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Heads up, Larry~! 1930 birthdate for this Packard... 1910 birthdate for the driver....

80K views 301 replies 60 participants last post by  Brimjolt 
#1 · (Edited)


A PAIR Margaret Dunning of Plymouth, Mich., is 101 and her Packard 740 roadster is 81. She will be showing the car at the Concours d’Élégance of America this month.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/automobiles/packard-81-is-a-youngster-to-its-driver.html


Here is the video embed (finally figured it out)

:p




PLYMOUTH, Mich.

WHEN Margaret Dunning was 10 years old, she lost control while driving the family’s Overland touring car and careered into a barn, fracturing several boards.

“I hit it, and it didn’t move,” Ms. Dunning, who turned 101 last month, said.

“That car had a mind of its own,” she said. “And I’m not a very tall person, so I had trouble getting onto the brakes with enough power to hold that engine down. It just got away from me.”

Soon enough, though, she was back at it, rumbling around the back roads of Redford Township, just west of Detroit, where her family owned a sprawling dairy and potato farm. By then she had already been driving for two years.

Before the barn incident, Ms. Dunning’s father had often let his young daughter steer while he operated the other controls. One day he let her do it all, but not without a stern lecture.

“Do you know what you’re controlling here?” she recalled him asking. “Do you know the power that you’re controlling?”

“He explained to me how, for some jobs, it was better to use multiple horses,” she said. “But the minute you lose control, you’ve got wild horses to deal with.

“And that’s how he taught me about horsepower,” Ms. Dunning added. “And it stuck with me.”

After that, Ms. Dunning, an only child, drove everything on the farm that was drivable, she said, including a Maxwell truck and eventually, tractors.

When she was 12 her father died, and his Model T Ford became hers.

Once her politically connected mother, who had arthritic feet and could not drive cars, finagled a driver’s license for the 12-year-old Margaret, she drove her mother everywhere. Her mother drove the farm’s four teams of horses.

“If you had just a little knowledge and some baling wire and bob pins, you could keep the thing going,” she said of the Model T. “It was the little car that made America.”

She cherished her time in the car alone, reaching into the wind for roadside stalks of fragrant sweet clover. “I’d see a few friends or race past a blind pig,” she said, using the euphemism for Prohibition-era drinking establishments. “Before I could get home, people would be calling saying, ‘I think I just saw Margaret, with quite a dust pile behind her.’ ”

In those days there was something else in the air: the excitement spawned by a burgeoning auto industry. Henry Ford not only led that wave, but to the Dunnings he was a friend and neighbor who lived minutes away.

“Dad would come in and say, ‘Well, Henry’s outside and I’ve asked him to stay for dinner,’
” she said. “Mom had made huckleberry pie and offered Henry some.

“He said that was his favorite pie — I think he was being polite, but he was marvelous just like that.”

She added, “He always wore a hat with a sizable brim and a black band, and he’d push it off his face when he talked to you, and looked you right in the eye.”

Ms. Dunning, who never married, attended a private high school in Wellesley, Mass., before enrolling at the University of Michigan, intending to study business.

“When I was little, Mom asked me what I thought I wanted to do for a living,” she said. “I told her ‘to buy and sell.’ I think that surprised her.”

She dropped out of college during the Depression to help at her mother’s real estate business and later had successful turns in banking and retail.

All along she supported her beloved town of Plymouth, where she has lived in the same home since she was 13. In the 1940s she and her mother donated property to establish what is now the Dunning-Hough Library. She has also donated more than $1 million to the Plymouth Historical Museum.

Her love affair with vehicles never waned. She drove a truck as a Red Cross volunteer and has owned a parade of classic and antique cars. At her home, she also keeps a 1931 Ford Model A, a 1966 Cadillac DeVille that she often drives to car meets, a 1975 Cadillac Eldorado convertible and her everyday car, a 2003 DeVille. A battered Model T steering wheel is her garage doorstop.


But her real love is a cream-color 1930 Packard 740 roadster, which she has owned since 1949. She plans to show the Packard at the Concours d’Élégance of America in Plymouth on July 31 .

“I saw a for-sale picture and I was a goner right then and there,” Ms. Dunning said. “The guy said his wife had told him they had to get a closed car if they were going to have children. It was raining that day in Detroit when it came in, I remember it well. It sat in a carrier all by itself.”

Ms. Dunning cannot recall how much she paid for the Packard, and said it was unclear how many miles were on its in-line 8-cylinder engine. The Packard had not exactly been pampered, she said, before it was fully restored by a friend.

“It had been through the boot camp at some Army places during the Second World War,” she explained. “In those days soldiers wanted something to drive from camp to their new city, and they loaded them with other soldiers and ran the dickens out of them.”

Since it was restored, the Packard has mostly been a show car, although Ms. Dunning used to drive it more often than the three or four times a year that she takes it out now. “It’s always been a car that I’ve kept separate from other cars,” she said, adding that she has owned other Packards.

“They’re just made out of such fine material,” she said. “I love the engineering that went into it. There’s just a lot of very, very fine workmanship.”

Packard, an upscale brand produced from 1899 to 1958, ushered in several innovative designs, including the modern steering wheel. Ms. Dunning’s roadster was built in Detroit in an Albert Kahn-designed factory complex, now abandoned, that covered 3.5 million square feet and once employed 40,000 workers. In addition to the luxury vehicles, the factory turned out engines for World War II fighter planes.

Ms. Dunning still changes the oil herself, but mostly relies on a small maintenance team that includes a 90-year-old friend. “His hands are just magic,” she said.

Her car has black fenders and a red leather interior with a cigarette lighter, map light and glove compartments on each side of the dashboard. The windshield pushes outward, and there is a rumble seat and storage compartment in back. The transmission is a 4-speed — manual shift, of course.

All these years Ms. Dunning has kept her Packard’s original key with its elaborate crest. For her recent birthday, some friends duplicated the prized key.

“I was thrilled to death to have another one,” she said. “If I had ever lost the one I had, the locksmith would be out here for a week, and I still would not have that crest,” she said.

Ms. Dunning, who belongs to several car clubs, including the Michigan Region Classic Car Club of America, said the Packard has never given her much trouble, although there were times she had to deal with vapor lock, when the gasoline gets hot and evaporates before making it through the carburetor.

“You wait until the car cools off, restart it and off you go,” she said.

“I’ve never run out of gas with it,” she said with a chuckle. “That’s the famous thing to do with old cars. You’re so busy trying to keep everything else in shape, you forget about the gas.”

She said she was looking forward to the concours because she had not shown the car in years. “And it’s just such a pleasure to revive old memories, people I haven’t seen in such a long time.”

Having experienced the horse-and -buggy and Model T days, Ms. Dunning is amazed by the technology and styling of contemporary cars, she said. She is considering buying another vehicle, but she does not know what yet. “It’s just so much easier to drive now because of power steering and brakes,” she explained.

“With the older cars you have to use what I call arm-strong steering. But cars like the Packard make it all worthwhile. I love that car a great deal. I mean, I honestly do love it.”
 
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#126 ·
In many ways, Barry, that photograph of the Porsche, Talbot Lago, and Packard is so representative of the kaleidoscopic variety that composes the world of automobiles. From large and imposing, heavy and powerful, to light and nimble and moderately powered, and those in between, they cover a lot of philosophical, engineering, and technical ground. Those 3 cars represent what I love so much about automobiles. One can study them for one's entire life, and still not get to the end of the story. I like that. :)
 
#132 ·
I enjoy looking at a photograph of 2 1930s cars such as the one above, and placing myself, mentally, back in the mid-thirties, as a car enthusiast, and absolutely marvelling at the way automobiles, and automotive design, have progressed in just a few short years. Those two cars, just 5 or so years apart, look like they're from different planets. An amazing decade.
 
#134 ·
That's mostly true, but in any case the point still stands. The general population of automobiles largely reflected a similar degree of great progress during those years, on all fronts. For example, all automobiles, from the cheapest to the mightiest, still rolled along on cart-spring suspension systems in 1930 (except for Lancia, of course ;)), while, by 1935, independent front A-arm/coil spring front suspension was becoming commonplace on GM cars, and other makes, too. Hydraulic braking was mandatory for any contemporary car by '35, except for Henry's cars, of course, and this was a HUGE leap in automotive safety/drivability/comfort/control over the old cable or rod actuated brakes that were prevalent just a few years earlier.
 
#140 ·
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:x1000
 
#145 ·
Nice to hear about the different judging panels you've faced, Barry.

Always great to hear some of the background bits and pieces of these showcase venues.

:thumbup:

And always fun to see the photos of the strange creations, as in that black stealth auto.

Even though I've seen pictures of it before, it's really amazing to look at from several different angles

That Phantom Corsair is simply super-slick~!!

(though I'm not quite sure the name Scarab is the correct identifier, perhaps you are using Scarab more as a describer of another beetle shape)

 
#147 ·
The extreme solution to the problem of steered wheels covered by sheetmetal was taken most famously by Nash, when they built the aerodynamically designed Airflyte for 1949. The front track was inordinately narrow; much narrower than the rear track, and even so, the maximum angle the steered wheels could take was very shallow, which made these cars difficult in U-turns and certain parking situations. But Nils Walberg, Nash's visionary chief engineer, went ahead with the project, compromises and all, in the interest of advancing automotive aerodynamics and efficiency via the shrouding of all four wheels in a smooth enclosure:



In recent years, Ford Motor Company revisited the possibilities of shrouded steered wheels with its major concept showcase of the early eighties, the Probe IV. With this car, the front wheels steered normally, and had "hat" inner fenders that enclosed the wheels to mid-point. The outer skin adjacent to the tire and wheel was made of a flexible polymer that the hat, when the wheels were steered into the outer skin, would cause to stretch out of the way, and then resume its original profile when the wheels straightened out. Oddball, but interesting:

 
#148 ·
In recent years, Ford Motor Company revisited the possibilities of shrouded steered wheels with its major concept showcase of the early eighties, the Probe IV. With this car, the front wheels steered normally, and had "hat" inner fenders that enclosed the wheels to mid-point. The outer skin adjacent to the tire and wheel was made of a flexible polymer that the hat, when the wheels were steered into the outer skin, would cause to stretch out of the way, and then resume its original profile when the wheels straightened out. Oddball, but interesting:

I remember that layout and almost mentioned that. I don't think I've ever seen the actual photos of the car, I've only seen the plan drawings (In Popular Mechanics, I think). It's a very ingenious solution in my opinion. :beer:
 
#153 ·
Only 9 built. Just 5 still in existence









The car shown (the two lower pictures) was once part of the famous Harrah's Collection in Reno, Nevada. It was purchased by the current owner (possibly Barry's friend)in 1983, and has since had a ground-up restoration. The work included complete mechanical restoration as well as a new woven wood headliner.

 
#155 ·
Perhaps the most interesting, and to modern eyes, bizarre feature of the Scarabs was their detached seating. The chairs were not bolted to the floor, but rather sat on a grippy rubber mat that was supposed to hold them wherever they were placed. If there has been a greater and more effective evolution in automotive design than in the field of occupant safety, I can't think of one. :)

 
#157 · (Edited)
^^

Wow... so that's what they were referring to when they were talking about "flexi-seating"









Barry, your friend's comment about WWII map car may some grounding in actuality according to the comments below. Sounds like Ike may have used a Scarab but more than likely the lucky Scarab got scooped up and turned French speaking early on, later to land the lucky job with Dwight D.

And the last comment really shows it was lucky to have survived the Big Top!!

:eek:

Lots of photos, but most are of cars in the U.S.




This car is one of probably nine that were built by William Stout, an aeronautical engineer in Dearborn, MI. It was sold to a French publishing magnate and spent its entire life in France, supposedly used by General Eisenhower in North Africa and then by General DeGaulle. It was then used by a circus to house monkeys until Philippe Charbonneaux, a French automotive designer, bought it in the early sixties for his museum.


This is perhaps the French car on display in Genoa, Italy

 
#159 ·
Absolutely hilarious article in Jalopy Journal 2008

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=3094



We’ve talked about the Airflow and the Dymaxion before, but we’ve never really touched on the Stout Scarab and all of its wierdness. It all started with a loon…
William B. Stout was an aviator and motor journalist (Motor Age) with a wondering mind. While on a cross country trip with this family, William began to ponder the inefficiencies of the automobile when used as a long hauler. We’ve all been there… He was cramped, his ass hurt, his back hurt, he was tired of the kids screaming, and tired of his wife’s toe prints on the front windshield as she “reclined” in the passenger seat. There had to be a better way.
Upon arriving home, William began to brainstorm and sketch his ideas as he went along. After a few packs of cigarettes, a few gallons of coffee, and a couple of sleepless nights, he got it figured. The Stout would have unit body construction, be made of aluminum, and constructed with mechanically proven parts. The Ford flathead was located towards the rear of the car and shifted with a 3-speed box/transaxle of Stout’s own design. Independent front and rear suspension systems were sprung with air-assisted coils and located some 135-inches from each other.
[/QUOTE]

The wide body would be as slippery of a shape as an antique mind could figure and would feature a wide, body-over-wheels design. The idea was to create an interior more spacious and flexible than had ever been imagined. As a result, some crazy configurations were available to the lucky few Stout owners. While the driver’s seat was in a fixed position, the other seats were mounted on tracks and were capable of spinning, reclining, and for/aft movement. This allowed for a comfy cot to be reside towards the rear of the car and an optional card table to be constructed in the center. All of the conveniences of home while on the road.
Of course, the Stout Scarab never really made it. Most folks think that around nine were build between 1934 and 1939, but there is no official figure. William threw in the towel and lost to the Detroit big boys, but gave them one hell of a shot – don’t ya think?














Dash (and doors) rumored to be cast out of magnesium. True?
 
#161 ·
William Stout's motto:

"Simplicate, then add lightness"
Sounds like a lot of designers would do well to follow this dictum

 
#200 ·
Holy cow, but that burgundy Packard is pure art!!

I almost hate to ruin the resonance coming off Larry's Packard awesome color shot with mundane black and white and text

But here goes





William Stout and the Scarab. For your reading pleasure. It even has a road test at the end.

15 seconds zero to 60 if anyone cares.

:D



Perhaps the most brilliant thing Bill Stout ever did, according to Rich Taylor’s account of the engineer’s life and career in SIA #32, January-February 1976, was not to design the Scarab for which he is most known, or to influence aviation history early on. Instead, the manner in which he raised funds to start his own aircraft company was a particular stroke of chutzpatic genius. Interestingly, his Scarab was never initially intended for production, but rather was just to show off his engineering ideas, some of which took unusual paths to production.
Rich Taylor elaborates:
"After an inexperienced and clearly unnerved Navy pilot managed to pancake the only "flying wing" prototype Stout had built, the Navy cancelled his 3 plane contract and left him 163,000 dollars out of pocket
In desperation, he hatched one of the cleverest promotions ever. He sat down and wrote the 100 most prosperous men in Detroit a personal letter."

Just give me $1,000- no more, no less.........and I promise you you'll lose your shirt. But you'll get your money's worth in fun
"Intrigued, Henry and Edsel Ford subscribed to the "lose your shirt" fund. That pairing of Ford and Stout led to a whole raft of things to come in Stout's design portfolio."

The article is quite lengthy and I found it to be very interesting to read of this genius.














 
#165 ·
Ah so...

I very studious grasshopper!

:D

(And generally speaking) Without a case of the stupids.

Occasionally I may misname something or get a reference wrong, but I don't mind being corrected.

After all, there is such a wealth of information available that resides in so many TCL old hands here (I've been lurking and watching) that someone is always going to know way more than any one individual.

Perhaps I should amend that and remind myself that Larry has got a long suit in information and it appears that you've got a long suit in experience within the heady world of classic restorative detail.

It amazes me when I hear of some of the painstaking, mind numbing tasks that go into getting these cars in shape. (As well as the money....:eek:)

That Scarab in North Carolina was purchased for 20,000 dollars from Bill Harrah's estate in the '80's and then the buyer dropped a cool 300,000 dollars into getting it from rough to awesome.



http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/north_carolina/lumberton-man-owns-rare-scarab-auto
 
#166 ·
That's a pretty involved headliner there. Woven wood is what the references say.








 
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