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    Thread: clueless riders and stuff they say...

    1. Member TurboWraith's Avatar
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      07-19-2011 04:37 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by romano258 View Post
      The VFR seems to cause a good deal of confusion.

      Q: What bike do you have?

      A: VFR800.

      Q: Cool, what kind of a bike is that?

      A: It's a sport-tourer, I guess

      Q: What's a sport-tourer?

      A: Well, it's a sportbike...that you can also tour on.

      Q: Oh, I see, so what kind of engine does it have?

      A: A v4

      Q: You mean an inline 4, right?

      A: I gotta go.

      Or from Goldwing owners:

      Nice crotch rocket!
      Dude, there is no such thing as a V4, 4 cylinder engines are inline, DUH.















    2. Member Süsser Tod's Avatar
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      07-20-2011 11:44 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by rambag3 View Post
      We did this thread before but it's always fun. My favorite is about my sv.
      What kind of bike is that?
      It's a suzuki sv.
      Oh so it's a crotch rocket?
      No it's a v-twin.
      So it's not a crotch rocket?
      Sigh...
      Crotch Rockets = Sport Bikes

      Sport Bikes can have 2, 3 or 4 cylinders in whatever configuration.

      Therefore: SV = Crotch Rocket

      I just tell them it's an old GSX-R

    3. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      07-20-2011 11:46 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by kerridwen View Post
      Crotch Rockets = Sport Bikes

      Sport Bikes can have 2, 3 or 4 cylinders in whatever configuration.

      Therefore: SV = Crotch Rocket

      I just tell them it's an old GSX-R
      i tell them it's a standard. this keeps the "omg crotch rockets are so dangerous" crowd thinking i'm a responsible motorcyclist and the squid crowd ignoring me
      win-win to me
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      07-22-2011 12:02 PM #29
      People don't realize that even riding a bicycle, you counter steer when turning. If you just turn the handle bar you're going down, unless you're going slow enough.
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    5. Member JohnnyD's Avatar
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      07-22-2011 12:33 PM #30
      I own a Buell. There are too many clueless questions asked by others

      Most of them involve Who makes Buell? Or, thats not a gas tank? Oil is where?
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      07-22-2011 01:46 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by mad8vskillz View Post
      ftfy
      That's why I own a Daytona 675.

    7. Member ab8349's Avatar
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      07-22-2011 02:39 PM #32
      Cool video, bro...

      Maybe your friend is confusing leverage with cog? It is definitely easier to maneuver a machine with an upright riding position, and wide, high bars.
      “Supermoto bikes exist so that 40 year old men who know better can act like total a--holes.”

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    8. 07-23-2011 11:20 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by red98wlfsbrg View Post
      People don't realize that even riding a bicycle, you counter steer when turning.
      People don't realize that its physically impossible--that is, beyond the laws of physics--to get a motorcycle or bicycle to turn without some degree of counter steer.

    9. Member JWoody's Avatar
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      07-23-2011 11:22 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyD View Post
      I own a Buell. There are too many clueless questions asked by others

      Most of them involve Who makes Buell? Or, thats not a gas tank? Oil is where?
      QFT

    10. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      08-01-2011 11:01 PM #35
      One of my occasional forays into this forum, just popping my head up to say that video was amazing.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    11. Senior Member F1_Fan's Avatar
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      08-02-2011 03:02 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by bxr140 View Post
      People don't realize that its physically impossible--that is, beyond the laws of physics--to get a motorcycle or bicycle to turn without some degree of counter steer.
      There is a fool-proof demo of this. Have them go through along sweeping corner (like a big circle in an empty parking lot) at city speed with one hand on the "inside" grip and the other hand off the bars (this obviously works best with the right hand on the bar). Once in the corner, push and pull gently on the grip.

      The need for counter-steering becomes really obvious since pushing on the right bar is the only way to get through a right sweeper w/o heading for the centre line.
      There's always money in the banana stand.

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      08-02-2011 03:40 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by bxr140 View Post
      People don't realize that its physically impossible--that is, beyond the laws of physics--to get a motorcycle or bicycle to turn without some degree of counter steer.
      eh? So when I moving it in my garage and the wheel is at full lock in the direction I'm turning, I'm doing the impossible and defying the laws of physics? I'm the ****ing awesome!

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      08-02-2011 03:53 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by yzfwv View Post
      eh? So when I moving it in my garage and the wheel is at full lock in the direction I'm turning, I'm doing the impossible and defying the laws of physics? I'm the ****ing awesome!
      Under power, above 7mph (I think is the understood speed), you do not steer a single-track vehicle by moving the wheel in the direction you want to go, you countersteer it. It be a scientific fact, no use in arguing it.
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

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    14. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      08-02-2011 04:00 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by F1_Fan View Post
      There is a fool-proof demo of this. Have them go through along sweeping corner (like a big circle in an empty parking lot) at city speed with one hand on the "inside" grip and the other hand off the bars (this obviously works best with the right hand on the bar). Once in the corner, push and pull gently on the grip.

      The need for counter-steering becomes really obvious since pushing on the right bar is the only way to get through a right sweeper w/o heading for the centre line.
      this might be a dangerous proposition if they get overzealous with trying to prove you wrong
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

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      08-02-2011 04:17 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Silly_me View Post
      Under power, above 7mph (I think is the understood speed), you do not steer a single-track vehicle by moving the wheel in the direction you want to go, you countersteer it. It be a scientific fact, no use in arguing it.
      Sped wasn't stated in the previous reply.

    16. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      08-02-2011 11:25 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by yzfwv View Post
      Sped wasn't stated in the previous reply.
      "City speed" was used, for what that's worth. It's an implied speed floor.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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      08-03-2011 09:03 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      "City speed" was used, for what that's worth. It's an implied speed floor.
      Uh, read it again. "City" and "speed" appear nowher in BXR140's post.

      Quote Originally Posted by bxr140 View Post
      People don't realize that its physically impossible--that is, beyond the laws of physics--to get a motorcycle or bicycle to turn without some degree of counter steer.
      I mean, I could be blind, but I don't see those two words anywhere in that post.

    18. 08-03-2011 12:59 PM #43
      F1_Fan quoted it and then said to demo this go to a parking lot and ride at city speed...

      Regarding you turning the bars to move the bike in the garage, that is just like moving an object -- the countersteer thing comes in at speed/under power because of the gyroscopic forces or whatever that are going on.

      When I got my first bike and didn't know how to ride (literally) and jumped on the highway, then I wanted to change lanes, started trying to "steer" to the other lane, inched the OPPOSITE direction, that was scary.

      (Yes I did everything wrong with getting in to riding. I am still alive though. )

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      08-03-2011 01:09 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by jasonyates View Post
      F1_Fan quoted it and then said to demo this go to a parking lot and ride at city speed...

      Regarding you turning the bars to move the bike in the garage, that is just like moving an object -- the countersteer thing comes in at speed/under power because of the gyroscopic forces or whatever that are going on.

      When I got my first bike and didn't know how to ride (literally) and jumped on the highway, then I wanted to change lanes, started trying to "steer" to the other lane, inched the OPPOSITE direction, that was scary.

      (Yes I did everything wrong with getting in to riding. I am still alive though. )
      Annnnnnnd, I didn't quote F1_Fan. The words city and speed still appear nowhere in my post or the post I quoted.

    20. 08-03-2011 01:15 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by yzfwv View Post
      Annnnnnnd, I didn't quote F1_Fan. The words city and speed still appear nowhere in my post or the post I quoted.
      Do you ride? I don't. I have no idea why I am in this thread...

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      08-03-2011 01:17 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by jasonyates View Post
      Do you ride? I don't. I have no idea why I am in this thread...
      Yes.

    22. Senior Member F1_Fan's Avatar
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      08-03-2011 02:36 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by jasonyates View Post
      Regarding you turning the bars to move the bike in the garage, that is just like moving an object -- the countersteer thing comes in at speed/under power because of the gyroscopic forces or whatever that are going on.
      Ah there's nothing like a countersteering thread to get a motorcycle forum hopping!
      There's always money in the banana stand.

    23. Member mad8vskillz's Avatar
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      08-03-2011 02:41 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by F1_Fan View Post
      Ah there's nothing like a countersteering thread to get a motorcycle forum hopping!
      a rear brake thread
      Demokratikally Elekted Fist Lieutenant of the Outside Cavalry of the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
      Quote Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake View Post
      That's too bad but, VWVortex said so... so you have to do it now.

    24. 08-03-2011 07:32 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by yzfwv View Post
      eh? So when I moving it in my garage and the wheel is at full lock in the direction I'm turning, I'm doing the impossible and defying the laws of physics? I'm the ****ing awesome!
      Yes, if the bike is in motion, you counter steer to initiate a change of direction even at slow speeds.

      To be clear, "countersteering" applies to both to the input (the physical action--pushing/pulling on the bars) and the output (the resulting bike geometry--specifically the change in steering angle of the front end) and the two are really decoupled. The former lasts through the turn to some degree or another (or at least, through ~half the turn, give or take the situation). The later only occurs at the beginning of the direction change.

      Again, to beat the horse, it is physically impossible to for a [moving] single track vehicle to change directions without that direction change being initiated by some measurable amount of opposite/counter steering angle. At speed, the most you'll see is a degree or so of counter angle, for no more than a second or so. At walking pace (in your garage), the magnitude and duration of the counter angle are so small that its easy to think it doesn't happen...but it does.

      After the counter angle initiates the turn, other forces take over and the steering angle does indeed point "into" the turn. Look down in a tight right hander and sure as **** your bars will be turned a noticeable amount to the right (if both tires have full traction). When you provide input to come out of that right hander, the bars will momentarily turn more right, then back to zero when the bike is basically upright.

      As for the physical action of countersteering, many people understand how it works at speed, because many people have played the push/pull game in a turn or on the freeway or wherever. The reason you hear things like "countersteering doesn't happen at low speeds" is because the other forces involved play a bigger part at lower speeds, so the need to actually push or pull on the bars to create the counter steer becomes negligible or even non existent.

      Quote Originally Posted by F1_Fan View Post
      There is a fool-proof demo of this. Have them go through along sweeping corner...
      Another interesting experiment is the hands off body "flick" to start a turn. You can absolutely use only your body to initiate a turn while coasting with no hands. It turns into a mess after the first split second because you're not doing the physical action of "countersteering" (and so fair warning if you die trying), but movement of your body to the right will pull the bike off the centerline to the right and will induce a left counter angle in the front end because the tires are still more or less "stuck" on the centerline (rake and trail come into play here). Result? Right turn initiated.

      But that's a whole 'nuther topic.
      Last edited by bxr140; 08-03-2011 at 07:42 PM.

    25. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      08-03-2011 07:35 PM #50
      I am going to sit here quietly and take notes as this develops.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

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