Black Forest Industries 18 Hour Swap: MK1 VR6

[Moes's VW's]

very nice, are the stage 3 kits ready, to be ordered want to extra safe with the vrt... im really excited for this kit i think it will be a hit cause alot of people now want a mk1 vr which is a pain in the ass, untill now but when building a car i dont think money is really an issue. its all about the love!

[grippymonkey]

I need VR6 in my life...

nicely done!

[VWM4YH3M]

I need VR6 in my life...

nicely done!

Who doesn't

[TM87]

I was admiring deathhare, now eurowise and bfi

AbaT vs VR. Temptation temptation temptation.

[VWM4YH3M]

^^^^^^ il like too see

[T-Giv]

I'll donate my mk1 to the next vr6 swap!

[etta gli]

I was admiring deathhare, now eurowise and bfi

AbaT vs VR. Temptation temptation temptation.

A high compression 16v abf clone will make more power than a VR, and similar numbers to an abaT. Without a turbo. Now add a turbo.

[TM87]

A high compression 16v abf clone will make more power than a VR, and similar numbers to an abaT. Without a turbo. Now add a turbo.

I was more thinking out loud. Ditch my abaT plans, sell the stuff and jump on VR bandwagon. Temptation temptation.
Not which one is better/faster/cooler.

[grizzlyone]

A high compression 16v abf clone will makesimilar numbers to an abaT. Without a turbo. Now add a turbo.

Link to this NA ABF clone making 250+whp

[etta gli]

Link to this NA ABF clone making 250+whp

Link to the NA VR swap making 250whp without MAJOR MONEY for internals. If you want to play that game you might as well put a turbo on both.

Then watch the VR blow up


You'll make 150whp out of both. Headerback on both, decked block on the aba 16v and matched cams. Now which costs more to mod, which costs more to turbo, which weighs more, and which is a filthy pig on fuel.


This looks to be a really good setup, and definitely simplifies the swap. Combined with CE2 this would work really nicely, but I personally do not believe a VR belongs in a mk1. Now a ce2 mk2 coupe... that's a whole different story

[grizzlyone]

You might want to go back and read what part of your statement I actually quoted and was asking for proof of

[etta gli]

went on a vr tangent


u win

but turbos cost money. I haven't seen any cheap 250whp abaTs. Though I'd love to, I can't decide between abaT and a built 16v.

[Two . Slow]

how much more difficult would it be to use a ob2 vs obd1? im thining about this a lot and obviously you wouldnt use the ac and ps...what else can be taken off? im sure there is a bunch of emissions that can be deleted which id think would simplify wiring by a decent amount. also what is used for cooling? stock mk1 rad enought to keep a vr cool?

thanks and well done!

[deathhare.]

how much more difficult would it be to use a ob2 vs obd1? im thining about this a lot and obviously you wouldnt use the ac and ps...what else can be taken off? im sure there is a bunch of emissions that can be deleted which id think would simplify wiring by a decent amount. also what is used for cooling? stock mk1 rad enought to keep a vr cool?

thanks and well done!

OBD1 or 2 are about the same difficulty as far as wiring goes.
You can delete EGR, SAI, cat and even rear o2 on the obd2 with the right chip.
Deleting these things dont simplify the wiring at all. I deleted them on my swap and I actually think that the SAI pump probably wouldnt have fit anyway so it needs to go regardless probably.
Many people have used a mk1 rad although IMO, the larger the better. Im running a Corrado VR radiator with two 12" slim fans, low temp fan switch and low temp thermostat.

[Two . Slow]

OBD1 or 2 are about the same difficulty as far as wiring goes.
You can delete EGR, SAI, cat and even rear o2 on the obd2 with the right chip.
Deleting these things dont simplify the wiring at all. I deleted them on my swap and I actually think that the SAI pump probably wouldnt have fit anyway so it needs to go regardless probably.
Many people have used a mk1 rad although IMO, the larger the better. Im running a Corrado VR radiator with two 12" slim fans, low temp fan switch and low temp thermostat.

ok so deleting things is always the best but that frees up more room which is a plus. thanks for the info. my caddy is diesel so id need some sort of fuel pump i guess inline? and clean the tank..also stock mk1 brake booster? then a vr pedal cluster?

[deathhare.]

my caddy is diesel so id need some sort of fuel pump i guess inline? and clean the tank..also stock mk1 brake booster? then a vr pedal cluster?

You should mount a rabbit CIS pump inline in the stock location. Works perfect.
You cant use the VR pedal cluster. Use the stock rabbit one.

[sk8ordie]

DH did you run the dual speed fan wiring, or keep the oem rabbit fan wiring? Assuming you can delete the big under overflow fuse box if you use MKI wiring.

[bansheelos]

Like all VR's, including stock, yes the oil pan is quite low. I have talked with Mike about coming up with a shorter pan and pick up combo to offer as an option for the kit

Like the R32 pan and p/u?

[deathhare.]

DH did you run the dual speed fan wiring, or keep the oem rabbit fan wiring? Assuming you can delete the big under overflow fuse box if you use MKI wiring.

I used the rabbit wiring.

Like the R32 pan and p/u?

A little less than 13mm gained.
Not really worth the cost eh?

[UghRice]

Hmmm...you guys should use my car to show off how much power the stg3 can hold

[Two . Slow]

You should mount a rabbit CIS pump inline in the stock location. Works perfect.
You cant use the VR pedal cluster. Use the stock rabbit one.

ok thanks for the help. got some thining and searching to do now.

[vento86]

Hmmm...you guys should use my car to show off how much power the stg3 can hold

the jawny jawn? get out of here ya mk4 owner

[pete@blackforest]

These kits are now available on our webstore.
Stage 1
Stage 2
Stage 3

[daniel@blackforest]

We haven't had much time to dedicate to the VR6 Rabbit but we are determined to get it on track very soon!

Since we last posted up we have :

Installed Sparco seats and harnesses - made custom brackets
Installed Ignition/Battery Kill Switch
Finished and Painted Cage
Installed Custom Gauges
Installed Push Button Ignition
Mounted Custom Oil Cooler
Upgraded Brakes (Still waiting on new front Wilwoods)
Modified Shifter for Custom Short Shift
Raised the Shifter Box - Custom Brackets

New hub and steering wheel are on the way - as well we are going to clean the car up and apply some livery.

Here are a few shots of some of the progress

[Erthan]

Car looks good, can't wait to see the livery.

[AWopGenius]

What rad are you guys running in your setup? Mike mentioned to me that they run the stock rabbit rad but flip it 180 degrees so the inlet/outlet are on the driver side... But I have yet to see pictures of it mounted and piped in.

[iceman2.0]

I used the rabbit wiring.



A little less than 13mm gained.
Not really worth the cost eh?

1/2" is still better than nothing....
What are you doing about the pan to road issue?

[deathhare.]

What are you doing about the pan to road issue?

I live in south where the roads dont protrude upwards and ruin ****.
Never had an issue but I know you guys in the NE have it bad in places.

[vwbull23]

this is awesome
i am in the process of doing a vr6 pickup it funny i use to be a a 16v guy. but now i have 3 cars with vr in them i love my 3.6 cc and i cant wait to drive my pickup

[adam@blackforest]

What rad are you guys running in your setup? Mike mentioned to me that they run the stock rabbit rad but flip it 180 degrees so the inlet/outlet are on the driver side... But I have yet to see pictures of it mounted and piped in.

Where do you think Mike got the idea from in the first place

Yes our is using a stock MK1 rad flipped 180*. Made a simple top mount bracket and used the stock vr6 coolant hoses, slightly shortened.

[ncbrock]

you guys do the roll bars in house?

[daniel@blackforest]

you guys do the roll bars in house?

We did indeed

[JCdubber]

i have been running mine with a flipped rabbit radiator with a single aftermarket electric fan wired on its own little harness using the stock thermoswitch for around 3000 hard miles...hard because i drive the crap out of my rabbit, and its nothing but fun all day. my temp has never gone over the center mark (except when the plug wasnt on it that one time )

also, my bfi front engine mount is effortlessly handling the abuse i am throwing at it. though i just have a stock vr with a lsd, it people were still skeptical for some reason. i believed in you.

[AWopGenius]

Where do you think Mike got the idea from in the first place

Yes our is using a stock MK1 rad flipped 180*. Made a simple top mount bracket and used the stock vr6 coolant hoses, slightly shortened.

Haha, cool. Thanks.

i have been running mine with a flipped rabbit radiator with a single aftermarket electric fan wired on its own little harness using the stock thermoswitch for around 3000 hard miles...hard because i drive the crap out of my rabbit, and its nothing but fun all day. my temp has never gone over the center mark (except when the plug wasnt on it that one time )

also, my bfi front engine mount is effortlessly handling the abuse i am throwing at it. though i just have a stock vr with a lsd, it people were still skeptical for some reason. i believed in you.

[adam@blackforest]

Well its been awhile since any updates, with all the shows and summer business its been hard to put time in on the car. But that has changed.

We recently did a series of major engine work and upgrades: timing chains, guides, BFI cooling kit, BFI billet crack pipe, BFI lw flywheel and clutch kit, and a set of Cat cams.

Along with a series of smaller things including: catch can, exhaust tweeks, and fab'd up some lower rear axle tiebars/adjusters

A few pics:



It will be vinyled up for its first track weekend on Sept 17th and GMP's Fallout track day at CMP