Water/Meth injection

[TdiGoesWalker]

whats the word on injection? is there anyone whose done it and is there any input? What system did you use?

[Badvibe]

I've heard good things about the AEM water meth system. I'm a little cautious to put the system in my car though until I find out more. I saw a youtube where somebody put the system in their GTI (I think it was). The first time he installed it before the throttle body, and it messed some things up. He didn't go into details on what was messed up, but I wouldn't take chances until I get some more facts...

[chris@revotechnik]

The systems work best before the throttle body so the GTI owner did it best. You get better results the further you install it before the throttle (within reason) because it mixes better with the air.

The issue people have had with methanol and the throttles is sort of linked but not 100% as people have had issues with the throttles on them without ever running methanol.

Methanol is a fuel so you get both a cooling affect and more fuel in. Depending on the application more fuel can be a good think, 2.0t "fsi" being a great example. On my A3 I am out of fuel so I actually use the methanol as supplemental fuel. Others just use it to keep the demand down on their stock fuel system with the added bonus of cooling and higher octane.

Many people use this on diesels, I have no personal experience with it in a diesel application but have been thinking about trying it.

[shirtsTDI]

The systems work best before the throttle body so the GTI owner did it best. You get better results the further you install it before the throttle (within reason) because it mixes better with the air.

The issue people have had with methanol and the throttles is sort of linked but not 100% as people have had issues with the throttles on them without ever running methanol.

Methanol is a fuel so you get both a cooling affect and more fuel in. Depending on the application more fuel can be a good think, 2.0t "fsi" being a great example. On my A3 I am out of fuel so I actually use the methanol as supplemental fuel. Others just use it to keep the demand down on their stock fuel system with the added bonus of cooling and higher octane.

Many people use this on diesels, I have no personal experience with it in a diesel application but have been thinking about trying it.

I keep going back and forth about this. I am now in the investigation stage of my performance mods for next year. Next summer I will be getting a Malone Stage 2 tune. I am also thinking about doing injection. They dont post actual dyno graphs, but Snow Performance has a write-up in Diesel World Mag that quotes some nice gains on a '09 TDI Jetta - http://www.snowperformance.net/produ...cle-pdf-95.pdf

It's a conundrum

[ArtieMacKinlay]

What about propane injection? I heard about it once, and saw a dude with an install on his Golf but haven't heard anything since.

[shirtsTDI]

What about propane injection? I heard about it once, and saw a dude with an install on his Golf but haven't heard anything since.

Yeah, that's the other one, though I was looking in to CNG instead of Propane. I have the time for the investigation. The only thing that is certain right now is the Malone Stage 2.

[ArtieMacKinlay]

Yeah, that's the other one, though I was looking in to CNG instead of Propane. I have the time for the investigation. The only thing that is certain right now is the Malone Stage 2.

The chip really is fantastic, I've got Unitronic Stage 1, which I understand is equivalent to what other companies are offering as a stage 1 tune. I'd love to see some more high power tunes after my warranty runs out and the DPF gets the boot.

[LieutenantShinySides]

I have the water/meth kit from Snow Performance. I haven't had a chance to install it yet but I'll report back my experiance when I do. Hopefully this coming weekend.

[shirtsTDI]

I have the water/meth kit from Snow Performance. I haven't had a chance to install it yet but I'll report back my experiance when I do. Hopefully this coming weekend.

Looking forward to your review.

Andy from Snow Performance says that this should not affect a tune, and the 2.5 gallon tank should last for about 2-3 tanks of diesel. I do plan to do dynos before and after all my mods next year. Where are you planning to install the tank? I was thinking in the little storage areas on the side, but I don't know the volume of those areas.

[LEBlackRob]

Thanks for sharing the article. I will be watching this thread now. I was thinking about doing this but now that I have seen this I will have to add it into list of parts to get. PDE had a part that will be coming out soon that has pre-taped bungs for water meth so I will probably use that i can't find the link right now but that is what I will use if I go this route.

[LieutenantShinySides]

Looking forward to your review.

Andy from Snow Performance says that this should not affect a tune, and the 2.5 gallon tank should last for about 2-3 tanks of diesel. I do plan to do dynos before and after all my mods next year. Where are you planning to install the tank? I was thinking in the little storage areas on the side, but I don't know the volume of those areas.

I actually had plans to store it where you mentioned, then I opened the box and saw the size of the reservoir.

As soon as I can get my garage back and can actually get a car in it (currently a staging point for all of the house remodeling crap), I'll get started on the install.

[Finmad]

Just got my Water/meth kit from snow. Planning on install this weekend.


I have a malone Stage2 and DSG tune. It made a huge difference. I have a strip near the house and $10 thursday test and tune. stock the car did 17 sec flat, after the malone tdi and dsg tune it does 15.5. Can't wait to see what the snow kit does.

[Finmad]

Installed the Snow kit. I am not over the moon. the kit is good and the quality excellent, I just was not aware of how much Water/meth this thing uses... I go through a gallon every 100 miles. I drive 130 miles a day. So I am constantly filling up. also the engine does not like the meth untill it is really hot and running for 10 minutes or better. I will go to a dyno and try to tune it by turning down the pump volume some and see if I lose any power. I do feel the additional hp at higher speed 65+. That is nice for passing on the highway.

All in All I would not buy the kit again. it just uses too much fluid. and the +hp is at a speed too high for US roads.

[shirtsTDI]

Installed the Snow kit. I am not over the moon. the kit is good and the quality excellent, I just was not aware of how much Water/meth this thing uses... I go through a gallon every 100 miles. I drive 130 miles a day. So I am constantly filling up. also the engine does not like the meth untill it is really hot and running for 10 minutes or better. I will go to a dyno and try to tune it by turning down the pump volume some and see if I lose any power. I do feel the additional hp at higher speed 65+. That is nice for passing on the highway.

All in All I would not buy the kit again. it just uses too much fluid. and the +hp is at a speed too high for US roads.

Which kit did you get? Andy from Snow said that on our cars, the 2.5 gallon reservoir should last 2-3 tanks of diesel. If you have the MPG Max kit, have you been keeping it on the Power Mode the whole time? I was actually looking at running it through the wiper fluid tank, on the 20 Below fluid. I will be very interested in seeing what your dyno numbers come out to, especially since I will also be getting the Malone Stage 2 and DSG tunes.

Thanks for the info.

[chris@revotechnik]

Installed the Snow kit. I am not over the moon. the kit is good and the quality excellent, I just was not aware of how much Water/meth this thing uses... I go through a gallon every 100 miles. I drive 130 miles a day. So I am constantly filling up. also the engine does not like the meth untill it is really hot and running for 10 minutes or better. I will go to a dyno and try to tune it by turning down the pump volume some and see if I lose any power. I do feel the additional hp at higher speed 65+. That is nice for passing on the highway.

All in All I would not buy the kit again. it just uses too much fluid. and the +hp is at a speed too high for US roads.

that is way way way too much methanol.

I used it as supplemental fuel since there were no readily available larger injectors at the time inn my A3 also so I could run 93 on and still do 30+psi

I had a leak in my tank and I was still using only about a gallon a month.

Make sure the nozzle is not lower then the source if you don't have a solenoid. If the nozzle is too low you'll have the mixture pouring into your intercooler pipes all the time, which could explain why it doesn't run well cold if its just sucking up pooled up methanol out of the piping. I know of a few people who did this on 2.0ts and they didn't realize until their car wouldn't start since they had gallons of fluid in their piping choking the engine off from air.

[1972SS454]

I just found this thread, since i don't have a JSW. Mine is 09 Jetta TDI Sedan. I installed coolingmist's progressive system.


Here is my setup I just finished a couple weeks ago. Nozzle, solenoid, lines, and filter are all hidden. I countersunk all the machine screws in the trunk panel, and am going to glue subwoofer box carpet sheeting on it so it is hidden even more. Sorry if the pics are huge.

[1972SS454]

Some more info on the above setup:

Stage 2 Malone tune
PDE Downpipe w/ LP EGR Delete
PDE Exhaust
PDE HP EGR Delete
AFE Pro-Dry S filter setup

Water/Methanol injection setup:
Coolingmist Progressive CMGS gauge mount controller w/failsafe (in Newsouth Performance pod)
1 gal trunk mount tank
pump set at 200psi
solenoid installed instead of checkvalve
CM5 nozzle (approx 6gph @200psi) mounted in stock IC plastic outlet pipe (before IAT sensor)

With my setup i have been setting minimum flow (25%) at 8-10psi and max (100%) at 18-20psi with some pretty impressive results (at least on the butt dyno that is..lol)

I am looking to get dyno'd again very soon as well.

Finmad,

Please give us the details of which system you have installed and how it is set up. It does sound like you are injecting too much. Do you have a progressive controller?

[Finmad]

that is way way way too much methanol.

I used it as supplemental fuel since there were no readily available larger injectors at the time inn my A3 also so I could run 93 on and still do 30+psi

I had a leak in my tank and I was still using only about a gallon a month.

Make sure the nozzle is not lower then the source if you don't have a solenoid. If the nozzle is too low you'll have the mixture pouring into your intercooler pipes all the time, which could explain why it doesn't run well cold if its just sucking up pooled up methanol out of the piping. I know of a few people who did this on 2.0ts and they didn't realize until their car wouldn't start since they had gallons of fluid in their piping choking the engine off from air.

The setup is the SNOW performance MPG/MAX and is as follows. used the washer tank with a bung tapped in. The lines run across the bottom of the radiator, through the check valve, to the other side where I mounted the pump on the Deisle Geek Panzer plate vertical bracket. out of the pump the line runs back across the bottom of the radiator to a "T". The line splits and one goes to the MPG nozzle #1 and the second line goes to the selenoid then to the max #3 nozzle. I have the contorler set to 10psi for the mpg start and 20 psi for MPG 100%. 16psi for the Max start.

I guess the nozzles are slightly lower than the source but the fluid needs to run across the car oneway, though a check valve, through the pump then back across half the car to the nozzle. Will the pump allow fluid though when it is not running? It does have a selonoid but only after the "T" for the Max nozzle activation.

My nozzles are exactly where snow put theres on the 2009 tdi.

How can I check to see if it is "pooring" too much fluid?

What if I put a loop between the pump and tank, would that be a good idea?

[1972SS454]

Finmad,

That sounds like it is installed correctly. The check valve should prevent flow when the pump is off (Unless it is stuck open) What size nozzles are you running? and which size nozzle do you have coming off the solenoid?

[chris@revotechnik]

Finmad,

That sounds like it is installed correctly. The check valve should prevent flow when the pump is off (Unless it is stuck open) What size nozzles are you running? and which size nozzle do you have coming off the solenoid?

The check valve is to prevent boost from blowing back through the pump not to prevent fluid from flowing out of it.. if it prevented fluid from flowing out then it wouldn't work . Unless it is a pressure relief type check valve, my snow system did not come with a check valve so I"m not sure.

Fluid will follow gravity, and once it is flowing it can continue to siphon itself right out if the conditions are right. If hte nozzle is below any part of the system it will drain itself.

A loop might work but the loop would have to be higher then the nozzle.

[1972SS454]

The check valve is to prevent boost from blowing back through the pump not to prevent fluid from flowing out of it.. if it prevented fluid from flowing out then it wouldn't work . Unless it is a pressure relief type check valve, my snow system did not come with a check valve so I"m not sure.

Fluid will follow gravity, and once it is flowing it can continue to siphon itself right out if the conditions are right. If hte nozzle is below any part of the system it will drain itself.

A loop might work but the loop would have to be higher then the nozzle.

LOL...ok. yes it does that. It also performs the second function that i described above since it has a spring inside which requires 22psi of differential pressure accross the valve to allow flow thru.