24v Quest for 550+HP experianced oppinions welcomed!

[joeeveryman87]

I just don't want a $6,000 paperweight later down the road. Decisions..decisions..

Exactly what i was worried about, i know alot of people on here say you can pull it off with stock internals, but what if its just a case by case thing, like you said i dont wanna have an expensive paper weight thats why i figured im just gonna do it strong the first time, and go beast mode on my VR6 lol.

Id say since your already planning on digging that deep into your motor, the question isnt why should you, its why wouldnt you replace all the internals and go forged?

[Black Ice]

Exactly what i was worried about, i know alot of people on here say you can pull it off with stock internals, but what if its just a case by case thing, like you said i dont wanna have an expensive paper weight thats why i figured im just gonna do it strong the first time, and go beast mode on my VR6 lol.

Id say since your already planning on digging that deep into your motor, the question isnt why should you, its why wouldnt you replace all the internals and go forged?

Well, it's mostly a cash flow issue, being in college full time and working part time. It took me a little time to save up to purchase the motor. The block and head are in pretty good shape. I plan to go turbo in the near 'future', but I really want to get the motor in my car because it's just sitting in my living room . I want to at least do rods, the pistons are forged and 400-450whp isn't really asking for too much from an R motor. I guess I'll just have to be patient, save up for the expensive ass rods and do it the right way the FIRST time.

[joeeveryman87]

dont we all just wanna be millionairs btw i would love to take that R cylinder head off your hands, just sayin

[Black Ice]

dont we all just wanna be millionairs btw i would love to take that R cylinder head off your hands, just sayin

HA! The funny thing is, I will spend the same amount of money on rods as I would a used R32 cylinder head.. these puppies aren't cheap AT ALL I'll keep you in touch though, I always wanted a sport-bike

[joeeveryman87]

HA! The funny thing is, I will spend the same amount of money on rods as I would a used R32 cylinder head.. these puppies aren't cheap AT ALL I'll keep you in touch though, I always wanted a sport-bike

haha WELL! im selling my bike, if you saw the picture she is a sexy bitch lol with many many ad-ons just sayin haha

[One Gray GLI]

rods aren't the problem, the pistons are, mostly because of the heat generated. (cracked ringlands are common)

[EFiNVR6]

Well do you have a 12v or 24v? either way 350whp is etremely easy to attain on a VR6 as youll see if you read through this thread at all

A simple Stage 2 kit from C2 is all you'd really need(very nice high quality kits from what im told), def no need for forged internals.

Id do a little more research though, check out the C2 site, maybe CTS(more expensive), im not sure about you but i researched this idea for over a year all over the internet, asking friends but most importanly the VWVORTEX forum theres all the info youll ever need on this forum......

I have a 24v i looked at the c2 kits and the kinetic's kits and i was thinking wouldn't it come out cheaper to make your own kit ? Yeah this forum has everything i just got lost after reading everything about the vrt since everyone is running a different setup.

[joeeveryman87]

I have a 24v i looked at the c2 kits and the kinetic's kits and i was thinking wouldn't it come out cheaper to make your own kit ? Yeah this forum has everything i just got lost after reading everything about the vrt since everyone is running a different setup.

No way man, the kit will definetly save you money, and not only that but it will alleviate alot of head ache, than if you were trying to find everything on your own. Im actually getting the C2 stage 3 kit, but i am gonna change out the rotomaster turbo for a Precision.

[One Gray GLI]

you can get the C2 kit with a 6265, IIRC, the r32 kits come with them, why wouldnt it be a option with the 24v FWD kits? just call em up.

[EFiNVR6]

thanks for the tips guys i am gonna give them a call sometime next week.

[jvlrancing]

So the real difference between the 2.8 head to the 3.2 is inlets and outlets?
I read back a page that the cams are the same?
The numbers stamped on my 2.8 head is the same as The R32 head is that rite?

[DannyLo]

you can get the C2 kit with a 6265, IIRC, the r32 kits come with them, why wouldnt it be a option with the 24v FWD kits? just call em up.

Usually they come with a 6165 journal (like mine) which is rated for only 10hp less than a 6265 which is billet. Billet would be nice, but this thing spools real fast without having to be.

I think C2 moved to rotomaster turbos though recently in an effort to try and make the kits more affordable, but i'm not sure.

[EFiNVR6]

Usually they come with a 6165 journal (like mine) which is rated for only 10hp less than a 6265 which is billet. Billet would be nice, but this thing spools real fast without having to be.

I think C2 moved to rotomaster turbos though recently in an effort to try and make the kits more affordable, but i'm not sure.

i was on the site today and they have it posted up that Rotomaster T67GJ comes with the kit so you guys still thinks its better to get the 6265 since i wouldn't have to worry about running the coolant lines to it?

[joeeveryman87]

i was on the site today and they have it posted up that Rotomaster T67GJ comes with the kit so you guys still thinks its better to get the 6265 since i wouldn't have to worry about running the coolant lines to it?

The C2 "2" kit that comes with the T67GJ Rotomaster i thought came with Journal bearings, and from my understanding they spool up mush faster than billet bearings do(didnt know they were rated for less HP though...), and when your talking about a big turbo i think id want sm thats gonna spool up quicker.

But that all really dosnt matter since your HP goals are lower, you dont really need a turbo that big, therefor you wont have has much of a problem with turbo lag.

If it were me id swap out the Rotomaster for a Garrett or Precision(which i am doing, if you go with a C2 "kit")for a little more money, yes, but your gonna get what you pay for (reliability)

[One Gray GLI]

no such thing as a billet bearing, you mean ball bearing and journal bearing, journal being the slower of the two. My billet 6262 hits full boost (18psi) @ around 3500 rpm. You don't want the turbo spoiling too soon or it'll run outta breath up top, as well as just roasting tires, I went through that with my EIP kit.

[joeeveryman87]

no such thing as a billet bearing, you mean ball bearing and journal bearing, journal being the slower of the two. My billet 6262 hits full boost (18psi) @ around 3500 rpm. You don't want the turbo spoiling too soon or it'll run outta breath up top, as well as just roasting tires, I went through that with my EIP kit.

you right i did mean "ball bearing" haha sorry its been in interesting morning already at work lol i was looking into getting the precision 6262 and im told by a distributer that journal bearing are much quicker with spool up than ball bearings(hence why there more expensive) and that journal bearing are better for larger turbos for that exact reason, it reduces turbo lag on large turbos, so to me that sounds alot better.....dosnt it?

[Snitches Get Stitches]

You got it reversed brotha!! A bb turbo will spool up sooner than a journal bearning turbo of the same size. Are you referring to a billet wheel'd turbo? That is the new tech for turbos and supposedly will spool quicker.

[One Gray GLI]

you have it reversed a ball bearing, billet 6262 will spool probably 2-300rpm sooner than it's journal bearing counterpart, granted the hotside is the same and such.

[joeeveryman87]

oooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhh boy!!!!!! hahahaha man my bad guys apparently i am just way out of it today, gettin everything all backasswords, maybe i need to just sleep it off you are both right, snitches and one gray! im just being dumb today lol
sooo check this out hope i get this right.....

-Precision 6262
-680hp capable turbo 62mm PTE Billet Compressor Wheel, 62mm Turbine Wheel
-T3 4bolt .63 or should i go .82AR????
-Ported T04S Housing
-ANNNNNNND the MORE expensive BETTER BALL BEARINGS lol an extra $540.00

im sorry if my confusion, confused anyone checking out this thread, i had a dumb moment please forgive me lol

[Jefnes3]

Never put a T3 turbine on a VR6.



And NO NEED for ported cover on Precision 62mm compressor. (on a VR6)

Just my opinion.


-Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport

[24valves_of_Fury]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post72769101

[joeeveryman87]

Never put a T3 turbine on a VR6.



And NO NEED for ported cover on Precision 62mm compressor. (on a VR6)

Just my opinion.


-Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport

May i ask why you are so against the T3 housing, and ported compressor cover, inparticular on a VR6? just curious....
Would you suggest a T4 V-Band inlet and discharge?? or T4 devided inlet and V-Band discharge??

this is exactly why i started this thread thanks guys!

[joeeveryman87]

How about this guys straight from the precision website pick it apart for me and tell me yay or nay......

Street and Race Turbocharger - PT6765

HP Rating: 755
We know you want to be the best both on the track and off. Whether you're a diehard racer or just looking to boost your daily driver's performance, Precision Turbo and Engine has what you need. For exceptional power and unbeatable technology at an affordable price, PTE can help you find the perfect turbocharger for your unique setup.

PTE's PT6765 Turbocharger features the following:
• 67mm inducer compressor wheel
• Compressor cover options:
- "E" compressor cover 3.0" inlet/2.0" outlet
- "S" compressor cover 4.0" inlet/2.5" outlet
- "Ported S" compressor cover 4.0" inlet/2.5" outlet
- "H" compressor cover 4.0" inlet/3" outlet
- "Ported H" compressor cover 4.0" inlet/3" outlet
• 65mm, 76 trim turbine wheel
• Turbine housing options:
- T3 .63 or .82 A/R with 4 bolt (2.5") discharge
- T3 .63 A/R with 5 bolt discharge (with or without wastegate hole)
- T3 .63 or .82 A/R with 3" V-Band discharge
- V-Band inlet .82 A/R with V-Band discharge
- T4 Tangential .58, .68, .81, or .96 A/R with 3 5/8" V-Band discharge
- T4 Divided .84, 1.0, 1.15, or 1.32 A/R with 3 5/8" V-Band discharge
- Mitsubishi .63 A/R
- Buick .63 or .85 A/R
- GMC Syclone/Typhoon .85 A/R
• Hydrodynamic 360° thrust bearing system

[joeeveryman87]

also this is the site

http://www.precisionturbo.net/Street...r---PT6765/241

it cost $1,099.99 from them(lil pricey)

[Jefnes3]

May i ask why you are so against the T3 housing, and ported compressor cover, inparticular on a VR6? just curious....
Would you suggest a T4 V-Band inlet and discharge?? or T4 devided inlet and V-Band discharge??

this is exactly why i started this thread thanks guys!

In my opinion:
A T3 turbine config is a bit small for decent top end on these bigger motors: 2.8L +

GT35R with a 1.06 is ok. BUT the 1.06 is only available on the Garrett GT turbos.

T3 .82 will have you fully spooled before 3000 and choke up top. (above ~5500 or so)

Once you start turning up the boost the torque curve will get more peaky.
Mid range torque will rise with boost but power at redline does not rise by the same amt.

Turbo choice is about the ~shape of the torque curve. I simply like my turbo cars able to maintain near flat torque to redline, this makes for bigger turbine side specs, almost oversize in other's view.


-Jeffrey Atwood

[joeeveryman87]

In my opinion:
A T3 turbine config is a bit small for decent top end on these bigger motors: 2.8L +

GT35R with a 1.06 is ok. BUT the 1.06 is only available on the Garrett GT turbos.

T3 .82 will have you fully spooled before 3000 and choke up top. (above ~5500 or so)

Once you start turning up the boost the torque curve will get more peaky.
Mid range torque will rise with boost but power at redline does not rise by the same amt.

Turbo choice is about the ~shape of the torque curve. I simply like my turbo cars able to maintain near flat torque to redline, this makes for bigger turbine side specs, almost oversize in other's view.


-Jeffrey Atwood

So the Precision that i listed 2post up is no good you think?

[Snitches Get Stitches]

Its not that its not a good product, its just not the best choice for our motors. Boost comes on too early and chokes your top end out. In my opinion, a larger hotside allows boost to come on above 3500rpms, allowing you to save your drivetrain from tourque spikes and helping traction. It also allows you to drive the car easier out of boost, while still allowing you to make that power in a useful spot in higher revs. I chose a GT 3582R T4 with 0.68AR in precision housings, as garrett doesnt make the 0.68. Im looking for full boost by 35-3800rpms and allowing me to rev to 8200, with the appropriate valvetrain upgrades. Its all about where you want boost to come on. Full boost below 3k rpms is usually accompanied by no traction and breaking axles or trans in the process. Most exhaust manifolds for our motors come in a T4 flange anyway.

[turbo4motion]

My billet 6262 hits full boost (18psi) @ around 3500 rpm. You don't want the turbo spoiling too soon or it'll run outta breath up top, as well as just roasting tires, I went through that with my EIP kit.

Have you had it dynoed since you changed your turbo/manifold etc? Would be good to see a comparison between the torque curves with the different turbos.

[One Gray GLI]

Yep, but not on the same dyno. :/ I'll post the two after I get home from work though. One was on a dynojet, other was on a dyno dynamics.

[Norwegian-VR6]

Singel clutch "doesnt matter what brand or stage crap" will not hold the torque you are looking for over time.

Get a 6265 T4 0.68 or a T4 0.82
GT35R T3 1.06 would reach your 550 whp goal.

[.SLEEPYDUB.]

550whp is retarded on a FWD...just save the hassle

[joeeveryman87]

550whp is retarded on a FWD...just save the hassle

why would it be retarted??? sure it wont be a stop light to stop light car but she'll be a beast from 40mph and up, i bought the car for 6,000 mint condition from a freind, with the silverstone gray paint, which i love! and only had 80k miles on it, and its a mk4 love that body style! id be payin twice if not three times that much for a R32, and just so i can have awd? Nah ill invest some power and money into this very inexpensive fwd

but trust me i do understand where your coming from, theres just no way ill sell what i already own, then pay $17,000 for basically the same car with awd

[GTIVRon]

......but she'll be a beast from 40mph and up.........

Try closer to the range of 3rd or probably 4th gear before you find traction. With 500+whp you won't be able to get on it in 2nd and maintain traction. And unless you are on some really sticky >235 sized tires 3rd won't be much better.

[PhReE]

Try closer to the range of 3rd or probably 4th gear before you find traction. With 500+whp you won't be able to get on it in 2nd and maintain traction. And unless you are on some really sticky >235 sized tires 3rd won't be much better.

Yeah it's more like a beast from ~70mph and up.

[joeeveryman87]

Try closer to the range of 3rd or probably 4th gear before you find traction. With 500+whp you won't be able to get on it in 2nd and maintain traction. And unless you are on some really sticky >235 sized tires 3rd won't be much better.

Never the less, have you all seen TomTom's build thread virtually almost the same goal with the same car i am shooting for, and he loved it and the guy who bought the car from him loves it aswell, no regrets.

......but you guys would suggest that i ditch the already paid for car i OWN, that has TT cams, catback exaust, suspension, LW pullies, cold air, boser hood extension, R32 skirts/Modified R32 front bumber with 1 bar rieger grill molded to it, deleted hatchback handle........(taking breath).......so that i can spend 17,000 on a used stock R32......thats just crazy talk guys, im sorry my goal isnt necessarily to be the quickest car from 0-60, this is a hobby, i love this car im just attempting to squeez all i can out of this car, thats where ill get my satisfaction, either way shes gonna be a sexy bitch and is gonna be one fast mofo at speed, thanks guys!

Now back on topic i need some oppinions on turbos ive heard many different things so far with regaurds to stuff like getting just a full on garret, or getting a precision turbine with a garret hotside??, is there anything that everyone agrees on ...