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    Thread: Worlds most advanced production car engine.

    1. Banned 100% Euro's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 04:57 PM #1
      It work today one of my fellow tech's was talking about how he thought that the LS9 that is in the ZR1/CTS-V is the worlds most technologically advanced engine. I was laughing inside but asked him why, he mentioned the smooth cylinder deactivation. He is a very pro-american vehicle type of guy even though we are an import repair shop, I quickly said the first motor that came to my mind which is the Quad Turbo W16 in the Veyron. He said yeah but its over a million dollars. So I know he isn't right, and I'm probably not either. I also know that there is no definitive answer. But this got me interested in other peoples opinions. What do you guys think is the worlds most technologically advanced production car engine? I vote W16. Also please give some reasoning. I will add mine when I get off work.
      Last edited by 100% Euro; 09-27-2011 at 05:06 PM.

    2. 09-27-2011 04:58 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by 100% Euro View Post
      What do you guys think is the worlds most technologically advanced production car engine? I vote W16.
      The Veyron is no longer currently in production, so vote again.
      Bowtie wearing, tattooed, Mustang driver

      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      I was more annoyed with the implication of being a Browns fan.

    3. Senior Member JustinCSVT's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:00 PM #3
      Your friend is an idiot. The LS9/LSA don't have cylinder deactivation.

      It's really not all that advanced either(compared to say the new M5 engine) which in some cases is a good thing.

    4. Banned 100% Euro's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:03 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by cougar View Post
      The Veyron is no longer currently in production, so vote again.
      It does not have to be current.

      Quote Originally Posted by JustinCSVT View Post
      Your friend is an idiot. The LS9/LSA don't have cylinder deactivation.
      That's what I thought too. I knew the Hemi did but I had not researched this motor enough to know so I just believed him. But friend is a little strong in this case.

    5. 09-27-2011 05:03 PM #5
      LF-A? Or probably the 599 GTB Engine

    6. Banned 100% Euro's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:07 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by flat6guy View Post
      LF-A? Or probably the 599 GTB Engine
      Why?

    7. 09-27-2011 05:08 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by 100% Euro View Post
      Why?
      because

      racecar

    8. Member Blonde Guy's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:08 PM #8
      How about one of these?

      http://wardsauto.com/reports/2011/tenbest/

      What makes an engine advanced? I like that the motor in the Leaf got one of the 10 spots.

    9. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:09 PM #9
      I'd argue that the Veyron engine isn't that advanced, given that any a-hole can throw money, cylinders, and turbos at an engine and get a super-high output.

      Real advancements come when there are constraints present, IMO.

      I'd also argue that while the LSX might not be the most advanced, it is an excellent example of taking a relatively modest base and making the absolute most out of it. Is that "advanced?" I dunno.

    10. 09-27-2011 05:13 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 100% Euro View Post
      It does not have to be current.
      Fair enough.. . If we're talking truly "advanced", I think the 458 engine would be above the Veyrons. It's one thing to extract 1000 horsepower out of an 8L 16-cylinder engine with four turbochargers... it's an entirely different sort of "advanced" when you have 560hp coming out of a v8 nearly half the size without any forced induction.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
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    11. Member KeiCar's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:14 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Real advancements come when there are constraints present, IMO.

      .
      That makes me think of sport bike engines. They must be a certain size and weight (roughly), so their is your constraint. The fact that they make a LOT of power in such a small package and are constantly being revised, more so then car engine life cycles. A modern 600 or 1K CC bike motor is my vote... Honda, then maybe Yami and Suzuki...


      Edit: Poop, I just saw "CAR" engine in the title....

      F it, I keep my answer the same... wanna fight.
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    12. 09-27-2011 05:15 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by 100% Euro View Post
      Why?
      599 GTB
      N/A 6.0 V12
      612hp @7.6k
      8.4k redline
      448 lbs tq

    13. Member jamerican1's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:18 PM #13
      Uh duh... 1.8t

      /thread.
      Unf*ckwithable

    14. 09-27-2011 05:18 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by 100% Euro View Post
      Why?
      599 GTB
      N/A 6.0 V12
      612hp @7.6k
      8.4k redline
      448 lbs tq

      The LF-A looks a bit better though..

      LF-A
      From wikipedia

      The Lexus LFA is powered by a 72-degree bank angle 4.8-liter V10 engine equipped with dual VVT-i carrying the 1LR-GUE designation with a maximum output of 412 kW (560 PS) delivered at 8,700 rpm. Its maximum torque output of 480 N·m (354 lb·ft) arrives at 6,800 rpm, 90 percent of which is available from 3,700 rpm. The engine redlines at 9,000 rpm, but with a fuel cutoff set at 9,500 rpm,[49] and is constructed using forged aluminum pistons, forged titanium connecting rods, and solid titanium valves. The V angle of the LFA's V-10 engine is set to 72-degrees (as opposed to the 90-degree V angle present in a Dodge Viper's V-10) to fully balance the firing force from the pistons. This 72-degree angle allows for even firing from the pistons without the use of a split-journal crankshaft, thus improving engine efficiency as well as lowering overall weight. Dry sump lubrication prevents engine oil starvation through high speed corners and lowers the engine's center of mass. Air is fed directly from beneath the hood through a visible slit passing into a dual stage variable intake manifold and then into ten individual throttle bodies before finally exiting from a dual stage titanium muffler.

      The LFA's engineers selected a V10 engine over an equivalent displacement V8 engine for its ability to rev higher,[42] and over a V12 for its lower reciprocating mass,[10][42] allowing for more rapid engine response. Lexus claims their engine can rev from idle to its redline in 0.6 seconds and an analog tachometer needle could not accurately track the LFA's changes in engine speeds. This necessitated the use of a digital tachometer which can instantly display engine speed.[50] The engine reportedly weighs less than the manufacturer's own 3.5-liter 2GR-FE V6 engine. Engineers attempted to make the engine sound like that of a Formula One car with high revs, while at the same time maintaining reliability and vibration control. Along with other manufacturers such as Ferrari, Toyota had produced their own F1 engines and chassis designs.[9] The exhaust note has been described by Toyota engineers as the "roar of an angel",[51] and a US television spot later used the engine sound to shatter a champagne glass via resonance frequency.[52]

      The powerplant gives the LFA a power-to-weight ratio of 5.9 lb/hp and enables it to reach a top speed of around 325 km/h (202 mph).[53] Like the IS F Yamaha co-developed the engine cylinder heads. The engine exceeds Euro V emissions. The engine is installed with a front mid-engine placement.[54] According to Chief Engineer Haruhiko Tanahashi a front engine layout was selected instead of a mid engine layout as it is inherently more forgiving dynamically, affording less experienced drivers a wider safety net.[55]

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      09-27-2011 05:27 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by KeiCar View Post
      That makes me think of sport bike engines. They must be a certain size and weight (roughly), so their is your constraint. The fact that they make a LOT of power in such a small package and are constantly being revised, more so then car engine life cycles. A modern 600 or 1K CC bike motor is my vote... Honda, then maybe Yami and Suzuki...


      Edit: Poop, I just saw "CAR" engine in the title....

      F it, I keep my answer the same... wanna fight.
      Sportbike engines don't have to be nearly as reliable as car engines and can have extremely peaky powerbands with no low-end torque since they don't have to move much weight around. Car engines have to last hundreds of thousands of miles while sportbike engines don't last anywhere near that long. Car and bike engines are apples and oranges.

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      09-27-2011 05:28 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by jamerican1 View Post
      Uh duh... 1.8t

      /thread.
      Including the 1.8T is just unfair.

    17. 09-27-2011 05:32 PM #17
      Lots of talk about hp/L here. That would not be high on my list of what makes an engine "most advanced".

    18. Member 71DubBugBug's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:43 PM #18
      I have a feeling its going to be something german

    19. Member 302W's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:48 PM #19
      I guess that's a good question, I have no idea how to answer it and disagree with everything everyone has posted

    20. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 05:55 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I'd argue that the Veyron engine isn't that advanced, given that any a-hole can throw money, cylinders, and turbos at an engine and get a super-high output.
      i think its interesting that it is in fact able to produce all of that power in an actual vehicle and not just in a dyno cell... given the cooling/traction/durability/drivability constraints of using an engine that wild in a real vehicle, having it work with a/c, in traffic, etc.

      i would agree with you if vw produced some massive wild engine with lots of turbos and said - "here, we ran this in a couple of full load pulls on the engine dyno. sweet torque curve, huh?"

    21. 09-27-2011 05:58 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      i think its interesting that it is in fact able to produce all of that power in an actual vehicle and not just in a dyno cell... given the cooling/traction/durability/drivability constraints of using an engine that wild in a real vehicle, having it work with a/c, in traffic, etc.
      Yeah, but are those features of the engine itself, or of what's around the engine? I'd argue it's more the latter.
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    22. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 06:04 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      I'd argue that the Veyron engine isn't that advanced, given that any a-hole can throw money, cylinders, and turbos at an engine and get a super-high output.
      But nobody other than Bugatti can make one that also is smooth, quiet, tractable, and everyday car reliable. It's in a class of one.

      Going on the original question, honestly the most technically advanced (reasonably priced) engine will come in any diesel that meets current US emission standards. That's where the cutting edge is.

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      09-27-2011 06:04 PM #23
      i think for me it will be the 0.9 TwinAir from Fiat

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      09-27-2011 06:05 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by cougar View Post
      Yeah, but are those features of the engine itself, or of what's around the engine? I'd argue it's more the latter.
      it has a lot more to do with the engine than youd think.

      this is the case with any engine, but given the fairly unique characteristics and high power output of the veyron engine, i think that makes this much more impressive than just bolting a huge power output lump into a 4wd car with an adjustable wing.

    25. 09-27-2011 06:12 PM #25
      The Veyron's engine is just a bigger version of VW W12, the W12 is made from the pairing of 2 VR6. Even when it debuted, the Veyron's engine wasn't all that technologically advanced, the package around it was and still is though.


      Right now it's hard to pick any one engine above another as being the clear winner in the technology department. If I had to choose an engine, i'd probably start looking at hybrid and diesel powerplants. Those fields seem to have made the most noticeable gains lately. Porsche's KERS and Mazda's Sky-Active D comes to mind.

    26. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 06:13 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by koko12 View Post
      The Veyron's engine is just a bigger version of VW W12,
      No, it's not. It's a clean sheet design. It doesn't share bore spacing or other typical VW engine traits like most other VAG production engines do.

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      09-27-2011 06:23 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      But nobody other than Bugatti can make one that also is smooth, quiet, tractable, and everyday car reliable. It's in a class of one.
      I would say every major manufacturer (and even some small ones) could make a smooth, quiet, tractable and reliable (how reliable is the Veyron engine really?) engine if they were to design it for a car that costs well over $1,000,000

    28. Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 06:26 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Fritz27 View Post
      Including the 1.8T is just unfair.
      Because we all know the 2.0T is much better and has no timing belt.

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      09-27-2011 06:31 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      I would say every major manufacturer (and even some small ones) could make a smooth, quiet, tractable and reliable (how reliable is the Veyron engine really?) engine if they were to design it for a car that costs well over $1,000,000
      Lets play the devils advocate in this one.. soo my question is.. umm.. why haven't then ? Oh right. Because they can't or don't have the funds.

    30. 09-27-2011 06:35 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by CabrioVR View Post
      Lets play the devils advocate in this one.. soo my question is.. umm.. why haven't then ? Oh right. Because they can't or don't have the funds.
      Because they don't have a crazy CEO who says "I don't care what it costs, build it."
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      09-27-2011 06:38 PM #31
      how about the R35 GTR engine.

      about the only engine that is assembled in a hermetically sealed chamber, no? that doesn't necessarily mean it's the most advanced, but i'd say it proves there is plenty going for it to be built in such a manner.
      welcome to the layer cake

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      09-27-2011 06:41 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      I would say every major manufacturer (and even some small ones) could make a smooth, quiet, tractable and reliable (how reliable is the Veyron engine really?) engine if they were to design it for a car that costs well over $1,000,000
      Why aren't they then? VAG has the engineers and the cash flow to fund such a project.

      You could say that maybe only Toyota could fund such a crazy product in these times and we all know they won't.

    33. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      09-27-2011 06:47 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by thetopdog View Post
      I would say every major manufacturer (and even some small ones) could make a smooth, quiet, tractable and reliable (how reliable is the Veyron engine really?) engine if they were to design it for a car that costs well over $1,000,000
      They why don't they? Considering every single super duper ultra edition Veyron sells out easily (they've sold many more Veyrons than they originally planned), there's clearly a market for a car of this caliber.

      And the Veyron's engine is amazingly reliable. The level of quality control and technical requirement is on a level near Formula 1. I've never seen a production car that's anywhere near that.

    34. 09-27-2011 06:49 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      No, it's not. It's a clean sheet design. It doesn't share bore spacing or other typical VW engine traits like most other VAG production engines do.
      it's the same technology just that one is a W12 and the other a W16. Google some of the videos on the constructions on these engines and you can clearly see it.

    35. 09-27-2011 06:51 PM #35
      If we consider propulsion as a whole it is by far and away the Volt.

      If just a combustion engine... VR38DETT, LS7, or new M5 Twin Turbo V8. Ferrari, Lambo, other supercar engines don't impress me because they aren't reliable for the long haul with the kind of power they create. Those cars rarely see over 30k mi and when they do they aren't reliable or have absurd maintenance (even more than the VR38). It remains to be seen if the VR38 and M5 V8 will be, but going by each companies track record they should be.

      The LS7 is the most advanced pushrod motor ever to come from a factory.

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