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    Thread: 10k Revs of 2.5L Big Turbo AWD Rabbit Madness!

    1. 06-20-2011 06:35 PM #1
      Originally dubbed Project Mad Rabbit This 2007 Rabbit over the last 2 months has been a fun project that we are really looking forward to. This car was previously an SCCA SSC car which besides the cage meant that it was virtually stock. Over the last 2 months we have slowly been transforming it and trying out different setups. Currently it has the following modifications

      • H&R Front and Rear Swaybars
      • BSH Sway Bar End Links
      • JC Cross Competition Coilovers
      • United Motorsport Short Runner Intake
      • Bluewater Performance Stage 1 Flex Fuel Tune
      • Eurojet Header
      • Eurojet Exhaust
      • Full 6 point Race Cage
      • Thunderbunny Rear Bumper
      • Thunderbunny Side Skirts
      • Votex Lower Front Lip
      • Bluewater Battery Relocation Kit
      • Ported and Polished Head

      We plan on dynoing the current setup and we are hoping for around 220whp which would make it the highest HP NA Rabbit and as soon as we are finished at the dyno we are starting stage 2 of the transformation.

      Stage 2 will consist of
      • Integrated Engineering Rods
      • JE 8.5:1cr Pistons
      • Knife Edged Crankshaft
      • Precision 6765 Billet turbine Ball Bearing Turbo
      • 3" Downpipe
      • Custom Cams
      • Bluewater Performance Billet Valve Cover
      • Custom Turbo Manifold
      • Custom Stainless intercooler Piping
      • Treadstone Front Mount Intercooler
      • Bora 4 Motion Drivetrain
      • Peloquin Diff
      • 08 Golf R32 Rear AWD Swap
      • Sparco Pro ADV Race Seats
      • Sparco 5 Point Harnesses
      • Wheels and Tires TBD



      Ultimately the goal for this car is to be ready in time to go out to Bonneville in September with our turbo R and then compete in NASA sanctioned racing events and possibly the Eurotuner GP.
      We have hp goals of around the 600hp-700hp range and are building it to rev all the way to 10k!! which will make this thing amazing to drive and hear! None of this would be possible without the help of United Motorsport and United Motorsport UK. They are a big sponsor of this project and we are happy to have them along with us. We love the 2.5L engine and feel that there is so much potential for this setup.
























    2. Member dhenry's Avatar
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      06-20-2011 06:55 PM #2
      wow cant wait to see the final product.
      in for the dynos
      for more companies contributing to the 2.5l society

    3. Member nunumkv's Avatar
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      06-20-2011 07:07 PM #3
      WDF im so in for this!

    4. 06-20-2011 07:10 PM #4
      how much do i have to pay you to make my car like this. ill drive there and meet you

    5. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-20-2011 07:15 PM #5
      No valvetrain work for 10k?

      And also, only 220 whp on na?

      I'm not bashing, nor its my intention... But I thought with headers and intake mani, 210 was easy with the software... Add to that the e85 and I thought more than 220 was possible. I do understand that you are sying that "at least" 220... But I'd think that "at least" it would be 230whp.. That, if e85 is that good.

      On the valvetrain, I have read over and over that after 8k you start to be on the edge... So 10k would def need an upgrade... Also, is the crank pulley needed?? Or this is on the stock pulley???

      Lastly, you said 08 r rear... What about the box itself? Dsg? Manual?

    6. 06-20-2011 07:31 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      No valvetrain work for 10k?

      And also, only 220 whp on na?

      I'm not bashing, nor its my intention... But I thought with headers and intake mani, 210 was easy with the software... Add to that the e85 and I thought more than 220 was possible. I do understand that you are sying that "at least" 220... But I'd think that "at least" it would be 230whp.. That, if e85 is that good.

      On the valvetrain, I have read over and over that after 8k you start to be on the edge... So 10k would def need an upgrade... Also, is the crank pulley needed?? Or this is on the stock pulley???

      Lastly, you said 08 r rear... What about the box itself? Dsg? Manual?
      We will be pushing as far as we can on the stock drivetrain to see where it tops out at and then we will be upgrading from there. As far as HP numbers go keep in mind that the density altitude of where we dyno is typically around 6500' elevation which is a huge factor on the dyno numbers so we lose quite a bit up here. Also we will be using a Bora 4 Motion manual box. We were going to do the DSG swap but with our power goal the DSG box isn't proven to hold that much so we opted for a manual box for the time being.

    7. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-20-2011 07:46 PM #7
      What about the crank pulley?? Keeping it stock?

      Also, shouldn't the dyno have altitude correction??

    8. 06-20-2011 07:53 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      What about the crank pulley?? Keeping it stock?

      Also, shouldn't the dyno have altitude correction??
      The crank pulley will be upgraded along with many other parts not listed but we will update the list as we go. Also we can put in altitude correction so I can post uncorrected and corrected HP numbers.

    9. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-20-2011 09:32 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by gabe@bwperformance View Post
      The crank pulley will be upgraded along with many other parts not listed but we will update the list as we go. Also we can put in altitude correction so I can post uncorrected and corrected HP numbers.
      great! thanks...

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      06-20-2011 10:35 PM #10
      Any videos of the car on the track?
      I would love to watch it for a few laps.

    11. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-20-2011 10:52 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by TeamZleep View Post
      You guys are doing what every one of us on here wants to do with our cars. Only difference?




      You guys have money.


      In to see where this goes!
      same thought. althou i wouldnt do e85, but 93 with meth/water...

    12. 06-21-2011 12:12 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by thygreyt View Post
      same thought. althou i wouldnt do e85, but 93 with meth/water...
      With a turbo car E-85 is far less risky and the power difference is far greater than with water meth.

    13. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-21-2011 12:28 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by gabe@bwperformance View Post
      With a turbo car E-85 is far less risky and the power difference is far greater than with water meth.
      i know.. but e85 is unavailable to me.

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      06-21-2011 01:40 PM #14
      So here is my thought. I think once all of these SuperRabbits have been built there should be some sort of competition to nsee who has built the best one. I would love to see the BW Performance Rabbit vs. the Unitronic Rabbit vs. a built C2 Rabbit! Battle of the bunnies anyone?

    15. 06-21-2011 02:23 PM #15
      I'd rather see a company invest money in producing quality products for the market instead of playing a who's got a bigger dick.

      If building a insane Rabbit leads to developement in tuning, bolt-ons, internals, cams, etc. Then it is money well spent. Otherwise it is just a show piece.

    16. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-21-2011 03:06 PM #16
      by doing the showpiece they also do some "research"... such that by reving to 10k, they'll test to what i'd think, the limits of the valvetrain and flow at higher rpms.

      with the BIG turbo, they'll test the bottom end, and so on...

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      06-21-2011 05:26 PM #17
      Exactly. This is how new development comes around. If no one ever said, "Hey, I wanna turbocharge my 2.5L," then no one else would have said, "I want to put a BIGGER turo in my 2.5L."

      I say let them play. The more they push, the more they will see a need for parts to accomodate that push. And why would you make one-off parts when you can make a bunch and sell them to people like us who will gladly pay for the small advantage those parts may give us.

    18. Banner Advertiser pete@integrated's Avatar
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      06-21-2011 08:02 PM #18
      You won't get anywhere near 10k on stock valvetrain without float. Even with a bigger spring 10k is borderline... Then there is the stock cams...

      Gabe, email me- we may have some stuff available in the next few months which may help your cause.
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    19. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-21-2011 10:55 PM #19
      do we have a tester for the upcoming cams?

      i believe so

    20. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-21-2011 11:34 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by TeamZleep View Post
      Yeah... My car should be up for cam testing... I track the crap out of it.
      i will start to do so too... lol!

    21. 06-22-2011 04:51 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by kiserhd View Post
      I'd rather see a company invest money in producing quality products for the market instead of playing a who's got a bigger dick.

      If building a insane Rabbit leads to developement in tuning, bolt-ons, internals, cams, etc. Then it is money well spent. Otherwise it is just a show piece.
      We are utilizing this project to develop an engine that is capable of revving to 10k. We plan on also using this vehicle in the NASA GTS series on lower boost of course. It is not being built as just a show piece. We are really excited about the 2.5l and we want to push the envelope to see where things go.

      Quote Originally Posted by pete@integrated View Post
      You won't get anywhere near 10k on stock valvetrain without float. Even with a bigger spring 10k is borderline... Then there is the stock cams...

      Gabe, email me- we may have some stuff available in the next few months which may help your cause.
      Thanks Pete I will email you. But dont think that with the stock drivetrain it is too far off. We have been pushing our current setup past 8500rpm for over 3 months now without a bit of issue or any valve float and the logs that we have done prove that it continues to pull all the way to redline. Now going past that point cams and valvetrain will need to come in to play but so far the stock valvetrain has proven itself over and over again everyday.

    22. 06-22-2011 08:29 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by gabe@bwperformance View Post
      We are utilizing this project to develop an engine that is capable of revving to 10k. We plan on also using this vehicle in the NASA GTS series on lower boost of course. It is not being built as just a show piece. We are really excited about the 2.5l and we want to push the envelope to see where things go.
      Sounds good to me. I'm working on a set of cams right now. When I get back and start test and tune for them I can kick you my data sheets if they help any.

    23. 06-22-2011 12:34 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by kiserhd View Post
      Sounds good to me. I'm working on a set of cams right now. When I get back and start test and tune for them I can kick you my data sheets if they help any.
      That would be nice. Any additional information couldn't hurt.

    24. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-22-2011 01:34 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by gabe@bwperformance View Post
      Thanks Pete I will email you. But dont think that with the stock drivetrain it is too far off. We have been pushing our current setup past 8500rpm for over 3 months now without a bit of issue or any valve float and the logs that we have done prove that it continues to pull all the way to redline. Now going past that point cams and valvetrain will need to come in to play but so far the stock valvetrain has proven itself over and over again everyday.
      arent there any issues? i was told that the crank on the 2.5 is on the heavy side, so at high RPMs it creates a lag cause of the rotating mass.

    25. Banner Advertiser pete@integrated's Avatar
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      06-23-2011 09:42 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by gabe@bwperformance View Post
      We are utilizing this project to develop an engine that is capable of revving to 10k. We plan on also using this vehicle in the NASA GTS series on lower boost of course. It is not being built as just a show piece. We are really excited about the 2.5l and we want to push the envelope to see where things go.



      Thanks Pete I will email you. But dont think that with the stock drivetrain it is too far off. We have been pushing our current setup past 8500rpm for over 3 months now without a bit of issue or any valve float and the logs that we have done prove that it continues to pull all the way to redline. Now going past that point cams and valvetrain will need to come in to play but so far the stock valvetrain has proven itself over and over again everyday.

      The valve spring requirements increase exponentially- you need a hell of a lot more spring for 10k, then 9k for example.

      FWIW, the FSI springs are a cheap "junkyard" upgrade, not that you care. Interesting tidbit though.
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    26. 06-24-2011 01:39 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by pete@integrated View Post
      The valve spring requirements increase exponentially- you need a hell of a lot more spring for 10k, then 9k for example.

      FWIW, the FSI springs are a cheap "junkyard" upgrade, not that you care. Interesting tidbit though.
      I don't doubt that at all, coming from a sprint car backround and working a lot with big block and small block applications I am very aware of what it can take to make a high revving engine and trust me you guys will be getting a call from me about the valvetrain components.

      We love IE

    27. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-24-2011 01:55 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by gabe@bwperformance View Post
      I don't doubt that at all, coming from a sprint car backround and working a lot with big block and small block applications I am very aware of what it can take to make a high revving engine and trust me you guys will be getting a call from me about the valvetrain components.

      We love IE
      just wondering... why not INA?
      they are forum sponsors, and my experience with them has been nothing but incredible.

      for issam.

    28. 06-24-2011 04:34 AM #28
      We are trying to work with INA on some parts as well but so far we have never had any luck.

    29. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      06-24-2011 01:19 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by nightshift1963 View Post
      how much do i have to pay you to make my car like this. ill drive there and meet you
      Yay a new nightshift
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
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      06-24-2011 01:30 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      Yay a new nightshift

    31. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      06-24-2011 02:58 PM #31
      Im gonna suggest that if you plan on NASA and what ever endurance events that you use a AWIC.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv-sold; 2003 yellow SRT-4-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp(900+awhp rebuild in progress)

    32. 06-24-2011 07:16 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      Im gonna suggest that if you plan on NASA and what ever endurance events that you use a AWIC.
      Along with the front mount setup we are also working on an awic setup.

    33. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      06-24-2011 08:03 PM #33
      Sounds good. Im in for the results utilizing a awic
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv-sold; 2003 yellow SRT-4-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp(900+awhp rebuild in progress)

    34. Member thygreyt's Avatar
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      06-24-2011 08:57 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      Sounds good. Im in for the results utilizing a awic
      same here.

    35. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      06-25-2011 11:15 AM #35
      Also in for the dyno graph. Wanna see how fast that big ol' terbo spool
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
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