Installed BFI Stage 2 Chip, ran great for 4 days, now idle problems & rev hang

[Jason@C2Motorsports]

...So something is being done!

Something HAS been done!

Here at C2, when we have a known issue with one of our products, we make sure to jump right on it to satisfy any customer having similar issues. We have recently talked to BFI and have come up with a solution for everyone regarding to issues with this software to upgrade.

We are going to let anyone having this problem, pay a flat rate of just $20 for the new software.

Since it has not been a problem with 100% of customers with this chip, that is why we decided to charge ONLY 10% of retail price for chip vs. getting the chip for free.

If anyone has any further questions, feel free to e-mail me at Jason@C2Motorsports.com

Thanks
-Jason

[GloryFreak]

Something HAS been done!

Here at C2, when we have a known issue with one of our products, we make sure to jump right on it to satisfy any customer having similar issues. We have recently talked to BFI and have come up with a solution for everyone regarding to issues with this software to upgrade.

We are going to let anyone having this problem, pay a flat rate of just $20 for the new software.

Since it has not been a problem with 100% of customers with this chip, that is why we decided to charge ONLY 10% of retail price for chip vs. getting the chip for free.

If anyone has any further questions, feel free to e-mail me at Jason@C2Motorsports.com

Thanks
-Jason

Sounds good Jason, I sent you an email from my yahoo email account. Hoping to get this before the weekend.

[The Big V]

hmmm....got my new updated chip in and installed it in the carrier and then in the ecu...no startup. took it out and put old bfi/c2 chip in just to test and it wouldnt start....?? oil light flashed as well...checked oil and all good. put oem stock chip in and it started right up. i have a check engine light on for what i think is only SAI buttttt of course one of the mechs at work borrowed the scantron obd2 scanner to use on the garages R8 so i'm going to rescan everything tonight or more likely this weekend. i believe when i initially installed my bfi/c2 chip i had cleared and reset everything before taking the stock vw chip out. is this a definite and necessary step for compatibility?? i am glad i tested the old bfi chip after putting it back in the carrier to see its not the new chip causing an issue but wish i had tested the old as is initially before switching the chips. any suggestions?? i took video of all three startups (or attempts) with my iphone but haven't uploaded anything yet and not that it would necessarily give more clues. it cranks but doesnt turn over. could it be as simple as i pushed the chip into the carrier too far?? i seemingly recall it not being pushed fully flush into the carrier when i orig bought it...or the carrier has to be seated more into the ecu....i could just be reaching here. i wore nitrile gloves and everything was in anti-static bags and with switching chips out nothing was damaged.

think thats enough of a ramble for the moment...i'm hoping i made a simple mistake somewhere as it was like 2am but any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

i'll update as soon as i can.

[joe@blackforest]

Big V:

I sent you an email - I have an idea what your issue is, shouldn't be to hard to resolve..

[GloryFreak]

Big V:

I sent you an email - I have an idea what your issue is, shouldn't be to hard to resolve..

Please do tell in case others have similar issue. Oh and Joe, I sent the money through paypal on that link you sent me yesterday.

[The Big V]

Big V:

I sent you an email - I have an idea what your issue is, shouldn't be to hard to resolve..

Got it and responded thank you! Are the green dot/black dot different tunes or carrier specific?

for the rest of you...there are green or black dots on the bottom of the carriers or chips and i think i was having a compatibility issue it seems...waiting to hear back on this....really impressed with BFI/C2 for getting on this so quickly but also for keeping up on it!

[bluntman220]

Got it and responded thank you! Are the green dot/black dot different tunes or carrier specific?

for the rest of you...there are green or black dots on the bottom of the carriers or chips and i think i was having a compatibility issue it seems...waiting to hear back on this....really impressed with BFI/C2 for getting on this so quickly but also for keeping up on it!

X2 guys well done you will come highly recommended by me and your product speaks for itself!


cant wait to get this in the mail been itching to drive the car one more time before the snow files


P4C(mines the one in the middle)

[Patrick007]

So at this point I've installed the new burn from BFI. I have about 50 miles on it, with about 3 cold starts. I know tdogg suggested a few more cold starts, but I'm pretty confident at this point that the issue still exists and is not improving. The rev hang is still there for me bigtime. I performed the TB alignment procedure with VAGCOM after installing the new chip. Furthermore, I got a CEL which I haven't gotten before:

16989 - Internal Control Module: ROM Error P0605 - 35-00 - -

I logged some data as follows:

Around Town Cruise



Highway Cruise



Full Throttle



Couple things that stick out to me:

1. Full throttle TPS % is 85%

2. Ignition timing seems quite unsteady

Help?

-Patrick

[Fast VW]

Do some logs of blocks 02, 010, and 045. Do not graph any of info simply post the logs.

[Patrick007]

What operating conditions are most useful? Cruise, city, full throttle?

-Patrick

[Kiyokix]

Couple things that stick out to me:

1. Full throttle TPS % is 85%

-Patrick

Interesting, that's more than what mine say. Mine is usually around 77-78% so I'm unsure of what it should be at normally. I posted a few posts back asking what other had for theirs...interesting info indeed.

Anyone else out there care to chime in with their TPS numbers...especially anyone with a new one?

Do some logs of blocks 02, 010, and 045. Do not graph any of info simply post the logs.

What should he be looking for in those blocks, I'm pretty sure I know what block 2 is, but what exactly are you looking for? For comparison purposes, I'm still on the older tune, and I'm more than willing to log the same blocks to see if things are different for us both.

Kei

[Fast VW]

Block 02 is going to give fuel injector on time. Block 010 is engine load and ignition timing. Block 045 is knock sensor activity.

Bring the car to full operating temp (inlcuding oil temp) by driving around (highway speed works best) for 20 mins min. Then I would do 1 or 2 3rd gear pulls 2000rpm to redline. A short cruise, but most important log right before, during and after the "rev hang". I remember reading a post a long time ago dealing with this issue and it turned out to be something with the fuel injector duty cycle. I am real curious to see what the injectors are doing during the "rev hang". Block 045 really has nothing to do with this issue but it is something I would like to see if you do not mind.

For comparison, both of my ABAs show 84.6 at WOT.

[GloryFreak]

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Friday, 28 October 2011, 22:06:31:63256
Control Module Part Number: 037 906 259
Component and/or Version: BFI ABA S2 003 HS V08
Software Coding: 00000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066
VCID: D9C5797F5017
1 Fault Found:
16989 - Internal Control Module: ROM Error
P0605 - 35-00 - -

Got this after updated chip installed today...

[gtiswapped96]

So that's two guys with the new tune and two guys with the 16989 code? This ain't looking pretty for me considering I'm waiting for mine in the mail.....

[Kiyokix]

Block 02 is going to give fuel injector on time. Block 010 is engine load and ignition timing. Block 045 is knock sensor activity.

Bring the car to full operating temp (inlcuding oil temp) by driving around (highway speed works best) for 20 mins min. Then I would do 1 or 2 3rd gear pulls 2000rpm to redline. A short cruise, but most important log right before, during and after the "rev hang". I remember reading a post a long time ago dealing with this issue and it turned out to be something with the fuel injector duty cycle. I am real curious to see what the injectors are doing during the "rev hang". Block 045 really has nothing to do with this issue but it is something I would like to see if you do not mind.

For comparison, both of my ABAs show 84.6 at WOT.

Thanks, I went outside after I asked and took a look at those blocks to see what they were. I do wonder about my injectors in the car right now, but I haven't figured out if they're having a problem or not...though looking at some of the numbers makes me wonder.

I'll post my log as well later today if you don't mind looking at it. Heck, if all it takes to get my stuff back to 100% I'll buy new injectors asap.

I would LOVE to see a few more TPS numbers from you guys too, I wonder why mine is always 77-78% and no more.

Kei

(also very interested to see what comes of this new code the last 2 guys got)

[gtiswapped96]

I already installed new injectors homie.....and still a no go

[911_fan]

I wonder why mine is always 77-78% and no more.

Thats normal on most cars. Its because your gas pedal isnt opening the throttle plate all the way. Take the boot off and have a look while someone floors it (engine off, of course). This is why its important to do throttle adaptations with VAGCOM when you screw with things. You can adjust the cable position by moving the cable where the grommets attach the cable to the intake manifold. They are round grommets over a ribbed part of the cable. If you pull hard enough, you will notice you can move the pedal up or down. This especially comes in handy when you want to position your gas pedal for the perfect heel-toe position.

You should also be away that there is a stopper UNDER your gas pedal that can unscrew and be removed for more pedal action.

There's ways around everything.

[cm123]

heres a video i took of cold starting the car today
20 seconds after the video end it went down to normal rpms (i was in a rush so i had to cut the video short )
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4617/6sqk.mp4

[Kiyokix]

Thats normal on most cars. Its because your gas pedal isnt opening the throttle plate all the way. Take the boot off and have a look while someone floors it (engine off, of course). This is why its important to do throttle adaptations with VAGCOM when you screw with things. You can adjust the cable position by moving the cable where the grommets attach the cable to the intake manifold. They are round grommets over a ribbed part of the cable. If you pull hard enough, you will notice you can move the pedal up or down. This especially comes in handy when you want to position your gas pedal for the perfect heel-toe position.

You should also be away that there is a stopper UNDER your gas pedal that can unscrew and be removed for more pedal action.

There's ways around everything.

Thanks Trav, I figured it must be okay since it will still do an adaptation with my vagcom, and the specs were all in line with what I've seen to be good. I wonder how much of variance there is between some of these.

I've eyed up the pedal position A LOT because since I don't have huge/wide feet it is entirely too uncomfortable for heel & toe motions.

Kei

[GloryFreak]

Update: Driven about 120 miles with about 8 cold starts. Rev hang issue is gone but now not only am I still getting the system too rich, but I'm getting the Internal Control Module: ROM Error message with the updated chip.

[gtiswapped96]

^^wtf!!!!! Boooooooooooooo!!!!! This updated tune is not looking too promising at all!!!!

[The Big V]

heres a video i took of cold starting the car today
20 seconds after the video end it went down to normal rpms (i was in a rush so i had to cut the video short )
http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/4617/6sqk.mp4

wait...but the CEL is on...?? i thought you didnt pull a check engine light with the new upgraded chip tune? whats the code(s) you are getting?

was it actually cold out or running a/c or radio or rear defrost etc when you started it in this video? and the idle settled down to 850 a few seconds after the vid right? no rev hang or odd running issues?

[The Big V]

for the record...i was getting the ROM error CEL with the old chip...i am sending my chips back to BFI and getting a new upgraded chip and will report back my results.

keep posting data and information/feedback guys...we have to diagnose the problems.

edit clarification---old chip meaning the original...i have to send my chips back because the new chip wasn't compatible with the carrier i have (see my no start after swap a few posts up)....getting a proper replacement asap.

[The Big V]

has anyone spoken with BFI or C2 about the continued or new issues??

GloryFreak - did you drive to C2 to get this new update done or did they mail it to ya? have you spoken to them about coming in to try to diagnose some of the problems live connected to their computers?

[cm123]

wait...but the CEL is on...?? i thought you didnt pull a check engine light with the new upgraded chip tune? whats the code(s) you are getting?

was it actually cold out or running a/c or radio or rear defrost etc when you started it in this video? and the idle settled down to 850 a few seconds after the vid right? no rev hang or odd running issues?

the CEL is on for an evap leak which i dont bother fixing since it passes inspection and it doesnt cause the car to run like crap
yes it was cold out, it was the day of the big snow storm NY had 2 days ago around 35 degrees.
my car never idled at 850 it was always around 900-920. the rev hang would only be from these cold starts since the car is in warm up cycle. after that it would be consistent rpm's

[The Big V]

the CEL is on for an evap leak which i dont bother fixing since it passes inspection and it doesnt cause the car to run like crap
yes it was cold out, it was the day of the big snow storm NY had 2 days ago around 35 degrees.
my car never idled at 850 it was always around 900-920. the rev hang would only be from these cold starts since the car is in warm up cycle. after that it would be consistent rpm's

yeah this weather we're having out here suuucks...i'm not ready for winter. did you check CEL codes to make sure any new ones aren't coming up? like the ROM error others are having? thanks for keeping up on this man! i just sent my chip back via UPS to bfi/c2 before closing monday night so will keep you all posted after i get my new new one in.

[Fast VW]

Couple things that stick out to me:

1. Full throttle TPS % is 85%

2. Ignition timing seems quite unsteady

Help?

-Patrick

I believe the "unsteady ignition timing" is actually the result of knock sensor activity but we need to see the logs to verify.

The "too rich" code and rev hang are possibly related to the injector on time being too long. This is just a hunch but we need to see logs.

[GloryFreak]

has anyone spoken with BFI or C2 about the continued or new issues??

GloryFreak - did you drive to C2 to get this new update done or did they mail it to ya? have you spoken to them about coming in to try to diagnose some of the problems live connected to their computers?

Talked with C2 and because I bought my chip from BFI I needed to contact them. BFI was the one that sent me the updated chip.

[gtiswapped96]

I believe the "unsteady ignition timing" is actually the result of knock sensor activity but we need to see the logs to verify.

The "too rich" code and rev hang are possibly related to the injector on time being too long. This is just a hunch but we need to see logs.

I've always thought bout the injector timing being too long...what exactly controls the timing...ecu? So maybe if the timing is too long? Bad ecu? Just another hunchskees

[cm123]

just checked to see if any other codes have come up since i installed, and P0172 is back
maybe its time for me to change the front o2 sensor? the car runs fine besides that

[Fast VW]

You do not need a front O2 sensor. The problem is in the tune/chip. I believe it is commanding the fuel injectors to stay open too long causing the idle/hanging rev problem to occur and triggering the P0172 code. When this happens occasionally it would cause a pending code and if it happens frequently enough it causes the CEL.

Loging the event with vagcom and marking the log with "here I pushed in the clutch", "here the rev hang/idle issue occured", etc. would be very beneficial to understanding what is occuring.

I have a custom C2 tune for an auto transmission. It was my wife's car not mine. Anyways when the car is completly cold (i.e. sits over night) or warmed up enough to be out of "warm up" mode the car idles and runs perfectly. If the car is just at a point where it is leaving warm up mode and it is put into neutral or park (i.e. less load) the idle will bounce between 1000 rpm to 2500 rpm. It will continue to do this until it is out of "warm up" mode or until it is put into gear. If you begin to drive it you are ok unless you turn the AC on, for the first 1/2 mile or so. With the AC on it will almost stall at a stop light.

One day while it was doing the rev climb I shut it off and removed a spark plug. It was soaking wet with fuel. I also get the P0172 code but it is always pending.

The car runs perfectly with any chip other than the C2 chip.

[cm123]

You do not need a front O2 sensor. The problem is in the tune/chip. I believe it is commanding the fuel injectors to stay open too long causing the idle/hanging rev problem to occur and triggering the P0172 code. When this happens occasionally it would cause a pending code and if it happens frequently enough it causes the CEL.

Loging the event with vagcom and marking the log with "here I pushed in the clutch", "here the rev hang/idle issue occured", etc. would be very beneficial to understanding what is occuring.

I have a custom C2 tune for an auto transmission. It was my wife's car not mine. Anyways when the car is completly cold (i.e. sits over night) or warmed up enough to be out of "warm up" mode the car idles and runs perfectly. If the car is just at a point where it is leaving warm up mode and it is put into neutral or park (i.e. less load) the idle will bounce between 1000 rpm to 2500 rpm. It will continue to do this until it is out of "warm up" mode or until it is put into gear. If you begin to drive it you are ok unless you turn the AC on, for the first 1/2 mile or so. With the AC on it will almost stall at a stop light.

One day while it was doing the rev climb I shut it off and removed a spark plug. It was soaking wet with fuel. I also get the P0172 code but it is always pending.

The car runs perfectly with any chip other than the C2 chip.

so should i get another chip from c2? i mean this one actually works. It doesn't cause the car shut off during the warm up cycle or while driving which is what the old one was doing. The only problem as you can tell is the code P0172.
hopefully they can get this fixed. I guess ill have to give them a call about the code coming up

[cm123]

so about everyone asking me where the car idles at normally here is a pic.
Also i just realzied the RPMs go up by 200 im not sure as to why i kept thinking the idle was around 920

[cm123]

sorry for posting 3 times in a row.
The only symptom i see that my car is having is the gas mileage that im getting. Not sure if this is due to the chip or not since i dont really beat on the car. the only time i did was the first 2 days i had the chip for it the car to recognize it.

[The Big V]

Fast VW - have you checked your wife's throttle body? as in cleaned it out? and done a vagcom tps adapt? guessing you have but just checking

Patrick007 - can you log the 2 scenarios Fast VW mentioned sometime this week??..."here i pushed the clutch in" and "here i have rev hang/etc"

it sounds like there are 3 or 4 issues with the tune and c2/bfi fixed the specific issue(s) pertaining to 98+ cars but not the injector CEL problem or rev/throttle issue.

Kiyokix - have you spoken to Jeff about your chip and has he looked into diagnosing these issues?

we'll get this all figured out soon.