5x8 bathroom remodel: looking for feedback

[spockcat]

Please explain how you can enter a 5x8 bathroom and NOT see the toilet immediately no matter where you place it?

Besides, it's a wall hung toilet. When you look into the bathroom from the kitchen, you'll see the shower enclosure and wall-hung lav, not the wall hung toilet. It's one less step to the toilet if you have to take an emergency power dump.

I have the toilet there so I have a place to put the toilet paper dispenser. If the toilet is in the middle between the shower and the lav, there is nowhere to put toilet paper. The toilet is 21" off the wall. This way, I have a 2'6" wall to mount it on so I don't have to reach back for it.

Edited:
I'd add that the usual reason the lav is closest to the door in a standard 5x8 bathroom layout is because it's the only way to get swing room for 3'0"-ish door and most people want to put the biggest door possible in their bath just in case they need to deal with a wheelchair some day. If you put the toilet closest to the door, the door will hit the toilet. If you go with a smaller door, it will still bash you on the knees if someone opens it while you're sitting on the toilet.

I have a pocket door. I don't have that problem.

Is there some reason why you don't want to put the sink next to the door, then the toilet and finally the tub? And if you are going to handicap/elderly why not use a curbless shower rather than a tub? Or is it the only bath in a multi bedroom house and you figure that you need a tub?

Once you put the sink first, you probably would no longer need to use a pocket door too.

[GeoffD]

Is there some reason why you don't want to put the sink next to the door, then the toilet and finally the tub? And if you are going to handicap/elderly why not use a curbless shower rather than a tub? Or is it the only bath in a multi bedroom house and you figure that you need a tub?

Once you put the sink first, you probably would no longer need to use a pocket door too.

I think I already said why I ended up flipping the lav and the toilet.

Please explain how you can enter a 5x8 bathroom and NOT see the toilet immediately no matter where you place it?

Besides, it's a wall hung toilet. When you look into the bathroom from the kitchen, you'll see the shower enclosure and wall-hung lav, not the wall hung toilet. It's one less step to the toilet if you have to take an emergency power dump.

I have the toilet there so I have a place to put the toilet paper dispenser. If the toilet is in the middle between the shower and the lav, there is nowhere to put toilet paper. The toilet is 21" off the wall. This way, I have a 2'6" wall to mount it on so I don't have to reach back for it.

Edited:
I'd add that the usual reason the lav is closest to the door in a standard 5x8 bathroom layout is because it's the only way to get swing room for 3'0"-ish door and most people want to put the biggest door possible in their bath just in case they need to deal with a wheelchair some day. If you put the toilet closest to the door, the door will hit the toilet. If you go with a smaller door, it will still bash you on the knees if someone opens it while you're sitting on the toilet.

I have a pocket door. I don't have that problem.

I'm putting in a cast iron shower base for several reasons:
* I like the look
* It's far less slippery and much easier to clean
* I don't have grout to deal with in the part of the shower that gets wet every day
* It costs far less and makes the tile guy bill much cheaper

It's a cast iron shower base, not a tub. And it's the only bathroom in the cottage.

A pocket door creates extra wall space I wouldn't have otherwise with a door and I get the full opening rather than losing 2" for the door. In a 5x8 bathroom, that matters a lot.

[GeoffD]

Framing for the Velux skylight over the shower


The 7' ceiling over the toilet part of the bathroom. Needed to provide a small landing for the attic stairs


Looking in from the pocket door


The 8 1/2' flat ceiling part of the bathroom above the lav

[1stRabbit]

Lookin good... are you doing any of the work? I always liked skylights and had one growing up as a kid. It's great for additional light during the day, but as a homeowner now I am not sure due to some of the efficiency things i've heard about them and any leak-type issues. Should be a great fit for your bathroom though!

I am jealous of your pocket door. Wish I could have done one in my bathroom but it'd require moving the walls around!

[GeoffD]

Lookin good... are you doing any of the work? I always liked skylights and had one growing up as a kid. It's great for additional light during the day, but as a homeowner now I am not sure due to some of the efficiency things i've heard about them and any leak-type issues. Should be a great fit for your bathroom though!

I am jealous of your pocket door. Wish I could have done one in my bathroom but it'd require moving the walls around!

I'm not doing any of this work. I'm 3h 45min away in my Vermont place. This is the 3rd winter in a row I've had my summer place torn up to the point where it's uninhabitable. My home town best friend is doing all my carpentry work and acting as general contractor. He pulls in all the good local trade guys I grew up with, they email me the bill (often after I badger them), and I try to pay it the same day. When people know you and know you're a fast payer, they tend to juggle their schedules for you.

Skylights have gotten a lot better. The new Velux skylights don't leak the way the 30-year-old ones did. That section of roof is being replaced with lifetime asphalt shingles this spring so it should be reasonably trouble-free for as long as I'm alive. I'm getting one that opens mechanically so there is no motor to break. The glass is argon-filled tempered thermopane with another piece of glass laminated to it to meet hurricane code. A skylight is far less efficient than a window because of the orientation. The U factor of a Velux skylight is about 0.41. R value is the inverse of that so it's about R 2.4. The same glass in a window is more like R 4. I have a tiny cottage and a 5x8 bathroom so I don't have much surface area in my skylight to lose heat. The climate is fairly mild in that part of Massachusetts so heat loss isn't that much of a consideration. No way I'd do it in Vermont.

The original pocket door drove me nuts. It was a 2'0" door. If somebody didn't open it all the way, I'd slam into it entering the bathroom. 2'6" should fix that problem. As I've been going through the place, I have been widening all the door openings. The side door I use as the main entrance is now 3'0". The wall between the kitchen and living room is gone completely. The guest bedroom door is about to become a pocket door with the trim removed to make it 2" wider.

[speaker]

I'm sorry but you should fire whatever architect drew that plan and get your money back. You NEVER put the toilet next to the door and put the vanity in the middle. The first thing you want to see when you walk in a bathroom is not the toilet. That is horrible design.

How would you have done it?

[GeoffD]

How would you have done it?

The conventional layout for a 5x8 bathroom is vanity next to the door, toilet in the middle, tub across the far wall. My Vermont place is set up that way though it's 5x9 1/2 with a door to a sauna opposite the toilet that I never use.

Some other motivations for my layout flipping lav and toilet:

* The 2 1/2 feet of ceiling closest to the pocket door is 7'. It makes more sense to put a toilet there where the lower headroom doesn't matter. I'll have 8 1/2' above the lav where the ceiling is vaulted.

* I'll have more natural light at the lav from the skylight above the shower and the glass block window in the shower exterior wall.

* With a wall mounted lav, I'd have to leave a few inches between the pocket door wall and the lav since you can't butt it up against a wall.

* And, again, I have a 2 1/2 foot pocket door wall to use for the toilet paper dispenser.

A wall-mounted Toto toilet is only 21" deep. It's not going to be particularly visible looking into the bathroom. Your eye will focus on the shower enclosure and, to a lesser degree, the lav. With a pocket door, I also don't have to worry about somebody opening the door and chopping off my knees while I'm on the throne.

[Egilbe]

You moved the toilet so you could hang a toilet paper dispenser? Never thought of a roll stand?

[GeoffD]

You moved the toilet so you could hang a toilet paper dispenser? Never thought of a roll stand?

Why would I want a toilet paper roll stand out in the middle of my bathroom? Besides, it would be next to the shower and get wet.

[Markos]

Why would I want a toilet paper roll stand out in the middle of my bathroom? Besides, it would be next to the shower and get wet.

Meh, don't listen to these people. It's your bathroom and you can visually see the place and understand what makes the most sense. My 5x8 master has the vanity between the sink and the shower. It's not my preference but if you swapped them, I suppose the critical "don't see the toilet first' rule would have been broken. I've seen plenty of houses with the vanity in the middle. My brother's condo is the same way. In his case, the door clears the toilet basin by less than .25". His vanity wouldn't have allowed for a full door. It's not ideal, but with small bathrooms, you do what you can.

Designs are completely subjective. This is a car forum. If a car designer comes in here and and comments on asthetics, using the word "Never", they'd be harrassed.

[Egilbe]

Why would I want a toilet paper roll stand out in the middle of my bathroom? Besides, it would be next to the shower and get wet.

Meh, don't listen to these people. It's your bathroom and you can visually see the place and understand what makes the most sense. My 5x8 master has the vanity between the sink and the shower. It's not my preference but if you swapped them, I suppose the critical "don't see the toilet first' rule would have been broken. I've seen plenty of houses with the vanity in the middle. My brother's condo is the same way. In his case, the door clears the toilet basin by less than .25". His vanity wouldn't have allowed for a full door. It's not ideal, but with small bathrooms, you do what you can.

Designs are completely subjective. This is a car forum. If a car designer comes in here and and comments on asthetics, using the word "Never", they'd be harrassed.

I was just joking. Most places I've seen have had the toilet paper roll mounted to the Vanity if they didn't have a wall. It's not like you are doing:

[DavidJeters]

I like the idea of valued ceiling for a bathroom. Do you know much that adds to the cost of doing the remodeling?

[GeoffD]

I like the idea of valued ceiling for a bathroom. Do you know much that adds to the cost of doing the remodeling?

Maybe $4,000 extra including the skylight.

Here are a few shots I took yesterday. It's ready for the electrician to rewire the bathroom and guest bedroom

This is looking up at the framing for the vaulted ceiling and skylight


The Toto tank for the toilet and the old mirror temporarily placed where the new medicine cabinet is going


The guest bedroom

[Markos]

Looks like quality work so far! The vaulted ceiling should really help open the space up!

I'm really curious about that Toto tank setup. How do you service it?

[GeoffD]

Looks like quality work so far! The vaulted ceiling should really help open the space up!

I'm really curious about that Toto tank setup. How do you service it?

The moving parts are behind a chrome flush plate. You can remove that to service the tank. If it's a more serious problem, you unbolt the toilet, chisel the tile out, and remove the wallboard to get to the tank.

From the Toto brochure-ware:

How is the frame attached?
The frame is bolted to the studs in the wall. Bracing above the carrier, between the studs, is recommended.
Rough-in dimensions are available on specification sheet available on www.totousa.com.

What if the tank components need service after installation?
The fill valve and flush valve can be removed for service at anytime after installation through the access port, located behind
the dual-flush control panel.

How can I be sure the tank will not leak?
The plastic tanks are blow-molded from durable Polyethylene and are pressure-tested to ensure a leak-free installation. There
are no tank seams or threaded supply connections beneath the water line. In the unlikely case that the fill or flush valve should
develop a leak, water will drain into the bowl and overflow into the waste connection, ensuring safety and peace of mind.

How is the water supply line connected to the tank?
The supply line runs along the wall stud on either side of the frame and connects via a standard ½” supply threaded fitting
to the top of the tank. The connection then continues internally from the top of the tank to the fill valve via a supplied flexible
hose.

[Egilbe]

Tom Brady has Toto Toilets in his house

[GeoffD]

Tom Brady has Toto Toilets in his house

Unfortunately, my toilet didn't come with Gisele Bundchen.

[GeoffD]

I now have forced hot water radiant heat in my bathroom floor. The HVAC guy put the extra circulator on my boiler and ran a PEX loop to the bathroom.





I need the Grohe shower valves to show up so the plumber can rough everything in.

[GeoffD]

Meanwhile, the front of the cottage finally got finished. The electricians were in rewiring the guest bedroom & bathroom and installed the sconces on the front of the house.



The plaster guy skim coated the ceiling and walls of the guest bedroom. Prime, paint, trim, and a new carpet and that room is put back together. The plumber is supposed to rough in the bathroom on Monday.

[GeoffD]

The guest bedroom is mostly back together and is skim coated. Prime, paint, trim, final electrical left.





Waiting for the plumber to rough in the bathroom and a 48"x24" glass block window.

[GeoffD]

Pittsburgh-Corning low E glass block window is installed. The plumber is roughing things in.

The plan is to install the skylight centered over the glass block window later. That section of roof needs to be stripped, a plywood layer, and new asphalt shingles as part of installing the skylight. That can wait until it warms up some.

[robr2]

Are you going to try and "age" the white cedar or just let it catch up?

[GeoffD]

Are you going to try and "age" the white cedar or just let it catch up?

I'm really not worrying about it. Nobody looks at that wall other than a 90-something year old lady. It's 10 feet from a stockade fence.

[GeoffD]

The plumbing is all roughed in. The wall hung Toto toilet got tested.

One of the two Grohe shower valves.


The shower drain hole cut in the radiant heated floor


Kohler cast iron shower base

[GeoffD]

Ready for tile!

Shallow closet in the bathroom. You can see one of the Grohe shower valves and diverter valve for the hand shower.






An older shot where you can see the 1" rigid foam behind the closet to deaden the noise in the guest bedroom. The rest of that wall is a new pocket door for the guest bedroom.



Shelves in the guest bedroom behind the shower. You can see the Grohe shower valve, diverter valve, and copper to the hand shower outlet.




The pocket door for the bathroom, recessed light over the toilet in the 7' part of the ceiling


An older shot of that wall. You can see the recessed light over the toilet and the exhaust fan in the 8 1/2' vaulted ceiling.


The skylight won't go in until later as part of replacing the roof but it's ready to drop in. You can see the shelf in the shower, the box for one of the sconces, and a little of the rough-in for the medicine cabinet




The exhaust fan and one of the 3 recessed lights that shine into the shower

[Mk1Racer]

It's getting there Geoff.

[GeoffD]

It's getting there Geoff.

Other than the shower enclosure that has some lead time, I should have a bathroom in a couple of weeks.

I appreciated your feedback about my guest bedroom door. It resulted in me opting for a pocket door. I had a new wall going in framed with 2x8 so it was no big deal to steal the first 2'6" of it for a pocket door. Stealing 5" out of a very small guest bedroom is quite noticeable. I used to have a very small (narrow/shallow) lingerie bureau stuffed in the corner and there's no way it will fit now. I'm going to have to play some small bedroom tricks since I have no spot for a bureau. Probably some cabinets & shelves above the headboard. Drawers under the bed. Maybe steal some closet space for built-in drawers. That's all low priority since it's a lightly used room.

[Mk1Racer]

Other than the shower enclosure that has some lead time, I should have a bathroom in a couple of weeks.

I appreciated your feedback about my guest bedroom door. It resulted in me opting for a pocket door. I had a new wall going in framed with 2x8 so it was no big deal to steal the first 2'6" of it for a pocket door. Stealing 5" out of a very small guest bedroom is quite noticeable. I used to have a very small (narrow/shallow) lingerie bureau stuffed in the corner and there's no way it will fit now. I'm going to have to play some small bedroom tricks since I have no spot for a bureau. Probably some cabinets & shelves above the headboard. Drawers under the bed. Maybe steal some closet space for built-in drawers. That's all low priority since it's a lightly used room.

Glad the door worked out. I hate doors that swing into spaces.

The bedrooms in my house are small as well (my room is 10x12). Not much room for furniture and a queen-sized bed. Opted for a platform bed w/ drawers underneath.

[GeoffD]

[GeoffD]

I was searching a good design and creative art work to renovate my kitchen. I like all things you have decided for your kitchen and I am very impressed by your kitchen’s model.

The kitchen was 2 years ago. The design challenge was squeezing a U-shaped layout that's supposed to be a minimum of 9x8 into something that was more like 8'3"x7'2". I ended up having to sink the fridge, dishwasher, and a lower cabinet into the wall and go with a 21" countertop depth on that side of the U. Vaulted ceiling, white corian countertops and light-colored maple slab cabinets to give the illusion of space.

I'm now faced with the same set of issues trying to squeeze a large shower into an 8'3"x5' space. 2'6" pocket door, wall-hung toilet, wall-hung sink, shallow closet sunk into the wall. The same vaulted ceiling and use of white tile & fixtures to create the illusion of space.



It's sort of like designing the interior of a boat. Anything I touch in the cottage, I have to think about what tricks I can play to maximize the available space.

[GeoffD]

The wall tile is done. Next is paint. Then the 5x5 tile floor.




The soap/shampoo holder and the sconce to the left of the medicine cabinet


Edited:
The medicine cabinet in temporarily




Seeing what the floor tile will look like

[spockcat]

Damn, wish I had seen this thread earlier... ages ago to actually help you out.

This is what I would've done if I were your architect.

Not bad but then he loses his "study" room.

[GeoffD]

I talked about it right after I bought the place 2 years/4 months ago but that part of the cottage is my office. I telecommute and really want the separate dedicated space.

I'm also doing all my remodeling out of cash flow and there was no way I could have done a bathroom the first year. I already had $60K sunk into kitchen, heat, rewiring, plumbing, moving walls around, remedial repairs, vaulting the living room ceiling, and hardwood floors.

That section of the cottage is a 10x10 flat roof. Load bearing. I can't easily touch the two side walls in my office space so it would be very expensive to steal part of the room for a bedroom closet. I already have a couple of LVL beam systems up there to open up the kitchen.

[GeoffD]

It might work for the Harry Potter flue network but you just put my office in my fireplace.

I have a Peerless boiler, hot water heater, water meter, and gas meter in my utility room. That all has to go somewhere.

This is an old photo from when the boiler was installed 2 years ago. My water meter is now to the right of the boiler and the boiler has a 3rd circulator for the radiant heat in the bathroom.

Note the asbestos. That's part of next winter's project...


Like I wrote on the previous page, the walls in my office are load bearing. I have the joists from a 10x10 flat roof sitting on them. To meet the local snow loading code, I'd have to use steel to pull down one of those walls for a bedroom closet.

[GeoffD]

The wall for your old office/bedroom is in the same spot, I guess the pocket door would not be an option for the bathroom/hall in my vers. of your cottage's layout.

Edit: the boiler is a big expensive obstacle... hmmm, move it anyway?

The wall between the kitchen and my office is not load bearing so you can do whatever you want in that wall. A double laminated beam 3 feet into the kitchen holds the roof system up.

Unfortunately, you moved the doorway to the master bedroom. There is a post there that keeps the roof from falling down. The laminated beam system sits on it.