2012 Honda Civic Si vs. 2012 Mazdaspeed 3 [w/video]

[omoderncultureo]

Can Honda reclaim the crown as king of the front-wheel drive sport compact segment?

Unlike the Honda Civic Si’s dominance of the sport compact scene during the ‘80s and ‘90s, these days the more powerful and aggressively styled MazdaSpeed3 rules the front-drive roost (and the VW Golf GTI isn’t far behind). But with the introduction of the all-new 2012 Civic Si, Honda has a golden opportunity to strike back and reclaim the title as king of the FWD pocket rockets. To find out if Soichiro Honda would be grinning from ear to ear or frowning in disapproval, we brought the 9th generation Civic Si and the MazdaSpeed3 to Toronto Motorsports Park for a knockdown, drag ‘em out, head-to-head shootout where the only things that matter are acceleration, braking, and grip.

THE COMBATANTS

With a whopping $5 between the two on price (our Civic Si coupe came equipped with the optional Navigation package and thus lists at $23,705 versus the Mazdaspeed3 at $23,700), your credit limit isn’t going to be the deciding factor here. Where these two front-drive performance cars differ the most is under the hood – the MazdaSpeed3 uses a 2.3-liter direct injection turbocharged engine to produce 263-hp at 5500 rpm and a stump-pulling 280 lb-ft at 3000 rpm, while the Civic Si generates 201-hp at 7000 rpm and 170 lb-ft at 4300 rpm thanks to its naturally aspirated 2.4-liter engine.

Although it may seem like Honda brought a knife to a gunfight given the horsepower and torque gap between it and the Mazda, in a world controlled by the laws of physics mass is also an important variable. With the Civic tipping the scales at a relatively svelte 2,877 lbs and the surprisingly hefty MS3 weighing in at 3,272 lbs, the playing field should be at least somewhat leveled, especially when you consider that weight not only affects acceleration but also braking and handling.

In terms of slowing all that mass down, getting it around corners, and putting power to the ground, there’s less to differentiate these two machines. Both use 6-speed manual transmissions, gear-type limited slip differentials, and MacPherson strut front and multi-link rear suspension layouts. Both also come equipped with upgraded braking systems and the usual stability and traction control systems (which we turned off during track testing since these always result in slower and less consistent lap times in dry conditions).

FIRST IMPRESSIONS

You only get one chance to make a first impression, and as I launch the new Civic Si coupe down the 1,500-ft long front straightaway at Toronto Motorsports Park, the extra torque of the 2.4-liter engine is immediately apparent, as is the 7,200-rpm fuel cutoff. An Si-badged Civic that doesn’t rev to 8000-rpm and scream like a banshee while doing it? Hmm. This will take some getting used to.

After a 4-3 downshift and a brief but determined stamp on the brake pedal, I pitch the car into the long right-hand Turn 1 at close to 90 mph. The Si’s initial response is a startling amount of body roll followed by a healthy dose of understeer. But hey, just about every production vehicle has some turn-in understeer designed into it as a safety precaution, and once the Si’s stiff chassis takes a set the front tires begin to find some grip. I’m back to full throttle as the inside tire clips the red-and-white curbing and that’s when the superb helical limited slip differential helps pull the Si out of what initially felt like a failed experiment in weight transfer and suspension tuning.

The MazdaSpeed3, by contrast, feels far more eager to turn into a corner and carve a parabolic arc that simultaneous induces a grin and preserves momentum. Body roll feels absent compared to the Honda, and the MS3 even exhibits a willingness to forego understeer in favor of a touch of trail braking-induced oversteer, especially through the tight and twisty esses of Turns 4 and 5.

And the power, oh the glorious turbocharged power! Although it runs out of steam rather suddenly around 6000 rpm, the 3000 rpm leading up to it deliver an “in your face, VTEC!” kick in the pants. The Torsen limited slip differential does a surprisingly good job of directing the gobs of torque to the wheel with the best chance of not converting all that energy into tire smoke, and although torque steer is an annoyance when punching the gas at cruising speeds, out on the racetrack it’s virtually undetectable.

So the MazdaSpeed3 wins around the racetrack and in the fun-to-drive category too. I’ll take mine in the same pearl white color as the test mule, at least until Honda reconnects with it’s go-fast heritage and turns their last remaining performance model into the 100-hp/L screamer it should be.

2012 Mazda Speed 3


Positives:

• Gobs of torque and oodles of horsepower

• Sporty feeling suspension tuning and steering

• 5-door hatchback practicality

Negatives:

• Lack of pedal feel when threshold braking

• Runs out of steam over 6000 rpm

• Front grille styling will scare away some buyers

Positives:

• Super slick transmission and magical limited slip differential

• Stiff and responsive chassis

• Great mid-range torque from its 2.4L engine

Negatives:

• Softly sprung and too much body roll

• 7200 rpm redline means that boy-racer feeling is missing

• Not enough horsepower to compete for the FWD sport compact crown

Video Review:


Full Review

Related Post: MT: Compact Sedans Comparo' - 8 Vehicles

[Tiny4cyl]

Civic Si is just too boring and it's missing true DOHC VTEC (that is to say, two profiles per camshaft)

This is essentially the same car that was on sale 10 years ago ('02 RSX-S)

02 RSX-S ---- 12 Civic Si
200hp 2.0L ---- 201hp 2.4L
141tq ---- 170tq
Open ---- LSD
26xx lbs ---- 28xx lbs

[Bones_Jones]

ms3 really looks weird to me. at least civic isn't offensive.

[Impeccable]

Damn the new Si kinda sucks, I thought it was going to be better than the last gen.

Gimme a last gen si 4 door in red, f*** the new one

[techmonkey]

Sounds like an EP3 redux.

[d_98se]

Um is it me or is that civic shaped like a tent?

[Brimjolt]

MS3, duh

[Bixmen]

ms3 really looks weird to me. at least civic isn't offensive.

I find it offensively boring. and if the MS3 has a negative for styling, the Civic should as well.

[Corbic]

Seriously, what the hell happened to Honda in the last 15 years?

[AutoUnion32]

Seriously, what the hell happened to Honda in the last 15 years?

Pfft, they're just holding back all these years to release the vaporware NSX




MS3

[PiSSAT4motion]

Maybe Im just too young to remember the Civic SI's dominance of th compact car scene in the 80s-90s?
King of the FWD pocket rockets? When did that happen and where was I?

[a2a4raddo]

Maybe Im just too young to remember the Civic SI's dominance of th compact car scene in the 80s-90s?
King of the FWD pocket rockets? When did that happen and where was I?

I never considered the SI king of pocket rockets. Especially when Honda's own camp was putting out cars like the Integra Type-R/GS-R, Prelude Type-SH. There was also Toyota's Celica GT-S, VW's Corrado SLC, and a number of other awesome pocket rockets.

[2.0T_Convert]

Maybe Im just too young to remember the Civic SI's dominance of th compact car scene in the 80s-90s?
King of the FWD pocket rockets? When did that happen and where was I?

Busy with coil packs and window regulators?

[bmann]

To be fair, the MS3 stomps everything in it's class as far as power and handling. But there's just something else that keeps people from actually buying it.

[AutoUnion32]

But there's just something else that keeps people from actually buying it.

Thin sheetmetal, cheap quality, bad paint, rust issues. But I'd still rock a MS3

[Vash350z]

So the MS3 comes in white now? Hmmmm, it may sound silly to some but color options was a major turn off in the past for me when it came to this car, not anymore

[SSLByron]

So the MS3 comes in white now? Hmmmm, it may sound silly to some but color options was a major turn off in the past for me when it came to this car, not anymore

The gen1 was available in white from mid-2008 on. With the Gen2, they brought Blue back again for the first two years, and dropped it for white again for 2012+.

[C4 A6]

I didn't even need to read and I knew the MS3 would win. Honda has really lost it.

I would have gladly taken 250hp and 150tq out of the 2.4L if it had that 8k+ redline. You don't need a lot of torque when the car is relatively light.

Torque sells cars, horsepower wins roadraces

[bmann]

Thin sheetmetal, cheap quality, bad paint, rust issues. But I'd still rock a MS3

To add to that:

• Horrible gas mileage (18 city/25 hwy)
• High Perf Summer Tires standard (can't drive on safely on snow)
• Must purchase $2,600 tech package to get Navigation
• Goofy looks

[2.0T_Convert]

To add to that:

• Horrible gas mileage (18 city/25 hwy)
• High Perf Summer Tires standard (can't drive on safely on snow)
• Must purchase $2,600 tech package to get Navigation

These were the three I thought of first.

The as tested price includes the navigation on the Honda but not Mazda. Take away navigation and the Civic drops in price.

In fact the as tested price shows the Civic didn't have the optional summer tires which might have made a difference.

[InfraRedline]

...
I would have gladly taken 250hp and 150tq out of the 2.4L if it had that 8k+ redline.
...

I agree with you about everything except this. 250 HP? 150 TQ? 2.4? 8k redline?

These numbers don't add up. It would need to be a 2.0 with ~10k redline for those kinda numbers.

Not that I'd complain

[C4 A6]

I agree with you about everything except this. 250 HP? 150 TQ? 2.4? 8k redline?

These numbers don't add up. It would need to be a 2.0 with ~10k redline for those kinda numbers.

Not that I'd complain

Well I'm not too keen on the engineering behind high output per liter

But K20C with 10k redline would just be a win for Honda.

[AutoUnion32]

I agree with you about everything except this. 250 HP? 150 TQ? 2.4? 8k redline?

These numbers don't add up. It would need to be a 2.0 with ~10k redline for those kinda numbers.

Not that I'd complain

Even though I prefer the torque curve of a turbo motor, there is no doubt a 10k redline would be an awesome drive

[BRealistic]

I'm surprised by the Civic's body lean.


And it's an interesting comparison.
The Civic is not that much slower around the track, but the MS3 feels much faster/sportier.
It kind of goes back to the basic question- do you want speed or the feeling of speed? Hmm.

[C4 A6]

I'm surprised by the Civic's body lean.


And it's an interesting comparison.
The Civic is not that much slower around the track, but the MS3 feels much faster/sportier.
It kind of goes back to the basic question- do you want speed or the feeling of speed? Hmm.

Just like the fartcan thing: do you want to go fast or just sound like you're going fast?

[2.0_Mazda]

Thin sheetmetal, cheap quality, bad paint, rust issues. But I'd still rock a MS3

What rust issues
I can understand the old regular 3's but the new ones are fine.

[unintended acceleration]

I'm surprised by the Civic's body lean.


And it's an interesting comparison.
The Civic is not that much slower around the track, but the MS3 feels much faster/sportier.
It kind of goes back to the basic question- do you want speed or the feeling of speed? Hmm.

Not that much slower? At this particular smallish track, the civic lost by 2 seconds, that isn't close.

This is silly comparison, the MS3 competes with the WRX not the Si. It's just a much faster car all around.

[unintended acceleration]

Thin sheetmetal, cheap quality, bad paint, rust issues. But I'd still rock a MS3

Typical car lounge mis-information.

The MS3's biggest problem is it's looks.

Second biggest problem is it's drivetrain and AWD hype so people gravitate to the WRX.

[AutoUnion32]

Typical car lounge mis-information.

The MS3's biggest problem is it's looks.

Second biggest problem is it's drivetrain and AWD hype so people gravitate to the WRX.

And we're going to gloss over its cheap build quality and bargain basement interior?

[mike02467]

I'll stick with my torqueless 2011 SI with the k20. Which is reportedly way better.

[titleist1976]

So the MS3 comes in white now? Hmmmm, it may sound silly to some but color options was a major turn off in the past for me when it came to this car, not anymore

White is available in Canada.

[2.0T_Convert]

And we're going to gloss over its cheap build quality and bargain basement interior?

Mazda3 has one of the nicer interiors in the class. Looks good without being over the top like Ford.

[Corbic]

Second biggest problem is it's drivetrain and AWD hype so people gravitate to the WRX.

No real hype there, it just makes a better performance car.

Better in the snow, off road, drag strip, street. Why pay roughly the same to get a car that is handicapped and has a smaller aftermarket following.

[Mike!]

No real hype there, it just makes a better performance car.

Better in the snow, off road, drag strip, street. Why pay roughly the same to get a car that is handicapped and has a smaller aftermarket following.

There's intangible aspects that make a car fun to drive. Quick steering, driving feel. Etc. Not that AWD precludes these things, but in the specific case of the MS3 vs WRX, there are reasons to buy an MS3 just as there are reasons to buy a WRX.

[oh noes! cars!]

And we're going to gloss over its cheap build quality and bargain basement interior?

Compared to what? Don't you ****ing say the GTI either