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    Thread: 2012 Scion iQ priced from $15,995*

    1. Member Burnin8r's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 08:10 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by Cutandpaste View Post

      Then again, these micro cars get pretty crappy MPG considering the size and weight. They get 30-35 MPG. I checked out the Fiat 500 and while neat/cute, the price (over 20k for the model I would get) and MPG (32 or so MPG) make my head scratch. Makes no sense to me.
      ]
      actually manual trans 500s are returning 40+ mpg in real world driving conditions.

      if you are looking at the auto version then you should ask yourself if you are more concerned with convenience than economy.

      offering the iQ with no manual trans is ****ing ponderous.

    2. Member eunos94's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 08:26 AM #102
      If Toyota could sell the Aygo for $7499 stripped to the bones and nicely equipped with automatic, A/C and premium sound (mp3 cd player) for $8999 or less. It could succeed. Now if they could only do that pricing with the Yaris they'd sell as many as they could build.

      However the Aygo has a more playful attitude in it's corporate face. It has a name built for a cool ad campaign similar to the old "hi" Neon ads. Has potential if they also include the 3 door (the $7499 one charge $500 more for the more door).

      However if they renamed it something oh.. like.. hmm... maybe.. Tercel? It could have more potential with Toyota for lifers. I know the Yaris would technically be the Tercel but who besides us knows that?
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    3. Banned Fritz27's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 09:00 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnin8r View Post
      actually manual trans 500s are returning 40+ mpg in real world driving conditions.

      if you are looking at the auto version then you should ask yourself if you are more concerned with convenience than economy.

      offering the iQ with no manual trans is ****ing ponderous.
      A manual transmission probably can't fit given the size constraints. Same reason why the Smart doesn't have a manual.

    4. Member eunos94's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 09:28 AM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      A manual transmission probably can't fit given the size constraints. Same reason why the Smart doesn't have a manual.

      It's offered with a manual in the ROW. With three engine choices. A 1 liter, 1.3 liter and even a 1.4 liter diesel. Only the petrols are offered with the CVT.

      Truth be told a computer controlled CVT is an ideal match with such a small car. It has less parasitic drag (retains more power) and can be optimized for economy, power, large loads etc. They are really clever little boxes. The smart would be infinetly better with a CVT than it's overly balky single clutch automatic manual which in fact takes up MORE room than a straight manual would have.

      I remember reading an article in Autobild when the smart first came out (old version) where they drove a pre production manual version. It took 8 seconds off the 0-60 time of the 40hp diesel but Mercedes decided it didn't click with it's image of modern high tech effortless city living. So they ditched it. I read another article where they estimated that the 70hp gen 2 smart fortwo with a proper 5 speed should be hitting sub 10 second 0-62 times. With a CVT I'm sure it would do the same.

      I'd have bought that smart. 0-60 in 10 seconds, 45+mpg due to infinite gearing in a small package that could be made to handle with just the addition of a rear roll bar.
      Last edited by eunos94; 07-15-2011 at 09:37 AM.
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    5. Member GTRaavv's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 09:48 AM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by Cutandpaste View Post
      I understand the pricing and the engineering behind it. The IQ is a packaging marvel. It is still hard for me to understand that it will be 15-20k. One reason the Versa sells so well is its not uppity, its cheap, basic and people want/need that.

      Then again, these micro cars get pretty crappy MPG considering the size and weight. They get 30-35 MPG. I checked out the Fiat 500 and while neat/cute, the price (over 20k for the model I would get) and MPG (32 or so MPG) make my head scratch. Makes no sense to me.

      Even today, the Beetle has gotten now more expensive and more uppity. I think its stupid. The Beetle should be IMO, a bare bones car for people that want something different and cheap at around 10-12k.

      I really was interested in the IQ until I saw pricing and the MPG. I do love this though
      Yeah the whole microcar class in the USA just doesn't seem to make sense yet. One would think it would slot in below the subcompact class in price and offer similar, if not slightly better mpg. If it's not bringing the cutesy factor like the MINI and 500, I just don't see Americans taking one over an almost comparably-equipped subcompact or even a stripper compact. I understand manufacturers need to make a profit, but if there really is so little room in the sub-$20,000 new car market in the US, then think smarter about it. Probably the reason why GM has delayed the Spark for so long - if they can't price it at the minimum $3,000 less than the Sonic the why bother bringing it over. The Versa may be a turdbox, but it's been the only good attempt at solving this situation. If only Nissan would make a competitive Sentra range, it would be the perfect plan for handling this market.

    6. 07-15-2011 01:49 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      A manual transmission probably can't fit given the size constraints. Same reason why the Smart doesn't have a manual.
      There are no transmission constraints. The Aston Martin Cygnet comes w/ a choice of a CVT or 6-speed. Hence, the IQ should be able to have a manual tranny.


      See.

      BTW, this is an awesome color:


    7. 07-15-2011 05:51 PM #107
      I guess at some point, there was a supercharger available.

      But, then again, none of the current Scion line is aspirated.

    8. Member bc's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 06:48 PM #108
      Power Enterprises makes a supercharger kit for the 1.33L iQs.

      Only problem is that every time I open their website my wallet jumps off the table and runs out the door.

      http://power-enterprise.co.jp/rotrex/rotrex_iq1300.html

      16k is cheap compared to how much the car is selling for in the rest of the world.

      I understand your complaints about the no m/t thing though...


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      07-15-2011 07:35 PM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by eunos94 View Post
      If Toyota could sell the Aygo for $7499 stripped to the bones and nicely equipped with automatic, A/C and premium sound (mp3 cd player) for $8999 or less. It could succeed. Now if they could only do that pricing with the Yaris they'd sell as many as they could build.
      ?
      If Toyota would sell that Aygo here for 7500$, I'd be a instant buyer.

      Forgetting the stupid acceleration issue.

      You get great toyota reliability, durability, excellent mpgs, and a super price...!

      You are right they would sell tons of these things in the USA.

      Considering the economy now is the time they should offer just that.

    10. Member eunos94's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 07:41 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by bc View Post
      Power Enterprises makes a supercharger kit for the 1.33L iQs.

      Only problem is that every time I open their website my wallet jumps off the table and runs out the door.

      http://power-enterprise.co.jp/rotrex/rotrex_iq1300.html
      Less than 25% hp bump isn't really impressive for a supercharger... and really unimpressive for THAT price. Does it come with a rape kit so that the police can track them down after?
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    11. Member mobile363's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 07:45 PM #111
      what is my incentive to buy this over a bigger car? I dont think small cars are necessary. Especially not for me. But even if you need a small car in the city, why is the IQ taking market share? Give us small electric appliances. Ride a motorbike. Or take public transit. Im sorry but the only people who will buy this stupid car are people who want an image on wheels.

    12. Member bmann's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 07:54 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by eunos94 View Post
      If Toyota could sell the Aygo for $7499 stripped to the bones and nicely equipped with automatic, A/C and premium sound (mp3 cd player) for $8999 or less. It could succeed. Now if they could only do that pricing with the Yaris they'd sell as many as they could build.

      However the Aygo has a more playful attitude in it's corporate face. It has a name built for a cool ad campaign similar to the old "hi" Neon ads. Has potential if they also include the 3 door (the $7499 one charge $500 more for the more door).

      However if they renamed it something oh.. like.. hmm... maybe.. Tercel? It could have more potential with Toyota for lifers. I know the Yaris would technically be the Tercel but who besides us knows that?
      A new car for $7500? Are you sure you aren't thinking of a 5 to 6 year old used car?
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    13. Member bmann's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 07:55 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by mobile363 View Post
      what is my incentive to buy this over a bigger car? I dont think small cars are necessary. Especially not for me. But even if you need a small car in the city, why is the IQ taking market share? Give us small electric appliances. Ride a motorbike. Or take public transit. Im sorry but the only people who will buy this stupid car are people who want an image on wheels.
      The same could be said of people who buy cars larger than they need.
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    14. Member mobile363's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 08:01 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      The same could be said of people who buy cars larger than they need.
      well, i dont think so really. sure 99% of the time I dont have passengers in my car. But lots of times i put big things in my car. If you have this small car, you will have a hard time fitting your groceries in. Will likely require a second car.

      I guess though if i did have a lot of money, i could have this car for driving into the city. In that way it almost seems like a luxury class car. I cant see how people can get by with this as their only car. I mean, what can actually fit in the back? Not much!

    15. Member per-diems's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 08:07 PM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by Ben.Reilly View Post
      You have to have a low IQ, to buy that car!


    16. Member eunos94's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 08:09 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by mobile363 View Post
      well, i dont think so really. sure 99% of the time I dont have passengers in my car. But lots of times i put big things in my car. If you have this small car, you will have a hard time fitting your groceries in. Will likely require a second car.

      I guess though if i did have a lot of money, i could have this car for driving into the city. In that way it almost seems like a luxury class car. I cant see how people can get by with this as their only car. I mean, what can actually fit in the back? Not much!

      If it's only you in the car 99% of the time then I imagine it's mostly you going shopping. So why the hell do you need all that room for groceries? The seats fold down and there is ample room for several weeks worth of groceries for a family of 4.
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      07-15-2011 08:12 PM #117
      I do think a lighter interior would help the car feel nicer/bigger inside.
      Maybe a two tone interior like the old Aveo?

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    18. Member mobile363's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 08:14 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by eunos94 View Post
      If it's only you in the car 99% of the time then I imagine it's mostly you going shopping. So why the hell do you need all that room for groceries? The seats fold down and there is ample room for several weeks worth of groceries for a family of 4.
      well yes, but i moved 90% of my belongings when i moved into my condo. Didn't need to rent or borrow a truck. I also buy furniture and bring it home in my car. I recently drove 3 hours to an ikea and bought stuff and brought it home. its the little stuff like that.

      and i have gone off with 3 passengers and luggage to the airport. That cant be done in an IQ. So yes, IQ is clearly for people with IQ or no friends. Sorry. I would love one. if my life was boring and straight forward.

    19. Member TooFitToQuit's Avatar
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      07-15-2011 09:40 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by bmann View Post
      A new car for $7500? Are you sure you aren't thinking of a 5 to 6 year old used car?
      Versa 1.6S models were selling for $7900 around here brand new.
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      07-15-2011 09:54 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by MustacheGT View Post
      Versa 1.6S models were selling for $7900 around here brand new.
      America needs this kind of price point, NOW!

      It would be nice to see more than one model at that price of course.

      See the old way of thinking the other poster doesn't realize that it is not 1995 or 2003 anymore....
      The economy for the masses is terrible, I'd argue it is the "Great Recession" , sure the rich can continue to buy as they always have but most people do not have the high quality jobs or the ability to get the credit they once would have a decade ago or more, if many folks are looking at buying new the price MUST be lower, significantly lower in the years to come. 7500 or 8k seems about right for new entry level new cars today.

    21. 07-15-2011 10:41 PM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by phinney View Post
      America needs this kind of price point, NOW!

      It would be nice to see more than one model at that price of course.

      See the old way of thinking the other poster doesn't realize that it is not 1995 or 2003 anymore....
      The economy for the masses is terrible, I'd argue it is the "Great Recession" , sure the rich can continue to buy as they always have but most people do not have the high quality jobs or the ability to get the credit they once would have a decade ago or more, if many folks are looking at buying new the price MUST be lower, significantly lower in the years to come. 7500 or 8k seems about right for new entry level new cars today.
      From a consumer standpoint, there has been no indications of a mass movement to the subcompact segment or lower. Say what you will, recession, gas prices, and all other factors, compact/midsize/crossover have still dominated the bulk of purchase decisions.

      From the standpoint of the automaker, profit is razor thin as it is on these cars, if any. Keep dreaming for the massive price drop (maybe you can wait for Tata to enter the US market).

    22. Member eunos94's Avatar
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      07-16-2011 12:46 AM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by joe97 View Post
      From a consumer standpoint, there has been no indications of a mass movement to the subcompact segment or lower. Say what you will, recession, gas prices, and all other factors, compact/midsize/crossover have still dominated the bulk of purchase decisions.

      From the standpoint of the automaker, profit is razor thin as it is on these cars, if any. Keep dreaming for the massive price drop (maybe you can wait for Tata to enter the US market).

      You're not wrong but you're not right either. There have been a few very strong indicators of people moving down when purchasing cars. It's moving down to the used car market and not the new market. Which is why dealerships are clamoring for used cars and why the used market has sky rocketed over the last year.

      Companies properly positioned to take advantage of this segment i.e. lower priced new cars will clean up nicely but there has to be enough incentive to stay with new over used besides a nicer smelling car.

      The Fiesta isn't that car. A lot of adults think it's too childish. A lot of children think it's "a Ford" and really want something with a Lexus, BMW or Audi badge. Not a... (say it all whiney and sour) Forrrrrd.

      Not suggesting that Lexus needs a price leader I'm suggesting that people don't want to pay $17,000+ for a really small car when that same money buys them the badge/power/size/image they with not enough of a differential in mpg, perceived maintenance costs etc...

      However when you start looking at the $10,000 and under market on fleaBay the pickings get pretty slim and suddenly you're thinking.... hmmmm 7 year old Corolla with 120,000 miles or brand new Versa. Suddenly that plain jane car is looking damn good. With a car as large as the Versa many don't see the point in spending more and getting less even if they do get more techno gadgetry, mpg or some other cleverness.

      I'm suggesting another niche that Toyota, Suzuki and even Honda could potentially slot into and thats the $7500 to $10,000 bracket. It's an untapped niche with loads of potential. It may not make you a lot of money up front but the back end is gonna be totally badass when the economy recovers and it WILL. Those same bottom feeders will now want to trade in that car and move up the ladder. They are coming to you for your service. They can be your customers for life providing you don't F it up.

      However to capture your dinner you either need to forage blindly through the woods looking for edibles or you can find the right bait. The worm baits the fish the fish baits the bear. Now you can keep warm from the fur, full from the meat and have cool ass weapons to fight off your enemies from the bones.

      Feels like everyone is foraging when they should be digging in the dirt to find that worm.
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    23. Member bc's Avatar
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      07-16-2011 07:53 AM #123
      that price is without rape kit.

      I was scheduled to get the S/C installed but the earthquake happened and priorities were switched.

    24. Member rimtrim's Avatar
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      07-17-2011 01:06 AM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by eunos94 View Post
      I'm suggesting another niche that Toyota, Suzuki and even Honda could potentially slot into and thats the $7500 to $10,000 bracket. It's an untapped niche with loads of potential. It may not make you a lot of money up front but the back end is gonna be totally badass when the economy recovers and it WILL. Those same bottom feeders will now want to trade in that car and move up the ladder. They are coming to you for your service. They can be your customers for life providing you don't F it up.
      It pains me a little bit when I agree with our friend Mr. Strom, but since somebody else is backing me up here too...I do think there's some truth to this. While it's true that new-car buyers are not flocking to subcompacts, it's also true that we've lost 3 million new-car buyers per year since 2007! Most of us don't really think about those numbers, but that's crazy! All of those people didn't stop driving, they are buying something, and it's mostly used cars. That, in turn, has driven used prices way up.

      I've always been fascinated by cheap cars, and a few years ago, the argument against them was that used cars were so plentiful and cheap that it made no sense for automakers to offer cheap cars in the US. At the time, that was sort of true, but it seems to be becoming less true by the month.

      Now, when you start talking about $7500 for a new car...it's hard to imagine how that could be done in the US. Safety and pollution requirements are much higher now than they were at the time stuff like the Excel and Yugo were introduced. In a way, it's amazing car prices have stayed as low as they are, with all the extra equipment that's been added just to meet regulations (How much does an air bag cost? How much do TEN of them cost?)

      The other thing is that 99% of Americans still will not buy a car without A/C or a radio, and probably 80% wouldn't consider a manual trans. Even in cheap used cars, people still want the A/C and the radio to work, and many want an automatic. So, you have to hit those marks in order to sell in this country. Nissan managed to squeak the new Versa in under $12K with A/C and radio, which is really quite a feat, and apparently the car does feel like kind of a tin can because of it.

      So, how much lower can they go? Maybe a Chinese or Indian car that just barely squeaks through with a ~3-star crash rating? The Dacia Logan (could that really sell for any less than a Versa?)

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      07-17-2011 01:46 AM #125
      This is a niche low-volume cutsey offering, not a serious attempt at a cheap ultra-compact super efficient city car. It isn't that efficient and it isn't cheap.

      Just a novelty, shouldn't have even brought it over.

      I'd much rather have a Fiat 500 for $16,000.
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