Considering a 2012 GTI - Break-in and oil consumption questions

[VeeDubDriver]

Let me preface this by saying that I had an '07 A4 2.0T that was my wife's car and it would consume a quart of oil every 1000 miles.

So I am a bit concerned about going down that road again. So, what is the latest on oil consumption with these engines and what is the consensus on proper break-in?

Thanks!

[Aguilar]

I had the same concern going from 2 previous FSI engines to the TSI. Both my FSI GTIs (06 and 08) would consume plenty of oil when driven spiritedly, which was quite often.

Good news for me is that the TSI does not consume a drop of oil. Even after a k04 with full bolt-ons and running 0W-40 weight, the oil level remains the same for the 3k intervals I do.

But of course every car is broken in differently, and I remember there were some who said their FSI did not burn any oil neither. There might be people who have a TSI who burns oil, but I have been monitoring this forum and it doesn't seem to be an issue like it was with the FSI where every so often there was a thread about oil consumption.

As far as breaking it in, I just drove it like I drive it now; ensure is fully warmed up and let it visit high rpms every once in a while.

[A2JettaGLI18]

I have a 2008 FSI Jetta and it burns through about 0.25-0.5L of oil ever 3-4,000 miles. It currently has over 60,000 miles. I purchased this car from the dealership at 28,000 miles.

I drive it nice and I play hard from time to time and it changes nothing. I think it just depends on how the engine was broken in and how the engine is warmed up from a cold start. I always cold start my car and let the idle fall to 950 before driving (up to one minute). I never dip into the boost until the car is completely warmed up. I actually go one step further and wait about 3-5 more minutes after the engine is warmed up before I start rowing through the gears (to let the transaxle warm up to operating temp).

Regarding brand new break in period:

-I have read that VW uses a stabilizer in the oil from the factory that helps the rings seat well or something to that regard.

-The first oil change is supposed to be 10,000 miles...people that do it earlier have reported problems with oil consumption later so I don't know.

-I would probably drive it like the manual says the first 1000-1500 miles (Easy, varying engine speeds, no cruise control, blah) and then start driving it normal and change the oil between 5-7500 miles. Make sure to check the oil level every 1000 miles though at least. (I always do that every other gas stop when I fill up)

Good luck...check out this link below relating to this question...might have some further clarification.

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showth...?t=7949&page=2

[VeeDubDriver]

Helpful link, thanks!

[90crvtec]

I purchased my GTI new. It had 14 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. That same day I drove the car for 20 minutes to get things good and warmed up. After that 20 minutes I used full throttle in the lower gears up to about 4-5k RPMs and did lots of engine braking for about 30 minutes continuous. After that I drove it like I normally would, if I needed to hit redline to pass someone I did. All this was done by the first 100 miles.

My car doesn't use any oil and seems to run fine. You'll probably hear just as many stories from people that drove their new car gently and never had it burn oil either. The truth is, nobody really knows the best way to break in an engine, and they all seem to work pretty well. With a new car and new engine tolerances, I'm not sure break in is as big of a deal anymore. Me personally, I believe a car should be broken in the same way it will be used in the real world, I bought my GTI to enjoy it so I used it that way right off the dealership lot!

Also, there are plenty of UOAs out there on the factory fill that comes out of the VW GTIs, it doesn't look like 'special break-in oil'. It looks like any other ACEA A3 0w30 or 5w40 oil. I think the myth that VW uses a special oil at the factory is just that, a myth.

It's also worth noting that the newer TSI and TFSI engines don't have oil consumption issues like the original 2.0T FSI engines did. There are lots of people with MK6 GTIs that report zero oil consumption. As far as oil consumption is concerned, I don't think you need to worry much about the TSI.

[A2JettaGLI18]

I purchased my GTI new. It had 14 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. That same day I drove the car for 20 minutes to get things good and warmed up. After that 20 minutes I used full throttle in the lower gears up to about 4-5k RPMs and did lots of engine braking for about 30 minutes continuous. After that I drove it like I normally would, if I needed to hit redline to pass someone I did. All this was done by the first 100 miles.

My car doesn't use any oil and seems to run fine. You'll probably hear just as many stories from people that drove their new car gently and never had it burn oil either. The truth is, nobody really knows the best way to break in an engine, and they all seem to work pretty well. With a new car and new engine tolerances, I'm not sure break in is as big of a deal anymore. Me personally, I believe a car should be broken in the same way it will be used in the real world, I bought my GTI to enjoy it so I used it that way right off the dealership lot!

Also, there are plenty of UOAs out there on the factory fill that comes out of the VW GTIs, it doesn't look like 'special break-in oil'. It looks like any other ACEA A3 0w30 or 5w40 oil. I think the myth that VW uses a special oil at the factory is just that, a myth.

It's also worth noting that the newer TSI and TFSI engines don't have oil consumption issues like the original 2.0T FSI engines did. There are lots of people with MK6 GTIs that report zero oil consumption. As far as oil consumption is concerned, I don't think you need to worry much about the TSI.

Question for you:

Do you let your car warm up completely before mashing on it? How long do you typically keep cars for (years and mileage)?

My questions are simply based on the fact I hear so many people turn the key on and go but in reality, cars just wont last as long as if they were allowed to warm up completely. This is why I have recently considered buying a new GTI. I don't want a car that wasn't treated well each day by the previous driver. Not to say I don't mash on a car, cause my Jetta sees 5-6500 RPM shifts daily but I let her warm up first.

[90crvtec]

Question for you:

Do you let your car warm up completely before mashing on it? How long do you typically keep cars for (years and mileage)?

My questions are simply based on the fact I hear so many people turn the key on and go but in reality, cars just wont last as long as if they were allowed to warm up completely. This is why I have recently considered buying a new GTI. I don't want a car that wasn't treated well each day by the previous driver. Not to say I don't mash on a car, cause my Jetta sees 5-6500 RPM shifts daily but I let her warm up first.

Of course, I always let the car reach operating temperature, and even then I usually wait 5-10 minutes before going over 4k RPMs. I do not let the car idle until it is warm, this is pointless, wastes gas, and causes massive fuel dilution which is hard on the engine and the engine oil. But, I do drive the car very gently until it is up to temp, after that it's all fair game.

[A2JettaGLI18]

Well that seems all right then. To each their own. I am a bit set in my ways based on what my family has told me and what I experienced/witnessed I guess. My old Jetta had 288K on it before the engine blew due to a wire that popped out of the fuse box and leaned the engine out. (My fault) Tranny is still good but 3 gears were grinding.

This was my first car. I bought her used with 156K on it and mashed the hell out of that car and I still have it. But i always treated her good with a fresh oil change before 5000K and warm up routine.

[EngTech1]

Oil Consumption : 4-5 OZ in 10,000 miles - You have the FSI Designed Motor

Two bad Items on those Fuel Pump and High Compression - DI washing down the Cly Walls

Leads to High Consumption - If You have one of those ( 3 Times and Lemon It ! )

[Slayer]

The TSI's don't guzzle oil like the FSI's do. If you drive it hard during the "break in" period, it will make the rings seat better. Babying it won't put enough outward pressure on them to fully seat and seal up well

[ManTech]

I purchased my GTI new. It had 14 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. That same day I drove the car for 20 minutes to get things good and warmed up. After that 20 minutes I used full throttle in the lower gears up to about 4-5k RPMs and did lots of engine braking for about 30 minutes continuous. After that I drove it like I normally would, if I needed to hit redline to pass someone I did. All this was done by the first 100 miles.

My car doesn't use any oil and seems to run fine. You'll probably hear just as many stories from people that drove their new car gently and never had it burn oil either. The truth is, nobody really knows the best way to break in an engine, and they all seem to work pretty well. With a new car and new engine tolerances, I'm not sure break in is as big of a deal anymore. Me personally, I believe a car should be broken in the same way it will be used in the real world, I bought my GTI to enjoy it so I used it that way right off the dealership lot!

Also, there are plenty of UOAs out there on the factory fill that comes out of the VW GTIs, it doesn't look like 'special break-in oil'. It looks like any other ACEA A3 0w30 or 5w40 oil. I think the myth that VW uses a special oil at the factory is just that, a myth.

It's also worth noting that the newer TSI and TFSI engines don't have oil consumption issues like the original 2.0T FSI engines did. There are lots of people with MK6 GTIs that report zero oil consumption. As far as oil consumption is concerned, I don't think you need to worry much about the TSI.

^ This! I have done the same with every car I have ever had. Never had an issue. Proper engine braking techniques being the most important. Most people baby their engines during the initial engine break-in period... wrong.

[lookin4trouble]

Never had any oil consumption issues with the TSI until 65K miles. My last two changes (65K and 70K) were close to a quart low. Before those two there was no visible loss on the dipstick. Recently, I have noticed considerable oil buildup around the intake coupling where the intake meets the turbo. Something I should look into, probably.

[Short Bus]

Just had my 30k service on my GTI.... it doesn't consume a drop of oil.

[JRMGTI]

My 09 TSI uses "O" oil between 5k changes.

[Super Hans]

I looked over a number of TSI UOAs from the factory-fill and concluded this engine sheds a lot of metal during break-in. So, I drained my FF oil at 1000miles, it had a ton of visible metal in the pan.

I "flushed it" with some Delo 30 with a 10 minute drive to buy a filter end cap wrench (!)

Anyway, zero oil consumption on any oil, except a tad on the German Syntec just drained by the dealer.

So...

FF oil (VW 507 SLX/ESP)

Delo 30 flush then Royal Purple 15w-40 (I had laying around)

Quaker State Synth 10w-30 with lots of moly, VERY smooth and slick coming off the RP.

I think I let the dealer change the oil w/drum Syntec 5w-40, "flushing it" again, because I got home and dumped it for....

US domestic Edge 5w-30 (A5) Got a CAT UOA and wear was lower than any TSI UOA I ever saw at 4000 miles.

Unfortunately, the dealer drained my 5k German Syntec before I could get a UOA.

So, thin A5 oil works and works well in 2.0 TSI. I knew it would. 5w-30 Edge and Pennzoil Platinum were the best UOAs I ever saw in 1.8t and best FSI one was on Brad Penn 10w-30....ALL light A5 oils.

See, A5 is just as "good" as A3 oils like VW 502. Difference is we get it cheap with a lot of brand choices in the USA. Unless you overheat your oil excessively, the thin oil is ideal. Even better, 5w-30 is about half as thick as 5w-40 in cold. Put a quart of each in the freezer and compare.

[Super Hans]

The NA engines spec 5w-40 with the higher VW 502 additives compared to the NEW 5w-30 VW 504 oils used in Europe, like OE Castrol SLX or Mobil 1 5w-30 ESP..."Emissions System Protection". Their low additive formulas work fine with the quality low-sulphur fuels they have. Use NA gas and without the Euro Stratified Charge fueling programme, it kills the already low TBN.

The added fuel dillution for our stupid rich CAFE Low NOx tuning also dumps fuel into the oil, 4% in my case. Another reason the thicker 5w-40 is speced here, to compensate for the long 10k intervals.

Does anyone here actually do them? I just do 2 changes a year, thick oil for summer and thin oil for winters, when I actually do short-trip driving and my oil doesn't heat up fully. The thin oil actually is better, despite what your grandpa's mechanic tells you.


Here's some charts and UOAs. I don't waste time on the lube forum if I can help it.

-Clark Starr

[Super Hans]

btw- a shot of 2cycle oil in the gas helps a lot with consumption, 500:1 = 3oz/10g. Use it. Use double the first tank to coat the fuel system. Awesome stuff. Ashless. I use it by the gallon. Can't say enough good about it....but I also drop in 1oz of Techron on top too...

Lubrizol's Euro Spec Comparator is the first place to pick up useful data points

http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/...p/pc/index.htm



By null at 2011-07-16




http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html






By null at 2011-05-31


Look at this Edge 7500 miles UOA, this is what convinced me to go for it.



FSI on thin A3 oil...






My pet oil def is Mobil 1 High Miles. No doubt, a KILLER add package made for Euro apps. Even the 10w-30 has the thick A3 spec rather than the thin oil A5 spec. That can only be done with the best base oils, like German Syntec 0w-30 and MaxLife 5w-30 Synth. The 5w-30 is a robust A5 oil. They are all SL spec, allowing higher additive levels than newer specs can use.



Skip Euro oils except a few, and if you REALLY need bragging rights.

[Super Hans]

I purchased my GTI new. It had 14 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. That same day I drove the car for 20 minutes to get things good and warmed up. After that 20 minutes I used full throttle in the lower gears up to about 4-5k RPMs and did lots of engine braking for about 30 minutes continuous. After that I drove it like I normally would, if I needed to hit redline to pass someone I did. All this was done by the first 100 miles.

My car doesn't use any oil and seems to run fine. You'll probably hear just as many stories from people that drove their new car gently and never had it burn oil either. The truth is, nobody really knows the best way to break in an engine, and they all seem to work pretty well. With a new car and new engine tolerances, I'm not sure break in is as big of a deal anymore. Me personally, I believe a car should be broken in the same way it will be used in the real world, I bought my GTI to enjoy it so I used it that way right off the dealership lot!

Also, there are plenty of UOAs out there on the factory fill that comes out of the VW GTIs, it doesn't look like 'special break-in oil'. It looks like any other ACEA A3 0w30 or 5w40 oil. I think the myth that VW uses a special oil at the factory is just that, a myth.

It's also worth noting that the newer TSI and TFSI engines don't have oil consumption issues like the original 2.0T FSI engines did. There are lots of people with MK6 GTIs that report zero oil consumption. As far as oil consumption is concerned, I don't think you need to worry much about the TSI.

This.

[NEW2B]

I'll make it simple, my 06 fsi burns a lot of oil, my 09 tfsi does not burn any oil.
I let both cars warm up by taking it easy the first few miles,then I drive them both the same,
very hard.
06 stage2+ never been to the dealer only changed coil packs.

09gti stage2 never been to the dealer either, but soon will need a clutch

[12frostgli]

^ This! I have done the same with every car I have ever had. Never had an issue. Proper engine braking techniques being the most important. Most people baby their engines during the initial engine break-in period... wrong.

I guess first off i'll start off by saying this is my first brand new car (2012 GLI)
So, just want to get this right so my car doesnt turn out to be a lemon (cause so far.. i'm LOVING it). I bought it 2 days ago, have put maybe 150-200 miles on it. Of those, I have hard accelerated maybe 3-4 times, just testing the waters (only up to like 80 mph, on probably all 3-4 times). I've been down shifting every stop, and leaving in 1st gear to take it easy on the tranny (leave in 2nd until ready to go then shift down to first). other than that, been driving mostly easy, shifting at around 3-4k, and just giving it some at 40 mile intervals. In your opinion, is this right?

[Slayer]

This isn't a baby kitten here, get on it and drive it hard. Babying it during the break in period isn't going to magically make it all wear evenly. Run it through the rev range and let it engine brake

[12frostgli]

This isn't a baby kitten here, get on it and drive it hard. Babying it during the break in period isn't going to magically make it all wear evenly. Run it through the rev range and let it engine brake

haha, ok thanks. have been overly cautious I guess, it being my largest automobile purchase to date. never experienced break-in before or known much about it. I'll let the kitten purr louder from now on, lol
thanks again

[shortybdub]

Done basically the same "break-in"/ oil change routine on every new car I've owned and never had consumption issues. Run it the way I'd drive it for it's service life, ie; "spirited". Obviously letting it get to operating temp (by DRIVING it, no idle) before seriously getting on it. First few hundred miles, make sure you produce internal PRESSURE by doing several hard accelerations from mid-rpms. This produces the proper cylinder pressure under load needed to push the rings against the cylinder walls and seat them further. Engine braking produces VACUUM and actually pulls the rings away because the engine is not under dynamic load. Vacuum is a good thing for valve seat though, and should be incorporated during break-in, but it does almost nothing for ring set.

Change oil after about 1000 miles, you'll be amazed at the junk thats in the oil (and it's not all wear metals either). You DO NOT want this crap hanging around for 10K. Special break-in oil is a myth. Only oil I have seen confirmed to be "special" for factory fill is an obscure Honda oil from around 2008. Had lots of zinc and moly but did absolutely NOTHING to combat the insidious fuel dilution that is common to every new engine. I change again after about 3K before I settle on a standard OCI. I generally start my baseline oil analysis after about 10K, even though some were still "breaking-in" (BMW).

Bottom line is you're not gonna kill it with a "heavy foot" break-in routine, as long as you use some common sense, and it will be more beneficial in the long run. And even though we attempt to do things for the long-term life of the car, reality is we generally sell/trade/wreck them long before anything we do early in service life has any serious detrimental effect. Happy motoring.

[12frostgli]

Bottom line is you're not gonna kill it with a "heavy foot" break-in routine, as long as you use some common sense, and it will be more beneficial in the long run. And even though we attempt to do things for the long-term life of the car, reality is we generally sell/trade/wreck them long before anything we do early in service life has any serious detrimental effect. Happy motoring.

Very true. Thanks again all for advice on that. Hope y'all are enjoying the tsi's as much as I am

[dreamxrik]

Why does the manual say the opposite of what's in this thread?

[Slayer]

because they arent going to tell you to be driving like mario andretti and redlining your car because of legal issues

"But officer, the manual said I had to do six 4th gear pulls til redline!"

[dreamxrik]

I purchased my GTI new. It had 14 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. That same day I drove the car for 20 minutes to get things good and warmed up. After that 20 minutes I used full throttle in the lower gears up to about 4-5k RPMs and did lots of engine braking for about 30 minutes continuous. After that I drove it like I normally would, if I needed to hit redline to pass someone I did. All this was done by the first 100 miles.

My car doesn't use any oil and seems to run fine. You'll probably hear just as many stories from people that drove their new car gently and never had it burn oil either. The truth is, nobody really knows the best way to break in an engine, and they all seem to work pretty well. With a new car and new engine tolerances, I'm not sure break in is as big of a deal anymore. Me personally, I believe a car should be broken in the same way it will be used in the real world, I bought my GTI to enjoy it so I used it that way right off the dealership lot!

Also, there are plenty of UOAs out there on the factory fill that comes out of the VW GTIs, it doesn't look like 'special break-in oil'. It looks like any other ACEA A3 0w30 or 5w40 oil. I think the myth that VW uses a special oil at the factory is just that, a myth.

It's also worth noting that the newer TSI and TFSI engines don't have oil consumption issues like the original 2.0T FSI engines did. There are lots of people with MK6 GTIs that report zero oil consumption. As far as oil consumption is concerned, I don't think you need to worry much about the TSI.

Why do this if the manual says not to? Seems like a Unnecessary risk for a big purchase.

[not_a_chick_car]

Question for you:

cars just wont last as long as if they were allowed to warm up completely.

Not true, read the manual that comes with the car, they state otherwise. Modern cars are designed to go as soon as oil pressure is up. that said I do drive easy until the car is up to temperature.

My 09 GTI (TSI) engine has 102,000 miles on it now and still uses less than a 1/2 quart of oil in 5K miles. 5K is what I use for oil change intervals.

[BrutalDictator]

Well that seems all right then. To each their own. I am a bit set in my ways based on what my family has told me and what I experienced/witnessed I guess. My old Jetta had 288K on it before the engine blew due to a wire that popped out of the fuse box and leaned the engine out. (My fault) Tranny is still good but 3 gears were grinding.

This was my first car. I bought her used with 156K on it and mashed the hell out of that car and I still have it. But i always treated her good with a fresh oil change before 5000K and warm up routine.

Old cars are a bit different.

[BrutalDictator]

I purchased my GTI new. It had 14 miles on it when I drove it off the lot. That same day I drove the car for 20 minutes to get things good and warmed up. After that 20 minutes I used full throttle in the lower gears up to about 4-5k RPMs and did lots of engine braking for about 30 minutes continuous. After that I drove it like I normally would, if I needed to hit redline to pass someone I did. All this was done by the first 100 miles.

My car doesn't use any oil and seems to run fine. You'll probably hear just as many stories from people that drove their new car gently and never had it burn oil either. The truth is, nobody really knows the best way to break in an engine, and they all seem to work pretty well. With a new car and new engine tolerances, I'm not sure break in is as big of a deal anymore. Me personally, I believe a car should be broken in the same way it will be used in the real world, I bought my GTI to enjoy it so I used it that way right off the dealership lot!

Also, there are plenty of UOAs out there on the factory fill that comes out of the VW GTIs, it doesn't look like 'special break-in oil'. It looks like any other ACEA A3 0w30 or 5w40 oil. I think the myth that VW uses a special oil at the factory is just that, a myth.

It's also worth noting that the newer TSI and TFSI engines don't have oil consumption issues like the original 2.0T FSI engines did. There are lots of people with MK6 GTIs that report zero oil consumption. As far as oil consumption is concerned, I don't think you need to worry much about the TSI.

Sounds right to me.

[ina04gli1.8t]

My 2012 GTI was broken in properly even though it has been said that break in is done by manufacturing. I have used 3 quarts of oil just topping it off, in 12, 000 miles. This is completely unacceptable and I will be taking it to the dealer as soon as possible.

[Mobtown]

[Mobtown]

ive been eyeing up a 2012 gti also.. i have a 2012 tdi in silver and have to say i had a silver car before and it seems like it got hit soooo many times in it. got side swiped in tdi recently

so i had an 09 tsi gti oil didnt seem like an issue but the tranny was 6mt. also blew a coilpack
in cylinder #1. had an APR stage 1. seemed like alot of issues. the tdi has been solid other
than getting hit by alot of Baltimorons.

any input for 2012 gti and i believe its the EA888 engine in the 2012 gti.
prob take a hit on trade.. will see.

[Slayer]

2012 has the same motor as the 2009

[AquilaTDI]

Just another data point - My 2012 GTI is using one quart of oil every 2500-3000 miles. I broke it in like so many others suggest in this thread - warm up, stand on it to 3K to 5K RPM let it breathe etc.

When I had the 10,000 mi service done (one year in my case with 6500 miles on the odo) the service manager said that this was "within spec". They WEIGHED (!) the oil before filling the engine, wanted me to come back in 1,000 miles to have it drained and weighed. Needless to say if the acceptable rate of consumption is 1 Qt. per 1,000 miles I wasn't going to waste my time...

The car runs really well, and I've been wondering if my regular use of the paddle shifters (DSG) downshifting is partially to blame since that would "suck" more oil up the cylinder walls into the combustion chambers on the "overrun". The exhaust tips get black pretty quickly after I clean them, but it's a dry/hard residue, not something oily. Any thoughts?

(My "other" car is a 2009 JSW TDI which uses no oil (but maybe gets oil dilution from the fuel to make up for any usage.)