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    Thread: 2012 Tiguan 09G program is HORRID!!!!!!

    1. Member
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      02-14-2012 10:36 AM #51
      While this has been described as a short-shifting issue in this thread, I don't think that's really the case. This transmission in Drive mode shifts quite normally I thought, under acceleration it gave the engine plenty of revs before upshifting, and adjusted its shifting behavior to how far down you were pressing your right foot quite well.

      The problem, simply, is the tall top gear. If it stopped at 5th I doubt anyone would be complaining.

      This problem is unlikely to go away, since tall gearing is a proven mpg enhancer, and the manufacturers are under pressure to improve mpg. It's likely to get worse, actually, as 7 and 8 speeds are pushed into more cars. And they've got a pretty captive customer base, in the US anyway, as the vast majority are not interested in alternatives like manuals or even tiptronic-like automatics.

    2. Member vw_nc_dude's Avatar
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      02-14-2012 11:39 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by mhackett View Post
      ...This transmission in Drive mode shifts quite normally...
      Well, I think you are in the happy minority then and I see you currently do not own a 2012 Tiguan. On the other hand, many owners of the 2012 Tiguan are pretty unhappy about how the current transmission shifts.

    3. n00b
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      02-14-2012 11:43 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by mhackett View Post
      While this has been described as a short-shifting issue in this thread, I don't think that's really the case. This transmission in Drive mode shifts quite normally I thought, under acceleration it gave the engine plenty of revs before upshifting, and adjusted its shifting behavior to how far down you were pressing your right foot quite well.

      The problem, simply, is the tall top gear. If it stopped at 5th I doubt anyone would be complaining.

      This problem is unlikely to go away, since tall gearing is a proven mpg enhancer, and the manufacturers are under pressure to improve mpg. It's likely to get worse, actually, as 7 and 8 speeds are pushed into more cars. And they've got a pretty captive customer base, in the US anyway, as the vast majority are not interested in alternatives like manuals or even tiptronic-like automatics.
      In city driving at 30-35 mph in D (Drive) with traffic lights, stops signs (stop N go) traffic my Tiguan is shifting into 5-6 th gear at 30-35-40 mph. I would never shift into 5th or 6th gear at 30-35 or 40 mph in a manual (that is what I am calling short-shifting?) At 2800 miles now and did the throttle reset (as posted on youtube and in other forums) this did nothing. Drove 300 mile trip after the reset (did not improve). Not sure it will ever adapt to correct shift patterns?

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      02-14-2012 01:07 PM #54
      I would define short-shifting as, under acceleration, having the transmission upshift so quickly that the engine is not allowed to ever get into its powerband, thus hurting acceleration. My Golf 2.5 automatic did not do this and I don't believe anyone above has complained about this either. Given the huge powerband of the 2.0TSI which I also now have (yay) I don't think this is the issue.

      The issue is, once you've reached the speed you want to be at and are no longer accelerating, the transmission will have put you in top gear and the rpms can be quite low if you are going 30-35 mph. You are getting good mpg, as intended, however, you will also get annoying lugging with any gentle attempts to speed up or climbing a gentle upgrade if they aren't significant enough to force a downshift.

      If what you would like VW to do is, in regular Drive mode, delay the shift into top gear until, say, the rpms won't be below 1500rpm after it's there, and immediately force a downshift whenever they drop back below 1500, you aren't going to get what you want. That would cause a 5-10% mpg hit in city driving, easily.

      As to not driving a manual this way...that's absolutely correct, you wouldn't. And you may have noticed that automatics (even slushbox types) are getting better EPA City mpg than manuals lately. Exploiting a tall top gear as often as possible is why this is. Makes one wonder for how much longer manuals will even be offered.
      Last edited by mhackett; 02-14-2012 at 01:57 PM.

    5. Member vw_nc_dude's Avatar
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      02-21-2012 07:51 PM #55
      One customer got an encouraging reply from VW that a program update is coming. Finger crossed. See thread below:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...n+transmission

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      02-23-2012 03:04 PM #56
      Here is a video from consumer reports. They do not mention transmission explicitly, but somewhere around 45sec they say "the engine groans and moans" which exactly is what we are experiencing:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDWptp6aObE

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      02-24-2012 12:42 AM #57
      So am I correct that the '12 Tiguan uses an 09G? If that's the case then no thanks for the Tiguan for me for now. We have an 09G in our NBC and it's a friggen nightmare...

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      02-24-2012 10:07 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Banshee365 View Post
      So am I correct that the '12 Tiguan uses an 09G? If that's the case then no thanks for the Tiguan for me for now. We have an 09G in our NBC and it's a friggen nightmare...
      It's a 09G automatic transmission but there is hope that VW comes up with a software update for the 2012 Tiguan. I have a 2008 Passat with 09G and it shifts great. So it is really a matter of programming.
      Last edited by vw_nc_dude; 02-24-2012 at 10:37 AM.

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      02-24-2012 10:37 AM #59
      The programming wasn't an issue with out 09G Beetle. At around 50k it started slamming into gears between shifts and also downshifting super hard to where stuff was flying out of the seat. It ended up being the valve body, very common for this transmission on the Beetle's.

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      02-24-2012 10:39 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Banshee365 View Post
      The programming wasn't an issue with out 09G Beetle. At around 50k it started slamming into gears between shifts and also downshifting super hard to where stuff was flying out of the seat. It ended up being the valve body, very common for this transmission on the Beetle's.
      An extended warranty was issued by VW for that problem. Did you have it repaired at your VW service?

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      02-24-2012 10:55 AM #61
      I have a 2008 Passat with 09G and it shifts great. So it is really a matter of programming.
      What are the rpms in top gear at 30mph with your Passat?

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      02-24-2012 12:01 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by mhackett View Post
      What are the rpms in top gear at 30mph with your Passat?
      I can't push it to the 6th gear in tiptronic mode at 30mph.

      In D mode, the typical RPMs are around 2000 and it is a smooth ride. No low-RPM / high gear issue as experienced with the 09G in the 2012 Tiguan.

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      02-24-2012 01:49 PM #63
      Interesting. Assuming the specs I found are correct the overall 6th gear ratio is quite similar between these two vehicles, 2.38 for the Tig and 2.345 for your Passat. The Tig has larger-diameter tires though so overall it would be turning a few % less rpm at the same speed. Still in the ballpark.

      So when coasting to a stop in D does the Passat force downshifts such that the engine is pushed above idle speed after each downshift (kind of like Sport mode but not so much)?

      During the time I had my Golf auto I spent a lot of time thinking about how I really wished it worked, that's why I'm curious about this.

    14. Member vw_nc_dude's Avatar
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      02-24-2012 06:14 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by mhackett View Post
      Interesting. Assuming the specs I found are correct the overall 6th gear ratio is quite similar between these two vehicles, 2.38 for the Tig and 2.345 for your Passat. The Tig has larger-diameter tires though so overall it would be turning a few % less rpm at the same speed. Still in the ballpark.

      So when coasting to a stop in D does the Passat force downshifts such that the engine is pushed above idle speed after each downshift (kind of like Sport mode but not so much)?

      During the time I had my Golf auto I spent a lot of time thinking about how I really wished it worked, that's why I'm curious about this.
      It behaves exactly as you describe: Shifting down like the Sport mode but not so much.

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      02-25-2012 09:25 AM #65
      Ok, thanks. Any other automatics I've driven behaved like the one in my 2011 Golf, upshifting as soon as possible and with coasting downshifts barely pushing the rpms above idle speed. It works ok if you have a lot of cylinders and/or a not-very-tall top gear.

      Obviously VW understood at one time that a small engine with tall gearing required a different approach than this for good driveability. Their priorities have changed recently, of course.

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      02-25-2012 04:11 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by mhackett View Post
      Ok, thanks. Any other automatics I've driven behaved like the one in my 2011 Golf, upshifting as soon as possible and with coasting downshifts barely pushing the rpms above idle speed. It works ok if you have a lot of cylinders and/or a not-very-tall top gear.

      Obviously VW understood at one time that a small engine with tall gearing required a different approach than this for good driveability. Their priorities have changed recently, of course.
      Yep, it's a pity that they butchered the well-shifting automatic to increase MPG. Though it looks like with the 2012 Tiguan they made the programming so horrible that it needs reprogramming.

    17. Member vw_nc_dude's Avatar
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      03-30-2012 04:42 PM #67
      OK guys, here is the latest from VW. This is the message I received today:

      Dear Mr. T:

      Thank you for your e-mail inquiring about updates for the transmission for the 2012 Tiguan.

      At this time we are aware that Volkswagen recognized the dissatisfaction some of our customers have with the performance of the transmission for the 2012 Tiguan. And we are working on an adjustment that addresses this concern and allows the Tiguan to still comply with Federal emission standards.

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      03-30-2012 10:55 PM #68
      Hmm ... emission standards? Sounds like corporate-double-speak for epa mileage, so they can keep their CAFE (corp average fuel economy) numbers up.

      Makes me wonder what shift patterns they use for manual transmissions in the mileage and emissions cycles?

    19. Member vw_nc_dude's Avatar
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      04-01-2012 09:16 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Charlie_M View Post
      Hmm ... emission standards? Sounds like corporate-double-speak for epa mileage, so they can keep their CAFE (corp average fuel economy) numbers up.

      Makes me wonder what shift patterns they use for manual transmissions in the mileage and emissions cycles?
      Good point! I do not think that they manually shift to 6th gear at 35MPH and that's most likely contributing to a lower MPG with manual. OK, I like the idea of higher MPG, but that cannot be justified by shifting to a high gear too soon.

    20. 04-04-2012 07:54 PM #70
      I have had enough of VW's inaction on this issue. I am starting a lemon law case. I want a full refund on my 2012 Tiguan. The dealer misrepresented the problem when they told me that the poor shifting would go away once the transmission and turbo "adapt" to my driving style.

    21. Member vw_nc_dude's Avatar
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      04-04-2012 09:22 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by hhbah View Post
      I have had enough of VW's inaction on this issue. I am starting a lemon law case. I want a full refund on my 2012 Tiguan. The dealer misrepresented the problem when they told me that the poor shifting would go away once the transmission and turbo "adapt" to my driving style.
      Don't know how far you can go with a lemon law case. I would wait still a little bit. There is some hope that there will be an update coming to US customers. The below message is from VW of Canada:

      Good afternoon,

      The software will be available at our dealerships within the next 2-3 weeks.

      Regards,

      Julie Zayac
      Customer Service Manager
      Directrice du Service à la Clientèle

      Volkswagen Group Canada
      777 Bayly St. W
      Ajax, ON L1S 7G7
      Phone: 905 428 4857
      Fax: 905 428 5867
      Julie.zayac@vw.ca

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      04-05-2012 01:43 PM #72
      Based on the info we have from VW of Canada, I asked VW of America if there is a time estimate for the transmission update for U.S. customers. Here is the info I got:

      Dear Mr. T:

      Thank you for your e-mail reply.

      I understand Volkswagen of Canada has provided you with details regarding a possible upcoming transmission update for the Tiguan. I regret information such as the details Volkswagen of Canada provided to you is not made available to the Volkswagen of America’s Customer CARE Center.

      As stated in my previous e-mail, we are aware that Volkswagen is working on an adjustment for the transmission. When additional details are available they will be provided to our dealers. I encourage you to remain in contact with your local Volkswagen dealer.

    23. 05-13-2012 07:53 PM #73
      I had the TSB applied to my 2012 Tiguan SE and there is a noticeable difference in the shift points. I am pleased with the results and recommend that anyone with the same problem should get the update.

    24. 10-28-2012 08:20 PM #74
      The economy is virtually the same and you never have the problem

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