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New Camry key to Toyota rebound as Hyundai strikes with Sonata

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#1 ·
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TOKYO (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp., to make its earnings target this year, needs the new Camry to wrest back market share from Hyundai Motor Co.'s Sonata sedan.

The Camry, the best-selling car in the U.S., has lost ground to the Sonata, with Hyundai raising its U.S. output and surpassing the Camry in May for the first time.

"Sonata became a very honorable contender in the market," Yoshimi Inaba, Toyota's North American chairman, said in a July 12 interview. "We do have good respect for the model, and the sales figures show it's increasing quite a bit."

U.S. sales of Camry last year dropped 31 percent to 327,804 compared with deliveries in 2007, Toyota's best-ever year, while Honda Motor Corp.'s Accord sales also dropped 28 percent to 282,530 in the period.

Both models are approaching the end of their current product cycles.

Sales of the Sonata, revamped in January 2010, surged 35 percent to 196,623 last year. The 2011 Sonata's overall design quality is rated "among the best" by J.D. Power & Associates and earned a "Top Safety Pick" award from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

'Paying attention'

Until a few years ago, Toyota's Camry and Honda's Accord "defined" the midsize segment in the U.S. for at least a decade, said Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of auto researcher Edmunds.com in Santa Monica, Calif.

"But Hyundai has really stepped up their game, and Toyota's been paying attention."

The next version of the Camry will have a more contemporary design and improved performance and handling, President Akio Toyoda told U.S. dealers last month in Las Vegas.

The new model will go on sale in the latter part of the year. Toyota's current Camry, last refreshed in March 2006, gets up to 32 miles per gallon in highway driving in the U.S., compared with the Sonata's 35 mpg and Honda's 34 mpg.

With Hyundai's improvements in design and fuel efficiency, sales of the Sonata have jumped 29 percent to 115,014 units this year through June, while the Camry has dropped 4.4 percent to 147,469 in the U.S.

Restricted output after the March 11 earthquake in Japan has also contributed to the decline in Camry sales.

Camry vs Sonata

Hyundai didn't have to slow production after the quake because its Japan-based suppliers' plants aren't located in the affected areas, according to the company.

As a result, Sonata outsold Camry in May for the first time, according to Edmunds.com.

While both the Sonata and Camry sold in the U.S. are built locally, the weak Korean currency relative to the dollar benefits Hyundai when it repatriates profits.

The yen, on the other hand, has hurt Toyota by gaining about 10 percent over the past year. The Japanese currency this week climbed to as high as 78.50 yen per dollar, the strongest since March 17.

The 2011 Camry is currently priced from $20,195, compared with the Sonata's $19,395 starting price tag.

Camry -- which is the Anglicized spelling of "kanmuri," meaning "crown" in Japanese -- accounted for about a fifth of U.S. sales at Toyota last year.

'Ambitious' rivals

Defending its lead will be more difficult given stiffer competition from Hyundai, Ford Motor Co., and an "ambitious" Volkswagen AG, said Tadashi Usui, an analyst at Moody's K.K. in Tokyo.

Sales of Ford's Fusion sedan have jumped 18 percent this year through June, outselling the Accord. Volkswagen, aiming to topple Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker by 2018, will start selling a Tennessee-built Passat sedan as early as September.

"I'm not necessarily optimistic that the new Camry will help Toyota regain market share," Usui said. With a drop in demand for pick-up trucks, Toyota is more dependent now on its best-selling Camry, along with Lexus luxury models to boost earnings, he said.

Moody's Investors Service lowered its debt rating on Toyota in June, putting it below Japan's sovereign grade for the first time, citing the automaker's weakened ability to restore previous profit levels.

Toyota expects to earn 280 billion yen ($3.52 billion) in net income this fiscal year, compared with 1.7 trillion yen in the year ended March 2008.

Market share

Helped by the new Camry, Toyota's market share will rise to 15 percent in the six months ending in December, from 12.8 percent in the first half of the year, according to consulting company IHS Automotive, based in Englewood, Colo.

Still, Toyota's share will stagnate at that level over the next three years because of strong competition, said IHS analyst Masatoshi Nishimoto in Tokyo. "Toyota will not recover its 16-17 percent market share from before the financial crisis," he said.

Honda, which will likely introduce its updated Accord sedan next year, will also remain at about 11 percent market share through 2014, slightly up from 10.6 percent last year, according to IHS.

Hyundai, including affiliate Kia Motors Corp., will rise to at least 8.5 percent in the period, from 7.7 percent in 2010.

"We recognize that the Korean models are very competitive because of their good quality and affordable price," said Keitaro Yamamoto, a spokesman for Honda in Tokyo. "Before, it was Accord versus Camry, but it's definitely becoming Accord versus Camry versus Sonata."

'Dependability'

While analysts cite Hyundai's improvements in styling as a factor for its growth, design may not be as important as performance.

"People buying a Camry aren't looking to make a statement," Anwyl said. "They're looking for dependability."

The new Camry is Toyota's first major full-model change since last year's recalls of more than 10 million vehicles for flaws linked to unintended acceleration.

Following the recalls, Toyoda formed a global quality committee to tackle defects. In the U.S., the carmaker hired additional engineers at its technical center in Ann Arbor, Mich., giving the facility a bigger role in developing models for the American market.

"If there are any lingering concerns on Toyota's vehicle safety, this is a good opportunity to close that chapter," Anwyl said.



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#3 ·
if their new camry is a reskin of their old camry good luck :rolleyes:
 
#11 ·
I agree that the new Malibu and the new Fusion are the real competition that Toyota needs to be looking out for. Although it has many good attributes, the Sonata is to some degree selling on trendy style, and a style that IMO will start looking dated by the end of next year (Optima will look fresh for years to come).
 
#5 ·
I just spent 4000 miles in a 2011 Sonata and I have to say that it is a damn nice car. It was a rental, so nothing special and the base model at ~$21000 and I would buy one if I needed a 4 door sedan. Its a very nice place to be and with an average speed of 67 mph (speedo touched 90 mph cruise several times) over the 4000 miles, it still pulled 34 mpg average. Very very nice place to be. More than enough room for 6'4" me, good room in the back seat and a ton of room in the trunk. I understand that the styling is hit or miss but it grew on me. The best part is that it is not boring looking. the Camry and Accord put me to sleep. At the price, the Sonata crushes the CamCords.
 
#6 ·
I've put close to 11,000 on my Sonata Turbo and I simply love it. Fast, quiet, and good quality throughout. The interior quality and fit/finish is well ahead of my mother-in-law's '10 Camry LE.

I sure as hell hope that Toyota doesn't something about the interior on the new Camry.
 
#8 ·
The only real difference between the Camry and the Sonata is the styling . Although it appears that the fairly good hyundai reliability may be suffering of late after all low prices mean they have to cut costs somewhere.

I've been able to drive Hyundai twins the Sonata and the Optima, and while they are nice family sedans I don't really see them as being any better than the typical Camry or Accord at all. I also found the front seats in the Hyundai twins to be very uncomfortable as the seat backs pushed against my spine in an unnatural way.

I think most of the Hyundai hype is just that hype perpetuated by a very effective marketing campaign which is fine but in the end I think the consumer will start to realize that Hyundai/Kia is just a copy of the better original Toyota.

I think Toyota will regain its top spot in the minds of consumers in the near future.
 
#16 ·
Strangely I'm looking forward to the new Camry and a potential (?) re-crowning.

Generally speaking Camry and Sonata owners make rational decisions driven by practicality and numbers, as outlined in their consumer report subscriptions...
Supplier delivery notwithstanding, a cheaper price tag for better gas mileage is a no brainer to this type of buyer.

Neither car will ever be my cup of tea but I'll watch from the sidelines...
 
#24 ·
You know if I made crap cars for 30 years and I watched the other guys, hired their ex employees, use their methods then finally make some good cars with some good styling which are finally well received, I'd be humble. I wouldn't crap all over the other guys who led the way all these years.:rolleyes:
Well I hope you pay the same respect to the American automakers, Mr. Toyoda :D
 
#27 ·
You know if I made crap cars for 30 years and I watched the other guys, hired their ex employees, use their methods then finally make some good cars with some good styling which are finally well received, I'd be humble. I wouldn't crap all over the other guys who led the way all these years.:rolleyes:

. :laugh:

Bing!:D

No there is no shame or humility today. Just brass crass arrogance among many people.:facepalm:
 
#34 ·
Yes that was the version of the Camry I was referring to . I've driven it and it is very very good for its class maybe the best. I never noticed numb steering in any Camry of recent vintage, but the Sonata and Optima seem to have very poor feedback to me. Very artificial feeling .

I also have been able to drive the Mazda 6 and I don't see the Optima as being able to hold a candle to it. The 6 is another class above the Optima in overall handling and driver controls. I actually prefer the 6 which now is a bit old to either of the Hyundai twins.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Yes that was the version of the Camry I was referring to . I've driven it and it is very very good for its class maybe the best. I never noticed numb steering in any Camry of recent vintage, but the Sonata and Optima seem to have very poor feedback to me. Very artificial feeling .
Yes, let's take your word over pretty much every auto reviewer that has tested the Camry.

And oh, I've driven the Camry and its steering is numb and the body roll quite evident (plus, the interior is cheap as heck; significantly cheaper than the '92 Camry).

And while the Camry SE is better, it's not exactly sporty.

Aussie reviewers have tested the Optima and they like the way it handles (short of the AWD Suzuki and Subie, tho); the AU Camry gets compared to whitegoods (the suspension tuning for the Camry SE was done by Toyota Australia, btw).
 
G
#39 ·
Wow, 1SICKLEX. You know, most people realize when they need to stoop to quoting an old TTAC article in order to try and prove their point, that means the argument is pretty much lost.

But, hey, kudos and all for sticking to your guns. Custer would be proud.
 
#42 · (Edited)
The Camry SE drives as good and better than most in class. I'm glad they will continue to offer the SE model, from my understanding the next one is tuned to really be a better driving car than the LE/XLE etc.



Some wanksters forget that model though and just think they are all beige E models or something:facepalm:
Camry SE FTW.

I've never been a big fan of the LE or XLE cars for obvious reasons but the SE has been one of the handsomest cars in the segment and really has aged well. The black interior/improved fabric , bigger wheels, and the re-tuned handling are also big pluses for that car. All it really takes is a tint to the windows to complete the look and it is one of the few mid-sizers I wouldn't mind driving being in my mid 20s and single, along with the Mazda 6 and the Optima.

I have a coworker who bought one of the early ones in 2007 and it has been dead reliable for 200,000km so far.
 
#43 ·
The Camry SE is a handsome car indeed. The only problem is that Toyota STILL insists on putting those gawd awful body/bumper kits on it (same with the Corolla) instead of investing in different bumpers front and rear. Cheapskate bastards.

Damn things aren't even properly color matched.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Car & Driver

On the highway, the Camry floats along in a way that your grandparents would love, although there’s quite a lot of tire and wind noise at mildly illegal speeds. That’s where the good news ends. The steering is like a sullen teenager, slow to respond and uncommunicative. The brake pedal is soft and mushy, as if Toyota wanted to make sure that none of its more dimwitted drivers could confuse the pedal that makes the car go with the one that makes it stop.

The SE is supposed to be the sporty Camry. On a curvy road, though, it’s not a willing accomplice. Apart from the slow steering, the body control is merely average, and it will push resolutely before the stability control comes in to shut down any potential fun. It’s not bad, necessarily, but any driving pleasure has been engineered out of the equation.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_toyota_camry_se-short_take_road_test


Motor Trend

So it's pretty respectable in a straight line, but how does this unpretentious four-door handle on the streets? Nobody would assume there'd be razor-sharp steering. And there isn't -- sawing at the Camry's steering wheel reveals a docile and decently responsive setup. The sportier SE has thicker, solid anti-roll bars to tighten up the road-holding -- the front bar is 25 millimeters (0.8-inches thicker) while the rear is 16 millimeters (0.1-inch thicker). Engineers changed the dampers, springs, and rubber bushings on the SE's front MacPherson strut and dual-link rear suspension to introduce a 0.2-inch-lower ride height and firmer handling. Additional front and rear chassis bracing help increase torsional rigidity, and the underbody is smoothed to speed up airflow, a desirable aerodynamic action (unless you really want lift). The drive is a little noisier with the semi-aggressive Toyo tires, but don't be fooled by the SE badge. This is a family-hauler first and foremost, and there is a lot of comfort to be found in this trim.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...camry_se_v6_drive/steering.html#ixzz1S9Oj89OM


Autoguide

The sporty Camry SE has the chassis dropped with taut suspension tuning and a body kit with front and rear spoilers and rocker panel moldings plus 17-inch aluminum wheels and 215/55/17 tires to help give it that more dynamic driving experience you might want for a drive on PCH.

Unfortunately, the Camry is more luxury than sport, even in its sportiest SE trim, with a cushy ride and overly relaxed steering.

Leave it: Benign steering
Low on the passionate scale; even in SE trim
http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/toyota/2010-toyota-camry-se-v6-review-1280.html


And the cincher is a poster's review of the SE on ClubLexus (mmarshal is a retired pilot and probably the most respected poster on ClubLexus who is known for his reviews).

The Camry SE model, while not aimed directly at BMWs and Audis, is marketed primarily as a psuedo-sports sedan, but in reality, it is nothing but a run-of-the-mill family Camry sedan with some slightly different exterior and interior trim and slightly more aggressive suspension and tires...and (maybe) a slightly revised power-steering system. The SE 4 and V6 engines (yes, there is an SE four cylinder) are exactly the same as in other Camrys......and to top it off, a manual transmission is not avaliable with V6's even in the SE....a significant oversight.

The Verdict?:

I don't like to give vehicles low ratings in my reviews, especially vehicles with the vast nationwide appeal that the Camry has, and the tens of millions of satisfied customers who have bought them over the years, but I honestly was not very impressed with the 2007 model, despite the addition of a Hybrid and an overdue tilt-and-telescope steering wheel. As I've already explained, some good things were carried over from previous models, but the new interior shows just too many signs of poor design and cost-cutting. Toyota seems to be using cheaper and cheaper interior materials for each new redesign they do....only the Corolla, for some reason, seems to have escaped this. And, while styling, of course, is a matter of taste and personal opinion, I've already mentioned that the trunk lid, tailights, and Yaris-like front end are not my cup of tea (though, as mentioned, the SE model's grille is less Yaris-like than on other Camrys). The SE model has a sports-sedan ride but not sports-sedan steering or handling, and the automatic transmission's butter-smoothness saps too much power from the V6 for a sport sedan. And, while the Camry is still on the list of on Consumer Reports' list of recommended sedans, its reliability record, in the last couple of years (the new model, of course, has insufficient data), has shown a distinct drop from its former near-bulletproof level.
A notable feature of the SE, as I pointed out in the review, was its stiffer ride than non-SE models, without any noticeable difference in steering response except for the decreased body roll. I can understand a stiffer, German-type sports-sedan ride if it pays off in handling benefits and better steering response, but in the Camry SE, except for roll control, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/291354-review-2007-toyota-camry-se-v6.html


Compare that to mmarshall's review of a base trim Optima LX - and not the sportier, more powerful SX trim.

The 6-speed transmission is a delight to use, despite the lack of column-shift paddles. The shifter action is fore/aft without annoying zig-zags, and the lever-action itself is firm but butter-smooth through the detents....sort of like on the Chevy Malibu. The lever has a short, stubby, sport-feel. The transmission itself is silky-smooth, quiet, versatile, and shifts seamlessly whether in manual or automatic-mode.

The standard chassis-tuning, even without the Sport suspension and with 65-series tires, rides just a little stiffer than I would normally like (many vehicles today do), but otherwise is a delight. The ride, though slightly stiffer than I would like, is not bad at all, and provides a good compromise with the handling. The steering response is quick and sport-like, even with the standard suspension, and there is little body roll. Steering feel is quite firm and butter-smooth...no squishy, over-boosted system here. Noise-control is also good, although the Optima is not luxury-car quiet. Only a fairly small amount of wind/tire/road noise filters into the cabin. The brake-pedal action and feel is outstanding (German-sports-sedan firm, with virtually no sponginess at all), though the brakes themselves take some pressure to respond....they don't quite stop with Porsche 911-type authority. The brake-pedal itself could be a little better-located, too...it is close to the gas pedal and a little high, allowing my big size-15 clown-shoe to hang up just a little on the pedal-edge going from gas to brake.

THE VERDICT:

Well, folks, by now, you probably get the impression that I liked this car.....and you're right. It is arguably one of the best Under-$25,000 sedans I've come across, especially from a drivers' point of view, where it will, IMO, give the Mazda6 a good run for the money.....and beat it in some areas. This is probably what a $20-25K BMW front-drive sedan would probably feel like if they sold one here. I was as pleased with this car as I was disappointed with its new brother the Sonata....both, of course, are done on the same platform. It has a value-price (turbo models, of course, run slightly higher), seems well-built, has a nice interior (especially in two-tone) despite the lack of wood-tone or carbon-fiber, steers and handles well, has a smooth, reasonably powerful, refined drivetrain, and, of course, best of all, has the Hyundai/Kia 10/100 and 5/60 warranties.
http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/567431-mm-review-2011-kia-optima.html
 
#46 ·
Car & Driver



http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q2/2010_toyota_camry_se-short_take_road_test


Motor Trend



Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...camry_se_v6_drive/steering.html#ixzz1S9Oj89OM


Autoguide



http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/toyota/2010-toyota-camry-se-v6-review-1280.html


And the cincher is a poster's review of the SE on ClubLexus (mmarshal is a retired pilot and probably the most respected poster on ClubLexus who is known for his reviews).





http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/291354-review-2007-toyota-camry-se-v6.html


Compare that to mmarshall's review of a base trim Optima LX - and not the sportier, more powerful SX trim.



http://www.clublexus.com/forums/car-chat/567431-mm-review-2011-kia-optima.html
You sure do have a lot of time on your hands to make a point :laugh:
 
#47 ·
Yes, the Camry SE's steering is quite numb, but the handling is pretty good for it's class. Is it the best in class? No. Is it the worst in class? No. Is it a safe bet as a commuter? Absolutely.
 
#50 ·
Oh geez, this thread just goes to prove that there is no rational discussion to be had regarding Hyundai with some people. Sometimes I think you guys like the drama and nitpicking. Even BonesJones, the most devout of all Hyundai fans, has went on record as praising the Camry for being a success and stated that it will likely hold on to the #1 position for quite some time.

As for the whole handling argument. These are family sedans people! Trying to argue that the Camry is sporty and/or better handling than the Sonata is like trying to argue over which 5' cripple is a better basketball player. :screwy:
 
#56 ·
Could you be any more of a douche? Really? Why don't you just quote the whole damn thread adding emoticons, and "you mad" pics for good measure?

****ing waste of space. They should ban your dumb ass again.
 
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