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    Thread: The Case Against CrossFit

    1. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:31 PM #1
      THE CASE AGAINST CROSSFIT

      With the large volume of threads here "debating" the merits of CrossFit, I wanted to create a centralized thread that people could be directed to when they have a question about CF. I will discuss this topic in multiple posts, and will continue to add as time goes on.

      1. The lunacy of Greg Glassman
      2. Lack of programming oversight
      3. Injuries: Specifically SLAP tears, achilles ruptures, and Rhabdo
      4. CrossFit or Metabolic Conditioning?
      5. CF's biggest H&F defender's reasons why CF is revolutionary
      6. The Myth of Functional Strength


      The purpose of this thread is to use empirical evidence and testimony from people from both the CF world and the fitness world in general to point out the flaws in the CF methodology, and to warn others who may be interested in this often dangerous fad.
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 07-26-2011 at 11:46 PM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    2. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:31 PM #2
      1. The Lunacy of Greg Glassman

      A timeline:

      June 1974- John Jesse publishes The Wrestling Physical Conditioning Encyclopedia which popularizes the concept of metabolic condition. Some have accused Greg Glassman of appropriating the concept of the "metcon" from Jesse without giving proper credit.
      June 13, 2001- Greg Glassman declares that periodization as planned variations in intensity is witchcraft.
      October 1, 2002- Greg Glassman releases the first Crossfit Journal article, entitled "What is Fitness?" Among other things, it stresses the idea that the training all people (soldiers, athletes, and housewives included) should differ by intensity, not by type.
      January 1, 2003- Tyler Haas conducts an interview with Greg Glassman. In it, Glassman infamously declares that Crossfit will allow an athlete to go from deadlifting 200 pounds to between 500 and 750 pounds in only two years, while only pulling max singles several times per year. Glassman has been asked on numerous occasions to retract his statement, but refuses. To date, no one has demonstrated that the claim is true. Also, indicates that it "inuits well" that being able to deadlift 250 for high reps at a high heart rate means that you might be able to pull 500 lbs at a resting heart rate.
      January 19, 2003- Greg Glassman offers broad criticism of respected coach and sport scientist Mel Siff. Claims that he knows that Mel Siff's health conditions are caused by his diet. Glassman says he knows what Siff eats because of his recommendation for athletes in one of his books. Siff vigoriously disputes this.
      February 23, 2003- Greg Glassman states, "the supremacy of Russian methods, sports science, and athletic supremacy has all the legitimacy of the high carb/low fat diet."
      June 1, 2003- Glassman publishes an article in the Crossfit Journal entitled "Metabolic Conditioning." It was later noted to contain many ergregious errors, including the quote "anaerobic training can match endurance training for aerobic benefit."
      April 25, 2003- First WOD with comments posted online at crossfit.com.
      October 6, 2005- Greg Glassman lambasts respected gymnastics coach Chris Sommers and his athletes. Says that no kid will ever match the power output of any elite Crossfitters, and if one does, he will buy him a new car and pay for him to go to college.
      December 22, 2005- Stephanie Cooper of NY Times writes an article entitled "Getting Fit, Even if it Kills You". First mainstream publication to document rhabdomyolosis via Crossfit. Also quotes Glassman as saying, "If you find the notion of falling off the rings and breaking your neck so foreign to you, then we don't want you in our ranks."
      December 31, 2005- Glassman ends 2005 by declaring, on the Crossfit website, that the kipping pullup is critical to arboreal locomotion. Indicates he will laugh as non-Crossfitters avoid the kipping pullup.
      January 5, 2006- An epic showdown between Greg Glassman and Josh Hillis occurs on the Crossfit website. Glassman publicly attacks the character of Josh Hillis and several others for being weak. Hillis tries to apologize but Glassman declares that he is attacking Hillis' character. Also infamously declares that the Crossfit therapy for injuries is "STFU." Glassman refers to powerlifter Jack Reape as "morbidly obese" and mocks Steve Shafley for his Fran time.
      January 09, 2006- Bill Fox creates a post on the IronGarm X forums entitled "The Couch Thread." The post began with questioning Glassman's position that the Olympic lifts will develop speed strength better than the kettlebell lifts. Ironically, Glassman's assertion is now generally accepted to be true. However, the Couch thread evolved into the #1 location for those frustrated and angry with Crossfit and Greg Glassman to voice their views. Noted for its combination of vulgar attacks on Crossfit, along with more thoughtful critiques of the program. Also a source of Crossfit gossip and rumors, and a place to post pictures of Crossfitters.
      January 20, 2006- Glassman asassinates the character of Dan John. Dan John is accused of showing a "sad display of virtues." An author on T-Nation wrote a disparaging article about Crossfit, and Dan John did not attack the author to show his support for Crossfit. Dozens of well-written comments in support of Dan John's character are erased from the Crossfit website.
      March 23, 2007- Mark Twight (record-setting alpinist and trainer of 300 actors including Gerard Butler) is lambasted by Greg Glassman on the Crossfit website, accused of stealing Crossfit's intellectual property. Twight's documents on the website clearly show that he gives credit to Crossfit, specifically Greg and Lauren, for ideas. Glassman claims that "Mark Twight's attacks on CrossFit risk the lives of soldiers and police." Additionally, Glassman states "they're [sic] best male performance is not a match for our best females in Santa Cruz alone." To date, no female from Santa Cruz has broken any of Twight's records.
      September 12, 2007- Buddy Lee joins Crossfit to offer $500 certifications on how to jump rope. Lee's relationship with Crossfit quietly ends in mystery within a year or two.
      April 19, 2008- Brian MacKenzie declares on the Crossfit Endurance website that he will attempt to finish in the top 10 at the Badwater 135 Mile Ultramarathon and the Crossfit Games in the same year.
      July 14, 2008- Brian MacKenzie DNF's from the Crossfit Games.
      August 8, 2008- Makimba Mimms, a victim of rhabdomyolosis after performing a short Crossfit workout, is ridiculed on the Crossfit website for his lack of fitness.
      September 11, 2008- Reknown football combine coach Mike Boyle explains how Crossfit exercises such as high-rep Olympic lifts are ill-advised and may lead to injuries.
      November 4, 2008- Chris Shugart posts "The Truth About Crossfit" on T-Nation. Perhaps the most balanced and accurate third-party article to come out on Crossfit yet.
      November 8, 2008- Greg Glassman ridicules a NSCA and ACSM-certified trainer for being less educated than Crossfit's best, and for making minor grammatical mistakes, despite the fact that Glassman's posts are often filled with the same.
      November 11, 2008- Greg Glassman claims that Crossfit is the world leader in prevention of rhabdomyolosis.
      November 14, 2008- Tony Budding says that doing Crossfit WODs will make you competent in almost any real-world activity, but says that sword-fighting and tightrope walking are not seen in the real-world, so they can be discounted. Ironically, does not provide instances of where one would see a double-under or a wallball in real life.
      November 23, 2008- Man makes forum post on Crossfit forums asking if any other gay men do Crossfit. Thread is locked. A week and a half later, any discussion of sexuality is officially banned on the Crossfit forums and all instances of the word "gay" becomes censored.
      December 11, 2008- Greg Glassman ridicules Brandon Oto and claims he doesn't understand fitness, physics, or mathematics. Refuses to recant his statement that Crossfit will give you a 750 lb deadlift within 2 years, even though there is no proof. Refuses to recant the idea that Crossfit will be a better program for bodybuilding than actual bodybuilding (drug-free). Also declares exercise science a myth and says that no achievement in human performance has come even in part from exercise science.
      January 6, 2009- Glassman gives a presentation at the Naval War College. Khakis look like they were rolled up in a ball before he put them on.
      February 3, 2009- Another Glassassination. Greg Glassman learns of an email between Air Force higher-ups suggesting that the military is moving away from Crossfit. Calls the authors of those emails cretins and morons, and offers a $1000 bribe for the full identity of the authors.
      February 18, 2009- Massive security breach of the Crossfit Forums occur. George Mounce is granted administrator access and views the moderator forums. Mounce posts screenshots on the Couch thread. Screenshots show moderators privately making fun of individual members, referring to one as "pudgy." Moderators discuss censorship and make "Gym Jones" a banned word on the Crossfit forums. Mounce is promptly banned from the Crossfit Forums and the title below his name forever reads 'Banned for integrity and ethical violations'. Any discussion of this incident on the Crossfit forums is banned.
      February 21, 2009- With the help of some mathematical wizardry, Glassman defines a three-dimensional solid that represents the continuum between sickness, wellness, and fitness. Viewers are flabbergasted.
      April 14, 2009- "The 100 Mile Movie" project premieres. Project aimed to document Brian MacKenzie and Carl Borg complete 100 mile races using the CFE protocol. Project ends in failure as neither MacKenzie nor Borg completed any 100 mile races from that point on.
      April 22, 2009-Glassman gives a speech to the 3rd Marine Division in Okinawa, Japan. He is shown wearing wrinkled cargo pants, a wrinkled t-shirt, and hiking boots.
      April 25, 2009- Greg Glassman publicly challenges Michael Caviston (Director of Training for the Naval Special Warfare Center) to participate in a charity demonstration. Glassman suggests that the demonstration involves both Glassman and Caviston performing a deadlift while shirtless. In the same message, Glassman also makes statements that some interpret to be homophobic. No shirtless deadlift demonstration ever occurs.
      June 19, 2009- Brian Mackenzie of Crossfit Endurance declares that he refuses to "destroy his body" by completing a qualifying race to be eligible to run Western States 100. Asks permission from race directors to skip qualifer. Denied, of course.
      June 20, 2009- Respected trainer and one of the first elite Crossfitters, James "OPT" Fitzgerald, acquires "physiological symptoms of death" after completing Crossfit workout during the 2009 Crossfit Games. Describes releasing dark urine, extreme cramping and soreness, and being curled up in the fetal position -- symptoms of adrenal fatigue and rhabdomyolosis.
      July 10, 2009- Crossfit Games banner unveiled. Reads, "the strength and value of CrossFit lies entirely within our domination of other athletes. This is a truth derived through competition, not debate."
      July 12, 2009- Mikko Salo wins 2009 Crossfit Games. Subsequent interviews reveal that Salo's exercise regimen varies considerably from what it posted on crossfit.com and does not follow a paleo diet.
      August 8, 2009- Crossfit Journal pays Russell Burger to attend Gym Jones seminar offered by Mark Twight and report on his findings. Twight was not made aware that Burger was paid to write for the CFJ during the seminar.
      September 12, 2009- Glassman declares that the problem with the fitness world is that "there is too much in the way of unsubstantiated claims and too little in the way of evidence". Glassman still refuses to provide evidence for his most controversial claims.
      September 20, 2009- WildGorillaMan posts the first ever "Androgen Friday" on the Couch thread. It is a collection of photos of women, many of them very muscular, doing Crossfit exercise. Andro Friday becomes a regular occurence on the couch thread.
      October 2, 2009- John Sheaffer aka "Johnny Pain" formerly of Crossfit Grayskull resigns his affiliation and explains his frustration with Crossfit HQ.
      November 1, 2009- Carl Borg, co-founder of Crossfit Endurance, DNFs at the Javelina Jundred 100 Mile. Subsequent reports on the Crossfit Endurance website (now erased) claim that it was not because of the training.
      November 16, 2009- Crossfit Risk Retention Group (aka "The RRG") is incorporated. Affiliates are highly encouraged to pay thousands of dollars to Crossfit HQ so that they may be insured against lawsuits.
      November 20, 2009- Day one of the Crossfit Black Box Seminar begins. Well known Crossfit names such as Dave Castro, James OPT Fitzgerald, Robb Wolf, and Greg Everett are in attendance. Summit ends in fiasco as Robb Wolf and Greg Everett erupt in argument with Dave Castro. Greg Glassman refers to Greg Everett as a "novice weightlifter." Wolf and Everett end their affiliate status and dissociate from Crossfit on bad terms. Links to Robb Wolf's website and Greg Everett's website are banned on the Crossfit forum. Any discussion of the seminar are banned too. Couch thread sees sharp uptick in activity.
      November 28, 2009- Brian MacKenzie DNFs at the Quad Dipsea.
      December 2, 2009- Prolific forum author Barry Cooper writes an eloquent piece in support of the medicine ball clean. Piece is ill-placed, considering that Greg Everett was ousted from Crossfit only days before for disagreeing with the use of the medicine ball clean for teaching how to clean a barbell.
      December 13, 2009- Noted strength coach Mark Rippetoe hosts final certification with Crossfit. Ends relationship with Crossfit. Crossfit forums ban posting any links to "startingstrength.com."
      December 18, 2009- All Internet traffic from irongarmx.net to crossfit.com is redirected to various pornographic websites, such as gay S&M sites. Confirmed by many users. Redirect is removed after several weeks.
      December 24, 2009- Michael Caviston, Director of Training for the Naval Special Warfare Center, releases one of the most poignant criticisms of Crossfit methodology in relation to BUD/S preparation. Caviston acknowledges that Crossfit may be a component of BUD/S preparation but in general is inadequate and not advised.
      January 28, 2010- The first of a series of videos entitled "At the Chalkboard" is released in the Crossfit Journal. These videos show a visibly intoxicated Greg Glassman pontificating on a number of barely intelligible subjects with Tony Budding. Glassman slurs his words and at one point needs to grab onto a shelf behind him for stability. One line infamously declares that "it [Crossfit] should be more like birthday party [sic] and less like physics class."
      April 25, 2010- The Crossfit Journal releases an article by Dr. Jeffrey A. Glassman (Greg's father) entitled "The Cause of the Earth's Climate Change Is the Sun." Readers are baffled.
      May 1, 2010- Greg Glassman claims he has "Fran" and "Diane" WOD times for every starter on the Colts. Does not provide evidence.
      May 12, 2010- An article appears on gay.com about the author's experience at Crossfit Hollywood. Author says, The "athletes partaking in this endeavor were people you don’t think actually exist in real life." The word "gay" still banned on Crossfit forums.
      June 1, 2010- Crossfit Games tickets go on sale. The price to watch people exercise is $75 plus taxes and fees.
      June 2, 2010- Dave Castro explains why it's best to lift snatches with bad form in a Crossfit workout, and how to alter your form.
      June 5, 2010- WildGorillaMan releases his website, separating himself from the Andro Friday posts in the Couch thread. Site is instant hit.
      June 16, 2010- Glassman declares that the cleanliness of the bathroom in a Crossfit gym determines how good it is.
      July 5, 2010- CFE founder Brian MacKenzie's solo 41-mile run through Badwater ends in failure. Reports from his Twitter page say that his shoes melted. Interestingly enough, hundreds of athletes have managed to complete the full 135-mile journey across Badwater and managed to deal with melting shoe problems.
      October 18, 2010- Video demonstration of workout released on Crossfit website. Crossfit Director of Training Dave Castro is shown demonstrating a 24-second heavily-hitched rounded-back failed deadlift. He is congratulated for his effort.
      November 5, 2010- Couch Thread hits a million views.
      November 22, 2010- Glassman declares "We got the science." He declares Crossfit will release a study, and "this will dwarf anything ever conceived of in Framingham or Harvard Nurses."
      November 24, 2010- Andrew Wilson posts a thread entitled Just reread "CrossFit Journal on Metabolic Conditioning..." on the Performance Menu forums, owned by ousted Crossfit weightlifting coach Greg Everett. Thread rises to cult status within months and becomes known as "IGX Lite." Wilson and others offer more poignant and well-argued criticisms of Crossfit programming and methodology.
      December 11, 2010- Dave Castro states that top level decathletes like Bryan Clay "don't have that mindset to push like CrossFitters do." Other Crossfitters in the room agree.
      December 27, 2010- Glassman makes the claim that "CrossFit is the application of the fundamentals of Newtonian mechanics to human movement, something else that is kind of unique for us." Viewers are baffled, especially considering his statement on January 28 that Crossfit should be "more like birthday party [sic] and less like physics class."
      January 6, 2011- Head of Crossfit General Counsel Dale Saran publicly attacks the naysayers who claim that Crossfit "sold out" by accepting a Reebok sponsorship.
      January 12, 2011- Picture posted on the front page of Crossfit.com showing the naked butts of people while exercising. Many are displeased with the picture.
      March 16, 2011- First Crossfit Games Open workouts are released. First two workouts involve high-reps of double-unders, power snatches, box jumps, and deadlifts. Alarmingly high number of achilles ruptures are reported on the Crossfit Games website and elsewhere. Andrew Wilson aggregates notable instances on the PMenu forum.
      March 21, 2011- Crossfit Games website tells competitors that if something goes wrong when submitting their videos, that it's their fault for waiting too long. Countless people are unable to post their scores because website fails. Many complain.
      March 23, 2011 Crossfit Games website tells competitors that if they do not use exactly the weight prescribed in the workout, then it will not count. Weight for the men's workout was 75 lb or 35kg (77.16 lb). No one really understands what's going on here. Source
      June 1, 2011- Competitor magazine releases an article on Brian MacKenzie. Claims MacKenzie has completed the 135-mile Badwater Ultramarathon, yet no records of Brian MacKenzie exist anywhere on the Badwater website.
      June 6, 2011- Couch Thread hits 1000 pages.
      July 5, 2011- Tony Budding opens a Twitter account. Begins to tweet profound philosophical concepts and statements, such as "Great leadership requires keen observation (receptivity) and obdurate drive. It's a rare combination"
      July 11, 2011- Brian MacKenzie and Anthony Roberts publish an article in the Crossfit Journal suggesting that peaking for an athletic event is a waste of time. Bio for Anthony Roberts simply states which Crossfit certifications he possesses, and his picture is cropped to hide text on his jacket. Bio on Roberts' website indicates he is an authority on anabolic steroids and his jacket reads "steroids.com."
      July 14, 2011- Andrew Wilson discovers what is believed to be the 200th case of exertional rhabdomyolosis induced by a Crossfit workout.
      July 16, 2011- Crossfit Reebok store opens, selling board shorts for $60, and zip jackets for $150. Military cap claims to "ooze elite attitude" and another shirt displays a phallic symbol with a suggestive quote.
      July 22, 2011-Former elite Crossfitter Gillian Mounsey releases a very honest article on her dissatisfaction with Crossfit. Describes an epiphany that Crossfit was making her good at exercise, not athletics.

      Source: LINK I'm not going to take the time to add all the URL code for each piece, but every piece of what is above has a source in the linked document.
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 07-26-2011 at 11:40 PM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    3. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:32 PM #3
      2. Lack of Programming Oversight

      The general idea of CF is that it is a one-size-fits-all program designed to be used by the general fitness practioner and the elite athlete alike.



      Furthermore, CF claims it has been tested and proven to work.



      And is the best cardio-respiratory conditioning on the planet:



      It's a situation of "it's the best because I say it is", and Glassman does his best to publicly attack those who disagree with him.

      Failure.

      Get comfortable with it. If you’re not failing, you’re not getting better. And if you’re not getting better, you’re getting worse.

      The basis of this idea is sometimes referred to as the SAID principle: specific adaptation to imposed demand. It means your body will only adapt to the exact demands you place upon it, and it will only do so until it can meet those demands comfortably. As soon as the work can be done with ease, your body will stop adapting. Therefore, the only way to keep improving is to continue to fail.


      “Fitness Is … Character and Failure” by Blair Morrison (CrossFit Journal, Nov. 2010)
      and yet.....

      "As a side note, this is precisely how I handle my conditioning. Most of my conditioning is done without much intensity – I relax and just get a quality workout in and leave. Do this consistently enough, however, and your conditioning goes through the roof. "- - Jim Wendler
      Dan John:

      Crossfit Conundrum

      As many T-Nation readers may remember, I also trained in the Crossfit style for two years. In Tyler Hass's famous interview with Crossfit's founder, Greg Glassman, I saw another interesting promise:

      "If you come to us with a four-minute mile, six months into it you are going to be 30 seconds slower but a whole hell of a lot fitter. Similarly, if you come to us with a 900-pound squat, in six months it's going to be 750 pounds, but you, too, will be much fitter. A four-minute mile and a 900-pound squat are both clear and compelling evidence of a lack of balance in your program. This doesn't reflect the limitations of our program but the inherent nature of flesh and blood. But here's the fascinating part. We can take you from a 200-pound max deadlift to a 500-750 pound max deadlift in two years while only pulling max singles four or five times a year."

      The same issue emerges here: a four-minute mile is a world-class time which would/should/could/probab ly provide this athlete with a salary, or at least a free education. A 4:30 mile isn't unusual in a high school state meet. Certainly, there are lots of examples of students running these times well before their junior year. So, here's the rub: we're recommending a program that literally takes one from world class to solid high school performer?

      The point about the 750 pound max deadlift can only be demonstrated by the platform, but I've been around the game a long time and a 750 deadlifter is a rarity with any program anywhere. In my only powerlifting contest, I was the last successful deadlifter that night (3:00 AM, deadlifting 628; hard on the nerves, by the way) and any program that can get me to 750 with minimal deadlifting is worth a serious study.

      In this example, we see another issue. The Crossfit community took on the definition of fitness credited to Jim Crawley and Bruce Evans of Dynamax, who market an excellent medicine ball. The Crawley/Evans definition includes ten components that all of us would recognize in a moment, including strength, speed, and power.



      However, I've always used Doctor Phil Maffetone's original definition that fitness is the "ability to do a task." In his more recent works, he's changed the definition to "the ability to be physically active." I like the original.

      Why do I love the original definition? Maffetone's great insight was that he separated "health" from "fitness." Health is the "harmony" of the organs to operate "optimally." Fitness is task-based. I think fitness is throwing the discus far. I could set up an entire website that has this single definition.

      Now, I recognize the limitations, but most fitness professionals don't. We tend to coach from our life experiences, a lesson that's absolutely correct. The problem is that we sometimes forget that "my goals" might not be "your goals."

      By doing something as simple as changing or grasping on to a single definition of fitness, one can completely miss the point of training. Sending a discus thrower to train with elite bodybuilders is as mad as sending elite bodybuilders to train with me.

      Recently, in a telephone discussion with Mark Reifkind, an elite coach, bodybuilder, powerlifter, and author, he made a point so obvious that I simply have nearly stopped thinking since he mentioned it. "If you want to know about fat loss or muscle building, ask top level bodybuilders. These guys know it."

      In other words, quit buying fat loss devices off of the late night TV ads from former sitcom actors, quit buying "fat loss" stuff that grandma tried when her cribbage partner mentioned it, and quit trying fad diets. Instead, listen to the best of the best.
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 08-03-2011 at 02:33 PM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    4. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:33 PM #4
      3. Injuries: Specifically SLAP Tears, Achilles Ruptures, and Rhabdo


      From here

      How does a SLAP Tear Occur?

      Now that we have discussed the different types and classification of SLAP tears to the superior labrum, I wanted to now talk about how these shoulder injuries occur. There are several injury mechanisms that are speculated to be responsible for creating a SLAP lesion. These mechanisms range from single traumatic events to repetitive microtraumatic injuries.
      [...]
      Repetitive Overhead Activities

      Repetitive overhead activity, such as throwing a baseball and other overhead sports, is another common mechanism of injury frequently responsible for producing SLAP injuries. This is the type of SLAP lesion that we most often see in our athletes. In 1985, Dr. Andrews first hypothesized that SLAP pathology in overhead throwing athletes was the result of the high eccentric activity of the biceps brachii during the arm deceleration and follow-through phases of the overhead throw. To determine this, they applied electrical stimulation to the biceps during arthroscopic evaluation and noted that the biceps contraction raised the labrum off of the glenoid rim.

      Burkhart and Morgan have hypothesized a “peel back” mechanism that produces SLAP lesion in the overhead athlete. They suggest that when the shoulder is placed in a position of abduction and maximal external rotation, the rotation produces a twist at the base of the biceps, transmitting torsional force to the anchor.


      This mechanism has received a lot of attention and several studies seem to show its accuracy. Pradham measured superior labral strain in a cadaveric model during each phase of the throwing motion. They noted that increased superior labral strain occurred during the late-cocking phase of throwing. A recent study from ASMI simulated each of these mechanisms using cadaveric models. Nine pairs of cadaveric shoulders were loaded to biceps anchor complex failure in either a position of simulated in-line loading (similar to the deceleration phase of throwing) or simulated peel back mechanism (similar to the cocking phase of overhead throwing). Results showed that 7 of 8 of the in-line loading group failed in the midsubstance of the biceps tendon with 1 of 8 fracturing at the supraglenoid tubercle. However, all 8 of the simulated peel back group failures resulted in a type II SLAP lesion.
      [...]
      In theory, SLAP lesions most likely occur in overhead athletes from a combination of these 2 previously described forces. The eccentric biceps activity during deceleration may serve to weaken the biceps-labrum complex, while the torsional peel back force may result in the posterosuperior detachment of the labral anchor.

      SLAP lesions occur quite often in pitchers, due to the forces placed on the shoulder at overhead angles.



      And at the bottom of a kipping pullup:




      Strength Coach Mike Boyle Predicts kipping pullups cause shoulder trauma Also: "The fundamental rule of olympic weightlifting: don't do more than six reps"

      AS FOR RHABDO:
      The posts from people who have gotten it specifically from CF programming are many and I won't post them all. I will give you an example of the thought process in play, with a guest appearance by one of our own!





      Want more? Check out the CF Injury Forum
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 08-05-2011 at 12:40 AM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    5. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:34 PM #5
      4. CrossFit or Metabolic Conditioning?

      Glassman would have you believe CF is something new.

      Page 31 from Supertraining (Siff Verkhoshansky 1999, 4th edition):



      The vast majority of WODs use complex, Olympic movements for their the quickest time or a high rep range.

      This CF coach disagrees with that idea.

      4) Olympic Lifts in MetCons

      Huge beef of mine. HUGE. HAY-OOGE!! There's not really much I can say here that hasn't been said a helluva lot more eloquently than Greg Everett himself; in fact, he has a 3 part series on utilizing the Olympic lifts in a group setting in the Performance Menu Journal that goes over everything quite well. A well put quote from part 1: "How do you incorporate Olympic lifts in a metabolic conditioning workout in a group setting? Easy answer: You Don't" Well said.

      "Technique goes down as fatigue increases". This is a direct statement from the Crossfit Level 1 certification. So tell me, where does 30 clean and jerks for time fit into this? Take a movement that requires a massive amount of technical proficiency, slap a moderate/heavy load on, and try and blaze through as fast as you can for TIME? You have got to be ****ing kidding me. If that ain't a recipe for disaster, then I'm not sure what is. Very, very few people can pull off that kind of intensity and maintain technique. A group setting of various levels of skill? Coaches nightmare.

      Now, "Grace", aka 30 - 135# clean and jerks for time, is a fairly extreme exception, as are "Isabel" (Josh Everett's lightning fast performance even demonstrates technique lapse during 30 135# snatches---and he's one of the best) and "Randy" (75 power snatches at 75# for time---and I'd like to point out that I witnessed Coach Brandt do this with impeccable form. I mean perfect. So it can be done.), but this still holds true, in my opinion, for anything over the 3 rep range. AND especially combined with other elements of a metcon that induce massive anaerobic, aerobic, and central nervous system fatigue. Try busting out 15 snatches at 95# after a 400m sprint. Yeah, messy.

      Metcons should be designed around fully functional movements that require the least amount of technical proficiency possible---pushups, bodyweight squats, overhead press, pullups, sprinting, rowing, wall ball shots. These movements, in my opinion, are much safer under fatigue that complex compound movements like the Olympic snatch, the clean and jerk, and to a lesser degree, the deadlift, push jerk, and push press.
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 08-03-2011 at 12:20 AM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    6. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:34 PM #6
      5. CrossFit's Biggest H&F Defender's Reasons Why CrossFit is Revolutionary

      From here and elsewhere.

      -Crossfit has military and paramilitary application that is incorporated into the civilian world using a comprehensive program.

      -Crossfit challenges conventional methods of training by taking a generalist approach as opposed to a specialist approach.

      -Crossfit has no emphasis on reaching some arbitrary number that a person should be able to lift by an arbitrary date.

      Really? Here are the events for the Regionals to qualify for the games: Link Those hoping to qualify for the Games probably have a different opinion on dates and numbers.


      -Crossfit puts the emphasis on the individual and not trivial things such as having bigger muscles than you did the day before.

      -Crossfit avoids the plateau-effect many people experience while training using the traditional method.

      -Crossfit essentially has personal trainers/instructors present during all WOD. One does not have to sign-up for sessions.

      -Crossfit is more challenging because the mode and intensity of training can be adjusted/modified in a more timely fashion, using less space and less equipment.

      -Crossfit has a continuous and seamless blend of aerobic and anaerobic activity with all WODs. Unlike traditional methods which can be segmented and again very time consuming.

      -Crossfit practices unit cohesiveness that is all but absent in most traditional gyms.

      -Crossfit eliminates the "fish-bowl" feeling members in tradition gyms often experience, only to feel discouraged, envious, or pressured.

      -Crossfit aims to stimulate/engage its participants cognitively, emotionally and physically, all at once with every session.

      -Crossfit is less time consuming. WODs take 1/3 to 1/2 of the time it takes to workout at a typical gym, using typical methods.

      -There is no waiting for machines

      -Crossfit eliminates the presence of marketing ploys such as trainers/sale-reps on the training floor.

      -Crossfit is not limited to working out inside a building. It can be incorporated at a fraction of the cost it takes to create a traditional gym.

      -Crossfit can appeal to a younger demographic who are prohibited by law in most areas from training in traditional gyms adding a new dynamic which addresses childhood illnesses associated with inactive youth.

      -Crossfit addresses individual weaknesses without input from the individual, such as, a person who chooses to bench everyday while their legs are weak and underdeveloped.
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 08-03-2011 at 02:44 PM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    7. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:35 PM #7
      The Myth of Functional Strength
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 07-26-2011 at 11:44 PM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    8. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 12:36 PM #8
      7. Lack of Quality Control

      Elbows down?


      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 08-03-2011 at 12:23 AM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    9. 07-26-2011 12:41 PM #9
      I like the idea of this, you essentially have your own stickies within a non-sticked thread, that way you can post points you want to post.
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      07-26-2011 12:45 PM #10
      Yes, and the touchpad on my laptop is acting up so I have to wait until I'm at home to do more.

      Ultimately I'll keep building on this as more info comes out.
      It's all about squats and deads.


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      07-26-2011 02:16 PM #12
      Leaky, are you one of the dudes around here that doesn't do any cardio and lifts heavy for a rep or two and then proceeds to talk about fitness? I have lost track and don't remember, so if not, carry on.

      Definitely not pro crossfit, but just want to make sure we know our source first.

    12. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 02:25 PM #13
      I max out on bench press every day then proceed to pop my zits in the mirror.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    13. 07-26-2011 02:28 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      Leaky, are you one of the dudes around here that doesn't do any cardio and lifts heavy for a rep or two and then proceeds to talk about fitness? I have lost track and don't remember, so if not, carry on.

      Definitely not pro crossfit, but just want to make sure we know our source first.
      This is a pretty stupid point to make Dras. Should no one ever critique the President if they've never held a government position?

      Powerlifting certainly has its downfalls, but then again, the sport or its participants don't make any claims of "being the fittest people in the world," either...

      Also these guys don't do any cardio, and mostly lift for heavy singles (except with squats they do sets of 5 frequently) are they not qualified to talk about fitness?

    14. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 02:37 PM #15
      And besides, for the most part this is not going to be a bunch of my personal opinions. I'm done doing that. Lots of links, pictures, and info gathered from actual experts in the fitness industry. (Hint: they don't just hold CF certs)
      It's all about squats and deads.

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      07-26-2011 02:42 PM #16
      Hey hey hey, I don't want to fight. I just don't remember who around here falls into the catagory I mentioned and I think that it's important that if people were going to read bashing of something, that they know who it is coming from. If leaky is just going to post facts and whatnot, then by all means.

      Honestly, I know it sounds like I was taking a jab, but I wasn't.

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      07-26-2011 03:01 PM #17
      I thought Leaky was one of the guys who actually runs and partakes of running events?

    17. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-26-2011 03:14 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by firefighterjunkie View Post
      I thought Leaky was one of the guys who actually runs and partakes of running events?
      I do to change things up. Probably do another half marathon next year. I actually have a 5k this weekend. My buddy is trying to get me to do one of the 4ish mile mud run type deals, but I don't know if I'm "elite" enough for that. haha

      I'd much rather be lifting heavy weights, though. I'm good at it, and it is more rewarding to me. Im interested in all sorts of fitness activities, though.
      Last edited by leakypipeDCI; 07-26-2011 at 03:25 PM.
      It's all about squats and deads.

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      07-26-2011 03:30 PM #19
      What kind of training do you for your half marathon? Are you going to mix in long runs in-between weight work?

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      07-26-2011 03:45 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      What kind of training do you for your half marathon? Are you going to mix in long runs in-between weight work?
      Last year? Zero. Next year? Maybe up to five miles. Powerlifting will always be #1 for me. I'm planning on climbing Rainier next year as well, so training for that will help.

      Plus, I'd much rather be home playing with my kids than pounding out miles.
      It's all about squats and deads.

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      07-26-2011 05:26 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      Leaky, are you one of the dudes around here that doesn't do any cardio and lifts heavy for a rep or two and then proceeds to talk about fitness? I have lost track and don't remember, so if not, carry on.

      Definitely not pro crossfit, but just want to make sure we know our source first.
      I think that would more fall onto me but.... I have no clue what I am doing

      Running ewwwwwwww.

      Also this thread looks like awesomeness

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      07-27-2011 11:06 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      I do to change things up. Probably do another half marathon next year. I actually have a 5k this weekend. My buddy is trying to get me to do one of the 4ish mile mud run type deals, but I don't know if I'm "elite" enough for that. haha

      I'd much rather be lifting heavy weights, though. I'm good at it, and it is more rewarding to me. Im interested in all sorts of fitness activities, though.

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      07-27-2011 11:30 AM #23
      hey leaky, where are you getting all the info from, like the time line in the second post?
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    23. Member leakypipeDCI's Avatar
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      07-27-2011 12:40 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      hey leaky, where are you getting all the info from, like the time line in the second post?
      The timeline and pictures above came from the Catalyst Athletics forum. The members there have gathered quite a bit of info, and are keeping a running rhabdo count. Currently at 215 but will probably hit 300 soon with the CF Games coming up.
      It's all about squats and deads.

    24. 07-27-2011 02:28 PM #25

    25. 07-27-2011 02:37 PM #26
      I'll say what everybody else is thinking... where's Matt D to chime in?
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      07-27-2011 02:56 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by tweezy! View Post
      That's some serious athleticism, CF or no.

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      07-27-2011 03:23 PM #28
      couldn't agree more

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      07-27-2011 03:34 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by tweezy! View Post
      thats pretty damn good. Was there no warm up before he went into that?
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    29. 07-27-2011 03:40 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by leakypipeDCI View Post
      THE CASE AGAINST CROSSFIT
      ...and to warn others who may be interested in this often dangerous fad.
      So you must reeaalllly hate cf to spend the time req'd to gather & assemble this much information...its bordering on obsessive but its impressive none the less. I just think that with cf's growth since the start of this decade and the recent partnership with reebok and companies like espn broadcasting the games this weekend, not to mention the $250,000 prize going to the top male & female competitor that it can't be considered a 'fad', regardless of whatever your own personal opinions might be or philosophical differences you have with the training methodology or the company's ceo.

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      07-27-2011 04:13 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Sealab2k21 View Post
      So you must reeaalllly hate cf to spend the time req'd to gather & assemble this much information...its bordering on obsessive but its impressive none the less. I just think that with cf's growth since the start of this decade and the recent partnership with reebok and companies like espn broadcasting the games this weekend, not to mention the $250,000 prize going to the top male & female competitor that it can't be considered a 'fad', regardless of whatever your own personal opinions might be or philosophical differences you have with the training methodology or the company's ceo.
      slamball and xfl had sponsors and financial backing too, doesnt make them credible. is that really your only answer to all the information being portrayed? well reebok is endorsing them so it means its legit?
      Ferrari Scuderia 2012 - "The people who speak badly about me then tremble and cry when they want to have their picture taken with me” - F. Alonso
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      07-27-2011 04:24 PM #32
      Well, there really hasn't been much information being presented other than a one sided view, which makes sense considering the title of the thread. All this continues to show me is that the CF workouts are good, when combined with other strength and cardio training. And that most crossfitters are knuckleheads.

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      07-27-2011 04:35 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by NyteGTI View Post
      I'll say what everybody else is thinking... where's Matt D to chime in?
      He's too busy in OT proving that he's smarter than anyone else. Groupthink again.
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      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

    33. 07-27-2011 04:45 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by ClockworkChad View Post
      slamball and xfl had sponsors and financial backing too, doesnt make them credible. is that really your only answer to all the information being portrayed? well reebok is endorsing them so it means its legit?

      My post wasn't meant to be a rebuttal to any of his comments, I thought it was very well put together and I just don't see the value in beating a dead horse. I only took exception to labeling crossfit as a fad (aka - a temporary fashion, notion or manner of conduct) - which in my opinion its already outlived the life of. I'm not sure on what basis your comparing crossfit to slamball and the xfl, yes they had financial backing too but the difference is that crossfit got to where it is today without that backing.

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      07-27-2011 04:48 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Sealab2k21 View Post
      My post wasn't meant to be a rebuttal to any of his comments, I thought it was very well put together and I just don't see the value in beating a dead horse. I only took exception to labeling crossfit as a fad (aka - a temporary fashion, notion or manner of conduct) - which in my opinion its already outlived the life of. I'm not sure on what basis your comparing crossfit to slamball and the xfl, yes they had financial backing too but the difference is that crossfit got to where it is today without that backing.
      Crossfit had good marketing.
      Quote Originally Posted by winstonsmith84 View Post
      Tax? I don't mind paying state sales tax. Every time a see a pothole, a school that is falling down or a canceled essential state program, I remind myself why.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tornado2dr View Post
      535 members of congress plus 1 pres screwing us all the time...that's dirty pirate hooker level gang rape.

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