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    Thread: 300 wheel hp supercharged vr6

    1. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 01:07 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by tdmopar59 View Post
      I was going to do oem bearings, possibly the performance rings from German auto parts unless oem is better, mk4 head gasket kit? Input?
      I would not recommend this at all, especially since you are going to use a chip tune. If anything I'd be considering a headspacer not a MK4 headgasket which will increase compression.

      For 300hp having the head modded is a waste of time and money. If you have money to burn I will provide you my Paypal address and you can make a sizeable deposit just for shyttss and giggles.

      262's are the popular cam choice for moderate power goals due to their price (also works well both NA & FI).
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    2. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 01:12 PM #37
      Okay the head gasket situation has had me a little confused. So a head spacer lowers compression the mk4 must raise it than... Should I just get a stock one since I'm not going huge power and it will be n/a for a while or get a spacer? 262's do seem decent for the money and should make the next year more fun but I'm starting to think I might turbo and than modify later if need be ( and by need I mean want Haha )
      Last edited by tdmopar59; 09-29-2011 at 01:14 PM.

    3. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 01:29 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by tdmopar59 View Post
      Okay the head gasket situation has had me a little confused. So a head spacer lowers compression the mk4 must raise it than... Should I just get a stock one since I'm not going huge power and it will be n/a for a while or get a spacer?
      That question is going to open a whole can of worms. I suggest you search carefully about the different compression ratios currently available. You are going to get varying responses on what compression ratio to run but this is what I suggest.

      1. Stay the **** away from Mk3 headgaskets as they are horrible (composite card-like material) and do not like boost very much. Especially if it is the original one (making it at least > 10yrs old). If you start getting too boost happy it will blow out on you. These gaskets can be used only if you are very timid with the boost and assuming that it is in decent condition to begin with (but how would you know this unless you removed it for inspection).

      2. I would not recommend running a Mk4 headgasket if you intend to turbo your car, again especially because you are going to run a chip and not a customized stand alone system on race gas etc. You are playing with fire with that high compression, high intake temp, aggressive timing combination. Good luck!

      3. A stainless steel headspacer by any of the "reputable" companies out there will lower your compression enough to keep you out of trouble when you start dialing up the boost. I am not even to suggest which one (brand nor compression level) for you to go with as that is very subjective.

      4. If you must (whatever that means)stay stock compression there are some companies that make stainless gaskets that maintain stock compression and don't have the vulnerability that your Mk3 OEM gasket has.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    4. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 01:50 PM #39
      Looks like that's my next section to research. And as far as rings... If I wanna go more power in the future (nothing insane) do I still just need rings? What are people using oem or aftermarket?? Thanks for all the input its greatly appreciated

    5. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 01:53 PM #40
      If the bottom end comes apart, you will need a hone & rings. Well..... you technically don't "need" them, but you'd be asking for trouble by assembling it back the way it came apart. I wouldn't recommend anything other than OEM rings.

      I wouldn't recommend lower than 9:1 compression.... my car is at 9.5:1 and I'm @ 17 lbs on a 6262, no melted pistons thusfar....

    6. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 02:07 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      If the bottom end comes apart, you will need a hone & rings. Well..... you technically don't "need" them, but you'd be asking for trouble by assembling it back the way it came apart. I wouldn't recommend anything other than OEM rings.

      I wouldn't recommend lower than 9:1 compression.... my car is at 9.5:1 and I'm @ 17 lbs on a 6262, no melted pistons thusfar....
      17psi on stock pistons with fresh rings? Thats awesome! Which rings? That's why my goal is about 12 psi at 325hp so I can turn it up get more boost and power when I wanna go wild

    7. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 02:20 PM #42
      Not quite.... my bottom end was bored to 2.9 and I have Wiseco 9:1 pistons. I'm using the MKIV gasket so my final compression is somewhere between 9:1 and 9.5:1. I used the Wiseco rings since they are oversized and made for the pistons, but if you are using stock 81mm pistons, OEM rings are more than fine to use.

      I would more than likely still be using OEM pistons, but I bought my car blown up to rebuild it, and found some scoring in the cylinder walls so I was forced to bore it out. I would also still be using the Kinetic 60 trim turbo that came with the car, but I managed to trash it as well, and went ahead and upgraded to the 6262....
      Last edited by SVTDanny; 09-29-2011 at 02:22 PM.

    8. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 02:34 PM #43
      I see. So stock pistons with fresh rings are fine to boost up to what Psi and HP ? I will have to organize all my research at the end of my research to help people out in the future.

    9. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 02:37 PM #44
      There's a VR6 running bottom 10's and trapping 150 MPH on a bone stock bottom end... it's more than stout enough for what you want to do. I don't know the record for a stock bottom end VR, but I would guess somewhere in the 600-700hp neighborhood, maybe more.

    10. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 03:26 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      There's a VR6 running bottom 10's and trapping 150 MPH on a bone stock bottom end... it's more than stout enough for what you want to do. I don't know the record for a stock bottom end VR, but I would guess somewhere in the 600-700hp neighborhood, maybe more.
      Well that's 100% awesome Haha. Great news though saves me some $$$

    11. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 06:14 PM #46
      I'm having a problem trying to see how the whole headspacer situation works out. I feel like 10:1 might limit my boost but a 9:1 would suck while naturally aspirated....

    12. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 07:45 PM #47
      Don't go lower than 9:1 and you'll be fine. There will be little difference in driveability at that point. Once you get into the 8's and lower, then it starts to feel "mushy" off boost.

    13. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-29-2011 10:28 PM #48
      Here are the two kits I'm looking at... are the grant piston rings any good or should i stick with oem?

      http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2552

      http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=3974

    14. 09-29-2011 10:30 PM #49
      Build it once. Think long and hard about your end goal for the car. Are you power hungry, trying to impress people, drag racer, get bored easy? If so then go 8.5:1 spacer off the bat IMO bc your going to push the setup on 93 octane most likely. If your going to wanna push 20-25psi on the street then why play with high compression. There are exceptions, but traditionally what compression have OE manufacturers chosen for higher boost turbo engines? 8-8.5:1.

      I went 9:1 b/c I don't need to run 20 psi on the street
      -15psi on the street on 93 octane is enough to kill 99.9% of what I run into and also saves my trans. A ferrari found out last weekend what 400hp in a 2600lb. car can do.
      -20psi at the track with a 50/50 93/105 octane mix is enough to trap 130mph and run right up to roll bar limit.

      Unless your talking about some serious power and this is going to be a drag car leave the bottom end/head alone. Boost, intercooler, spacer, cams, full exhaust, chip tune. All you need. Anything more on a non race car is not needed and not based on logic.
      93' Corrado SLC Turbo-11.490@128.76mph-street car
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      Allmotor VW's are slow
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    15. 09-29-2011 10:32 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by tdmopar59 View Post
      Here are the two kits I'm looking at... are the grant piston rings any good or should i stick with oem?

      http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=2552

      http://www.mjmautohaus.com/catalog/p...oducts_id=3974
      OEM is all you need man. I rebuilt my motor and everything is OEM except for the ARP headstuds and the C2 9:1 spacer. 20psi is nothing.
      93' Corrado SLC Turbo-11.490@128.76mph-street car
      96' Volvo 854R-ready for more boost
      Allmotor VW's are slow
      Race cars are for people with an inferiority complex

    16. Member passatvr607's Avatar
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      09-30-2011 02:17 PM #51
      you need the mk4 head gasket for the head spacer. get your self a set of 268s and go with a #42 set up go with united motor sports software . doing all the work to the motor is a waste of time if it runs leave it alone you can do more harm than good. i would go with a t60 with a 60 or 83 exh side its up too you. get a good boost controller and a good wideband. and you can range form 250 hp to 450. with hitting aa few buttons. my buddy has a stock clutch on 22 pounds with no problems so far . so you can try the stocker till it goes and save up for a diff as well . i have a peliquin in mine but i want to get a wavtec
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    17. 09-30-2011 02:59 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by passatvr607 View Post
      you need the mk4 head gasket for the head spacer. get your self a set of 268s and go with a #42 set up go with united motor sports software . doing all the work to the motor is a waste of time if it runs leave it alone you can do more harm than good. i would go with a t60 with a 60 or 83 exh side its up too you. get a good boost controller and a good wideband. and you can range form 250 hp to 450. with hitting aa few buttons. my buddy has a stock clutch on 22 pounds with no problems so far . so you can try the stocker till it goes and save up for a diff as well . i have a peliquin in mine but i want to get a wavtec
      Stock clutch started to slip on me in 4th gear at 12psi ~320wtq especially as it got colder out.
      93' Corrado SLC Turbo-11.490@128.76mph-street car
      96' Volvo 854R-ready for more boost
      Allmotor VW's are slow
      Race cars are for people with an inferiority complex

    18. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      09-30-2011 07:12 PM #53
      I think I'm just going to buy an engine and rebuild that one all the way up to a vrt while I drive my car as a daily and when the motor is ready to drop in I will swap them and sell my engine. I'm basically seeing it as a core charge

      as far as the turbo kit I believe I'm going with the kinetic kit.

    19. Member passatvr607's Avatar
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      09-30-2011 09:05 PM #54
      make your own i put mine together for less than 2200 over the winter with all good a few used things but most new . and dont sell that motor i boosted 25 pounds on a vr6 with over 220 k on it and the bearing on the oil pump shaft went bad and wasted the motor just run that one there is a kid tim with 700 hp to his and races it every week end .
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    20. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      10-01-2011 03:30 PM #55
      ouch... I will have to look into piecing one together as that could be a nice way to save $$

    21. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      10-05-2011 06:54 AM #56
      no one with a suggestion on rings?? I'm assuming oem but wanted to see if people were running anything else with success or if the general consensus is that the oem rings are best for stock pistons...

    22. Member V-dubbulyuh's Avatar
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      10-05-2011 07:12 AM #57
      Either is fine, people have had sucess with both. I like sticking with the OEM rings but this is just preference and is not based on proof that one is superior to the other.
      "OP sounds like a MKIV guy"

    23. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      10-05-2011 09:45 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by V-dubbulyuh View Post
      Either is fine, people have had sucess with both. I like sticking with the OEM rings but this is just preference and is not based on proof that one is superior to the other.
      Yeah I think I will go oem as it seems plenty of people run them with fi and I haven't seen many issues posted.

    24. Member GinsterMan98's Avatar
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      10-05-2011 09:47 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by djsheijkdfj View Post
      Don't go lower than 9:1 and you'll be fine. There will be little difference in driveability at that point. Once you get into the 8's and lower, then it starts to feel "mushy" off boost.
      Agreed, I ran my motor NA with 9:1 spacer and it was fine. SLight torque loss.
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    25. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      10-10-2011 08:19 PM #60
      another quick question before i get a motor (hopefully sunday!). are there any vr6 longblocks I should avoid? (Besides OBD 1 obviously)

    26. Member SVTDanny's Avatar
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      10-10-2011 09:37 PM #61
      You can use any, no real reason to avoid OBD1 motors either. There aren't really any differences between OBD1/OBD2 as far as the engine itself is concerned.

    27. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      10-10-2011 11:03 PM #62
      yeah but if i'm buying a longblock I might as well re-use the head and cams on the block I purchase and I prefer to stick with the obd 2 setup

    28. Member dasbeast3.0's Avatar
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      10-10-2011 11:59 PM #63
      If you are looking for 325whp, leave the motor alone. Do compression/leakdown tests, if its good, run with it. Your wasting time and $ rebuilding the motor. The vr is damn beefy right outta the box.

      Ive ran 26psi on a dead stock motor (8.5:1 comp) with 100k... 2 years beating the balls off it. Never had a problem.

      Leave the cams factory. Concentrate on the transmission, that is the weak point. Get a slightly larger hotside for whatever turbo you choose (within reason) it'll help with wheelspin and be a little easier on the trans. Something like a journal bearing t3/4 t60-1 w/ .82 hotside will fit your needs perfectly without breaking the bank. Just my 2 cents.

    29. Member tdmopar59's Avatar
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      10-11-2011 09:00 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by dasbeast3.0 View Post
      If you are looking for 325whp, leave the motor alone. Do compression/leakdown tests, if its good, run with it. Your wasting time and $ rebuilding the motor. The vr is damn beefy right outta the box.

      Ive ran 26psi on a dead stock motor (8.5:1 comp) with 100k... 2 years beating the balls off it. Never had a problem.

      Leave the cams factory. Concentrate on the transmission, that is the weak point. Get a slightly larger hotside for whatever turbo you choose (within reason) it'll help with wheelspin and be a little easier on the trans. Something like a journal bearing t3/4 t60-1 w/ .82 hotside will fit your needs perfectly without breaking the bank. Just my 2 cents.
      Thanks for the input! The total idea of my build has changed slightly as time went on so I'm looking at a close to 400 hp build now and I wanna do the rebuild as a nice winter project and it gives me plenty of confidence if I wanna do more in the future. I don't wanna do it all than have a ring or oil pump go 500 miles down the road
      Also the 60 trim does seem like the best bet for me for now
      Last edited by tdmopar59; 10-11-2011 at 09:02 AM.

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