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    Thread: Say Hello to the APR TT RS

    1. 08-14-2012 04:44 PM #456
      Whenever I open the forum and see a recent post by Aaron, my heart skips a beat, and I rush in for new info on STG3..

      127mph is ****ing moving...
      I'm sure with everything at 100% he'll touch 129/130 on a good day.

      You are taking deposits when?
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    2. 08-14-2012 04:50 PM #457
      Movies of that can be found on Youtube, it took place on Santa Pod.
      Nobody's Tomorrow is Guaranteed.

    3. 08-14-2012 04:53 PM #458
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      08-14-2012 05:00 PM #459
      BTW that's on stock fueling with the stock clutch.
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    5. 08-14-2012 05:13 PM #460
      Quote Originally Posted by arin@apr View Post
      btw that's on stock fueling with the stock clutch.
      good golly miss molley
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      08-14-2012 05:31 PM #461
      Quote Originally Posted by joneze93tsi View Post
      good golly miss molley
      Ohhh, yes!
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      08-14-2012 05:39 PM #462
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      One of our 6MT cars just crossed the quarter mile line with a trap speed of 127 MPH though.
      Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?

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      08-14-2012 05:57 PM #463
      Holy **** the rear end squats on that launch. Its like free air bags.

      11.37 is definitely fast. But do you guys think 10s are possible? Any idea what the 60' looks like?

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      08-14-2012 05:58 PM #464
      Quote Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
      Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?

      The driver thinks he'll get into the 10's this weekend if the weather cooperates. He said the car wasn't running right, and when he got back to the shop he found a fault boost sensor and a small boost leak. I guess we'll see. That said, I'm sure many variables come into play, and he's not even running on the finished product. He's also running street tires and a full interior.

      When it comes to drag racing, and manual shifting, I wouldn't say any time is "easy". Aren't those Tial 770 B5 S4 guys just getting into the 11's with 700 HP?
      Last edited by Arin@APR; 08-14-2012 at 06:00 PM.
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      The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

    10. 08-14-2012 06:07 PM #465
      Quote Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
      Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?


      Go drive a turbo street car with 600-700hp on the stock clutch to 10's and let us know how it goes.
      Getting a turbo AWD car off the line properly without any driver aids is not as easy as most make it out to be. If this was a DSG car, I have no doubts it would be high 10's EASILY.

      For reference a 997 Turbo S PDK can hit 10.7-10.8 @ 127-130.
      NOT gonna happen with the 6mt I don't care if john force on PCP is driving it.

      PS: The RS is a few hundred punds lighter as well. GO TEAM
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    11. 08-14-2012 07:04 PM #466
      For what its worth, my friends hybrid turbo 650hp manual 911 turbo does the 1/4 mile in mid 11's at this same track
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    12. Member jmh2002's Avatar
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      08-14-2012 07:32 PM #467
      Quote Originally Posted by Poverty View Post
      For what its worth, my friends hybrid turbo 650hp manual 911 turbo does the 1/4 mile in mid 11's at this same track
      Seems like everything is about right then
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      08-16-2012 07:53 AM #468
      Quote Originally Posted by jmh2002 View Post
      Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?

      Yes, it should with Jonny at the wheel, perhaps not with a mediocre driver.

      DSG car with 420hp so 200bhp less than this manual transmission car has done the 1/4m marginally quicker. (11.371 (DSG) vs 11.372 (6MT) ) The APR Stage 3 car is trapping 127.68mph vs Stage 2 DSG car trapping 122.3mph so the horsepower advantage is definitely there, just needs a few tweeks and Im sure the 6MT car will eventually hit the 10's. I suspect a 10.8 @ 132mph is on the cards when its finished and Jonny is on the ball, as Arin says, looks like he was having issues with a boost leak/sensor so expect a better time next time around

      Last edited by MitchyRS; 08-16-2012 at 08:00 AM.
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      0-60mph = 3.29, 0-100mph = 7.38, 1/4m = 11.37 @ 122.3mph (1.74 60ft)

      Acceleration Video here...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AATsvLPXSM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdLWitBp1F4

    14. Member InTTruder's Avatar
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      08-17-2012 02:28 PM #469
      My TT RS following the APR Stage 2 + RSC mods.




      First-
      Kudos to Doug, Keith, Grant, and the whole team at APR who did the R&D, mule/prototyping, and delivery of my TT RS. While I was galivanting about Spain and China, they not only completed the project to better-than-OEM quality, but took care of the car, detailed it, and delivered to me at a time and place of my convenience. I am VERY impressed.

      Dr. Jekyll:
      - Quiet idle (more about that later)
      - Linear, tractable driving about town, over hill and dale, and in difficult stop-and-go traffic.
      - Amazing fuel performance: I can usually hit 29 mpg avg to work, and about 24 going home (higher traffic density) on surface streets and artery roads. That makes for 26.5 mpg on the commute- not bad, in fact incredible.
      - No drive-line jerkiness or clutch difficulties, including some serious time spent while hammering along during TT-E and HelenBack. The car behaves perhaps even better than OEM: I attribute this to the increased sampling and subsequent better EMS/fuel performance of the package.

      - About that quiet idle:

      Mr. Hyde:
      - He reveals a small bit of himself when starting from cold iron- the precat has to hit a pretty good temperature before it stops barking, so on early AM starts for my commute I strap it all on, connect my ICE, start, listen for the sounds of good oil pressure, and drive away from my bedroom community. By the time I am at the main highway (300 yards or so, past 5 houses asleeping!), we are warm and running silent and deep, like an SSN-21 Seawolf.
      - The throttle is linear, and I have not experienced any turbo lag as a result of the change in the performance graphs (see earlier thread discussions below). The car is SWEET JESUS quick. I haven't timed it, but my 60 y/o butt dyno wants to say 3.2 for 0-60 (0-100 for my Canadian friends), give or take. And there just is no need for winding it up to 3500-4000 and dumping the clutch. In fact, I consider that a recipe for disaster.
      - The boost and torque come on RIGHT NOW. If the TT RS was a cruise missile before, it is now a hypersonic sub-orbital WMD, capable of obliterating modified Ms and Zs and Cs at will. PERIOD. The RS was already capable, even with quattro-induced understeer: you just point and play. Now the exit from an apex is monstrous, and straight line work is like reeling in small fish.
      - I haven't probed top-end speed, and may not be able to, even at AMP. I had already hit 130mph (209kph) at AMP up on top of Eau Rouge after T16. That alone is significant. The braking and tires are limiting factors now, and I need to get Carbotechs and fluid as a minimum before the October HPDE at AMP.

      Again- the quality of the work, the informativeness of the personnel, and the customer service for this R&D project are hallmarks of what lurks beneath the skin.

      While you're at it, ask Chris Conners for his impressions. I think he drove it Wednesday night, but my 60 y/o brain is suffering from the time-warp introduced by hard pulls in the TT RS!

      Git ya some, as we say down South!
      "The Spartans do not ask how MANY enemy there are. The Spartans merely enquire WHERE they are."

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      08-21-2012 01:47 AM #470
      Hey Arin, could we get a Stage 3 update??
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      08-21-2012 12:16 PM #471
      Quote Originally Posted by Marty View Post
      Hey Arin, could we get a Stage 3 update??
      Currently testing a few design changes. Less weight. Better design. More control. I'll have an update sometime in the near future once I have data.
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      The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

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      08-22-2012 03:07 PM #472


      For those who've worked hard for the things they own, you deserve it.
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      The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

    18. Member InTTruder's Avatar
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      08-22-2012 03:21 PM #473
      ^^^^^
      LIKE!
      "The Spartans do not ask how MANY enemy there are. The Spartans merely enquire WHERE they are."

    19. 08-22-2012 05:33 PM #474
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post


      For those who've worked hard for the things they own, you deserve it.
      The Manual gearbox does this turbo kit no good at all.
      The standing starts are awful at the least.
      This turbo kit would really bloom with a S-Tronic.
      Nobody's Tomorrow is Guaranteed.

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      08-22-2012 05:38 PM #475
      Quote Originally Posted by R5T View Post
      The Manual gearbox does this turbo kit no good at all.
      The standing starts are awful at the least.
      This turbo kit would really bloom with a S-Tronic.
      Ugh.....

      This is a 6MT. Stock clutch.

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      The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

    21. 08-22-2012 05:53 PM #476
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Ugh.....

      This is a 6MT. Stock clutch.

      Yep, still awful IMHO.

      The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
      S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).
      Nobody's Tomorrow is Guaranteed.

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      08-22-2012 07:09 PM #477
      Quote Originally Posted by R5T View Post
      The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
      S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).
      Where do people come up with this stuff
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      The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.

    23. 08-22-2012 07:34 PM #478
      Quote Originally Posted by R5T View Post
      Yep, still awful IMHO.

      The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
      S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).

      DAFUQ?
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    24. 08-22-2012 07:52 PM #479
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Where do people come up with this stuff
      That's what Hans does all day, you should see some of the rumors and photoshops he comes up with.

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      08-23-2012 06:46 AM #480
      Quote Originally Posted by R5T View Post
      Yep, still awful IMHO.

      The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
      S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).
      You should consult the stars, the augurs, the bones, or the charts-

      The APR Stg 2 + RSC is 464 lbs-ft TQ. Whether or not Audi imports that with a DSG is likely a marketing, not a technical, decision.
      "The Spartans do not ask how MANY enemy there are. The Spartans merely enquire WHERE they are."

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      08-31-2012 01:23 AM #481
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Currently testing a few design changes. Less weight. Better design. More control. I'll have an update sometime in the near future once I have data.
      2012 TT-RS in Suzuka Gray

    27. 08-31-2012 05:38 AM #482
      Quote Originally Posted by R5T View Post
      The Manual gearbox does this turbo kit no good at all.
      The standing starts are awful at the least.
      This turbo kit would really bloom with a S-Tronic.
      Comeon Hans everything you say these days is negative!

      Wheres the old you gone, and the love of audi power?
      Audi TTRS: APR Stage 3+: Race Developments Built Motor, Race Developments Flowed Cylinder Head, APR FMIC, Scorpion Titanium Exhaust, VWR Engine Mounts, VWR Intake, Race Developments Superfinished GearBox, Helix Race Clutch,42Draft Shifter Bushing,Bilstein B16 PSS10, 034 Motorsport ARB,WhiteLine Drop Links,R8 Calipers,Braided Lines,Powerflex Bushes,Mintex 1155 Pads,SRF Fluid, Fusch Titan Pro S Oil, Recaro Pole Positions, Kenwood DNX5210BT.

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      08-31-2012 05:54 PM #483
      Quote Originally Posted by Marty View Post
      I need to start visiting this side of the forums more often
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    29. 09-06-2012 01:57 PM #484
      As a foreword, I didn't come to troll, or flame on APR, or VW/Audi in general, or any one of you, but after a good amount of reading on this chassis and powertrain, theres a few things that haven't been discussed in this thread that I think need to be said...

      The TT-RS and APR's offering of a GTX30 / GTX35 based upgrade is definitely cool - but for ~$8k, people are seeing 500-600whp from internally unmodified, GT35 powered, 2 liters, reliably - while still trapping 11sec 1/4mi times in the 120-130mph range (Think Honda K20).
      I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. They'd really have my attention if it was in the $10k - $15k range (though I highly doubt it), which even then, considering performance vs. total cost (including vehicle), it'd probably be pretty close to the 0-60 times of a GT-R, though it'd also cost roughly as much as well. A 2009 GT-R can be found in the upper $50k range, about the same as the 2012 TTRS. It seems common assumption, however, that an aftermarket uprated clutch would be needed for any kind of longevity with a GTX30 / 35 on the TT-RS. Arin also mentioned connecting rods, specifically, to make the power reliably (which actually surprises me somewhat).
      Assuming the above, why not just start with an equivalent platform from another manufacturer? :\ (namely, the GT-R)

      The other thing that really annoys me - and I'm not sure if this is due to APR withholding knowledge to assure their place in the business, or if its due to Audi/VW's ECU logic and encryption algorithims (REALLY? We're encrypting ECU's now? WTH for??) - is that with the TT-RS and a "flash" based tune (or what I would call a "base map"), there is no solution to alter/implement things like launch control RPM or two step; Boost-by-gear mappings; DATALOG! (thats a big one); adjust stability control/traction control (by means other than the pre-determined configurations stored on the console/dash buttons); force diagnostic sensors on/off (eg. - if you're using a speed density tune, then you have no need for a mass airflow sensor - I'd bet the TT-RS will throw a CEL if you were to remove the MAF on a speed density tune (which is probably what APR reflashes are based on) or if you were to remove a secondary oxygen sensor, in the case of no cat. converter, effectively making it impossible to pass inspection legally in many states.); add and map new sensors to the ECU, to be controlled and/or monitored by the ECU logic and installed mapping; or even just VIEW diagnostic trouble codes.
      Dare I say, that this makes Hondata and Cobb solutions superior to what APR is offering. But again, I don't know if its due to the extent of barricades that Audi/VW has put in place on their ECUs, and the effort involved with flashing them, or if its APR not wanting to share "secrets", and monopolize.

      No two 'like" cars are going to be exactly the same. Nor are two "like" powertrains going to be exactly the same, and I'm not convinced that the quality control exercised on the powertrain of the TT-RS is stringent enough (or even could be stringent enough) that a blanket reflash is going to be accurate for every TT-RS to extract all potential power (or in the case of a slightly less capable powertrain: reduce power, by means of timing and fueling - Of course, this is dependent on how aggressive APR is with their re-flashes - though I'm sure it'll be fine for a very high margin of customers - which is my case and point...)

      Having said that - I'd really like to see a full-on tuning solution (eg. Hondata / Cobb / etc) that utilizes the OEM ECU, and retains the OEM ECU logic (vs. a "piggy-back" or replacement ECU system [eg. AEM EMS]) - At that point, anyone with tuning knowledge, or a third party tuner, would have the ability to apply accurate ignition timing and fueling for open and closed loop operation, while targeting desired AFRs without knock - all the while being able to pass state mandated safety/emissions inspections (assuming no visual inspection is done, in the case no cat is present.)

      [flamesuiton]

    30. 09-06-2012 02:10 PM #485
      Quote Originally Posted by PainIs4ThaWeak View Post
      As a foreword, I didn't come to troll, or flame on APR, or VW/Audi in general, or any one of you, but after a good amount of reading on this chassis and powertrain, theres a few things that haven't been discussed in this thread that I think need to be said...

      The TT-RS and APR's offering of a GTX30 / GTX35 based upgrade is definitely cool - but for ~$8k, people are seeing 500-600whp from internally unmodified, GT35 powered, 2 liters, reliably - while still trapping 11sec 1/4mi times in the 120-130mph range (Think Honda K20).
      I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. They'd really have my attention if it was in the $10k - $15k range (though I highly doubt it), which even then, considering performance vs. total cost (including vehicle), it'd probably be pretty close to the 0-60 times of a GT-R, though it'd also cost roughly as much as well. A 2009 GT-R can be found in the upper $50k range, about the same as the 2012 TTRS. It seems common assumption, however, that an aftermarket uprated clutch would be needed for any kind of longevity with a GTX30 / 35 on the TT-RS. Arin also mentioned connecting rods, specifically, to make the power reliably (which actually surprises me somewhat).
      Assuming the above, why not just start with an equivalent platform from another manufacturer? :\ (namely, the GT-R)

      The other thing that really annoys me - and I'm not sure if this is due to APR withholding knowledge to assure their place in the business, or if its due to Audi/VW's ECU logic and encryption algorithims (REALLY? We're encrypting ECU's now? WTH for??) - is that with the TT-RS and a "flash" based tune (or what I would call a "base map"), there is no solution to alter/implement things like launch control RPM or two step; Boost-by-gear mappings; DATALOG! (thats a big one); adjust stability control/traction control (by means other than the pre-determined configurations stored on the console/dash buttons); force diagnostic sensors on/off (eg. - if you're using a speed density tune, then you have no need for a mass airflow sensor - I'd bet the TT-RS will throw a CEL if you were to remove the MAF on a speed density tune (which is probably what APR reflashes are based on) or if you were to remove a secondary oxygen sensor, in the case of no cat. converter, effectively making it impossible to pass inspection legally in many states.); add and map new sensors to the ECU, to be controlled and/or monitored by the ECU logic and installed mapping; or even just VIEW diagnostic trouble codes.
      Dare I say, that this makes Hondata and Cobb solutions superior to what APR is offering. But again, I don't know if its due to the extent of barricades that Audi/VW has put in place on their ECUs, and the effort involved with flashing them, or if its APR not wanting to share "secrets", and monopolize.

      No two 'like" cars are going to be exactly the same. Nor are two "like" powertrains going to be exactly the same, and I'm not convinced that the quality control exercised on the powertrain of the TT-RS is stringent enough (or even could be stringent enough) that a blanket reflash is going to be accurate for every TT-RS to extract all potential power (or in the case of a slightly less capable powertrain: reduce power, by means of timing and fueling - Of course, this is dependent on how aggressive APR is with their re-flashes - though I'm sure it'll be fine for a very high margin of customers - which is my case and point...)

      Having said that - I'd really like to see a full-on tuning solution (eg. Hondata / Cobb / etc) that utilizes the OEM ECU, and retains the OEM ECU logic (vs. a "piggy-back" or replacement ECU system [eg. AEM EMS]) - At that point, anyone with tuning knowledge, or a third party tuner, would have the ability to apply accurate ignition timing and fueling for open and closed loop operation, while targeting desired AFRs without knock - all the while being able to pass state mandated safety/emissions inspections (assuming no visual inspection is done, in the case no cat is present.)

      [flamesuiton]
      This is your first post, on a subject you are ill informed on.
      Of course you are a troll, so please go elsewhere.
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    31. Member
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      Jan 14th, 2003
      Location
      Houston, TX
      Posts
      1,911
      Vehicles
      2012 Porsche Carrera 991/2011 MINI S
      09-06-2012 02:14 PM #486
      I'm kind of at a loss too. Guy joins the forum just to say he really doesn't know much about VAG technology, but that he thinks APR sucks or is "withholding" information.
      And then wonders why they don't just tune Nissans instead?
      Houston, TX
      2012 Porsche Carrera 991

    32. 09-06-2012 02:16 PM #487
      Quote Originally Posted by mtbscoTT View Post
      I'm kind of at a loss too. Guy joins the forum just to say he really doesn't know much about VAG technology, but that he thinks APR sucks or is "withholding" information.
      And then wonders why they don't just tune Nissans instead?
      Exactly, he has no purpose other than to troll, then says, "I'm not here to troll".

      DAFUQ?
      13 Passt TDI 6MT
      13 GTR

    33. 09-06-2012 02:18 PM #488
      Just stated facts. Point out errors if you find any.

      Otherwise, thanks for your valuable input

    34. 09-06-2012 02:22 PM #489
      Quote Originally Posted by PainIs4ThaWeak View Post
      Assuming the above, why not just start with an equivalent platform from another manufacturer? :\ (namely, the GT-R)[flamesuiton]
      why don't you go to nagtroc and post over there? dun feed the troll.

    35. 09-06-2012 02:31 PM #490
      Quote Originally Posted by PainIs4ThaWeak View Post
      I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. <---This is hilariously stupid in of itself.

      Assuming the above, why not just start with an equivalent platform from another manufacturer? :\ (namely, the GT-R) <---- Wrong Forum you retarded troll.

      (eg. - if you're using a speed density tune, then you have no need for a mass airflow sensor - I'd bet the TT-RS will throw a CEL if you were to remove the MAF on a speed density tune (which is probably what APR reflashes are based on) <-- 200% Wrong, The RS is MAP based and has no MAF to begin with and APR's MAF tunes still use the MAF... Again, retarded troll.


      if you were to remove a secondary oxygen sensor, in the case of no cat. converter, effectively making it impossible to pass inspection legally in many states <--- APR already tunes around Test Pipes and has for years, ask me how I know?... Again. retarded troll.
      Now please, GTFO.
      13 Passt TDI 6MT
      13 GTR

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