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    Thread: Drive shaft bolt?

    1. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 01:41 PM #1
      Just looking for some clarification. I have heard that there is a bolt that is intentionally left out of our drive shaft and it's connection to the Haldex in the rear. It's purpose is for balance of the spinning drive shaft. Can anyone verify this and if it is true point out where it is.


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    2. 09-26-2011 02:18 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Tredmark4 View Post
      Just looking for some clarification. I have heard that there is a bolt that is intentionally left out of our drive shaft and it's connection to the Haldex in the rear. It's purpose is for balance of the spinning drive shaft. Can anyone verify this and if it is true point out where it is.


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      Where did you hear that because who ever said it needs to keep their thoughts to themselves.
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    3. Banned ThatVdub's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 02:22 PM #3
      all my bolts are present.

    4. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 02:23 PM #4
      Was from a thread from last year. Just read it the other day. Can't locate the thread now though. In the thread he said he found the info in the R32 FAQ section. I did not find it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.


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    5. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 02:25 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post
      all my bolts are present.
      Good to know. Thanks.


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    6. 09-26-2011 02:29 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Tredmark4 View Post
      Was from a thread from last year. Just read it the other day. Can't locate the thread now though. In the thread he said he found the info in the R32 FAQ section. I did not find it, but that doesn't mean it's not there.


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      ALL the bolts should be there 3 holding the front of the prop to the tranferbox....6 on the CV joint...and three holding the rear of the prop to the rear diff unit.
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    7. Member bolide's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 02:45 PM #7
      The factory used nuts on the back of the bolts that serve no other purpose but balancing the driveshaft.
      So if a nut is missing dont add one.

    8. Member graeme86's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 03:00 PM #8
      For balancing purposes, you may also find thicker washers on some bolts.
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      09-26-2011 03:14 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by bolide View Post
      The factory used nuts on the back of the bolts that serve no other purpose but balancing the driveshaft.
      So if a nut is missing dont add one.
      This^^^^^

      Quote Originally Posted by graeme86 View Post
      For balancing purposes, you may also find thicker washers on some bolts.
      And this^^^^^

      It's all in the FAQ. With pictures if I remember correctly. The FAQ is full of important info.
      Search can be your friend if you don't clog up the database with the same F'ing questions over and over.

      --Chuck--

    10. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 05:32 PM #10
      I ask because I could not find. Sorry to make your vagina hurt. Thanks anyway.


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    11. 09-26-2011 07:01 PM #11
      Adding a thicker washer will do bugger all to balance the prop, you really think a 1gram washer will counter balance a 15kg prop lol no...... You don't find the CV joints being balanced with washers etc...
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    12. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 07:17 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Slapbladder View Post
      Adding a thicker washer will do bugger all to balance the prop, you really think a 1gram washer will counter balance a 15kg prop lol no...... You don't find the CV joints being balanced with washers etc...
      The CV joints don't need to be balanced this way.

      The propshaft does, and that's what the extra or missing nuts and washers are for.
      Since they're going to bother to balance it, might as well do it accurately which is why it's done
      to the granularity of the weight of a washer, and not just a nut.

      ian

    13. 09-26-2011 07:31 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Daemon42 View Post
      The CV joints don't need to be balanced this way.

      The propshaft does, and that's what the extra or missing nuts and washers are for.
      Since they're going to bother to balance it, might as well do it accurately which is why it's done
      to the granularity of the weight of a washer, and not just a nut.

      ian
      they don't need to balance it....why would they? its a tube with a machined end which will be balanced anyway....also the fact that there is a rubber donut to remove any harmonics and vibration from the prop on both ends....find me the section in elsa that says when you have removed the prop you need to rebalance it and make sure the bolts and washers are in the right order....
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    14. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 07:39 PM #14
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1561609

      BTW, this is the very first Q&A in the R32 FAQ.

      ian

    15. Banned ThatVdub's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 07:43 PM #15

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      09-26-2011 09:26 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Tredmark4 View Post
      I ask because I could not find. Sorry to make your vagina hurt. Thanks anyway.


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      Why so irritable? You got your answer handed to you on a silver platter.
      I'd think you'd be happy to get it.

      --Chuck--

    17. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 11:08 PM #17
      That's why I said thanks.


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      Last edited by Tredmark4; 09-26-2011 at 11:11 PM.

    18. Member M00NEY's Avatar
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      09-26-2011 11:48 PM #18
      so many wow's
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    19. Banned ThatVdub's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 12:34 AM #19
      I am still suspicious about missing bolts, washers maybe, but entire bolts seems too weird.
      Last edited by ThatVdub; 09-27-2011 at 11:49 PM.

    20. 09-27-2011 06:12 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post
      this is for resonance (droning) to offset harmonics its technically not to balance the shaft. You would need more weight and place it near the outer edge of the prop donut.
      Last edited by Slapbladder; 09-27-2011 at 06:15 AM.
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    21. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 04:53 PM #21
      The whole reason for me asking this is My problem is I have a nasty whine coming from the rear end and this started immediately after getting my car serviced and them telling me they replaced a missing bolt on my drive shaft Haldex connection now boom I have a terrible whine.


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    22. 09-27-2011 08:05 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Tredmark4 View Post
      The whole reason for me asking this is My problem is I have a nasty whine coming from the rear end and this started immediately after getting my car serviced and them telling me they replaced a missing bolt on my drive shaft Haldex connection now boom I have a terrible whine.


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      by adding a bolt that was missing woudl not cause the whine....

      What did they do in the service? Did they touch the rear diff? change the haldex oil etc?

      There have been cases in the UK where muppets working at garages let out the diff oil by mistake refilling it with haldex oil and the other way round....if there is a whine this will point to a mechanical diff issue..
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    23. Banned ThatVdub's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 08:23 PM #23


      Took off my V3's today, and took a pic for ya.

    24. Member M00NEY's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 09:25 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post
      I am still suspicious about missing bolts, washers maybe, but entire bolts seems too weird.
      So, don't go wow like u know something.
      When have you ever seen me act like that? Don't get defensive, I directed nothing whatsoever at you in particular.

      I was wow-ing at the fact that statements get made as if they are fact, when they are in fact completely incorrect.

      I was wow-ing at the fact that someone mentioned that they thought this info was in the FAQ but could not find it, when it is in fact right at the top, as was mentioned.

      And I was wow-ing st the fact that Ian stopped in (who historically has demonstrated more knowledge on the R32 than anyone, but is never arrogant about it), gave the info, and was promptly told he was wrong - by the guy who was wrong. (a guy who really seems to know his ish too, btw)

      So relax ThatVdub. I have never categorically stated anything on these or any other boards, and I tend to clarify that I may or may not remember something correctly, and that I am by no means an expert on cars or mechanics. I like to drive, and I like to learn. I also like to help. If I can, I do.

      I do not like to argue or be a dick, which is what you took me for doing, and exactly why I left my comment vague. It's not my style, and it bothers me that regulars around here, like you, would think that my intention first.

      Make no mistake, I fully understand the uneasy feeling when something looks very wrong on you're car or anything else you take pride in and enjoy.

      GL getting it fully sorted. I will quietly lurk and watch the progress so as to not accidentally offend you again.
      Last edited by M00NEY; 09-27-2011 at 09:33 PM.
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    25. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 09:35 PM #25
      I did an oil change and a Haldex service with the addition of the drive shaft bolt being installed.


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    26. Member Tredmark4's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 09:40 PM #26
      The reason I could not find this originally in the FAQ is that i could only access Tapatalk on my phone for searching. Super old posts from the old forum look like poopoo on Tapatalk and impossible to read sometimes. I'm sorry that I am not as well versed as others in the ins and outs of this forum.


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    27. Member vr6fanatic's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 09:47 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Tredmark4 View Post
      The reason I could not find this originally in the FAQ is that i could only access Tapatalk on my phone for searching. Super old posts from the old forum look like poopoo on Tapatalk and impossible to read sometimes. I'm sorry that I am not as well versed as others in the ins and outs of this forum.


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      No worries!! Us die hards are here to help out in anyway!!

    28. 09-28-2011 04:13 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by ThatVdub View Post


      Took off my V3's today, and took a pic for ya.
      WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I have never seen that on a 4motion car in my life and trust me i have seen/work on a few!

      By the way the ELSA pic you showed above relates to the bolts/washers holding the prop to the Haldex diff not the "nuts" you have on your prop. They look like someone has just added them for some reason, they certainly don't look like VW items??
      Last edited by Slapbladder; 09-28-2011 at 04:17 AM.
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    29. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      09-28-2011 04:59 AM #29
      You need to look more closely next time then.
      Almost every R32 I've been under (plenty) has had some obvious difference between what's
      on the three studs. Here's mine.


      Yes, there's really nothing on that stud, and never has been. No it's not missing anything.
      Even with all nuts removed, the propshaft is still solidly mounted to the front of the "flexible disk" housing.
      Yes, this does not exactly match the diagrams above. Note that the diagram shows no bolts, or
      studs or nuts at all, in these three positions. Looks like they used to rely entirely on balancing
      washers under 2 of the 3 mounting bolts. Now the three mounting bolts are all identical ,
      and the balancing weights are nuts and washers mounted on the studs.

      Note also that the propshaft itself has some balancing weights welded onto it.

      Again, see the text of the VW TSB back in Feb 2004 posted here http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1561609
      It references nuts, and washers, consistent with what we see on our R32s.

      ian
      Last edited by Daemon42; 09-28-2011 at 05:03 AM.

    30. 09-28-2011 05:59 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Daemon42 View Post
      You need to look more closely next time then.
      Almost every R32 I've been under (plenty) has had some obvious difference between what's
      on the three studs. Here's mine.


      Yes, there's really nothing on that stud, and never has been. No it's not missing anything.

      ian

      Same here Slap my prop has always just had two balancing nuts on the three rear prop bolts.

      Also Slap if a prop shaft is just a tube with machined ends and does not need balancing why has VW welded small plates to the prop to balance it as shown in Ians picture?
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    31. 09-28-2011 06:36 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by climiefish View Post
      Same here Slap my prop has always just had two balancing nuts on the three rear prop bolts.

      Also Slap if a prop shaft is just a tube with machined ends and does not need balancing why has VW welded small plates to the prop to balance it as shown in Ians picture?
      I am saying the prop is balanced already without the need to add anything....i.e. the plates

      as i said all the 4mo's I have been under which is alot have not had the nuts on the bolts.....the bolts have all been long enough to just screw in to the donut without over hang on the rear.
      Last edited by Slapbladder; 09-28-2011 at 06:38 AM.
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    32. Member M00NEY's Avatar
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      09-28-2011 08:01 AM #32
      Slap, are you in the US? If not, I wonder of this is something different for the US spec vs the Euro spec?

      I can't imagine them using different parts for the prop shaft or linkage, but perhaps that is where the difference lies?

      I mean here we have first hand experience on both sides if the fence... It could certainly be coincidence of what you've seen vs what others seen, but perhaps?

      Also, do the ones you've seen have said weights on the shaft itself?
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    33. 09-28-2011 08:20 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by M00NEY View Post
      Slap, are you in the US? If not, I wonder of this is something different for the US spec vs the Euro spec?

      I can't imagine them using different parts for the prop shaft or linkage, but perhaps that is where the difference lies?

      I mean here we have first hand experience on both sides if the fence... It could certainly be coincidence of what you've seen vs what others seen, but perhaps?

      Also, do the ones you've seen have said weights on the shaft itself?
      Hi in the UK...

      The shafts certainly have had the weighted plates on which is the norm....i have just not personally seen the nuts on the bolts like that.....4motion cars i have looked at/worked on are MK4 4motion/r32/audi s3/skoda octavia/audi tt etc etc

      ETKA below from a 2003 4motion Golf/R32. You will notice that the bolts for prop to donut and donut to Haldex are different but only because of the washer depth. No mention of longer bolts with nuts and certainly no mention of nuts in the diagram.

      Last edited by Slapbladder; 09-28-2011 at 08:36 AM.
      MK4 R36 x Precision 6776 Turbo = Large Grin

    34. Banned ThatVdub's Avatar
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      09-28-2011 12:01 PM #34
      There is a difference btwn missing nuts and/or washers than missing bolts.
      Missing bolt is still

    35. Member Daemon42's Avatar
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      09-28-2011 12:07 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Slapbladder View Post
      Hi in the UK...
      i have just not personally seen the nuts on the bolts like that.....4motion cars i have looked at/worked on are MK4 4motion/r32/audi s3/skoda octavia/audi tt etc etc
      Well then, you've learned something new.
      Around here this is the way it is. I remain skeptical that there really a difference
      between US R32s and EU R32s in this regard though, but could certainly
      see there being a difference between R32s and Audi TTs (wouldn't be the first significant diff)
      or other older Haldex based cars.

      Given that the propshaft already has balancing weights on it, it's certainly possible that the
      nuts/washers aren't actually there to balance the propshaft itself, but to balance the
      flexible coupling, but regardless VWoA has made it clear that they're are in fact balancing weights.

      ian

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