TSI Intake Manifold Removal DIY + Valve Cleaning

[maotsetung]

^ If you have less than 10K on the clock and barely drive your car..you should be fine. Usually guys do it roughly around 50K-80K and some do it earlier. It really depends on you. You should have someone do a vag-com check on your car to see what's up with cel.


---
- thanks,
- mao

[A3Tripod]

I'm taking it in to VW today to have them look at it. Of course when I called, they guessed it was emissions related. The CEL came on again last night...i think this makes 6 times now in the last month. I'll let you know if its manifold related.


Trip to dealership #1
Dealer said that a sensor was sending a fault - related to evaporative emissions. Tech found it to be the sensor used to monitor intake manifold flapper actuation. Said he tweaked the sensor and sent me home. Of course I knew this wouldn't fix it, but I played their game. The next day, my CEL came on.

Trip to dealership #2
Dealer traced the fault to the same sensor and noticed this time that the flappers were sticking. VW replaced the intake manifold with a revised version under warranty. the revised version has lubrication spots that are further away from where the flappers pivot. Supposedly, the previous mani would clog at those lubrication ports and due to their close proximity to the flappers, would cause them to stick. Sounds like a load of bunk, but that's what he said. Also updated the ECQ to increase fuel pressure in the injectors - this is supposed to help as well???

No CEL since, but its only been about 300 miles on the car.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

Friend of mine just purchased a media blaster and some walnut shell media.
We are going to setup an install day and both of us are going to clean out our valves sometime coming up.

[EngTech1]

This may be the REAL answer.... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4387972-Bypassing-PCV-and-routing-to-exhaust-description-(DIY)-(long)&highlight=bypass

I'm trying to get a Real Understanding - is all the Technical Data - on this
PVC System for the - - - 2.0 TSI - VW

Anyone is this Picture an Exact Design - Or - What It should have Been ?

Picture of Audi's PVC or FSI's ?

As I can't seem to find the Filter - Mentioned / The Pic makes it seem PVC has a Filter. This could just be the FSI's PVC system and It's Oil Filter .

[/IMG]http://

[.skully.]

[B] I'm trying to get a Real Understanding - is all the Technical Data - on this
PVC System for the - - - 2.0 TSI - VW

Page 25 and 26 here: http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/VW/Misc...SSP_824803.pdf

[VWRedux]

This study guide is not without its flaws! Page 8 clearly shows its the exhaust camshaft that has the 4 lobe cam for the fuel pump. Then on page 38 it clearly states that its the "intake camshaft" with the 4 lobe cam.

[.skully.]

This study guide is not without its flaws! Page 8 clearly shows its the exhaust camshaft that has the 4 lobe cam for the fuel pump. Then on page 38 it clearly states that its the "intake camshaft" with the 4 lobe cam.

Good eye. I wonder if there is an updated pdf since that was printed in 2008.

[EngTech1]

That's some real good Input , really appreciate that .

Dan


ps: I did the Sea-Foam thing into Intake yesterday : ( Sprayed into Hot Manifold )
, and let the Stuff Rest in there . I also added Marvel to Oil and Drove 60 miles afterward
then Dropped Oil and Fresh Filter . It seems to be running Better ( Smoother ) - this will turn into a long term Test .


ps: Page 28 : Engine Coil Cooler - Yes I can see the Coils being Cooled by the Oil & Water
going though the - Oil Cooler . another Error .

I step Cooler Spark Plug would help Cool those Coils :

[Super Hans]

I seafoamed with the special U-nozzle at 12k. Got no smoke at all. 1/2 a can. Will do the other 1/2 next spring.

[ManTech]

That's some real good Input , really appreciate that .

Dan


ps: I did the Sea-Foam thing into Intake yesterday : ( Sprayed into Hot Manifold )
, and let the Stuff Rest in there . I also added Marvel to Oil and Drove 60 miles afterward
then Dropped Oil and Fresh Filter . It seems to be running Better ( Smoother ) - this will turn into a long term Test .


ps: Page 28 : Engine Coil Cooler - Yes I can see the Coils being Cooled by the Oil & Water
going though the - Oil Cooler . another Error .

I step Cooler Spark Plug would help Cool those Coils :

I seafoamed with the special U-nozzle at 12k. Got no smoke at all. 1/2 a can. Will do the other 1/2 next spring.

You can Seafoam every day of the week for seven months straight, it doesn't do a thing. A fellow officer buddy of mine who lives in Cold Spring Harbor NY has a 2.0T EOS. He Seafoamed it twice this year. (I helped him the first time.) The second time he did it himself and cracked his manifold somehow () and had the dealership replace it under warranty. (He's good with that sort of thing.)

That same day he ran by the dealership a little early on the way home from work only to find that they had just started on his car and it wouldn't be ready until the next day. When he looked into his intake ports, (the manifold and all had been removed) he said they were so clogged and dirty with carbon, he told them to clean the ports and valves as well! They did the job but charged him $500.00 extra! He told me the inside of his cracked intake manifold wasn't any better. He also said he will never buy that SeaCrap ever again or waste his time with "miracle juices out of a can"! That's how he said it.

[VWRedux]

You can Seafoam every day of the week for seven months straight, it doesn't do a thing. A fellow officer buddy of mine who lives in Cold Spring Harbor NY has a 2.0T EOS. He Seafoamed it twice this year. (I helped him the first time.) The second time he did it himself and cracked his manifold somehow () and had the dealership replace it under warranty. (He's good with that sort of thing.)

That same day he ran by the dealership a little early on the way home from work only to find that they had just started on his car and it wouldn't be ready until the next day. When he looked into his intake ports, (the manifold and all had been removed) he said they were so clogged and dirty with carbon, he told them to clean the ports and valves as well! They did the job but charged him $500.00 extra! He told me the inside of his cracked intake manifold wasn't any better. He also said he will never buy that SeaCrap ever again or waste his time with "miracle juices out of a can"! That's how he said it.

Any pix?

[VWAddict]

DO you have to rotate the engine to an 'all-valves-closed' position, or can you just take off the manifold and "have-at-it"?

[steelcurtain]

DO you have to rotate the engine to an 'all-valves-closed' position, or can you just take off the manifold and "have-at-it"?

Yes, you have to close the valves off by rotating the crank.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

Just out of curiosity any idea what size socket is needed to turn the crank?
Been wondering about that

[steelcurtain]

I didn't use a socket. You can just turn the crank pulley or belt if you got the muscle to do it. It helps to wear some mechanic gloves for better grip. You might want to empty your bowels before you do it so you don't **** your pants cause it isn't easy. But on the bright side you don't have to take the wheel off!

[ViRtUaLheretic]

real men will just sh!t their pants

Thanks for the tidbit

[steelcurtain]

real men will just sh!t their pants

Thanks for the tidbit

[VWAddict]

Worth pulling the spark plugs?

That would make turning the engine over somewhat simpler, plus I'm wondering how the plugs look. -I don't even recall right now what the standard replacement mileage is for them...?

[VR6 BELIEVER]

That's some real good Input , really appreciate that .

Dan


ps: I did the Sea-Foam thing into Intake yesterday : ( Sprayed into Hot Manifold )
, and let the Stuff Rest in there . I also added Marvel to Oil and Drove 60 miles afterward
then Dropped Oil and Fresh Filter . It seems to be running Better ( Smoother ) - this will turn into a long term Test .


ps: Page 28 : Engine Coil Cooler - Yes I can see the Coils being Cooled by the Oil & Water
going though the - Oil Cooler . another Error .

I step Cooler Spark Plug would help Cool those Coils :

Please stop using the Shift key...

[steelcurtain]

Worth pulling the spark plugs?

That would make turning the engine over somewhat simpler, plus I'm wondering how the plugs look. -I don't even recall right now what the standard replacement mileage is for them...?

It wouldn't hurt.

[irongrey]

I'm taking it in to VW today to have them look at it. Of course when I called, they guessed it was emissions related. The CEL came on again last night...i think this makes 6 times now in the last month. I'll let you know if its manifold related.


Trip to dealership #1
Dealer said that a sensor was sending a fault - related to evaporative emissions. Tech found it to be the sensor used to monitor intake manifold flapper actuation. Said he tweaked the sensor and sent me home. Of course I knew this wouldn't fix it, but I played their game. The next day, my CEL came on.

Trip to dealership #2
Dealer traced the fault to the same sensor and noticed this time that the flappers were sticking. VW replaced the intake manifold with a revised version under warranty. the revised version has lubrication spots that are further away from where the flappers pivot. Supposedly, the previous mani would clog at those lubrication ports and due to their close proximity to the flappers, would cause them to stick. Sounds like a load of bunk, but that's what he said. Also updated the ECQ to increase fuel pressure in the injectors - this is supposed to help as well???

No CEL since, but its only been about 300 miles on the car.

I am not a DIY guy, but I do want to chime in on this manifold discussion. I recently had my intake manifold replaced under warrantee (40k miles) after 4 months of escalating engine problems which included rough idle, sputtering at low rpms when cold, and a nasty engine "hiccup" (hesitate/surge) at 2500rpms. To quote the tech notes, "the intake runner has broken from the adjustment lever". Is this the issue you guys are talking about with the flappers? Dealer told me some valve in the intake manifold was getting stuck and not opening and closing as designed.

He aslo told me about a design issue with the older intake manifolds, that they were undated in 2009, and that he installed the newer intake manifold on my car. This sounds very much like what you were told.

And finally, the dealer said I had a lot of carbon build up, and this is after they did a carbon build up clean with some agent. Dealer said he spent an hour scrapping the carbon off by hand.

[M@!]

3,000 miles after my warranty expired and p2015. I wish I would have known about this problem as I would have definitely gotten an extended warranty. Anybody have luck with VW doing work right after warranty expiration?

[steelcurtain]

3,000 miles after my warranty expired and p2015. I wish I would have known about this problem as I would have definitely gotten an extended warranty. Anybody have luck with VW doing work right after warranty expiration?

As a matter a fact, yes, they practically replaced my entire Passat engine under goodwill warranty. If your within 10k of expiration you have a good chance. The closer the better. Good relations with your shop helps...it all starts there. GL

[wh4l3salad]

Hey steelcurtain, thanks a lot for the DIY!

There were few subtle differences for me, but overall, the guide was excellent. Note: 2010 CBFA (California) 2.0TSI. @ 42,3xx miles Removing the TB is indeed a pain in the ASS. Also, I had to pull on the manifold a lot harder than I imagined to pop it off of the injectors. All but one stayed in the block.

I originally used B12 Chemtool (slacked off on getting a more heavy duty cleanser). Made sure the valves were closed and started on cyl 1 and 2. Filled both runners to the tippy top and let it sit for 20 minutes. That alone did almost nothing. Eventually we started using pipe cleaners (these puppies from amazon, prime FTW!) and that did better. The final trick came from reading more of the comments in this thread: CLR. Sucking all the B12 out and then putting CLR in was insane. After 15 minutes and a bit of scrubbing, the valves were nearly immaculate.

Then we pulled the spark plugs and spun the crank (from alternator belt) so we could get cyl 3 and 4. Poured CLR in, and it did nearly nothing. Even with lots of scrubbing with the brushes (not really wire, but nylon) it didn't really do anything. Seems the combination of B12 and CLR is what did it for me (never mixed them together actually, didn't want to pretend to pull a breaking bad and blow the garage up).

By this time it's 2am. My bud lost one of my throttle body bolts in the charge pipe leading down to the intercooler, so we jacked the car up (somehow got away with getting this far without doing that, and without removing the charge pipe). Pulled all that out and he used his little magnet wand to suck the bolt out of the intercooler (which was covered in oil, makes me wonder how much oil is sitting in my intercooler).

Next morning (this morning) I pulled the intake flap things out of a jug of CLR and my bud scraped as much gunk as he could off of them. I noticed that one side was easy to clean while the other was not. Almost as though one side was painted black. We got those puppies pretty clean, cleaned the face of the head where the intake mani makes contact, slid the flaps in, and got to work re-assembling everything.

Note, we had to remove my oil filter to slide the intake manifold in and out. Luckily we have these radtacular oil mounts where you can remove it and put it back without any problems.

Other miscellaneous notes that I can remember off the top of my head:

• I opened and closed my car door (with lock/unlock added in) a few times after plugging the batt back in to prime the fuel system. Also went in and out of accessory mode a few times. Starting the car it cranked a lot longer than usual but eventually she started right up.
• I did not have any M6 bolts underneath my manifold, just a single #10 12-point for the mounting bracket. I had two T30 bolts and two 10mm nuts on some long studs at the far right and left.

I double and triple checked everything. Happened to also have 4 new coilpacks, so replaced those since one had recently failed and the other two were probably on their way out. I was lucky to turn her on and have zero issues, no CEL, no misfires, nothing. The idle was a teeny bit rough for a few seconds, but I'd imagine that was due to working any air bubbles out of the fuel system, and any remaining gunk/crap on the valves.

Took her for a long drive today up into the Angeles National Forest. It was a beautiful day. The car pulls noticeably harder and feels new again. It makes different noises, its louder, and quite honestly just sounds healthier. I can hear my DV and my intake noise much, much better. This may be due to the fact that I removed the shroud from my BSH intake (it was wearing on a coolant line and is about to eat it completely away, time to sell it for a Carbonio or other alternative). But honestly my car sounds turbocharged now. I can hear it boosting perfectly. Everyone on the forums explains these things and I've never understood: now I do. I can hear the air going in, I can hear the DV doing its thing under light/heavy loads (a gentle hiss vs a louder one, etc... everything just feels much, much better after doing this.

My throttle pedal feels different though. I feel like I need to apply more pedal to achieve the same general cruising speed on the freeway. I will perform a throttle body adaptation via VCDS later (my bud cleaned my TB with a rag, it might be un-calibrated now) once my car cools down.

Phew, I know I am missing lots of details but if anyone has questions feel free to ask I'd love to offer my advice with anything as this was definitely the most intense thing I've done to my car to-date. Thanks again to the OP for putting this together!

ON TO THE PICTURES!!!



Doing work!




Here was our cleaning setup. Plenty of rags to cover the injectors and it also provided a nice little work area to rest the brushes.


My bud is an aircraft mechanic (blackhawk helicopters, specifically) so he has all kinds of aircraft-precision tools. This is like a dental pick or something... we used a few of these to help pick some of the nastier **** off.


Here is before. All of mine were pretty damn horrible. I only had my iphone on me at the time that I took these shots, so sorry for the poor quality.


And this was after lots of scrubbing and the B12/CLR combo. Definitely could have gotten everything way cleaner with a stronger chemical. That is one bit of advice for those of you attempting this: always have the correct tools, that includes your cleanser. Get the right stuff and let it do the work for you!

[steelcurtain]

Glad to hear it all worked out. I'm not surprised on the subtle differences. The DIY was done on a 2008.5 build MKV TSI. I've noticed differences with the MKVI in terms of the FMIC install compared to the MKV but never had the chance to do a mani removal on the MKVI.

[MK6GTI]

Nice write up

[ViRtUaLheretic]

Bumping this as it was about to hit the archives.
Im going to try and get this done in spring.

[steelcurtain]

Bumping this as it was about to hit the archives.
Im going to try and get this done in spring.

Thanks V

[VW MAFIA]

Those tsi intakes ar garbage, they have multiple problems with those flaps, but nice job

[jspirate]

Stopping to say thanks for this write-up

We took my mani off yesterday to replace injectors 2 and 3. The 2011 CC has a couple new additions. The most notable was a metal arm and rubber support that connects the underside of the mani to the engine block. THAT THING WAS A PAIN and we ended up cutting the rubber piece.

I apologize for not taking any pictures, but I was at a friends house and forgot my camera at home

[steelcurtain]

Stopping to say thanks for this write-up

We took my mani off yesterday to replace injectors 2 and 3. The 2011 CC has a couple new additions. The most notable was a metal arm and rubber support that connects the underside of the mani to the engine block. THAT THING WAS A PAIN and we ended up cutting the rubber piece.

I apologize for not taking any pictures, but I was at a friends house and forgot my camera at home

Glad it worked out for you. Thanks for sharing.

[Evo V]

I posted this in A3 forum but maybe this is better place to share. Here is how my TFSI looks at 105K miles. It was serviced by Audi mechanics untill 95K. I guess they never cleaned the intake.

[jspirate]

I posted this in A3 forum but maybe this is better place to share. Here is how my TFSI looks at 105K miles. It was serviced by Audi mechanics untill 95K. I guess they never cleaned the intake.

Holy cow! That looks like sh!t!!!

[Evo V]

Holy cow! That looks like sh!t!!!

Indeed it was. It took me 1hr per cylinder to clean it.

[defector]

I guess it would be obvious (or will be obvious) when I do this (I have 99,000 miles), but why do I need to remove the throttle body? I see no point in this unless it makes some other step easier.

Jim