it will be in my garage...

[UnitedGTI.]

damn i am holding out for AWD 2.0t beetle. hell i really just want the AWD. i guess i could be alright with an awd 3.6l beetle.

[SMG8vT]

Any news on this? I'm really hoping they bring the Beetle R into production...

I'm building a MK4 Beetle R while I wait. I've got a low-mileage 3.2 sitting here on a pallet, ordering the rest of the parts next week.

[WoodOne337]

Updates?

[DannyLo]

a 3.6?

I thought APR "dislikes" the VR6

I was wrong: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...3.6-VR6-Beetle

[jamie@vwvortex]

The saga of what to put into a potential Beetle R is a long story. The shortest version is that the all-new version of the 2.0TFSI that will be built at the new engine factory in Mexico wouldn't work in the new Beetle without some investment in tooling. Rumor has it upper management said no way to the VR6 in the Beetle R and gave approval to make the investment necessary to fit the new 2.0TFSI (this is a new version that has the exhaust manifold liquid cooled and integrated into the head).

So if we apply some deductive logic to all this, it would make sense that VW is going to source all 2.0TFSI engines for Beetle and Jetta from the new engine factory in northern Mexico (which is also building the new 1.8TFSI that will replace the 2.5 inline-5). That would mean a new 2.0TFSI across the board in the Beetle and Jetta in the next 14-16 months I'd guess. This new engine is supposedly the single new 2.0T moving forward that can be used in 210-280hp applications.

So it would appear *if* the Beetle R gets the green light, it would use the 2.0T.

-jamie

[randomkoreanguy]

The saga of what to put into a potential Beetle R is a long story. The shortest version is that the new all-new version of the 2.0TFSI that will be built at the new engine factory in Mexico wouldn't work in the new Beetle without some investment in tooling. Rumor has it upper management said no way to the VR6 in the Beetle R and gave approval to make the investment necessary to fit the new 2.0TFSI (this is a new version that has the exhaust manifold liquid cooled and integrated into the head).

So if we apply some deductive logic to all this, it would make sense that VW is going to source all 2.0TFSI engines for Beetle and Jetta from the new engine factory in northern Mexico (which is also building the new 1.8TFSI that will replace the 2.5 inline-5). That would mean a new 2.0TFSI across the board in the Beetle and Jetta in the next 14-16 months I'd guess. This new engine is supposedly the single new 2.0T moving forward that can be used in 210-280hp applications.

So it would appear *if* the Beetle R gets the green light, it would use the 2.0T.

-jamie

I love that VR6 engine to death, probably to the point of being irrational about it, but that being said, I do understand the decision to shoot it down. I recently had a chance to drive around a Camaro SS, and I was shocked at how close the MPG numbers are to the R32, given how much larger the engine is and how much more horsepower it produces. VWAG's 2.0T engine is universally loved and praised, so using the new version of it in the Beetle R does make more sense. That being said, I think sometimes there's nothing logical about being a car enthusiast and sometimes going against logic produces cars like the Toyota GT86/Scion FR-S/Subaru BRZ (which, for me, is like the shock of the decade that this car came out of a company like Toyota who has been completely disinterested in anything sporty since the dawn of the Prius). But the whole front wheel drive only news makes me feel like the 2.0 is the better choice in the end anyway, so c'est la vie.