Installed BFI Stage 2 Chip, ran great for 4 days, now idle problems & rev hang

[Hurt]

it looks like i am going to try one more chip from BFI/C2...revision D (#4)...they are going to send it in the mail soon i hope.

Jeez. 4 different revisions? How many are people going to deal with? I returned my C2 software in less than a month after buying it and dealing with the problems associated with it. What's the difference in HP between a C2 chip and a TT? Maybe 5BHP? If that? To me, I always go with TT, Neuspeed, BahnBrenner, GIAC as they've been around for a long while.. I've run a TT chip on my old Race spec Jetta coupe burned for the 298* Cam. C2 told me that they'd send me one tailored to that. I got a generic stage 2 272* cam profile.. The TT chip performed better on the dyno, too, because the C2 chip only revved to 7k. TT revved to 8k (custom burnt). I put down 160 WHP in that car, and maybe even could have had 180 if I MS'd it. I might buy it back from who I sold it to, for less than I sold it to him for, and it's only been on the track in his hands all of once. <3 My Coupe.

[The Big V]

you are right on some points...but its a lot smoother/better map and now that i've had some of the potential of the c2 chip i am trying to get my money's worth....if this 4th revision (basically deleting the chip holder and putting chip in like the oem chip) doesn't work then i am getting a refund. i appreciate the company trying to work with us and respecting our voices....its a combined effort between business and consumer....and its more than a lot of crap aftermarket companies will do these days...the line of communication has been pretty great with BFI...if the chip doesnt work this next time around at least we can all say we tried....i have a backup solution to verify and i will discuss after testing this final revision.

how do you know Techtonics chip wasn't tuned to a lower cam setup and it was just the higher revving that brought out more power? where are your dyno plots for comparison?? Techtonics is a fabulous company and i have gotten many many great parts from them. i am just curious for more data/info.

Jeez. 4 different revisions? How many are people going to deal with? I returned my C2 software in less than a month after buying it and dealing with the problems associated with it. What's the difference in HP between a C2 chip and a TT? Maybe 5BHP? If that? To me, I always go with TT, Neuspeed, BahnBrenner, GIAC as they've been around for a long while.. I've run a TT chip on my old Race spec Jetta coupe burned for the 298* Cam. C2 told me that they'd send me one tailored to that. I got a generic stage 2 272* cam profile.. The TT chip performed better on the dyno, too, because the C2 chip only revved to 7k. TT revved to 8k (custom burnt). I put down 160 WHP in that car, and maybe even could have had 180 if I MS'd it. I might buy it back from who I sold it to, for less than I sold it to him for, and it's only been on the track in his hands all of once. <3 My Coupe.

[Hurt]

you are right on some points...but its a lot smoother/better map and now that i've had some of the potential of the c2 chip i am trying to get my money's worth....if this 4th revision (basically deleting the chip holder and putting chip in like the oem chip) doesn't work then i am getting a refund. i appreciate the company trying to work with us and respecting our voices....its a combined effort between business and consumer....and its more than a lot of crap aftermarket companies will do these days...the line of communication has been pretty great with BFI...if the chip doesnt work this next time around at least we can all say we tried....i have a backup solution to verify and i will discuss after testing this final revision.

how do you know Techtonics chip wasn't tuned to a lower cam setup and it was just the higher revving that brought out more power? where are your dyno plots for comparison?? Techtonics is a fabulous company and i have gotten many many great parts from them. i am just curious for more data/info.

I'm positive the TT chip was custom made, and that it made more HP on the dyno than the c2 chip. I made 159.9 WHP on a dyno with my TT chip. I was excited when I heard about the whole c2 chip being so good, and thought I'd make even more power. I was wrong. With the c2 chip I only made about 155, I believe, and it ran like absolute crap. Stalling, bucking, rev hang.. TT has been around for so long, I tend to believe they're a good company. They do test their products multiple times before releasing them. I've NEVER had a problem with ANY TT product. *except for one that was my fault*.

[The Big V]

I'm positive the TT chip was custom made, and that it made more HP on the dyno than the c2 chip. I made 159.9 WHP on a dyno with my TT chip. I was excited when I heard about the whole c2 chip being so good, and thought I'd make even more power. I was wrong. With the c2 chip I only made about 155, I believe, and it ran like absolute crap. Stalling, bucking, rev hang.. TT has been around for so long, I tend to believe they're a good company. They do test their products multiple times before releasing them. I've NEVER had a problem with ANY TT product. *except for one that was my fault*.

i totally agree about TT...they are awesome...and i wasn't implying they werent. just was curious to see if you made more HP solely because you ran 1000 rpm higher on the TT chip is all.

we'll see if these BFI/C2 chip issues are finally solved as soon as i get the latest chip in the mail. i am still tempted to go with my backup plan and get a custom solution but want to give this BFI/C2 chip a final shot and some conclusion.

[Hurt]

i totally agree about TT...they are awesome...and i wasn't implying they werent. just was curious to see if you made more HP solely because you ran 1000 rpm higher on the TT chip is all.

No no, the peak power was reached at around 6,200 RPM so the difference wasn't just because of the extra 800 or so RPM. There was really no use revving that engine to 8,000, I shifted it at 7200 in 1st, 7200 in 2nd, 7000 the rest. I could just rev to 8000 safely.
If c2 ends up fixing this chip, I will probably switch over my daily to the C2 file.

[The Big V]

Just for ease will copy/paste what i wrote to BFI about the new revision D (4) chip i installed this weekend.---

Got the new chip....installed it Saturday! Ran it for half a day then installed my stock vw chip for an hour or so simply for comparison and then re-installed your new chip. This chip (revision 4 or D) seems like a different map than the previous..?? The idle is not steady...it drops down and stalled at least half dozen times in neutral that day alone. There seems to be NO idle adjustment...??...as when it does idle steady its at 850rpms. Very hard starting when engine cold...like an old carb muscle car. That wasnt the case w the stock chip testing. Do you think the higher set idle is what made the old chips problematic? There is no rev rising yet though! But it nearly feels like the revs are being forced down and its VERY difficult to drive just around town/city...the falling revs might be me just not used to my lightened flywheel again since the older chips revs were always trying to rise unless i brought it down w the clutch...but i didnt have the stallouts w the stock chip during testing. It still feels very on/off cutoff at lower rpms...a little too jerky. Its seems pretty hard on my clutch (or clutch muscle ha) driving around looking for parking. Highway driving (and high rpms) seems similar to before *(c2 chips) with good power. I still think there is more power to be had through programming w a 276 cam and ported head though. If you guys DID adjust idle w this stg 2 cam file chip then its not working on this chip...!?

Let me know your thoughts and if you can answer or elaborate on any of mine.*
-------

To add...a lightened flywheel should make the revs fall faster but not harder as i understand it. I also drive 40+ crazy different cars regularly for work to know how to clutch/drive manual properly....the stock chip revs didnt plummet and force a stall but the revs still fell rapidly. I'm not sure i'm making better sense...long day, time to sleep. Have driven about 100miles at this point...no check engine light for idle adapt or sys rich or anything yet.

[unknowable]

Have you checked your Dashpot? Not sure if OBDII has a dashpot, but it may require some adjustment. an over-extended dashpot will cause rev hang.

[911_fan]

Im not exactly sure why you all pop the chip in and expect it to adapt instantaneously. Every chip I had, both the V1, it took some time for the chip to adapt and for the idle to be good. You cant just swap back and forth like this and expect results. Ive bee seeing this on this thread a lot with those who get different revisions. And comparing it to the stock chip isnt a good source of comparison.

I dunno....just my thoughts on what Ive been reading. I ran two original versions of this chip, so Im there with you on all these issues, but for the life of me, i cannot figure out how this has been blown so out of proportion with multiple versions.

[The Big V]

Im not exactly sure why you all pop the chip in and expect it to adapt instantaneously. Every chip I had, both the V1, it took some time for the chip to adapt and for the idle to be good. You cant just swap back and forth like this and expect results. Ive bee seeing this on this thread a lot with those who get different revisions. And comparing it to the stock chip isnt a good source of comparison.

I dunno....just my thoughts on what Ive been reading. I ran two original versions of this chip, so Im there with you on all these issues, but for the life of me, i cannot figure out how this has been blown so out of proportion with multiple versions.

I've driven over a 100 miles on the new revision chip...it tries to idle at 850 and often stalls...its supposed to idle around 950-1050 and not stall everytime i am in neutral..i understand the chips/ecu need adapt time. I ran the stock chip for an afternoon to compare basic characteristics and idle because i hadnt run a stock chip since my ported head big cam install. The stock chip idled at 850 immediately and i just needed to differentiate a lopey idle compared to a wonky idle. I had run the revision C chip for weeks beforehand. Joe at BFI thinks this might be a bad burn as they were having issues w chips last week. So i'm getting another revision D (4) chip in soon. This latest chip doesnt have the carrier that the BFI chips usually come with...i'm one of the first testers of this newly encoded chip....this is like the stock chip or TT chip and fits directly in the ecu.

[The Big V]

well so far so good on this new 4th revision chip (4b...or second D chip....however ya wanna say it).....no CELs, no idle issues, good power...only been a few days...gonna give it 2 weeks at least to really see how it adapts and if anything comes up but best initial start of ANY of the chips so far! the last chip definitely had some burn issues/errors as it never really smoothed out after over a week.....this chip has no PEM carrier as well and is a straight chip swap like the oem or TT etc...i'm not sure what else they changed but i'm crossing my fingers that this is the end of my chip swapping days...although i have it down to like 5-10 minutes haha.

anyone else testing chips still?

[The Big V]

just pulled a p1582 on the latest chip....this has the idle set to 1050 i believe whereas the previous version 4 chip was normal non adjusted idle at 850....so i'm wondering if that has anything to do with it....tried clearing code but it came back within a couple seconds....will test further and see what else we can determine.

[Kiyokix]

Interesting find, I'm very glad to hear the chip is the best out of any of the previous version so far. I wonder why the code is popping right now, definately keep us posted on what's up with that.

As soon as they get these babies rockin like they're supposed to, I'll buy a new one so quickly. For now I'm using the TT chip I bought a couple weeks back after removing my chip. No problems at all so far, good power, good response, etc..

It's certainly not as good as the PEM chip I was using (when it ran was first installed), but it's keeping me satisfied until the issues are worked out with those. It IS nice to finally not keep wondering if after combing over the car 5000 times looking for problems, that it's not the car though lol.

Now that the p1582 code has shown up on your car, does it still run the same? Still got the same power, same good idle, etc. etc.

Also do you know if they've left in the idle adjustment ability using a vagcom with the newest version of the chip? Just a general question for now, not really asking you to change it during the 2 week 'hope this stays awesome' period.

Kei

[Hurt]

.

As soon as they get these babies rockin like they're supposed to, I'll buy a new one so quickly. For now I'm using the TT chip
I

x2

[Kiyokix]

I happened to check out the BFI site today and noticed....they're selling the chips like V has (no more carrier), and they've also dropped the price down to $149.99

Things are getting more and more intersting indeed.

Kei

[Hurt]

I happened to check out the BFI site today and noticed....they're selling the chips like V has (no more carrier), and they've also dropped the price down to $149.99

Things are getting more and more intersting indeed.

Kei

Yes, I noticed that a week or so ago.

[dudeman08]

are they doing exchanges of old chips for the new ones? just curious. its been a while since ive been in this forum.

[Hurt]

are they doing exchanges of old chips for the new ones? just curious. its been a while since ive been in this forum.

If you come forward with problems, I'm sure C2 will have you send your old chip back to be reflashed.

[The Big V]

Interesting find, I'm very glad to hear the chip is the best out of any of the previous version so far. I wonder why the code is popping right now, definately keep us posted on what's up with that.

As soon as they get these babies rockin like they're supposed to, I'll buy a new one so quickly. For now I'm using the TT chip I bought a couple weeks back after removing my chip. No problems at all so far, good power, good response, etc..

It's certainly not as good as the PEM chip I was using (when it ran was first installed), but it's keeping me satisfied until the issues are worked out with those. It IS nice to finally not keep wondering if after combing over the car 5000 times looking for problems, that it's not the car though lol.

Now that the p1582 code has shown up on your car, does it still run the same? Still got the same power, same good idle, etc. etc.

Also do you know if they've left in the idle adjustment ability using a vagcom with the newest version of the chip? Just a general question for now, not really asking you to change it during the 2 week 'hope this stays awesome' period.

Kei

yeah cant seem to clear the code...it pops up a few seconds after its cleared everytime. no different driving characteristics since code popped. the idle is much much smoother than before with the 4th revision chip with bad flash/no idle adjust....but part of that is the bfi .5 mount up front and the stealth mount in the rear that i am running most likely...it was just a bad idle before in general...up and down...but driving the car was quite good...didnt seem as jerky as this chip and drove hard with nice power. i'm not sure if the chip negates the vagcom idle adjustment...but i think i'd like to try one final chip withOUT idle raised and do it myself via vagcom and see if any differences etc. if i can get my little netbook setup this week and get vagcom on it i will try adjust idle with the current chip...but not sure i will have time.

I happened to check out the BFI site today and noticed....they're selling the chips like V has (no more carrier), and they've also dropped the price down to $149.99

Things are getting more and more intersting indeed.

Kei

nice find and thanks for reporting!!!

Yes, I noticed that a week or so ago.

nice find and thanks for not telling anyone!!

are they doing exchanges of old chips for the new ones? just curious. its been a while since ive been in this forum.

If you come forward with problems, I'm sure C2 will have you send your old chip back to be reflashed.

i'm not certain if you can reflash these chips or not but regardless if you are having issues with your car running and have checked all the cars possible issues and diagnosed it as the chip after reading this thread then i would recommend you email/get in touch with JOE @ BFI....i would not advise you speak with C2 about these issues. Joe has been great and i think things are still getting better with the chips...very close now. if it meets their criteria they will send you a new chip to test or as replacement. post on the POLL we have on vortex as well as post questions/thoughts on this thread.

[The Big V]

chip test update---
well i'm getting a bit of rev rise and its still jerky at low rpms...was driving around for about 30-60 minutes just around the city the other day and parking......i am thinking i wanna try one more chip withOUT the idle adjustment to see if that helps as the last chip albeit with issues didnt give me a CEL and didnt seem as rough to DRIVE although it has its own idle problems. then i can try to setup vagcom finally and adjust my idle per the cabrio mk3.5 blocks and hope that things will be taken care of....or see if they can change the idle adaption coding in the chip itself.....i dont have any vagcom readouts to back my theory up but seems consistent with the back-to-back street tests honestly.

[Hurt]

chip test update---
well i'm getting a bit of rev rise and its still jerky at low rpms...was driving around for about 30-60 minutes just around the city the other day and parking......i am thinking i wanna try one more chip withOUT the idle adjustment to see if that helps as the last chip albeit with issues didnt give me a CEL and didnt seem as rough to DRIVE although it has its own idle problems. then i can try to setup vagcom finally and adjust my idle per the cabrio mk3.5 blocks and hope that things will be taken care of....or see if they can change the idle adaption coding in the chip itself.....i dont have any vagcom readouts to back my theory up but seems consistent with the back-to-back street tests honestly.

Why do you even adjust the idle? It doesn't need it. 800-850RPM is fine for a 276* cam in my car.

[The Big V]

Why do you even adjust the idle? It doesn't need it. 800-850RPM is fine for a 276* cam in my car.

Well it was a standard feature of the stage 2 cam chip....i want to try adjusting idle (lower) w vagcom to see if it responds regardless of chip coding...and/or just get a chip without idle adjustment. I like the raised idle initially (honestly) because with the .5 front and stealth rear poly motor mounts i was getting some decent vibration on the dash and extra noise even w stock engine head...you could literally see the hood shaking. The lopey-er idle didnt scare or bother me. Do you have any poly motor mounts? Whats been done to your car? I thought you had an automatic w a 270 cam??

[The Big V]

Hurt -- i see you have a couple cars in your sig actually....so that 96 mkiii was the wife's and is now sold? what mods done to the Jetta?? you have 276 cam on it? did you run a bfi chip on it ever? and where in CT are ya?

[Hurt]

Hurt -- i see you have a couple cars in your sig actually....so that 96 mkiii was the wife's and is now sold? what mods done to the Jetta?? you have 276 cam on it? did you run a bfi chip on it ever? and where in CT are ya?

My wife daily'd a 96 Golf for the longest time before I bought her a new GTI. Automatic, 270* autotech kit, exhaust, Injen intake, TT chip, etc. That car originally had a 260* autotech cam, but I got a good deal on the 270* kit. I live in Central CT, but I own a house in LongMeadow MA, and a triple-decker in Boston where I grew up.

My Jetta GT has quite a bit of modifications done to it.

Right now I'm running a TT chip. I had a C2, but it was really getting out of hand. The rev hang is common amongst cam file chips in my experience, but the C2 was certainly the worst for me. It bucked, the throttle response was absolute crap.. I just couldn't deal with it. But with the TT chip, it feels like there's a power restriction somewhere. I wish C2 would squash the problems so I could buy a new tune. My VR6's C2 chip is 100% fine. Bah.

[The Big V]

PMed ya Hurt (actually twice)

hoping to hear back from BFI about one final chip test...

[Hurt]

PMed ya Hurt (actually twice)

hoping to hear back from BFI about one final chip test...

Got em.

Does BFI just keep sending you the new chips as a lab-mouse, in a sense? I'd be interested in testing their newer cam chips, but I don't want to waste money for a faulty chip.

[The Big V]

Got em.

Does BFI just keep sending you the new chips as a lab-mouse, in a sense? I'd be interested in testing their newer cam chips, but I don't want to waste money for a faulty chip.

yes i'm a lab mouse. gotta pay to play.

[The Big V]

so i've been going over my build and i am wondering how much my ported MKIII intake mani could "not be helping" this chip...i did NOT get a code with the previous chip that did NOT have the adjusted idle...sooo i am thinking it's still the chip but i am curious what some of ya (more mechanically/computer experienced) think..?

i'm really hoping to test out 1 final chip for C2/BFI (same revision but minus idle adjust)...i didnt hear back from BFI today but Joe has been chatting with C2 about what more they can do. if this next and final chip doesnt fix everything then i am going to my plan B.

[The Big V]

new (non-adjusted idle) chip on it's way! no word from C2 yet through BFI if anything more we can do/where to go after this.

i might try and get this netbook setup dual boot and then run vagcom and get familiar with idle adapt/adjust first i think....i've been sitting on it for months now just too busy with other things.

[911_fan]

Vic, I highly doubt your manifold has any effect on the chip. Heck, it's already been proven that a ported MKIII manifold does almost nothing to flow/power, so I would scratch that off your list.

[The Big V]

Vic, I highly doubt your manifold has any effect on the chip. Heck, it's already been proven that a ported MKIII manifold does almost nothing to flow/power, so I would scratch that off your list.

well i was talking mostly about the idle based on the ported mkiii intake...and the chips adjusted idle compatibility as well. i thought if the ported mkiii intake affects idle (leaning fuel?) and the chip already has idle issues this would exacerbate them.

the old thread you and Prof315 made about the intakes he stated he had some idle issues/running lean w the ported mkiii intake. and you both said that the torque/power increase was beneficial with the ported mkiii intake. regardless i got it with my head porting for basically nothing so i put it on. i am still hoping to develop a better bolt-on mkiv intake mani ported/flowed setup this summer.

I did notice that the car accelerates MUCH quicker up to 4000rpm with the ported mk3 intake and goes almost stalling lean at idle so on the street I think the ported intake will be a lot more fun.
If I had to choose ported or unported mk3 right now I'd have to say ported. The acceleration from off idle to around 4000 is very very nice. It pulls as well as the others I've done.
I'd love to leave things alone but right now with the ported mk3 intake on and the same tune as the unported mk3 the car barely idles. So i'll at least retune the idle and off idle areas in my fuel map.
I wish I had access to a steady state dyno so I could see the difference between the unported and ported mk3 manifolds at off idle to 3000 cause the car feels different at that range (actually up to 4000). It's really tough to get a good pull on a dynojet below 3000 with a low hp motor (under 200whp)

The horsepower line is very decieving because the graph is so small, but the lower torque comparison tells the tale. The MKIII ported is VERY beneficial for low end grunt. Impressive.

*edit--realizing that Prof's car was running MS and mine is stock ECU (variable w/ MAF) i could see how my idle shouldnt be as affected but i thought this intake could be a factor nonetheless. just a thought. i am anxious to test the chip without idle adjustment and still think these are chip issues...just trying to run through everything and be consistent.

[911_fan]

I think you are confusing the MKIII and mkiv results. It was the ported mkiv mani that had the big gains up top. The ported MKIII mani had barely 2ft/lbs mid-rpm. Porting the MKIII mani is close to pointless.

[The Big V]

Those posts were all before the mkiv was tested, which obviously had significantly more gains. I have the ported installed just in the meantime its not my final...i'll do a custom mkiv like i said or a usrt lri in the end.

I was just pointing it out for the possible idle issues/CEL. Doesnt help i dont have vagcom setup yet or a wideband. I'm not keepin the ported mkiii intake or saying its awesome...it is definitely better on the low end vs stock.

[brianalexander]

I've got a 97 2.0 with a ported head, 270 cam, obx header and bfi stage 2 cam chip and experiencing the same issues. No cel's but rev hangs back to idle and it is much more drastic with the AC on. I received my chip early November, so probably an early variation. Just wanted let you folks know you are not alone! Patrick where in la are you?

[macanic21]

Hey guys. I just got my car back from being inspected. It is still running great! There is some rev hang and high idle when the car is cold but so far it is going away once the car gets warm. The power is good. The exhaust gurgle on deceleration that I like is back as well. It never did this with the C2 in the old ECU.

Is anyone having these problems with an Automatic car?

Once again, All I Changed was the ECU to a 96 Auto version.

It is throwing a code for the missing trans but still no CEL.

[Hurt]

Hey guys. I just got my car back from being inspected. It is still running great! There is some rev hang and high idle when the car is cold but so far it is going away once the car gets warm. The power is good. The exhaust gurgle on deceleration that I like is back as well. It never did this with the C2 in the old ECU.

Is anyone having these problems with an Automatic car?

Once again, All I Changed was the ECU to a 96 Auto version.

It is throwing a code for the missing trans but still no CEL.

I had issues with a automatic car. Similar to the standards.