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    Thread: After being one of their biggest cheerleaders/apologists for years...

    1. Member adrew's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 12:51 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      And after all that you ended up with a Yaris?

      I sure as hell won't bother with that spreadsheet then, no offense.
      Haha, none taken. My other half is going back to grad school so we wanted something that would be super reliable and cheap to run for the next two years. With the spreadsheet, I was trying to figure out if paying more for something more fuel efficient would work out in the long run, like spending a little extra on a Cruze Eco or Golf TDI compared to the significantly cheaper Yaris. (It wasn't.)

      The Yaris will be paid off in two years, has free maintenance for 25k miles and has cut my fuel bill in half. It looks mediocre on paper but is surprisingly fun to drive since it is so light. The plan is to get something fun in a couple of years when we're dual income again, but right now, with just one car, we need reliability.
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio

    2. 09-07-2011 12:51 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      If you can point me to an independent shop that will do the timing belt on my A4 for less than $800, I'll paypal you half the difference. Why so much? Because Audi mounted the 1.8T sideways in my car, making the timing belt impossible to access.
      I've never heard of longitudinal being referred to as "sideways."
      Bowtie wearing, tattooed, Mustang driver

      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I was more annoyed with the implication of being a Browns fan.

    3. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 12:57 AM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by cougar View Post
      I've never heard of longitudinal being referred to as "sideways."
      It is when the engine was designed to be mounted transversely in FWD VWs.

    4. 09-07-2011 12:57 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by ModernMaven View Post
      I feel like I am about to break up with Audi/ VW.

      Yeah, CSB, right? I love(d) the brand and still even think I will buy another sometimes, but after this week, it's becoming very difficult to defend. Or maybe the lesson here is not to have one off warranty? This is my third VW/Audi, but my first off warranty.

      This week, I had my third window regulator fail and my third coolant housing leak. Only 73k miles on the ODO, and I thought it would be hitting its stride by now. It's only stupid crap failing, parts that are poorly designed, perhaps. A portion of the coolant housing had a secton of it melt where it failed, and when we removed it, the connections cracked because of the material, a hard plastic. The new part has metal on the inside, so I am thinking/hoping this is the last time I will have to deal with this. Even the soft touch coating inside the car is now bubbling in places.

      Bad day at Ingolstadt or indicative of the brand? I don't know anymore. I've been down this road before and have been able to wave away some of the issues, but I don't know if I can anymore. Can you tell me that other brands have the same repeated failure rates of some of their parts as well? I don't hear of similar issues on cheaper brands, or am I just not paying attention?

      Is Audi/VW getting better or worse, in your opinion?
      I've been there. I walked away. I went to Acura and Toyota (TL and a 4Runner) and never looked back.


    5. Member gtiguy12's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:00 AM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      And how does it compare to other cars with timing chains? Shorter, eh?

      If you can point me to an independent shop that will do the timing belt on my A4 for less than $800, I'll paypal you half the difference. Why so much? Because Audi mounted the 1.8T sideways in my car, making the timing belt impossible to access. Same reason I had to have the engine dropped to replace a faulty coolant flange. Why shouldn't the added expense of that design decision factor into the total cost of ownership of the car?

      There's also oil changes on my Porsche, which cost exactly twice as much as for other cars because it uses twice the oil. Why shouldn't that count towards TCO? I spend $200 a year on oil on the Porsche, whereas other similar cars would be less than half that (like, say, an S2000).

      Tires are another example. Why shouldn't that count towards TCO? It costs me a lot more for tires on my Boxster than it would on an S2000.

      Many cars cost more to maintain, and need maintenance more often. It's incorrect not to factor that into TCO. The only people who do this are those who want to make German cars look more reliable and cheaper to run than they are.
      A4 1.8t timing belts are easier to replace than the transverse ones. Sure you have to remove the front bumper cover and put the front end in service position, but there is alot more room to work with and no engine mount bracket to fight.

      You got taken for a ride on that coolant flange on the rear of the head. no tech in his right mind would remove the engine to replace it. Yes it will take a couple of hours, and I always end up a bit scratched up, but no where in the service manual does it say to remove the engine. flange + coolant and labor should have been around $250. You should find somebody who knows what they are doing to complete your repairs.
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Vixen01 View Post
      In part, Jason has to run because it is faster than driving his car...

    6. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:09 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by gtiguy12 View Post
      A4 1.8t timing belts are easier to replace than the transverse ones. Sure you have to remove the front bumper cover and put the front end in service position, but there is alot more room to work with and no engine mount bracket to fight.
      And why should this extra effort not count towards the TCO of the car where other car's don't need as much time to fix?

      Quote Originally Posted by gtiguy12 View Post
      You got taken for a ride on that coolant flange on the rear of the head. no tech in his right mind would remove the engine to replace it. Yes it will take a couple of hours, and I always end up a bit scratched up, but no where in the service manual does it say to remove the engine. flange + coolant and labor should have been around $250. You should find somebody who knows what they are doing to complete your repairs.
      Dropping the engine was an exaggeration. The flange drained my coolant while I was 600 km from home. The first guy I took it to couldn't do it at all, as he'd never serviced an Audi and he was quite vocal about the idiotic position of the flange. The second guy is a VW/Audi guy who is very well respected where I live, and it cost $800. I don't even want to know what the dealer would have charged. Note that I'm in Canada; we pay more for everything.

      And again, that definitely counts towards the TCO of the car, is definitely not neglect, and is definitely unreliable.

    7. Member eweu's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:13 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      It is when the engine was designed to be mounted transversely in FWD VWs.
      You're talking about the 1.8T engine that was designed by Audi for use in the 1994 8D Audi A4 as a longitudinal application, right?

    8. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:23 AM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by eweu View Post
      You're talking about the 1.8T engine that was designed by Audi for use in the 1994 8D Audi A4 as a longitudinal application, right?
      I'm talking about the engine in my car, which is in many respects more difficult to service than many comparable cars. The difficulty of that servicing adds to the expense of servicing it, which adds to the TCO (unless you arbitrarily exclude certain costs as Shomegrown advocates).

    9. Member gtiguy12's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:24 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      And why should this extra effort not count towards the TCO of the car where other car's don't need as much time to fix?



      Dropping the engine was an exaggeration. The flange drained my coolant while I was 600 km from home. The first guy I took it to couldn't do it at all, as he'd never serviced an Audi and he was quite vocal about the idiotic position of the flange. The second guy is a VW/Audi guy who is very well respected where I live, and it cost $800. I don't even want to know what the dealer would have charged. Note that I'm in Canada; we pay more for everything.

      And again, that definitely counts towards the TCO of the car, is definitely not neglect, and is definitely unreliable.
      You paid for an Audi, Now you are going to pay Audi repair prices to have it fixed. Sad to say, the Passat equivalent with the exact same engine, same parts right down to the number and 2 different bolts for the front bumper cover is going to be cheaper to replace.

      Honest shops stick to book time, usually calculated by the manufacture then re-calculated by Alldata or Mitchell. If your repair shop isn't using these numbers as a guide, the TCO is going to vary greatly between owners of Identical cars.

      What's $800 cdn these days? about a 18 pack in usd?
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Vixen01 View Post
      In part, Jason has to run because it is faster than driving his car...

    10. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:33 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by gtiguy12 View Post
      You paid for an Audi, Now you are going to pay Audi repair prices to have it fixed.
      I've noticed VAG fans tend to get all defensive about this topic. So far, I've been told that half the expense of owning a car doesn't count, that I neglect my car, that I've been ripped off, and now that I bought the wrong car.

      I have said several times: I love VAG cars, and have owned (and will own) many (more). They're just not reliable, which the OP also pointed out. I know of, expect, and can happily afford the silly problems they have.

      Quote Originally Posted by gtiguy12 View Post
      Honest shops stick to book time, usually calculated by the manufacture then re-calculated by Alldata or Mitchell. If your repair shop isn't using these numbers as a guide, the TCO is going to vary greatly between owners of Identical cars.
      No idea how my guy calculates his rates. He comes highly recommended by many owners of European cars in my city, and we do have a number of choices. He does good work and charges for it honestly. That doesn't mean it's cheap, especially in Canada and for Audis (and Porsches, but at least those are reliable).

      Edit: why the bloody hell does iOS change cars to car's, and hell to he'll?
      Last edited by Jader Pack; 09-07-2011 at 01:44 AM.

    11. 09-07-2011 01:36 AM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by gtiguy12 View Post
      What's $800 cdn these days? about a 18 pack in usd?
      now now. best to remember (or learn) that the american peso is worth less than the Canadian dollar, and has been for some time.

    12. Member eweu's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 01:54 AM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I'm talking about the engine in my car, which is in many respects more difficult to service than many comparable cars. The difficulty of that servicing adds to the expense of servicing it, which adds to the TCO (unless you arbitrarily exclude certain costs as Shomegrown advocates).
      So since you abruptly changed the subject, I can assume you admit you misstated that you engine was "designed to be mounted transversely in FWD VWs." Because that's just clearly wrong.

      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I've noticed VAG fans tend to get all defensive about this topic. So far, I've been told that half the expense of owning a car doesn't count, that I neglect my car, that I've been ripped off, and now that I bought the wrong car.
      No, the problem is that you are projecting your personal, anecdotal experiences to the entire class of VW/Audi owners. Looking back at what I've spent on all the cars I've owned (roughly 45% VW/Audi, 55% other), I've spent far more maintaining the non-VW cars. I don't project that onto anyone else, though. In my experience, VWs are on par with everybody else. In my experience. Period. All cars break. I don't expect that to change.

      Go back and read your posts. Notice how many of them are absolute statements. Try rephrasing them and you might find yourself not expending so much negative energy. You seem to get worked up about this quite easily.

    13. Member gtiguy12's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 02:02 AM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I've noticed VAG fans tend to get all defensive about this topic. So far, I've been told that half the expense of owning a car doesn't count, that I neglect my car, that I've been ripped off, and now that I bought the wrong car.
      I get defensive because I know the actual cost of repair, and what should be charged. That sucks that you have paid more (my opinion) than necessary to have your car fixed.

      On the other hand, my g/f had bought a 2001 A4 1.8T about a year before we started dating. Here's the list of common problems I have fixed for her. 180k miles on it now. she was adding a quart of oil a week when i met her, and every light except the airbag light was illuminated on the dash.

      Coil packs and spark plugs
      Passenger rear window regulator
      Passenger Front window regulator
      Timing belt and waterpump
      thermostat
      thermostat housing
      radiator
      brake booster hose
      combi valve
      abs control module
      both front outer cv joints and boots
      all front upper control arm links
      valve cover gasket
      timing chain tensioner seal and half moon
      crankcase breather gasket
      crankcase breather hose
      Major service
      Plugged heater core
      a/c compressor
      both front engine mounts
      front brake pads and rotors
      rear brake pads and rotors
      serpentine belts
      numerous check valves and vacuum hoses.

      This car is an automatic, and when the trans dies, the car will be left on the side of the road. She loves the car, but if someone asks me what I think of the B5 body style i just shake my head.
      Quote Originally Posted by VR6Vixen01 View Post
      In part, Jason has to run because it is faster than driving his car...

    14. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 02:03 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by eweu View Post
      So since you abruptly changed the subject, I can assume you admit you misstated that you engine was "designed to be mounted transversely in FWD VWs." Because that's just clearly wrong.
      Yeah, if that's where the 1.8T came from then I'm wrong. It's even stupider that it's so hard to service if it was designed to be mounted this way from the outset though.



      Quote Originally Posted by eweu View Post
      No, the problem is that you are projecting your personal, anecdotal experiences to the entire class of VW/Audi owners. Looking back at what I've spent on all the cars I've owned (roughly 45% VW/Audi, 55% other), I've spent far more maintaining the non-VW cars. I don't project that onto anyone else, though. In my experience, VWs are on par with everybody else. In my experience. Period. All cars break. I don't expect that to change.
      You seem to think that I have nothing to support my assertions but my own experiences. That is not the case. Every large study on reliability confirms what I'm saying: VWs and Audis are not reliable. What are you basing this idea that VW is on par with everyone else on?

    15. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 02:07 AM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by gtiguy12 View Post
      I get defensive because I know the actual cost of repair, and what should be charged. That sucks that you have paid more (my opinion) than necessary to have your car fixed.
      I still don't think I've been ripped off, but all the same if this car costs $X to fix, there are many comparable cars that would cost $X/2 to fix. Have you done the control arm / front end job on your GF's A4? Unbelievably, needlessly complex garbage, and it does not last long on our bumpy prairie roads.

    16. Member eweu's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 02:26 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      You seem to think that I have nothing to support my assertions but my own experiences. That is not the case. Every large study on reliability confirms what I'm saying: VWs and Audis are not reliable. What are you basing this idea that VW is on par with everyone else on?
      I think you put too much faith in those studies. Aside from a few consistent top performers (e.g. Lexus) the results are always all over the map. JD Power puts Scion mid pack in dependability for 2010, but Consumer Reports ranked it number one. JD Power also picked the A6 as the most dependable mid-size premium car. What this tells me is that I should not rely on arbitrary ratings. Heck, JD Power sent me a survey about the initial quality of my newly purchased Touareg. Of course it's perfect. It only has 400 miles on it in its first month!

      I can only make a decision based on my own experience and what I observe in others. I will continue to buy VWs and Audis because they make cars that appeal to me and have been acceptably reliable for me over the past 15-20 years. I will not make absolute statements that they are perfectly reliable. I will not make absolute statements that they are unreliable. They are simply cars. Just like every other one I've ever owned.

    17. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 02:35 AM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by eweu View Post
      I think you put too much faith in those studies. Aside from a few consistent top performers (e.g. Lexus) the results are always all over the map. JD Power puts Scion mid pack in dependability for 2010, but Consumer Reports ranked it number one. JD Power also picked the A6 as the most dependable mid-size premium car. What this tells me is that I should not rely on arbitrary ratings. Heck, JD Power sent me a survey about the initial quality of my newly purchased Touareg. Of course it's perfect. It only has 400 miles on it in its first month!
      I think you put too little faith in those studies. There are discrepancies in ranking based on differing criteria (Scion, for example) but by and large they have similar trends, especially for VW and Audi. So does Autobild, by the way. I'll take their data over anecdotes every time. Though, even if I were just using personal experience, mine has been very poor for VAG as opposed to many of the other car's I've owned.

      Also, initial quality is not the same study as dependability. The former is supposed to be the first few months of ownership, the latter is first three years.

    18. Member eweu's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 03:02 AM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I think you put too little faith in those studies.
      Sorry. I know a gimmick when I see one.

      There are discrepancies in ranking based on differing criteria (Scion, for example) but by and large they have similar trends, especially for VW and Audi. So does Autobild, by the way. I'll take their data over anecdotes every time.
      The trend seems to be that VW/Audi score middle of the pack in a era where the reported problem spread from top to bottom is at an all time low. Because of that, the middle comprises just about everyone these days. (Anyone who had to put up with cars built in the 70's is absolutely thrilled about even the most unreliable cars today.)

      Also, initial quality is not the same study as dependability. The former is supposed to be the first few months of ownership, the latter is first three years.
      Of course, that's obvious. But all manufacturers are subject to this, and I again say it is meaningless to query me 15-30 days after purchase. How many people blindly fill it out immediately? The methodology is suspect. I did keep the dollar they sent, though.

    19. Member Sidewayzracer's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 04:37 AM #89
      Ive owned my B5 A4 for almost 4 years, 2 more months and itll be 4 years. I havent had a single issue with it but the flange on the turbo coming off and the combi switch starting to wear out. im at 138K miles on it with the only thing it needs to be perfect is a used door the right color a weld on the exhaust pipe and the abs module repaired.

      Also own a E34 525I with a slushbox in it, 214K miles on the ODO and the only issue i have had with it is the cabin air filter melting a bit.

    20. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 04:47 AM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by ModernMaven View Post
      It's only stupid crap failing, parts that are poorly designed, perhaps.
      Now you understand the reason I tell people "I can't afford a Volkswagen and that's why I drive Porsches." It took 4 VW products for me to learn my lesson.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    21. Member Rabbit5GTI's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 06:44 AM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by eweu View Post
      Of course, that's obvious. But all manufacturers are subject to this, and I again say it is meaningless to query me 15-30 days after purchase. How many people blindly fill it out immediately? The methodology is suspect. I did keep the dollar they sent, though.
      I filled mine out, get paid a dollar for filling in a couple ovals...why not.

      They are bogus, though - but I still mentioned my rattling dash. Yes. My MkVI dash rattles, too.

      Why in the hell the robots and/or laborers in Wolfsburg can't tighten dash bolts correctly, I'll never know.

    22. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 07:03 AM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      There's your problem. You have to surrender all hope. Repairs macht frei.
      LOL, actually true. Read my sig.

      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Fair enough - though I don't include normal timing belt/water pump, tires, brake pads/rotors etc services as "repairs". That's normal maintenance.
      Counts toward TCO, but hardly reliability, IMO. I go through brakes&tyres like water, but that's because I track my cars. It has nothing to do with the quality or reliability of the systems.

      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Do European market VWs/Audis have these issues too?
      I wonder if maybe it has something to do with US pricing goals, and part sourcing compromises.
      It doesn't. The cars over here have issues, too. But people over here are much more vigilant about maintenance. And the rules are different, too - if you don't have your service manual full of stamps, you have no warranty, no recourse, no anything. Of course, the local shop can stamp your manual for you, because they did the work.

      At this point, I've owned six VWs, and all of them have been marginally interesting to um, what the hell? Two have been unquestionable factory specials (hello Puebla, hello Essen), two have been nearly uneventful, and two have been old enough when purchased that I really don't care what they need to live. The factory specials included a Swiss chassis/powertrain with a US interior and VIN and one that has halfshafts that do not exist in the ETKA. Even the dealership has to custom-make them. Oh well.

      My standard answer to the question "will you buy more VWs after all those issues?" is "Yes, I already own all the tools."
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    23. Member Sortafast's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 08:34 AM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      I'm not one of those people, nor do I neglect my cars. I've also noticed that the only people who blame the owners so consistently are German car fans.
      That's pretty standard around here. I was accused of not maintaining my 1.8T Jetta when it stranded me on the opposite side of town with only 40k miles on it. I took it in to the dealership for every scheduled maintenance that was noted in the manual.

      The fanboy told me it wasn't unreliable, it just needed "unscheduled maintenance."

      If you owned a reliable non-German car, they would accuse you of lying about the reliability. You're only off the hook because it's a Porsche.

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      09-07-2011 09:43 AM #94
      I have had every scheduled maintenance done. I am certainly not neglecting my car either.I think those that keep cars beyond warranty or lease terms are generally people who DO take the time to maintain their cars, as they intend for them to last longer.

      I think the suggestion that those who have repeated issues are not maintaining is woefully inaccurate and simplistic. Again, that was me, waving away issues. Like 'had I done X, I wouldnt be dealing with Y." But they happen anyway. None of the repeated issues I've had are even on a service schedule- coilpacks, coolant housing/flange, window regs. I guess you could argue that certain failures could be collateral damage from non maintenance, but that is not the case for my car. I am meticulous about maintenance.
      “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.” Ernest Hemingway

    25. 09-07-2011 10:16 AM #95
      I'm not going to list the issues I've had on my 07 GTI as I've beaten that drum repeatedly here only to receive the typical answers from the VW loyal. I will repeat again though that I've had more issues with this car than any other car, and its only got 30K miles, lives either in my garage, my driveway or the parking garage at work. It is driven maaaybe 100 miles per week, is 100% stock, and isn't beaten on...in other words, I'm in an abusive relationship. I give and give, and it just takes and smacks me around in return.

      I was once told here that my experience isn't enough to put the unreliable label on the entire brand. What people fail to grasp, and what Jader has pointed out, is that every major reliability study puts VW near the bottom of the heap. So I am merely supplementing my anecdotal experience with major studies spanning multiple years and thousands of subjects. That's apparently not enough for some here though.

    26. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 10:23 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      And how does it compare to other cars with timing chains? Shorter, eh?
      Not exactly. Chains are a crapshoot. Some could last the life of the vehicle, but many don't. Some experience tensioner failure. Some stretch and create noise/misfire issues. There are pros and cons to each, and neither really influence my decision.

      I don't buy economy cars though, it I was just looking for the cheapest way to get from point A to point B, I'd reconsider.

      If you can point me to an independent shop that will do the timing belt on my A4 for less than $800, I'll paypal you half the difference. Why so much? Because Audi mounted the 1.8T sideways in my car, making the timing belt impossible to access. Same reason I had to have the engine dropped to replace a faulty coolant flange. Why shouldn't the added expense of that design decision factor into the total cost of ownership of the car?
      I asked my local shop how much they usually charge. FYI - I paid less than $1000 for timing belt, water pump, plugs, coils, valve cover gaskets, and more on my Allroad. TB/WP alone probably would have been $600 or less. I can't see an A4 costing more.

      There's also oil changes on my Porsche, which cost exactly twice as much as for other cars because it uses twice the oil. Why shouldn't that count towards TCO? I spend $200 a year on oil on the Porsche, whereas other similar cars would be less than half that (like, say, an S2000).

      Tires are another example. Why shouldn't that count towards TCO? It costs me a lot more for tires on my Boxster than it would on an S2000.

      Many cars cost more to maintain, and need maintenance more often. It's incorrect not to factor that into TCO. The only people who do this are those who want to make German cars look more reliable and cheaper to run than they are.
      You're running off on a tanget here. I never said anything about TCO. I discussed the difference between repairs (which in my mind is something unscheduled and unexpected like a failed sensor) and maintanence (scheduled service like a timing belt). Both add into TCO.

      I don't get into worrying about things like tire cost - I'm the kind of person that's going to spend a lot on tires anyway. Even if I had a Prius, I'd be putting Pilot Sports on it.

    27. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 10:29 AM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post
      The difficulty of that servicing adds to the expense of servicing it, which adds to the TCO (unless you arbitrarily exclude certain costs as Shomegrown advocates).


      Pay attention. I didn't say anything remotely like that.

      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      LO
      Counts toward TCO, but hardly reliability, IMO. I go through brakes&tyres like water, but that's because I track my cars. It has nothing to do with the quality or reliability of the systems.


      Exactly. I also tend to buy higher quality tires/brakes which by design don't last that long at the expense of performance.

    28. 09-07-2011 10:37 AM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by ModernMaven View Post
      Nice.

      Seriously though, I just wanted to vent and I can only really do that here. Most others in my life do not understand my car obsession. My brother works for Ford, so I get constantly barraged with ' should have bought American.' Or my favorite ' you are the reason that this country is in the shape it's in- stop buying German cars.'

      I hate the 'I told you so's' when stupid isht breaks. I can take the time to fix them or pay to fix the issues, it just pisses me off that I wouldeven have to. I'm like a drug addict. I do it all under the cover of night so no one knows these things are happening.
      Just work part time at an advance auto parts or autozone etc and learn just how great and reliable American cars really are.

      That and after working in two garages im pretty positive that all cars are junk and have stupid **** go wrong with them.

      Also how is buying a german car built in mexico any worse than buying an american car built in mexico?
      Boiler Up!

      Make it three yards mother****er and we'll have an automobile race

    29. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 10:49 AM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      Not exactly. Chains are a crapshoot. Some could last the life of the vehicle, but many don't. Some experience tensioner failure. Some stretch and create noise/misfire issues. There are pros and cons to each, and neither really influence my decision.
      In my experience, they need less maintenance than belts. Where that's true, your policy of not "counting" timing belt changes makes no sense.

      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      I asked my local shop how much they usually charge. FYI - I paid less than $1000 for timing belt, water pump, plugs, coils, valve cover gaskets, and more on my Allroad. TB/WP alone probably would have been $600 or less. I can't see an A4 costing more.
      We pay more for things in Canada. I've received some PMs from people suggesting cheap American repair shops, and my reply was that I could pay for a mortgage in the US with the amount I'd save on repairs living down there. Don't get hung up on the exact dollar amounts, though, as the costs are still proportional. A cheaper car costs half as much to run here, and costs half as much to run there. This is the point I'm trying to make.

      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      You're running off on a tanget here. I never said anything about TCO. I discussed the difference between repairs (which in my mind is something unscheduled and unexpected like a failed sensor) and maintanence (scheduled service like a timing belt). Both add into TCO.
      Regular maintenance also counts towards reliability, as some cars need much more of it. There's no reason to exclude it in any sense.

      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      I don't get into worrying about things like tire cost - I'm the kind of person that's going to spend a lot on tires anyway. Even if I had a Prius, I'd be putting Pilot Sports on it.
      I don't know why you think I'm "worried" about it. I've said many times, in this thread and in others, that I am happy to pay the cost and can easily afford it. What bugs me is when people tell me it's not real, it's my fault, the repairs I do don't count, or any of the other million rationalizations the VW faithful push to make VWs look more reliable than they are.

      VAG cars are unreliable and expensive to maintain. It's the OP's point and I agree with him.

    30. Member Jader Pack's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 10:50 AM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post


      Pay attention. I didn't say anything remotely like that.
      Care to clarify, then?

    31. Member ctrapeni's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 10:53 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by ModernMaven View Post
      Nice.

      I hate the 'I told you so's' when stupid isht breaks. I can take the time to fix them or pay to fix the issues, it just pisses me off that I would even have to. I'm like a drug addict. I do it all under the cover of night so no one knows these things are happening.

      I was the same way for the last few years with my A4. I always equated it with an abusive relationship. When its good, its great, when its bad, its terrible. Every time I had an unexpected repair, I would convince myself that now my car has its bugs worked out and won't beat up my wallet for another year. I NEVER made it 6 months without an unscheduled service in the last 6 years I owned it (miles 50,000 to 82,000)! Granted, I never broke down or was stranded, but every scheduled oil change had another must fix item added to it.

      I still miss it, my WRX doesn't quite feel the same. Of course, nothing but oil changes in the year I have owned it so far.

    32. Member MCTB's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 11:02 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      All brands have their issues.

      It's just best that you buy an old British roadsters along with your VW/Audi product and then be happy that the German marques give you less grief.
      Yeah, okay



      I am beginning to be the same way. I went MKII (used), MKV 2.5 (purchased new), MKV GLI (purchased new) and then realized I needed more room. I was in love, and still am, with the allroad. Found a sweet '05 with 23k miles on it. I knew that they were a bear but everything I read was from owners with high mileage and older cars. I figured I had a leg up on them being that mine was basically brand new with low miles, had a full history with an Audi dealer (showed no issues) and had a bumper to bumper warranty. I thought I was set. Drove it and within 2k miles everything started going nuts. O2 sensors, ride height sensors, airbags, vehicle speed sensor, brake light switch, turbo issues and then, finally the secondary air pump began to make its jet engine 'I am dying' noise. I had the warranty and everything was covered but I got tired of spending more time in an A3 service loaner than in the car I was paying for (all within 4 months of purchase with less than 26k miles). Add that to the numerous failures I had in my 2.5 and my GLI, I had had enough. I still see allroads on the road and lust for one. It is a perfect vehicle in every way to me. Ive been burned by VW and Audi products too many times to take the risk on another, even with a warranty.

      I feel you, man. I completely understand.

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      09-07-2011 11:25 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by Jader Pack View Post

      I don't know why you think I'm "worried" about it. I've said many times, in this thread and in others, that I am happy to pay the cost and can easily afford it. What bugs me is when people tell me it's not real, it's my fault, the repairs I do don't count, or any of the other million rationalizations the VW faithful push to make VWs look more reliable than they are.

      VAG cars are unreliable and expensive to maintain. It's the OP's point and I agree with him.
      FWIW, I am female.

      I'm not worried either. Just annoyed.

      I am aware that if you buy a nicer car, you should expect to pay nicer prices for maintenance and repair. I'd rather spend $475 on something else on the car rather than window regulators that have been failing for ten years on these cars. So they engineer the piss out of their engines and other things, and ignore very basic items such as these.

      I dropped the car off at my garage today. They are good to me and cut me a break on labor when they can. I trust them when I can't or won't do stuff myself. But the part alone is $175. That is the kind of stuff that sticks with you. Plus, I had my eye on a pair of $400 boots that I am not getting because my car just sucked that up.

      The part I replaced related to the coolant leak was $30 and it would have been almost $500 after labor with an independent shop, because of its location and takes time to get to.

      I guess you could argue that it is fortunate that it is piddly crap that is easily fixed and identifiable than a catastrophic failure of something. Speaking of which, any of you had to replace your turbo?

      And what I am looking at mileage wise for clutch replacement? I like to plan ahead.
      “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.” Ernest Hemingway

    34. 09-07-2011 11:54 AM #104
      I did my clutch on our B5 A4 at 116k miles. The clutch was still engaging, but you could tell by the pedal position and feel that it was getting close.

    35. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      09-07-2011 12:41 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by ModernMaven View Post
      FThe part I replaced related to the coolant leak was $30 and it would have been almost $500 after labor with an independent shop, because of its location and takes time to get to.
      If that was the coolant T on the back of the head, that is ridiculous. I can do that on a longitudinal 1.8t in about an hour. Girl hands FTW!!!!!
      A(u). Klasse A, unbeschrankt, ungedrosselt
      Compared to a British roadster, all Volkswagens are reliable!

      nevAr Lose - DE Minister of Foreign Affairs and Deputy Bankruptcy Controller - IPROfftopikstan

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