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    Thread: I test drove a 2012 Jeep Wrangler

    1. Member AllieJetta's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 09:36 AM #106
      I miss my 2010 JKU. Anyone know when the pricing for the 2012 JK's will be available on Jeep.com??

    2. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 09:40 AM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      All this talk about air conditioning makes me laugh. If it's warm enough for A/C I'm taking the top and doors off. Most useless option ever on a Jeep.

      Absolutely 150% disagree with that statement.

      Very easy to make that claim living in Canada where your hot isn't quite the same as everywhere else. I won't make comments about what you do in the cold, you don't make comments about what I do in the hot ok?

      First off 100 degrees down here sitting in traffic the LAST thing you want is the top down. My phone actually overheated and shut down sitting on the passenger seat while stuck in traffic back in May.. not july not august.. MAY! I was driving around at the time with a wool hat on to keep my hair from catching on fire. I haven't put the top down in about 2 months because it is just flat out way too hot, maybe late september i'll put it down again.

      All windows out and door tops taking a 30 minute drive without even hitting traffic I show up some place and have to change since I am soaked through shirt, shorts and all.

      Just went on vacation and I had planned to take the jeep but the GF nixed it due to the lack of AC. at first I Was pissed but then i was extremely glad we didn't as it was in the middle of that heatwave. We were camping the way back from waterfest and we'd have just packed up and headed home without the AC in the rental car.

      I'll be figuring out how to fit the AC in with the cummins in the next few weeks.

    3. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 09:42 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by Heffernan View Post
      :drool:

      Funny she'd drool if she saw your profile since right now she is selling it (to me) to buy an outback.

      Luckily I convinced her last night that I should get my JSW first so she can drive that while I sell my mk4 to pay for the TJ giving her money to put down on the outback.

    4. 08-09-2011 09:54 AM #109
      When I went looking for a vehicle for my son, safety was the only priority over price. For $21G he got a base JK with 4 wheel drive, no air, no power windows. He got good solid transportation with Stability control, roadside assistance, warranty. Not a bad deal in my books, especially since we have winter for what feels like 9 months of the year, and we live 40 kms away from the city.

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      08-09-2011 09:55 AM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Absolutely 150% disagree with that statement.

      Very easy to make that claim living in Canada where your hot isn't quite the same as everywhere else. I won't make comments about what you do in the cold, you don't make comments about what I do in the hot ok?

      First off 100 degrees down here sitting in traffic the LAST thing you want is the top down. My phone actually overheated and shut down sitting on the passenger seat while stuck in traffic back in May.. not july not august.. MAY! I was driving around at the time with a wool hat on to keep my hair from catching on fire. I haven't put the top down in about 2 months because it is just flat out way too hot, maybe late september i'll put it down again.

      All windows out and door tops taking a 30 minute drive without even hitting traffic I show up some place and have to change since I am soaked through shirt, shorts and all.

      Just went on vacation and I had planned to take the jeep but the GF nixed it due to the lack of AC. at first I Was pissed but then i was extremely glad we didn't as it was in the middle of that heatwave. We were camping the way back from waterfest and we'd have just packed up and headed home without the AC in the rental car.

      I'll be figuring out how to fit the AC in with the cummins in the next few weeks.
      I used to be staunchly anti-AC in my Jeeps, but like you point out there are definitely circumstances where top and doors off don't bring any real relief.

      1.Women hate sweating. Going somewhere with your GF, wife, mother, sister, etc, on a 90% humidity/90 degree day, and they will refuse to ride along with you without AC.

      2.Going somewhere where you don't want to smell like a sweaty pig. Going out on a date, job interview, going to work, going out with friends, etc...

      3.Hot and humid as balls+torrential downpour=top up/doors on/AC on

      If I am just driving by myself, and not going anywhere where I am concerned about offending anyone with my sweaty smell, I rarely use the AC in most other situations.

    6. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:07 AM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Would it be better to buy a Passat or buy a jetta and upgrade it to a Passat?

      You aren't comparing the same vehicles for those prices.

      23K is for a 2door and 35K is for a loaded 4 door, you can't turn a 23K one into a 35K one.
      Sorry, $25k for the base model Unlimited. FFS man, I obviously wasn't suggesting that 2 doors could be added.

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      08-09-2011 10:08 AM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      I never claimed that the $35k wasn't justified, did I? All I was really saying is that when you think of a Wrangler it's always been a mental image, at least to me, of an absolute barebones vehicle that is awesome for crawling up a trail or heading out to the beach. Do you really have to buy the top model to do all that? I didn't think so. Did they even have a Rubicon-type model 10 years ago?

      Why would I compare a Camry to a Jeep? I've always wanted a Jeep (still do) but if it came down to it and I could only have one vehicle I'd probably rather have a $32k loaded Optima than a $35k Jeep considering the type of driving that I do on the daily. But that's irrelevant to the thread.
      There was a Rubicon model with the TJ Jeeps. Even further back, the YJs offered a fully loaded Renegade model. In 1991 the Renegade stickered for about $19K when the base Wrangler was around $12K. The Renegade was largely a styling and luxury "upgrade" (ugly as sin, IMO), however it still shows that there is a history of Wranglers offering a model above "barebones".

      The comparison between Camrys and Jeeps was meant to gauge priorties. A lot of people have no problem putting down 30-large for a plebian sedan or minivan, but you are aghast at the thought of Jeep costing as much or more. It's all about preference and priorities. You'd rather have a $32K Kia, and I prefered to spend my $32K on a Wrangler. Different strokes...

    8. Member Tokyosmash's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:15 AM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel! View Post
      That must be a typo, because the Rubicon is basically a Sahara with upgraded transfer case, diffs, axles, and such.
      Rubicon has Dana 44s front and rear, a 4.10 rear, different transfer, electric locking differentials (were air lockers on TJ Rubi's) an electric sway bar disconnect, different tires IIRC and more.

    9. Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:23 AM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Absolutely 150% disagree with that statement.

      Very easy to make that claim living in Canada where your hot isn't quite the same as everywhere else. I won't make comments about what you do in the cold, you don't make comments about what I do in the hot ok?

      First off 100 degrees down here sitting in traffic the LAST thing you want is the top down. My phone actually overheated and shut down sitting on the passenger seat while stuck in traffic back in May.. not july not august.. MAY! I was driving around at the time with a wool hat on to keep my hair from catching on fire. I haven't put the top down in about 2 months because it is just flat out way too hot, maybe late september i'll put it down again.

      All windows out and door tops taking a 30 minute drive without even hitting traffic I show up some place and have to change since I am soaked through shirt, shorts and all.

      Just went on vacation and I had planned to take the jeep but the GF nixed it due to the lack of AC. at first I Was pissed but then i was extremely glad we didn't as it was in the middle of that heatwave. We were camping the way back from waterfest and we'd have just packed up and headed home without the AC in the rental car.

      I'll be figuring out how to fit the AC in with the cummins in the next few weeks.
      I think you're making the assumption that it doesn't get hot or humid here in Ontario at all, and you'd be very, very wrong. I've spent quite a bit of time in Georgia. My point is, if it's warm enough for A/C it's warm enough for the top to be off. Also, i'm a grown man so I don't daily drive my "toys" or take them to formal occasions that would require me not to get dirty/sweaty. Kind of like how i wouldn't wear a tux to a wedding on a motorcycle.

    10. Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:24 AM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash View Post
      Rubicon has Dana 44s front and rear, a 4.10 rear, different transfer, electric locking differentials (were air lockers on TJ Rubi's) an electric sway bar disconnect, different tires IIRC and more.
      I love how people always go on about the Dana 44's on the Rubicons. Do some research into what you're really buying, it isn't much of an upgrade. (This is coming from a guy with an 04 Rubicon on 37's with long-arms and tons of mods including upgraded axle-shafts).

    11. Member Pinstripe's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:26 AM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by Tokyosmash View Post
      Rubicon has Dana 44s front and rear, a 4.10 rear, different transfer, electric locking differentials (were air lockers on TJ Rubi's) an electric sway bar disconnect, different tires IIRC and more.
      The 4:1 is now an optional $50 on the Rubicon models with automatics.
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDarkEnergist View Post
      The fact that some people here are able to make words on a keyboard and find the "submit reply" button really has me in awe.
      Quote Originally Posted by Internal Combustion View Post
      Not sure if serious, so I'll put it in terms you can understand: your and idiot.

    12. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:28 AM #117
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      Sorry, $25k for the base model Unlimited. FFS man, I obviously wasn't suggesting that 2 doors could be added.
      You made a comparison of two vehicles that were not the same to attempt to exaggerate the lack of value I was just pointing out it was smaller than you were trying to show.

      If you bought a soft top unlimited for 25.5K it would cost you at least 10K to duplicate what came in a 35K rubicon. The hard top alone I think is close to 2500 bucks after the fact. Dana 44s with lockers will cost you a few grand, similar tires are a few hundred a piece. At least full doors are standard on the JKs, but i think the set of half doors are a few grand unpainted.

    13. Member Tokyosmash's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:29 AM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      I love how people always go on about the Dana 44's on the Rubicons. Do some research into what you're really buying, it isn't much of an upgrade. (This is coming from a guy with an 04 Rubicon on 37's with long-arms and tons of mods including upgraded axle-shafts).
      Yeah, yeah, they're still 44s and having a 44 in the front is better than a 30.
      Last edited by Tokyosmash; 08-09-2011 at 10:35 AM.

    14. Member MCTB's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:36 AM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by NitroNSX View Post
      No actually, I was just focused on the Pentastar.

      Mall crawler wrangler = does not compute.
      All of this arguing over what a Rubicon packaged Jeep can do is hilarious. Most will NEVER see more than a gravel road. Others will be built up and have 33's or more slapped on and do nothing more than cruise the mall. Its true.

      Quote Originally Posted by Elbows View Post
      Jeeps are cool little trucks, but cripes...$36K is a heck of a lot for that.
      I agree. Never going to spend that much on a Jeep. MSRP on a Jeep is pretty much what you are going to pay for it. All other competitors out there are willing to cut you a deal and you can get something more comfortable, like a T4R, just as good off road and delivers better economy, for less money.

      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel! View Post
      Take the top off and go for a drive on a Forest Service road. They don't make sense otherwise. They can be daily driven, but they're not commuter cars and it doesn't make sense to me to judge them on commuter car criteria. Think of the Wrangler as being the offroad equivalent of an Elise or a F450; people can and do daily drive them, but their talents shine elsewhere, and people put up with 'em because they're cool as hell and enormously talented in one clearly defined area.
      Right, because thats where everyone drives them. The average person doesnt know that they can find trails in any national forest. Most Wranglers will not see the trail. Ever. They are driven around because they can take the roof and doors off. The Jeep HAS to be a good commuter car as thats what they will be. Its not that they might be DDs, its more that they WILL be. If Jeep didnt care, do you think they wouldve overhauled the interior? Dont think so. They wouldve kept it just as crappy as it was before. For someone who touts the "toughness" of the interior, you should be against the redo. Light colors are just going to get dirty and be harder to keep from staining.

      Quote Originally Posted by Turbiodiesel! View Post
      They're still simple and functional. That's the loaded model, but it's still insanely capable, mechanically simple, and very tough.
      Simple? Dont think so. Not for a long time have they been that.

      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      I daily mine (technically GFs) TJ with a cummins swap. It is one of my favorite vehicles EVER. I had a 2012 focus rental for a week and a half got back in the TJ and before I even moved I was giggling in excitement as i pulled the windows out and fired it up. You thought your gfs was loud and course HA try it with 3.9 liter diesel out of a steamroller! But it just makes it even more fun. Got home and I couldn't stop grinning.

      There is no reason at all they should be as much fun as they are and having the diesel just makes it even more addicting.

      I really want a 4door one but after having the cummins I could never have a gas wrangler. While I had no problems getting this one titled as a diesel to avoid issues with emissions in GA again I don't trust the next time would be so easy, really don't want to risk the swap on a 4 door only to find out I can't register it. If I knew I could pull it off easily enough I'd have a white with black roof 4 door cummins rubicon at home already
      I wouldnt do it. As soon as someone figures out that youve got a medium duty diesel in a light duty application and that its actually illegal, you might have some trouble. Not to mention that by swapping in that lump of a motor (Im not a fan of 4BT swap in anything but 1500 and up pickups), you kill the OBDII system and once your state starts to enforce the 96+ OBD emissions inspections (yes, that includes diesels now), youll get the instant fail. I will agree that a diesel is great. It is the only motor that should be in a vehicle like an SUV. I dont agree that its should be an 750 pounds + accessories hanging off the front end. Take that nose heavy Jeep down a trail and you might change your mind.

      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      How much should a current factory production vehicle cost that has 4wd with a 4:1 low range, plus selectable locking diffs front and rear (real lockers, not fake poser electronic simulations), plus a cockpit-disconnectable front swaybar? Oh, and don't forget the four doors and the true convertible top, in this case a 3-piece removable hardtop. In fact, how many other vehicles are there on the American market that currently offer all this at any price?
      No one else offers it right now but they did. If the manufacturers that used to sell a competitor brought one out again, I think that the Jeep would drop in sales. If Ford released a real Bronco (like the 66-76) or Toyota built a real FJ (not that submarine like/ different bodied T4R FJC), Jeep sales would be done. Since no one does, the Jeep sells. Since no one does, Jeep can ask whatever they want for it. BTW, sometimes "real" lockers are a hindrance and a system like ATRACS is much better. Sorry but its true. You can keep your electronic everything else too. Give me manual pins on my sway bar (I play in the mud and rocks and wires get snagged and break). Give me manual hubs so I can completely freewheel my front end to cut down on wear. Give me a gear driven transfer case (chain driven NPs have a habit of exploding when pushed as their cases arent that strong) and I will take it in something between 3.3 and 3.8:1 (4:1 is nice to say but in real life, you really dont need gearing that low unless all you do are large rocks).

      Quote Originally Posted by G2BForReal View Post
      Here is my friends solution. He custom built the trailer himself at home. The lid opens up, even with the tent on although not when it is set up. There is a ton of room for pretty much anything he needs to haul, leaving the Jeep free of "stuff" and clutter.

      Pretty slick set up in my opinion.

      Have you ever been stuck behind someone with a trailer on a trail? Probably not since you seem to like them that much. You just took a maneuverable Jeep and made it completely the opposite. So completely idiotic. Add switchbacks or tight turns to a trail and if youre running tailgunner, might as well pull the brake and relax a while. Trailer? Check. Roof Top Tent? Check. Expo aids spreading? Check.

    15. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:36 AM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      I think you're making the assumption that it doesn't get hot or humid here in Ontario at all, and you'd be very, very wrong. I've spent quite a bit of time in Georgia. My point is, if it's warm enough for A/C it's warm enough for the top to be off. Also, i'm a grown man so I don't daily drive my "toys" or take them to formal occasions that would require me not to get dirty/sweaty. Kind of like how i wouldn't wear a tux to a wedding on a motorcycle.
      I'm fully aware it does get hot and humid there but not to this level.

      You won't find anyone driving around with the top down on a convertible or jeep right now because it is just way too hot. Warm enough for AC and too hot to be exposed in traffic are two entirely different things.

      Who said anything about formal occasions. I went to meet a friend on saturday to check out his YJ diff. There were dowpours on the way but it was also 90+, top couldn't be down no ac, windows /doors out so I could breath with the humidity and i was soaked with both rain and sweat. Jeep was the appropriate vehicle for the event. IF had AC it would have been cranking and I would have been dry.

      I plan to wear tuxedo shorts and probably ride a bike to my wedding actually, I'm man enough to call the shots and do what I want


      not every jeep moment works with the top down and not every region is top down a substitue for no AC.

      For the record ATL also gets more rain then most of the northwest which everyone thinks is rainy. AC is also really helpful in clearing up fogged windows when its pouring and hot as hell so your inteior is like a sauna.

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      08-09-2011 10:39 AM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      I used to be staunchly anti-AC in my Jeeps, but like you point out there are definitely circumstances where top and doors off don't bring any real relief.

      1.Women hate sweating. Going somewhere with your GF, wife, mother, sister, etc, on a 90% humidity/90 degree day, and they will refuse to ride along with you without AC.
      I've got the vagina in that situation.. I HATE HATE HATE heat. I came home last week and the capacitor on my AC condensor had asploded. It was 85 in my house and humid as hell it was actually cooler/dryer outside! GF sitting on the couch didn't even notice. But I sit in a cool AC'd office all day and she works outside with animals so it was probably cooler for her.

    17. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:40 AM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      You made a comparison of two vehicles that were not the same to attempt to exaggerate the lack of value I was just pointing out it was smaller than you were trying to show.

      If you bought a soft top unlimited for 25.5K it would cost you at least 10K to duplicate what came in a 35K rubicon. The hard top alone I think is close to 2500 bucks after the fact. Dana 44s with lockers will cost you a few grand, similar tires are a few hundred a piece. At least full doors are standard on the JKs, but i think the set of half doors are a few grand unpainted.
      No. I was looking at prices of the Unlimiteds at Jeep.com and typed 23 instead of a 25. It was a mistake. You made the assumption that I was comparing two different vehicles- which is ridiculous since one has 2 door and the other has 4...

      Furthermore I was asking a legitimate question. I was not trying to make any point or exaggerate anything. Instead of asking for clarification you assumed that I was trying to play with the numbers to make some stupid point.

      I wanted to know, for my own info, if I would be better off spending the premium for a Rubicon or could go with a lesser model and do the necessary upgrades myself for less. Was Jeep actually pricing the Rubicon out as a good deal, or charging a premium because the Rubicon is RTF?

      You have finally answered my question- but the amount of bull**** I had to go through to get it is just staggering...all because I typed 23 instead of 25...

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      08-09-2011 10:47 AM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by morecarsthanbrains View Post

      I wouldnt do it. As soon as someone figures out that youve got a medium duty diesel in a light duty application and that its actually illegal, you might have some trouble. Not to mention that by swapping in that lump of a motor (Im not a fan of 4BT swap in anything but 1500 and up pickups), you kill the OBDII system and once your state starts to enforce the 96+ OBD emissions inspections (yes, that includes diesels now), youll get the instant fail. I will agree that a diesel is great. It is the only motor that should be in a vehicle like an SUV. I dont agree that its should be an 750 pounds + accessories hanging off the front end. Take that nose heavy Jeep down a trail and you might change your mind.

      GA has been doing obdII emissions for a long long time now, there are no plans I am aware of to include diesels. I'm fully up on the emissions stuff and actually knew about the new tests where they clear codes and recheck readiness before people who actually do those tests did.

      My title is a diesel and exempt. GA is not very retro active with things and if they add diesel emissions inspections it will most likely only be new vehicles going forward. We contacted the state numerous times before starting the swap and everyone we spoke to (have it in writing) said we were cool to go ahead. Walked into the tax commissioners office showed documentation for the swap and the title was changed. Federally yeah well that is another question

      As for the swap, yes its about 300lbs heavier then a 4.0, I needed 2" spacers to level it out. It runs like snot and would never go back to a gasser in a jeep.

      On the trail? it wasn't that tough of a trail but the last time I had it out I was 2wd only since I still have the 4.10s in the front (3.09s in the rear) so no 4wd for me. I was making it up and over things easier then any of the 4wd gassers in the group. Back up a little and just charge front end would just pop up and over anything in my way. Only things I went around was the deep mud.


      4bt in a 1500 or larger is a waste of your time and money, the engine is underpowered for a vehicle that size and a 3/4 ton you could just buy with a real sized cummins.


      For the record I am all for emissions I've got cats on my 350hp 1.8t and 600hp 2.0t...

    19. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:48 AM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post

      You have finally answered my question- but the amount of bull**** I had to go through to get it is just staggering...all because I typed 23 instead of 25...
      They were all actually answered previously by myself and others.

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      08-09-2011 10:50 AM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      I think you're making the assumption that it doesn't get hot or humid here in Ontario at all, and you'd be very, very wrong. I've spent quite a bit of time in Georgia. My point is, if it's warm enough for A/C it's warm enough for the top to be off. Also, i'm a grown man so I don't daily drive my "toys" or take them to formal occasions that would require me not to get dirty/sweaty. Kind of like how i wouldn't wear a tux to a wedding on a motorcycle.
      Holy crap, a heat wave in Ontario this year hit 100, a record high. GTFO with your mild summers.

      Quote Originally Posted by The Weather Channel
      Here's a look at how the past summers in Toronto stack up when it comes to days with 30°C temperatures or higher:

      2005 -- 42 days
      2006 -- 20 days
      2007 -- 24 days
      2008 -- 10 days
      2009 -- 3 days
      Holy crap, you had 3 days last year that hit 86F! Sound the alarms!

    21. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:54 AM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      They were all actually answered previously by myself and others.
      "They"? I'm talking about my 1 question about the value of the Rubicon's upgrades over the base model. That wasn't answered until your post, #117...

    22. 08-09-2011 10:54 AM #127
      Take a quick peek at the remaining 2011s to get a grasp of how overpriced these things are. 2 door Rubicons can still be found selling for $34k+. Frankly, if people buy them for that much, then by all means continue selling them for that. But for people that care about value, that is the deal breaker. The base models (starting at 22k) still don't come with power doors or locks.

      Regardless, Jeeps are still awesome and I will own one someday. Just not a brand new JK.

    23. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 10:58 AM #128
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      "They"? I'm talking about my 1 question about the value of the Rubicon's upgrades over the base model. That wasn't answered until your post, #117...

      actually i myself have mentioned the costs more than once for things like the axles, others have mentioned the top etc.

      Actually i think one of my very first posts said it would cost 5-10K to duplicate it.

    24. Senior Member Hostile's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 11:14 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Actually i think one of my very first posts said it would cost 5-10K to duplicate it.
      Well that was before I asked so it obviously doesn't count.

      EDIT: BTW - The Sunrider Soft Top is standard on the Unlimited Rubicon. The Mojave is the only one with a standard hard top- Freedom Top® 3-Piece Modular Hard Top.
      Last edited by Hostile; 08-09-2011 at 11:20 AM.

    25. Member MCTB's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 11:30 AM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by chris@revotechnik View Post
      Federally yeah well that is another question

      As for the swap, yes its about 300lbs heavier then a 4.0, I needed 2" spacers to level it out. It runs like snot and would never go back to a gasser in a jeep.

      On the trail? it wasn't that tough of a trail but the last time I had it out I was 2wd only since I still have the 4.10s in the front (3.09s in the rear) so no 4wd for me. I was making it up and over things easier then any of the 4wd gassers in the group. Back up a little and just charge front end would just pop up and over anything in my way. Only things I went around was the deep mud.


      4bt in a 1500 or larger is a waste of your time and money, the engine is underpowered for a vehicle that size and a 3/4 ton you could just buy with a real sized cummins.
      Enjoy that. I dont see it staying that way forever. Where I live, anything with an OBDII plug gets tested, whether its in a diesel or gas powered vehicle.

      300 pounds added to the front end? Holy crap. You can keep that. Ill take ass heavy over nose heavy every day of the week. Its just too tall and heavy for my tastes. I would rather lose a little bit of hp and torque but retain some weight balance. An ISB 3.3 would be perfect in a Wrangler with 110 hp and 300 ft/ lbs torque (and ~550 wet). What transmission are you running? NV4500? If so, thats probably why you are making it over things that the gas powered guys are slightly struggling with. The torque band of the diesel helps too (I actively wheel a factory diesel 60 so I know the advantages first hand).

      I would pay $35k for a Jeep if it had a proper, light duty factory diesel offering. You can put a V6 or V8 in it and it will still be completely unattractive to me...and many others. Look at how Defenders are selling. They are RHD, old as crap, gigantic rot boxes, completely uncomfortable and have drivetrains that arent up to the job most of the times and people are sacrificing all of that for the boxy off road look and the diesel. A JK is more comfortable, looks about the same but could never capture that part of the market because there is no diesel. People want a diesel. People who trail ride want a diesel. With gas the way it is now, people that actually wheel over long distances are drooling for diesels. You dont need 50+ gallon long distance tanks with a diesel therefore cutting down on tank size and weight. Jeep will attract more people with this V6 but not as many as they could if they slapped an AdBlue system (probably more instensive than that but theyve got the tech to do it) on there and sold a diesel. A trail machine that offers a solid 20+ mpg built would sell, even at $36k. Hell, my 60 will do that all day long and Cruiser guys drool.
      Last edited by MCTB; 08-09-2011 at 11:46 AM.

    26. 08-09-2011 11:37 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by morecarsthanbrains View Post
      Have you ever been stuck behind someone with a trailer on a trail? Probably not since you seem to like them that much. You just took a maneuverable Jeep and made it completely the opposite. So completely idiotic. Add switchbacks or tight turns to a trail and if youre running tailgunner, might as well pull the brake and relax a while. Trailer? Check. Roof Top Tent? Check. Expo aids spreading? Check.
      Wow, is there anything you don't know? I am really impressed with your e-dick swinging!

      All I said was I thought the trailer was pretty cool especially the skill involved to build it so complete with his own hands.

      Who ever said he takes it on the actual trail during real 4x4 action?

      He typically takes it on the trail solo or with his g/f to get to secluded camping spots, not run the frigging Rubicon trail with it. When he is going to get muddy, the trailer stays behind at the camp site.

    27. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 11:48 AM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by morecarsthanbrains View Post
      Enjoy that. I dont see it staying that way forever. Where I live, anything with an OBDII plug gets tested, whether its in a diesel or gas powered vehicle.
      Most counties here have no emissions inspection right now as it is. They will add the entire state in well before they would add diesels for obdII inspection and this isn't even being discussed.

      300 pounds added to the front end? Holy crap. You can keep that. Ill take ass heavy over nose heavy every day of the week. Its just too tall and heavy for my tastes.
      Should probably experience it before commenting really. When I had the rear shaft out and in "fwd" mode so 4.10s still it will sag/dig so hard the tires just light up. Weight is not much of a concern with this much torque


      What transmission are you running? NV4500? If so, thats probably why you are making it over things that the gas powered guys are slightly struggling with. The torque band of the diesel helps too (I actively wheel a factory diesel 60 so I know the advantages first hand).
      AX15 right now without any issues (many run it in these swaps without a failure so no comments about it not holding up ) although I do want a shorter first gear, with the 3.09s, 31s and this much torque feathering the clutch is next to impossible. It is a breeze to drive with the 4.10s and swapping in a NV3550 which a much shorter first but roughly the same gearing 2nd through 5th will put me about in the middle of 3.09s and 4.10s on the ax15.

    28. Banner Advertiser chris@revotechnik's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 11:50 AM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by G2BForReal View Post

      He typically takes it on the trail solo or with his g/f to get to secluded camping spots, not run the frigging Rubicon trail with it. When he is going to get muddy, the trailer stays behind at the camp site.

      This is what we want to build one for.

      Plus my driveway is so steep even a trailer that tall will have trouble getting up it. My plan was to build it so the box could be removed giving me a nice flat bed area to use for HD runs.

    29. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 11:53 AM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by Adam144 View Post
      All this talk about air conditioning makes me laugh. If it's warm enough for A/C I'm taking the top and doors off. Most useless option ever on a Jeep.
      I disagree, but it's pretty much a moot point because for 2011 AC is standard on all models in Canada minus the base 2 door, I believe.

    30. Member Tokyosmash's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 11:59 AM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by Oliver@triplezoom View Post
      I disagree, but it's pretty much a moot point because for 2011 AC is standard on all models in Canada minus the base 2 door, I believe.
      Seriously. I don't use my AC much, but I like having a defroster.

    31. Member MCTB's Avatar
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      08-09-2011 12:02 PM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by G2BForReal View Post
      Wow, is there anything you don't know? I am really impressed with your e-dick swinging!

      All I said was I thought the trailer was pretty cool especially the skill involved to build it so complete with his own hands.

      Who ever said he takes it on the actual trail during real 4x4 action?

      He typically takes it on the trail solo or with his g/f to get to secluded camping spots, not run the frigging Rubicon trail with it. When he is going to get muddy, the trailer stays behind at the camp site.
      Thanks. I think my e dick is pretty large too. But why are you looking? Not that there is anything wrong with that...

      So, whats the point if it never goes on the trail? What is he packing that cannot fit in the back of a TJ with the rear seat folded down? I camp too. The beauty of camping is that you choose a place to camp off of a trail so you would actually wheel for a day, pull off to the side and set up and relax. In the morning break it down and then continue on. If you KOA or camp at off road parks, a trailer would make sense. Its cool that your friend bought a military surplus trailer, put a lid on it and framed it to handle a tent and threw larger tires on it. Thats awesome. I still stand by my statement that they are a complete pain in the ass on the trail for anyone that is behind one. Its the truth. They are the aids of the off road world right now. It was roof top tents and has grown to the trailer with a roof top tent. Its different types of wheeling I guess. I wheel over distances. You drive as far as you can until it gets dark, then camp and then go again. Trailers are a liability. Then again, thats all my opinion based on personal experience. My fiance wheels and camps with me. All the gear I take to keep her comfortable fits in a box that would fit in the back of a TJ (tent, table, chairs, vestibule, sleeping bags, cots, kitchen stuff). The list of things "required" to go camping is getting ridiculous. When you need a trailer, its time to reevaluate. Again, thats just my opinion and my "e dick" kicking in.

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      08-09-2011 12:11 PM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by morecarsthanbrains View Post
      The list of things "required" to go camping is getting ridiculous. When you need a trailer, its time to reevaluate. A
      I tend to agree - that's why my interest in "expedition rigs" has kind of waned. Unless you're legitimately taking the damn thing all the way to Tierra del Fuego, if it can't fit in the cargo area of a midsize SUV you're bringing too much crap with you. We're entirely comfortable when doing dispersed camping, and our crap barely fills the cargo area of a Forester.
      IPRO Meat-Director and High Minister of Terror-Grilling

      Quote Originally Posted by Marshmallow Man View Post
      The Terror Grill: Part restaurant, part amusement attraction, part gladiator arena, all profit.
      ARE YOU NOT SATIATED?!?!?!

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      08-09-2011 12:22 PM #138
      So an extra 300lbs of useable engine is bad but an extra 300lbs of gear you have to keep on you while wheeling is good?

      Just like i have uses for my torque there are uses for the trailer. Maybe he brings bikes on the rails attached to the trailer sometimes and now has a nice safe place to lock them up without dragging them behind him on a trail.

      Maybe they also use it to hunt and he now has a place to lock and stow their guns as well as a place to haul back anything they shoot.. Gonna throw a deer in the back of your TJ with the seats folded down?

      Shocking not everyone does exactly what you do!

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      08-09-2011 12:24 PM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by morecarsthanbrains View Post
      All of this arguing over what a Rubicon packaged Jeep can do is hilarious. Most will NEVER see more than a gravel road. Others will be built up and have 33's or more slapped on and do nothing more than cruise the mall. Its true.
      Yeah, so what is your point? Many people with Rubicons do use them so they can appreciate their capability.

      How many 911 owners take their car to the track? How many truck owners actually tow stuff?

      No one else offers it right now but they did. If the manufacturers that used to sell a competitor brought one out again, I think that the Jeep would drop in sales. If Ford released a real Bronco (like the 66-76) or Toyota built a real FJ (not that submarine like/ different bodied T4R FJC), Jeep sales would be done. Since no one does, the Jeep sells. Since no one does, Jeep can ask whatever they want for it.
      Yeah no **** that sales would drop if there were a competitor. Fact is, no other manufacturer has the balls to make a solid axle rig with a removable top.

      For the record, so I don't seem like Jeep fanboy, I would probably buy a modern version of an FJ40 over a Wrangler if Toyota ever made one.


      BTW, sometimes "real" lockers are a hindrance and a system like ATRACS is much better. Sorry but its true. You can keep your electronic everything else too.
      Wait are you kidding? You say that an electronic traction control system is "better" than a lockers, but then in your next sentance you say "keep your electronic everything else..."...?

      The only situation that I could think that a locker would be a hinderance would be a tight switch back. And then in that situation you simply unlock the axle.

      Give me manual pins on my sway bar (I play in the mud and rocks and wires get snagged and break). Give me manual hubs so I can completely freewheel my front end to cut down on wear.
      Yes this is all nice and well, as I would rather have these features as well, but no other vehicle from the factory offers these features, so your argument is invalid.

      Give me a gear driven transfer case (chain driven NPs have a habit of exploding when pushed as their cases arent that strong)
      Oh come on, unless you are running 38's and beating the **** out of your rig, a NP will not just randomly explode. That being said, I would rather a gear driven case too as the chains will have a tendancey to stretch out over time.

      I will take it in something between 3.3 and 3.8:1 (4:1 is nice to say but in real life, you really dont need gearing that low unless all you do are large rocks).
      Oh the beauty of a 6 speed transmission. Coming up to a large rock garden? Put it in first and have an awesome crawl ratio. Doing a moderate forest trail that doesn't require going super slow? Use 2nd or 3rd gear. Got a long ride back on the highway? Thow it in 6th.

    35. 08-09-2011 12:29 PM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by morecarsthanbrains View Post
      Thanks. I think my e dick is pretty large too. But why are you looking? Not that there is anything wrong with that...

      So, whats the point if it never goes on the trail? What is he packing that cannot fit in the back of a TJ with the rear seat folded down? I camp too. The beauty of camping is that you choose a place to camp off of a trail so you would actually wheel for a day, pull off to the side and set up and relax. In the morning break it down and then continue on. If you KOA or camp at off road parks, a trailer would make sense. Its cool that your friend bought a military surplus trailer, put a lid on it and framed it to handle a tent and threw larger tires on it. Thats awesome. I still stand by my statement that they are a complete pain in the ass on the trail for anyone that is behind one. Its the truth. They are the aids of the off road world right now. It was roof top tents and has grown to the trailer with a roof top tent. Its different types of wheeling I guess. I wheel over distances. You drive as far as you can until it gets dark, then camp and then go again. Trailers are a liability. Then again, thats all my opinion based on personal experience. My fiance wheels and camps with me. All the gear I take to keep her comfortable fits in a box that would fit in the back of a TJ (tent, table, chairs, vestibule, sleeping bags, cots, kitchen stuff). The list of things "required" to go camping is getting ridiculous. When you need a trailer, its time to reevaluate. Again, thats just my opinion and my "e dick" kicking in.
      He built the trailer FROM SCRATCH. Not from an old trailer. That is what I think is cool about it.

      It was more of a hobby than trying to gain approval from the "real" off roaders. As you said, it is his Jeep, his trailer, and if that is how he wants to roll it is up to him. Would I do it? Probably not.

      I doubt he will be doing any wheeling in Virginia, so I think you are safe from getting stuck behind him on the trail.

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