High Mileage Phaetons

[04phaeton]

My extended warranty ended about 20,000km ago and I'm at just under 210,000 km (owned it since 70,000km).

The biggest fear people who own Phaetons have had is what the cost would be out of warranty.

The only problems I've had out of warranty so far is:

- rear left wheel bearing replaced $300 + installation
- one of the power steering pipes in front of front driver side wheel corroded and was leaking power steering fluid - $300 for the part + installation

That's it.

I'm just about to do my 2nd timing belt change (+water pump, thermostat, etc).

I'd like to run this car as long as I can (if I can get between 300-400k, I'd be very happy)

Who else has this much or more mileage and what have the repairs been like out of warranty?

[JA Dub]

I have 152K and most the small plastic parts are breaking. Example- glove box opener button broke last week ($325 ordered part not in), headlight washer door cracked and stays out, door panel cracked at bottom on passenger front door, fuse box cover pulling away from plastic base, steering wheel makes a few loud clunks sometime when I turn the car off and the steering wheel is going in and up, exterior paint is changing colors in a few places, trim at door bottoms is rusting AGAIN, trip meter resets on its own sometimes (the trip meter in the Trip Data screen). One went cover does not close, will repair just haven't had time.

repairs out of warranty:
Window regulator $875 at independent shop.
1 fuel pump replace (the car has 2) $1,250.
A/C service $225, stealership added freon and said "normal use" although I paid for A/C maintenance and oil change 2 month earlier. I call this repair because I paid for normal maintenance 2 months earlier on A/C and it wasn't cooling so had to bring back to stealership and pay $225.
Steering column short that stranded me with the dreaded red "Steering Fault Workshop!" $80 rewire by independent shop.

Runs great, I'll be replacing the front wheel bearings next week. Will post, saw a post of a picture of one but no details on replacement.

The only thing that has disappointed me on the car is the heater or should I say the lack of a heater. Leather is in great shape, dash in great shape. All the plastic parts that are breaking are 7 years old. In dog years that is 49years.

[rushcoil]

I have 88K... guess that is high mileage... only worried about very, very rare occurrence of slippage from 1st to 2nd... I think it may be computer hiccup and not dreaded transmission failure... Also replaced one mirror lamp... will replace the front bumper due to all of the stress fractures soon. Some interior pieces could use a change. The driver leather seat does show wear. None of the other seats show wear. The sunroof button, you must pull it down and turn it (this seems pretty common). The headlight blaster covers stay out sometimes. This is all really common stuff. One strut apparently failed (from previous owner) but I have no idea if the others were replaced (as they were supposed to be) because she had it done at an Audi dealer...

Electronic demons, but I've made peace with them. It is a quirky car, electronics wise. It doesn't bother me. Turn it off and on, and most of that goes away.

Otherwise, a dream. Fun taking out little roadsters in a car that weighs 2 times as much as them.

[04phaeton]

I just hit 220,000 km.

Is there no one else in this forum with high mileage on their Phaeton?

I'd really like to know if anyone else has this much or much more mileage to know what to expect.

I'm about to do another set of front brake pads and the rear sway bar is corroded so I'm replacing that as well. Also, a reverse switch just went (lights don't come on when backing up).

[planeadam]

I've recently hit 115,000 miles, and these are the repairs that come to mind (car purchased at 60k):

Every once in a while the right headlight would go out (replaced wires & housing)
Left rear wheel bearing
Right rear wheel bearing about 5k miles later
Glovebox pushbutton rubber coating came off, purely cosmetic
One of the rear cupholders broke (rear bench, not bucket seats)
Ride height computer failed
Rear height sensor failed (seems due to water/dirt ruining it)

[thePiper]

Hi,

I sold my first Phaeton, a 3.0 diesel from March 2005 with 225.000 kms on the clock 4 months ago (bought with 105.000 kms).

I had to replace the xenons, brake discs + pads, tyres and needed a new left hand side battery (of course). Nothing else had gone wrong on the car. The xenons I blamed on them being more or less first generation xenon technology. Everything worked, nothing was rattly. Only the leather from the driver's seat was getting a bit worn (light grey coming through).

Currently my 2009 V8 LWB 4-seater (bought with 25.000 kms) has 63.000 kms on it (I drive approx. 50.000 kms/ year). The 60.000 km service meant new filters, topping up a bit of oil and window fluid. Everything else is perfect. Yet I feel the overal quality is not as good as in the old car. Strange, but I feel the are a bit more small noises when hitting a small imperfection in the road.

Anyway, all was well with the high mileage vehicle.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Kenny G]

I have 125000miles which is over 200K and so far most of the issues have been minor. I did a timing belt and a window regulator. I am currently waiting for variable intake actuator arms which failed but she still runs ok just a little slow off the line. Breaks too, I am cheap and don't have a lot of disposable cash so I didn't replace the rotors and so far alls well I guess next time I will have to. I had a mystery A/C fault which went away so wondering if that one decides to come back to life, it was during a heat wave and a couple of instances after a stop and restart the A/C wouldn't come out of the vents but I could feel a little in the back seat? Its been months now since the last incedent!

Ken

[Fratrick]

Wow, didn't realize mileage was so universally low for everyone. I have 124k coming up on 125 but I have been using it as a daily driver the past 9 months. I have recently bought another car for a daily driver,so I'll only be driving the Phaeton on the weekends now. Looks like I'm in 3rd place on mileage!

[FootSore]

121,000 miles which is 193,000 km. All following figures in miles

Tyres, tyres, tyres.

Front disks and pads replaced at 60,000 and 120,000.
Bushes on track rod thing replaced at 50,000.

Tyre Pressure monitoring system replaced at least three times but now works a dream.
Boot wiring replaced once at 50,000
Hydraulic/Electric control unit for boot replaced at 118,000
All valves replaced at 40,000
All doors replaced at 118,000
Clip on central storage bin broke and replaced at 40,000 miles
Cupholder broke (pin retainer plastic) so now has only two cup supports
Plastic covers for bit on seatbelts where stitched at buckle all fell off for driver.

Leather wheel now looking worn, drivers seat noticeably worn.

Other than that nothing wrong with it

It has never let me down, never hinted at letting me down, is a dream to drive, is awesome in the snow. Is awesome at lugging vast amounts of stuff. I still really love it.

Dave

[OliverG]

Hi Dave
Pls can you explain why all doors were replaced at 118,000
cheers
Oliver

[solar2004]

I have a 2004 W12 in UK, has now 166,000 miles, or 266,000km. It is great, but have had some problems. I got the car about 18 months ago, and it has always had the check engine light on. The alternator failed, which is an engine out job. This happened within 5 months of purchase, so I took it back to the non-franchise Bentley specialist that sold it, and he paid half the repair. I got the car at about 120,000 miles, with history, which means I could see the previous owner had a lot of things done to the car, including a new gearbox just before he sold it, which was very expensive. I think I can see some comments from him on this forum, moaning about it, and complaining that the car must have been worth more in parts than what he was offered for it... Anyway, I took the car to a VW main agent for a service last October, and they said it needed another gearbox. Before I could scream at them, they said that they had ordered it and that it would be covered by product warranty as the car had had one recently... Was very pleased with that. It goes back for another service soon, and I know it will need a left hand water pump, brakes and various other bits and pieces. I expect the whole bill for the October November service will have been about $25,000 of which I was charged about $4,000. I will always go to the franchise dealer from now on. Check engine light still on despite changing the sensors, maybe is a catalyst... but I don't care about that as the exhaust gas is clean.

[calmone]

app. 90,000 miles, besides the struts (3/4 paid by vw) a minor oil leak at the pan gasket; rear bearings, some control arm bushings, a window regulator, a cracked wheel (found a used oe on car-parts.com 1/4 cost of new), a door latch and a starter (that was a problem getting to on a w12 and a tad costly). some unrepaired iems i live with include the tpms (or the tire premenstral syndome as i call it), a headlight washer door that likes to stay open, the keyless entry failed, and a check engine light. the cel was diagnosed as an o2 sensor, but the car runs great. my real problem with the cel will be when emissions inspection comes, as it will not pass with the cel on. i have eased up on driving her, using my 05 a8 instead (is that "out of the frying pan into the fire"?) and as i have disabled plates and if you drive less than 5000 miles a year in md one is exempt from emission inspection there is hope i can get by without an expensive 02 sensor replacement.

[Paximus]

calmone: TPMS = tire premenstral syndome

I love that! How true. Mine must be too old for that now, it's working fine.

solar2004: my real problem with the cel will be when emissions inspection comes, as it will not pass with the cel on

I believe sometimes you can clear it using VCDS immediately before the test (in the parking lot?) and it might stay off for the duration...

Chris

[WillemBal]

I believe sometimes you can clear it using VCDS immediately before the test (in the parking lot?) and it might stay off for the duration...

All 8 readiness bits then will be reset to 1 and a new procedure to set the readiness will be started automatically. The CEL will probably stay off for some time, but will light up again when not all conditions for readiness are met.

Willem

[FootSore]

Hi Dave
Pls can you explain why all doors were replaced at 118,000
cheers
Oliver

It's the corrosion thing. Steel door frames and aluminium skins. There is lock stock and barrel on another thread. All covered by corrosion/pain warranty.

If we are including broken wheels - I have Omanyts and must have broken at least 4 but don't blame the car for it. The roads I use are shocking andthe wheels don't have enough rubber. At 60,000 miles I broke one and needed four tyres. I was going to change to 18s but was also thinking about exchanging. Wish I had got four new 18s as have broke at least two more since then.

Dave

[NDJoe]

I've recently hit 115,000 miles, and these are the repairs that come to mind (car purchased at 60k):

Every once in a while the right headlight would go out (replaced wires & housing)
Left rear wheel bearing
Right rear wheel bearing about 5k miles later
Glovebox pushbutton rubber coating came off, purely cosmetic
One of the rear cupholders broke (rear bench, not bucket seats)
Ride height computer failed
Rear height sensor failed (seems due to water/dirt ruining it)

How much did these little items cost? I'm about to buy an '04 and I'm getting cold feet. I don't want to be paying $1000+ a month for little, and BIG, service items!

Any advice or commenst are welcome from anybody.

Joe

[Tully Lee]

Nothing cheap $ wise when it comes to repairs. So far a pretty solid car considering it's age . A warranty is a must in my book.

[invisiblewave]

I agree, there's no such thing as a cheap repair on a Phaeton, even the "simple" things tend to be pricey. That's not too dissimilar to most modern cars though, especially at the luxury end of the market.

For an '04, the first thing I'd do would be to look very carefully at the service records and see what's already been done. Check when the following items were changed or fixed: batteries, TPMS sensors, TPMS controller (if it wasn't changed, it probably will be at some point), the wires under the retractable steering column (won't be a problem if the car was run without using the steering retraction function), a/c flap motor, front window motors, rear speaker wires, headlight bulbs. There are probably other "typical" failure points that I can't remember. For consumable items, the brakes are relatively expensive if you have them done by a dealer, so check when the front rotors (in particular) were last changed. The other potentially expensive area to look at is the suspension bushings, considered a consumable but very pricey to change.

[Paximus]

Michael (PanEuropean) once said that maintenance costs were proportional to the vehicle's list price, or something to that effect.

This does seem to apply to the £75,000 Phaeton. But on the other hand, it does feature in the lists of most reliable cars and has high customer satisfaction.

I don't know whether a similar high-spec S-Class or A8 would be much different. And the almost identical Bentley Continental probably has double the maintenance charges.

Chris

[stefanuk]

To quote May issue of Top Gear magazine for new cars in the UK....."the best used car on the market"

Stefan

[Bladerunnertm]

4 sets of tyres (£900 for 4 x 19" Pirelli Zero Ross XL)
2 complete brakes sets (discs and pads) since new.
Replaced Bi-Xenons at 3 years, now due again.
2 Refurbed buckelled (pothole) and cracked Omanyt 19" Alloys, 4 reground and polished out kurb damage.
1 x Front nearside wishbone. (big pothole).
Replaced manifold runners (expensive due to labour time 7 hours).
Replaced driver-side black gloss pillar, due to stone chip.
Replaced CD multichanger.
3 doors replaced due to corrosion near bottom, where water collects. A new trim design helps to reduce this I'm told.
New diesel injectors (misfuelling error )

I'd have to go through my service receipts to get a full list.

Despite the troubles, I'm happy with my Phaeton. Its doing ok considering my mileage.

[stefanuk]

my mileage currently stands at 110,000 for 6 year old car.
I didn't buy new so can't say what previous owner had done except to say before i brought it i checked with VW who advised me that no warranty work had been done except for all 4 doors for corrosion and service receipts show no replacement parts other than normal wear and tear items.

Since i've had the car and covered 40,000 miles in 2 years it's had rear doors done again for corrosion.
New left hand side battery.
one full set of brake pads and discs
one set of tyres and due another set in about 3,000 miles. I use Khumo Ecsta, £600.00 for 4.
one service.
wheel alignment and freeing of seized tie rod end.
Replacement of lower door trim due to corrosion.
Omanyt wheels (4)refurbed due to curb damage and brake dust damage.

Not had to top up oil between services.
Sails through MOT.

Overall considering the mileage and age of the car i think this more than acceptable.

Stefan

[rjm0831]

I thought it would be helpful to contribute information to this thread regarding a high mileage 2004 Phaeton I recently happened upon that was for sale here in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis-St. Paul, Minnesota. This car was in very good running condition and has been very well maintained. I was able to get maintenance records for it covering well over 100,000 intermittent miles of use. The car has 170,000 miles on its odometer.

As a testament to the resilience, stamina, and longevity inherent in this marvel of engineering, no major malfunctions have ever been reported for this car. A timing chain was recently and routinely replaced along with the water pump (just because it made sense to do so during the timing chain replacement process). This was the second timing chain with the first having been changed out at around 90,000. Here, too, the chain was replaced proactively.

Normal wear and tear items like tires, pads and rotors have been routinely replaced. Mobil 1Ô oil changes have occurred every 10,000 miles without fail. I noted a window regulator replacement, but just the one over all those many miles. The car was purchased and used by a realtor who averaged 15,000 -20,000 miles annually over 8 years of ownership.

A surprising fact about this car is that the lion’s share of the repairs and regular maintenance has been handled by . . . a local area Buick GMC dealer! The owner’s son is the Buick store’s service manager who has lovingly cared for his dad’s car since it was purchased at 15,000 miles. Only on rare occasions did he ever use a nearby VW dealer and only to help diagnose issues relating to sensors and other more involved mechanical and electronic problems. In computing the average annual expense to maintain the car, I came up with $2,000 US or ten cents a mile. Realistically, I could double that number to account for labor (which to the owner was essentially free), and I still would not feel bad that it cost twenty cents a mile to maintain a Phaeton.

The interior is surprisingly clean and free of wear. A very small strip of piping on the driver’s seatback is frayed from years of egress. Beyond this, there are no cracks or other damage to the seats front or rear. Interior trim pieces, knobs, and buttons all appear to be in very good working order. The cup holder covers are missing. That’s really the extent of interior flaws.

The exterior, while not pristine, is actually in darn nice shape with no accidents ever reported. The paint shows no signs of peeling or blistering anywhere. Only a handful of minor scratches are apparent. No door dings either. Some flaking is occurring on the bumper panel below the headlight lens on the passenger side. And there’s one particularly bad set of scratches on the hood. I’m not sure how those could easily be made to disappear without possibly repainting the entire hood. There’s bowing in a couple of the lower exterior plastic panels on the doors which I hopefully can get replaced or do it myself.

The standard Phaeton wheels are in decent shape with minor scrapes along the outer edges likely from contact with curbs. Again, considering the age of this vehicle and its associated miles, overall it is in truly great shape.

Having been a member of this highly informative and distinctly passionate forum since September of 2009, I’ve purposely stayed in the background because I was missing that one true element of club membership that many of you have; ownership of a Phaeton. As of this week however, my status has changed. I am now the proud owner of a 2004 Coucou Gray and Anthracite Phaeton. It was nigh unto impossible for me to resist this well cared for machine despite the high miles. When it was all said and done, I paid $6,700 US (plus sales tax) for this raving beauty of an automobile.

While owning a Phaeton won’t automatically erase the fact that I am still a novitiate, real knowledge and know-how will now come ever more quickly. I will say, though, that contributors to this forum have helped open my eyes over the years to the incomparable nature of the Phaeton with nearly every post. And, since I am aspiring to craft a book about the Phaeton (which I announced in the forum late last year to be titled, “Masterstroke: The Fall and Rise of the Volkswagen Phaeton”), I will feel much more the true artist who has a live model from which to paint a glowing portrait of the most timeless and uniquely hand-crafted car ever built.

[Jxander]

A timing chain was recently and routinely replaced along with the water pump (just because it made sense to do so during the timing chain replacement process). This was the second timing chain with the first having been changed out at around 90,000. Here, too, the chain was replaced proactively.

rjm:

First of all congrats on your new ride. Phaetons do seem to age very gracefully and for $6700 what have you got to lose? A well-maintained Phaeton, like yours, is a much better bet than a poorly maintained one with lower miles.

In the future you may want to include in your signature or profile, the year and engine type for your Phaeton. I was a bit confused by your comments about routinely replacing the timing chain. The W12 has a timing chain which is normally not replaced and lasts the life of the engine. However, the V8 engine does have a timing belt with a recommended replacement interval of 80k miles. I surmise you have a V8 with a belt and not a chain.

Happy motoring.

I can't qualify for any high mileage awards, as I only have 80k miles on mine. I bought it as a CPO, 5 plus years ago and it had all service records. It has been pretty trouble-free but has had 2 costly repairs. The most significant was a transmission replacement and the other was significant work on HVAC flap motors and controller. All of this was done under the CPO warranty. My out of pocket costs in the 5 years has been scheduled maintenance, one set of tires, 2 batteries, and one cooling hose. I do not have any current or impending issues with the car other than an initial squacking noise from the left front suspension that goes away after driving a mile. It is nonexistent if I drive the car daily and is worse if it sits a bit between outings. One day I'll try figuring out exactly which component(s) is(are) a problem but I'm not overly concerned at this point.

Jim X

[rjm0831]

Jim:

Thanks so much for your detailed reply. And thank you for clearing the air regarding the timing belt vs. timing chain. I do, indeed, have a V8. I'm happy to hear that your two major repairs were covered by the CPO warranty. I've heard more than once via this forum that a tranny can run as high as $10K.

Here's hoping that you can put another 80K miles on yours with no major issues. For my part, I plan to make the Phaeton my daily driver. I drive a lowly 20 miles per day so I'll keep it moving but the miles will pile up slowly. I'm in sales but I have access to company vehicles for any extended trips.

I'll update my profile to include the "new" addition. Thanks again for your kind words!

Ron

[PhaetonV10-EST]

I have 210k km on the clock and last 70k of it is mine.
So far i have repaired the transmission, webasto, steering column wires, changed the battery x2, wheel bearing x2.
Now its time for front axle - going to change all control arms etc togethern for a better result.
And of course oil and filter changes + new set of winter and summer tyres.
Some electrical issues come with every Phaeton i guess.

Silver

[lauchiemb]

I'd just thought that I would add to this discussion from the UK.
We have a Phaeton that we have owned for 4 years. We bought it at 49K miles and it is now on 135K miles.
We get it serviced at an independent VW local garage that has a 'trained' Phaeton technician. We get it serviced there when the light comes on on the dashboard and MOT'd there every year.
Other than tyres and brake pads (less often than previous vehicle - Jaguar X-Type) the following things have gone wrong/been repaired :

Lightbulbs x3 in front headlights. Priced at £1.90 each.
Screen wash jets needed cleaned out due to being blocked. £20 labour.
Cable from rear lights to main body of the car became loose. Free repair.
The small cubby for the rear passengers based in the front arm rest broke off when removing luggage.

When we bought it I found out that the motors that close the front vents were faulty and all six (!) needed replaced. I haven't bothered with that. £690 quoted by main VW dealer.

When we get the car vacuumed inside it looks like new. No wearing visible on the seats, carpets or dashboard. We have two kids (4+2) in the back throwing food, drinks, milkshakes etc too!

Externally one of the chrome strips have come off from passengers door handle and there is some bubbling of paint work.

This car has behaved impeccably over the past four years. Brilliant.

[Paximus]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum. Thanks for the contribution report on real-world use of the car!

It seems unlikely that all six vent motors would fail, so perhaps there is another explanation should you ever feel it needs investigation.

Chris

[awolf]

Hi all. Coming up on 100,000 miles on a 2004 V8. Car still drives like a dream... last time at 80,000 dealer in Spring Valley NY recommended replacement of timing belt. As I recall if was mostly labor, $1,500. I said pass. They showed me a VW AMerica service matrix with an X on this at 80,000. Any experience or comments about this?

Also CD changer identifies all CDs as defective and will not eject them. Any thoughts?

Lastly sometimes seat control will now allow seats to go in reverse or forward. ???

Thanks

[awolf]

Hi Jim. You wrote: the V8 engine does have a timing belt with a recommended replacement interval of 80k miles. I surmise you have a V8 with a belt and not a chain.

Can I assume that this is recommended as the rubber degrades? Should it cost four figures to replace?

Thanks

[PowerDubs]

Using aftermarket parts, you can do the timing belt for <$500 if you are capable of doing the work yourself.

I'd expect at least $1000 from a shop. It isn't a particularly quick or mindless job.

[Jxander]

Hi Jim. You wrote: the V8 engine does have a timing belt with a recommended replacement interval of 80k miles. I surmise you have a V8 with a belt and not a chain.

Can I assume that this is recommended as the rubber degrades? Should it cost four figures to replace?

Thanks

Awolf:

Yes - i have a V8 Phaeton and I also have a Touareg with essentially the same V8. Josh already has let you know about the DIY option, approximately $500 on parts and maybe a day of labor. However, DIY on this project may be out of your comfort zone and if so, you'll have to decide who you want to do it. I had my timing belt service on my Phaeton done by my local VW dealer during replacement of my transmission under warranty. I think I paid about $1700. However, I recently had the timing belt service done on my Touareg. In the process I got a quote for $2150 from the same VW dealer. I thought that was a bit excessive and knew I could get a timing belt kit including more components than VW normally replaces for about $450. So I approached a local independent mechanic that came highly recommended by several reliable sources about his willingness to do the job on a labor only basis. His labor rate is $75/hr. and he came back with a quote of $525. So for less than $1000 I had a new belt, water pump, thermostat, G12 coolant, idlers etc. So the point is that there are options depending on what you are comfortable with.

Good luck in your decision.

Jim X

[awolf]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.