TSI Intake Manifold Removal DIY + Valve Cleaning

[Evo V]

I guess it would be obvious (or will be obvious) when I do this (I have 99,000 miles), but why do I need to remove the throttle body? I see no point in this unless it makes some other step easier.

Jim

To remove intake manifold you need to remove throttle body first. I didn't know about the intake build up so I cleaned the throttle body first. There was a build up there too, preventing the opening/closing. Anyway after this you have to do TB addaptation with VAG-com.

[steelcurtain]

I see no point in this unless it makes some other step easier.

Jim

Bingo. It's a bitch with it on. Please report back if your successful. Post up if you have issues. GL

[Slimjimmn]

you guys all bitch about carbon buildup... try looking at a alh TDi with 60k on it and short trip driving ... ha

j/k

I just had one I cleaned at 42k miles and it was carboned up for sure

[Barn01]

Thanks for the DIY. Removed the manifold and cleaned the ports and valves. Went back together with no problems.

Any tips or tricks you would add to the DIY?

[ViRtUaLheretic]

steelcurtain I love you
cleaning my valves and installing my new intake manifold now

[steelcurtain]

steelcurtain I love you
cleaning my valves and installing my new intake manifold now

Nice! Did you remove the TB or leave it on?

[ViRtUaLheretic]

I removed it.
It looks like you have to remove the TB as two of the bolts are hidden behind it and would be damn near impossible to get to them without removing it.

[steelcurtain]

I removed it.
It looks like you have to remove the TB as two of the bolts are hidden behind it and would be damn near impossible to get to them without removing it.

My thoughts too.
You have no idea how many PMs I've received disputing that. Of course none of these people ha e actually performed the DIY.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

Removing the TB really isnt that bad once you get the TB pipe out.

Here are some pictures from my weekend excursion.
Car had 71k miles
VTA CC
w/m




Cylinder 1

Cylinder 2

Cylinder 3

Cylinder 4


Crankshaft bolt (24mm) used to turn the motor over to open/clsoe valves


CLEAN




Friend with a FSI motor helped me this weekend, he just about **** himself when he saw how clean my valves were.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

Also note that the FSI and TSI used different injector size o-rings and stuff, order the right replacement kit (found that out the hardway)

[Evo V]

Also note that the FSI and TSI used different injector size o-rings and stuff, order the right replacement kit (found that out the hardway)

Do you actually replaced the o-rings? I bought a set for all 4 injectors but mine were good so now I just have them sitting around. I might replace them when I clean the valves again @150K. Yours look pretty damn clean. Good job!

[ViRtUaLheretic]

From most of the threads I have read and people I have talked to say to go ahead and change them while you have it open.
Might as well why you got them out of the motor.

[toddhought]

Just had this done under warranty yesterday, car tossed the P2015 on me, and they did a full manifold replacement at the dealer. Inconvenient at the very least. But I like my mechanic, so I don't mind that much.

As a side note, how many people have started to call VW and get their attention on this one, like the cam followers on the FSI's?

[Evo V]

Just had this done under warranty yesterday, car tossed the P2015 on me, and they did a full manifold replacement at the dealer. Inconvenient at the very least. But I like my mechanic, so I don't mind that much.

As a side note, how many people have started to call VW and get their attention on this one, like the cam followers on the FSI's?

I believe this is a well known issue for both fsi and tsi engines. AoA is quiet and doesn't want to address it. Someone mentioned that they offer free cleaning on RS4 and R8 models.

[coderedcomputing]

Has anyone given any thought to using a 'product' of some type in the run-up to performing this DIY?

I know there are no products on the shelf that will magically clean the valves, but wondering if the following may help.

Start with your car at, say 50k miles. Add product X, let it clean, then change oil. At 55k miles do the same procedure again. At 60k miles you go in and clean the valves like the DIY... Would this help make the task any easier?

[kaban]

Has anyone given any thought to using a 'product' of some type in the run-up to performing this DIY?

I know there are no products on the shelf that will magically clean the valves, but wondering if the following may help.

Start with your car at, say 50k miles. Add product X, let it clean, then change oil. At 55k miles do the same procedure again. At 60k miles you go in and clean the valves like the DIY... Would this help make the task any easier?

I'm currently doing this with seafoam. I run 1/3 can of seafoam through the intake manifold before i do an oil change so every 5k miles or so.

[ViRtUaLheretic]

seafoam doesnt do ****

[defector]

You absolutely don't need to remove the throttle body. I didn't on my FSI engine (2008 VW Passat).

As stated on a different, separate thread, I also noticed no difference in performance after cleaning.

None.

Not worth the effort for me. It may be worth the effort on your engine.

Jim

[progrock]

First off, I had this issue at ~41k (P2015). I was out of my 36k warranty, and did not have an extra warranties.

With that said, I had the dealership replace my intake a little over 2 months ago. After arguing over the phone (over about a day and a half), the dealer did confirm that this problem was still warrantied (not sure if it was part of the drive train warranty, OR if it was a special case where this specific issue had an extended warranty).. wither way, the intake was replaced for free.

They did get me for $189 to do a valve cleaning while the intake was off. Not sure if they did a good job or not, but was OK with me considering I only paid for that and 2 test drives (YES, they charged me $12 a pop for test drives).

They also told me I needed new spark plugs, which I was about to put in myself, so I refused that service. I drove the car home 10 miles, it was misfiring pretty bad.

I broke my collar bone and the car was off the road for 2 months, but the other day I finally got around to doing the spark plugs... while they definitely needed to be changed, there was absolutely no change with the misfiring. It appeared to be a vacuum leak, so I brought it back to VW, figuring they screwed something up.

Anyway, after a lot of back and forth, VW is telling me its the coil packs. I'm skeptical that this is the only issue causing the misfire, but due to some back and forth over the last few days (they tried to tell me I need to do a Valve cleaning, and replace the spark plugs, as well as coils..... after 3 phone calls they finally realized the spark plugs were brand new, and that they did the valve cleaning 10 miles ago!)....

After some heated conversation, the dealer is now replacing my coils for half price (was ~250, they are charging me ~125). Given I could do the coils myself, but I already paid for the tow, and at least I'm getting half off.

I'm still skeptical that there are not other issues. My good friend, and mechanic, thinks it could be an issue with the PCV valve (I think VW calls it the crank case regulation valve). But time will tell, I should know later today whether or not it was just the coils.


I do have one question. In this photo: http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/x...l/IMG_0338.jpg

If you look below the red arrow, close to the bottom of the image, there appears to be a missing air house, or something similar. The dealer is telling me that's meant to just be open air on my car (my friend is skeptical).. can anyone confirm this either way? (I have a 2009 GTI, MKV TSI)


Thank you, and good luck to anyone else doing this. I would definitely check with your dealership to see if the replacement manifold and service is covered under warranty (after 36k, that is. It absolutely was for me..)

Bob

[ViRtUaLheretic]

I'm still skeptical that there are not other issues. My good friend, and mechanic, thinks it could be an issue with the PCV valve (I think VW calls it the crank case regulation valve). But time will tell, I should know later today whether or not it was just the coils.

The PCV doesn't go bad on the TSI, there was problems with the PCv on the FSi though.

I do have one question. In this photo: http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/x...l/IMG_0338.jpg

If you look below the red arrow, close to the bottom of the image, there appears to be a missing air house, or something similar. The dealer is telling me that's meant to just be open air on my car (my friend is skeptical).. can anyone confirm this either way? (I have a 2009 GTI, MKV TSI)


Thank you, and good luck to anyone else doing this. I would definitely check with your dealership to see if the replacement manifold and service is covered under warranty (after 36k, that is. It absolutely was for me..)

Bob

Assuming you are talking about the thing on the far right of the intake manifold? Thats just part of the casting, its not actually a hole.

[Evo V]

to progroc: I had missfire on couple cylinders after the cleaning due to small deposits that fell here and there during the manual cleaning. What I did is, I put a injector cleaner (or seafoam) into the gas tank and ran about a full tank of gas in couple of days. No more missfiring after that.

[progrock]

ViRtUaLheretic, I circled what I am referring to. It appears to be an actual hole, and after getting my car back from geting the intake manifold replaced, there was nothing attached to it. I think I might have noticed this earlier, and though ti was odd.. but I;m thinking that it may not have anything on it. (My friend is thinking there was just supposed to be an end cap... but he's not 100% sure). The dealers tells em its just supposed to be open air.. but I;ve learned not to trust the dealer at all.




Also, if the PCV problem does not occur on the TSI, is there anything else that may likely cause this. I'm just really skeptical that all 4 coils just happened to go bad right after this service, and there's nothing else messed up. Again, I'm sure I'll hear back from VW by tomorrow.. just, very skeptical. I'm kinda expecting a call back tomorrow with bad news.

Thanks,

Bob

[DasCC]

The red arrow is pointing at the engine removal lift point.

The circled area, from what I understand is normal for the CBFA engine code. Thats exactly how mine looks and ever other cbfa does. From what I've heard the CCTA engine code utilizes it I've never confirmed that as I've never seen a CCTA since I'm in California.



Sent from my iDevice

[ViRtUaLheretic]

ViRtUaLheretic, I circled what I am referring to. It appears to be an actual hole, and after getting my car back from geting the intake manifold replaced, there was nothing attached to it. I think I might have noticed this earlier, and though ti was odd.. but I;m thinking that it may not have anything on it. (My friend is thinking there was just supposed to be an end cap... but he's not 100% sure). The dealers tells em its just supposed to be open air.. but I;ve learned not to trust the dealer at all.




Also, if the PCV problem does not occur on the TSI, is there anything else that may likely cause this. I'm just really skeptical that all 4 coils just happened to go bad right after this service, and there's nothing else messed up. Again, I'm sure I'll hear back from VW by tomorrow.. just, very skeptical. I'm kinda expecting a call back tomorrow with bad news.

Thanks,

Bob

This is exactly what I was referring to, its part of the casting and does not actually go all the way through the intake manifold.
Dont believe me? try to jam a pipe cleaner in it, only the tip will fit (just for a second, just to see how it feels ).

[progrock]

Thank you. I was pretty sure that was normal, my friend/mechanic was saying he thought there wqas something there (guessing he's just worked on the other slightly different 2.0's, and just never encountered this one, that has it open air.

On the othe hand, I'll have to double check, there appeared to be vacuum presure from that spot... is there a possibility they put on the wrong intake manifold on my car, and the one on it is meant for a diferent version that does utilize this?

Just trying to figure out WTF was wrong with the car, it really seems like a vaxuum leak causing crazy misfiring, but the dealer was confident it was coils (needless to say, I don't trust the dealer)

[ViRtUaLheretic]

FSI intake manifold is different and wouldnt bolt up on your car.
See if you can tighten any of hte bolts down, might have something lose causing a leak.
Run some logs on the car to see what the underlying issue is.

[progrock]

Its currently at a VW dealership being serviced. I'm just very skeptical that my massive misfires are due to all 4 coils going bad at once... and the last thing that was done to the car (literally 10 miles ago) was replacing the intake manifold and a valve cleaning.. since then, the car has never ran without crazzy misfires.

Thanks again,

Bob

[progrock]

OK, finally heard back from the dealer, and I was definitely right in thinking "a day and ahalf is way too long to replace 4 coils"

Anyway, they replaced the coils at a discounted rate.. most likely realized "oh ****, that didn't fix anything"... so they ended up replaceing the intake manifold, AGAIN.

Supposively the car is running clean, they say there's a check engine on (I have that random fuel gauge dropping to 0 problem... ) but they want to charge me $!50 for another diagnosis, if they go any further.

Baswically, after all this, if the cars running good, I'm just getting it out of there, and to my friends shop... I trust them a lotmore.

Bob

[steelcurtain]

This all sounds shady. They prob had a air leak from the manifold bein removed causing all cyls to misfire. Doesn't take much. I know the hard way and was stranded for hours out of the state and in a massive storm. Fun times.

[progrock]

VERY shady... let alone the 3 wrong diagnosis... and the fact that "its definitely the coils".... "we did the coils, AND we also did the air intake, AGAIN, because it was awarrantied".... clearly the coils DID NOT fix the issue.

BUT, $110 for coils... what are they, like $20 a piece usually... I'm sure it won't hurt, and its cheap enough installed for me to be happy.

Bob

[steelcurtain]

VERY shady... let alone the 3 wrong diagnosis... and the fact that "its definitely the coils".... "we did the coils, AND we also did the air intake, AGAIN, because it was awarrantied".... clearly the coils DID NOT fix the issue.

BUT, $110 for coils... what are they, like $20 a piece usually... I'm sure it won't hurt, and its cheap enough installed for me to be happy.

Bob

Yep, 20-$25 for the red ones. Takes 15minutes to swap.

[irongrey]

OK, finally heard back from the dealer, and I was definitely right in thinking "a day and ahalf is way too long to replace 4 coils"

Anyway, they replaced the coils at a discounted rate.. most likely realized "oh ****, that didn't fix anything"... so they ended up replaceing the intake manifold, AGAIN.

Supposively the car is running clean, they say there's a check engine on (I have that random fuel gauge dropping to 0 problem... ) but they want to charge me $!50 for another diagnosis, if they go any further.

Baswically, after all this, if the cars running good, I'm just getting it out of there, and to my friends shop... I trust them a lotmore.

Bob

So how is your car running?

And what did it feel like to drive with the misfires? I have a persistent misfire right at 2700 rpms that no one can diagnose. I had it before having my intake manifold replaced and afterwards. And the coils and plugs and carbon clean. Here is a link to my ongoing saga (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...iccup-at-2750k).

[chuckster1]

I recently had my intake manifold replaced under warranty (My Wolfie is a CPO) and asked about the valve cleaning. Service manager said $400. Called me back after they started the manifold swap and he said because the valves weren't that bad and they already had the manifold off they would do it for $98. I gave the go ahead. I had 58K on my TSI so looks like I'm good for another 60K!

[theronin]

hooray for rezing a dead thread. but to OP (if you are still around) do you recommend gm top engine cleaner over say berrymans B12?

[steelcurtain]

hooray for rezing a dead thread. but to OP (if you are still around) do you recommend gm top engine cleaner over say berrymans B12?

I have no experience with berrymans do can't say. But you can't go wrong with the GM cleaner though. Great stuff. I didn't even use a whole can.