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    Thread: Official turbodiesel how-to swap post.

    1. 10-13-2002 05:37 PM #1
      I figured that there are a few posts out there regarding the use of the turbodiesel exhaust manifold and turbo on a gas VW...but none really answered my questions...so I tried it for myself and here is a rough "how-to" for the swap

      Sorry there arent any pics, my digital camera is a piece of crap and the pics it takes probably would'nt help at all.

      Here are the parts that can be used from a turbodiesel VW:
      -exhaust manifold
      -turbo
      -oil pan
      -oil feed and return lines

      Here are the key points to the swap:

      -You need to flip the exhaust manifold upside-down (boltheads that attach the turbo to the manifold should be facing up) to get it to fit on a non-crossflow head, otherwise the intake manifold wont fit.

      -You need to grind down the exhaust manifold to allow the intake manifold to line up again...If you take the turbodiesel manifold and the stock intake manifold and try to fit them togeather, it'll be really obvious which parts need to be ground down

      -If you dont know how to "clock" a turbo...now is the time to find out!

      -In order to make the upside-down turbo work you have to do some adjusting. the exhaust housing and compressor housing are both held in place by only a few bolts, if you remove them (all you really need to do is loosten them) you will be able to adjust the orientation of both housings.

      -With the turbo upside-down the oil feed and drain lines are upside-down too , which is a bad thing (especially if you want to use the turbodiesel oil lines). Here's how I solved that problem: I took it all apart and bolted the exhaust housing to the manifold (which was bolted onto the head), then I CAREFULLY slid the middle section (with the oil fittings, and NO compressor housing) into the exhaust housing and I turned it until the oil feed hole was pointing up and the drain hole was pointing down. THEN I slid the compressor housing on with the outlet pointing towards the firewall (the only way I could see it fitting good enough to run IC piping). Then I marked the housings with some small scratch marks so when I took all of them back off I would be able to align them correctly (VERY important step!). There really is no way to be able to put the bolts back in with the turbo on the car....

      -So, now that the turbo is all oriented correctly, you may notice a HUGE problem... the shift linkage runs right into the compressor housing It's a easy fix though, just take off the L shaped piece that it runs into and beat it with a hammer until it is flat enough to clear the inlet of the compressor side

      This is as far as I got today, Ill keep ya updated


      [Modified by EuroVeeDub, 5:40 PM 10-13-2002]

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    2. Member Bicycle019's Avatar
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      10-13-2002 07:06 PM #2
      quote:
      Ill keep ya updated

      Please do!

      DCI - Party time, excellent

    3. 10-13-2002 11:14 PM #3
      I'm listening in! This is good stuff. I'd like to turbo my CIS 1.8 and I'm also gathering parts and info for a junkyard swap.

    4. 10-14-2002 04:23 AM #4
      I am doing much the same, here are some picture to go with your story:

      The turbo is missing the downpipe in the pictures. I have a new one that I had built. I'll post more pictures when I take them because it has progressed a bit since these were done. Here is my intercooler:

      Enjoy.


    5. 10-14-2002 01:08 PM #5
      This is a great thread! I have the same setup as you have, but I haven't put it on my car yet. I have the manifold ground down, I have the turbo apart and cleaned. I didn't get the oil lines or pan, so I could use them if anyone has them lying around.

      More detail to the "bash the "L" shaped bracket" part would be helpful. I also wonder how to adjust the stock wastegate for LESS boost. I want to start small and work my way up. Keep the posts coming and THANKS!


    6. 10-14-2002 07:39 PM #6
      <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>More detail to the "bash the "L" shaped bracket" part would be helpful. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      Well, when you get it all situated you'll see exactly what I mean.

      This view is a good one to explain what I mean.The Air Inlet on the compressor housing runs right into the part shown on the bottom of this pic

      You'll see that is is about a 45 degree bend...you need to make it about 20 degrees, that lowers it enough below that inlet to allow you to attach piping for it and and not have the L-shaped deal rub on the piping

      Also, form this view you
      You can see how the middle section of the turbo has not yet been turned around the exhaust housing to allow the oil out line to point down. The only thing different that I did was make the outlet of the turbo point UP, there is plenty of room for an intercooler pipe to clear the intake manifold
      <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I also wonder how to adjust the stock wastegate for LESS boost. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
      As far as I know, the stock wastegate is not adjustable...But I'm really not sure.

      This may be a stupid question, but what is that line for that goes from the compressor housing to the wastegate...does that have something to do with adjusting boost? Maybe you could put some kind of adjustable valve there?

      Better yet... maybe there is an aftermarket adjustable one that willl bolt to the exhaust housing in the stock location?


      [Modified by EuroVeeDub, 7:42 PM 10-14-2002]


      Modified by EuroVeeDub at 11:11 AM 1-1-2005

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    7. 10-15-2002 11:07 AM #7
      Thanks for the explanation EuroVeeDub. I assume you are putting this into an A1 chassis from the shift linkage pics. (BTW, some of the pics are X's) Maybe my A2 won't hit?

      As for your question about the hardline connecting the 2 compressor halves; that is the boost control line for the wastegate. It takes boost from the compressor side and plumbs it to the wastegate. The wastegate sees this boost and open to prevent it from going over a set level. This is the line you would splice into to install a manual boost controller. The thing is, you don't really need a boost controller because the wastegate is adjustable. You need to loosen the lock nut on the adjuster and then use a hex key to adjust the wastegate. I just don't know which way to adjust for LESS boost. I don't want to screw it up and get 10 PSI when I really wanted 2... All help would be apprecaited!


    8. 10-15-2002 11:19 AM #8
      Some more pictures of TD Parts to add to this thread. This setup is/was planned for a MK3 2 liter Cross-flow engine. (So no flipping involved)

      TD Garret T3 turbocharger, TD Manifold, TD Downpipe, all pulled from a 1992 VW Jetta TD

      1)

      2)

      3)

      4)


    9. 10-15-2002 12:24 PM #9
      quote:
      Thanks for the explanation EuroVeeDub. I assume you are putting this into an A1 chassis from the shift linkage pics. (BTW, some of the pics are X's) Maybe my A2 won't hit?

      Hmmm, I dont know...I think it might. You'll have to see. It's really not hard to fix the problem though.

      quote:
      As for your question about the hardline connecting the 2 compressor halves; that is the boost control line for the wastegate. It takes boost from the compressor side and plumbs it to the wastegate. The wastegate sees this boost and open to prevent it from going over a set level. This is the line you would splice into to install a manual boost controller. The thing is, you don't really need a boost controller because the wastegate is adjustable. You need to loosen the lock nut on the adjuster and then use a hex key to adjust the wastegate. I just don't know which way to adjust for LESS boost. I don't want to screw it up and get 10 PSI when I really wanted 2... All help would be apprecaited!

      WOW! Im such a moron... I didnt even think about that hex screw thing on top of the wastegate. I just assumed it was not adjustable
      As soon as I get it all installed and find a boost and air/fuel guage I'll let you know which way to turn it

      **Stupid Question**
      So, the BOV goes between the IC and the TB right. Well, where does the vaccum line that comes out of the top of it go? Can it go anywhere in the cold-side piping? Or does it need to go somewhere specific to work correctly?

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    10. 10-15-2002 12:41 PM #10
      quote:
      **Stupid Question**
      So, the BOV goes between the IC and the TB right. Well, where does the vaccum line that comes out of the top of it go? Can it go anywhere in the cold-side piping? Or does it need to go somewhere specific to work correctly?

      Do you have a pic of the BOV you are using? I don't have one yet. I have been looking for an old used 1.8T diverter valve.. etc.. Okay, I am not certain about this (and no question is stupid) but here's the way I understand it. The Bov vacuum line needs to be connected to manifold pressure (your brake booster line is a good place I think). This way when you are on boost, the manifold pressure is helping to hold the valve closed and keep your boost in. As soon as you let off the throttle you get a large spike in boost from the TB to the compressor. At the same time you get a vacuum in the manifold and thus it helps to "pull" the BOV open to relieve the pressure of this spike. I could be totally wrong, but if so somebody please chime in and correct me!

      About the pics above; I had a turbo like that one and the wastegate was NOT adjustable. Now I have the earlier style one. Thanks for the post!


    11. 10-15-2002 12:49 PM #11
      quote:

      About the pics above; I had a turbo like that one and the wastegate was NOT adjustable. Now I have the earlier style one. Thanks for the post!

      I must have an earlier one too then. I just looked at it and there is a little retainer nut and a little hex-inset screw to adjust it. I think loostening it sets it to a lower psi.

      If you think about it... when you tighten the little hex screw, you are compressing the spring. Which, in return, would make it require more boost to open. Make any sense??

      As for the BOV... I'm using a DSM Gen1 BOV, with the factory IC elbow it mounts to (VERY NICE...now I dont have to weld a damn flange to some piping!). I guess I could either plumb it right to the intake manifold OR I could use the brake booster right?

      Thanks for your input!
      -Drew

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    12. 10-15-2002 12:51 PM #12
      By the way... If anyone wants an older turbodiesel turbo with the adjustable wastegate, I have an extra in VERY good shape
      Relax, it's just the internet.

    13. 10-15-2002 10:42 PM #13
      Not related, but I saw Chapel Hill and had to say something. I graduated in '99. Go Heels. Do you work at the autism center in Chapel Hill? I knew a bunch of people that worked there.

    14. 10-15-2002 11:35 PM #14
      The BOV is supposed to be mounted as close to the throttle body (between it and the intercooler or turbo) and the vacuum line does indeed supply a feed from the intake manifold. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the diesel downpine won't fit with the turbo and exhaust manifold flipped and put on a gas motor. It either hits the block or the firewall. I had one built that is much nicer and much larger:

      And this give an idea of the lift from my Drake camshaft:

      http://photo.msn.s8.com/MS8zLzEwMzQ4...g.jpg&#91;/img]

      And the porting and polishing:

      Sorry for the massive number of pictures here, hope those with dial up aren't too mad. I also have some pictures of the grinding required to make it all fit if anyone is interested.


      [Modified by dazed&confused, 4:39 AM 10-16-2002]


    15. 10-16-2002 12:32 PM #15
      quote:
      Do you work at the autism center in Chapel Hill? I knew a bunch of people that worked there.

      Nope, my wife does every now and then though. She's studying to become a board certified ABA VB consultant
      Relax, it's just the internet.

    16. 10-16-2002 12:37 PM #16
      quote:
      One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the diesel downpine won't fit with the turbo and exhaust manifold flipped and put on a gas motor. It either hits the block or the firewall

      Youre right, and that IS a good point...I was hoping that I could use it to at least drive to the muffler shop to get a nice one made, but no dice The elbow attaches at the wrong angle completely

      Looks like im gonna have to find somewhere that sells the bends (summit, jegs, ect...) and line em up and get them welded

      Also...there is no place for the 02 sensor

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    17. 10-16-2002 01:16 PM #17
      Dazed & Confused,

      That exhaust downpipe looks great! Are you interested in making another one for your fellow swappers? That looks like the exact one I'd need for my setup. The only thing I would worry about would be the lack of a flex joint.


    18. 10-16-2002 05:26 PM #18
      Ditto that, Ill buy one from ya too Let us know
      Relax, it's just the internet.

    19. 10-16-2002 10:57 PM #19
      All I used was prebent piping from a welding shop, which is much heavier than exhaust tubing. Most of the heat is in the exhaust manifold, turbo, and downpipe and I'm not sure that exhaust pipe would be strong enough. For an exhaust flange, I simply cut one off of a header for a Chevy small block that I had laying around (it was garbage anyways). To allow fo flex, there will be a 2.5" diameter flex pipe directly after the downpipe, welded into the exhaust. Then the flange for the turbo side was made. I bolted it to the turbo, placed the downpipe where it needed to be, and welded it up. The problem wih custom making them for others is that there is no gaurantee that they are right. On mine, it had to dump in just the right place, with very little room for for error. It actually took a bit of test fitting to get it right. In theory, if yours were the same application (type of turbo, manifold, car, etc...) then I should be able to make exact copies and have them fit I quess. Just out of curiousity though, what would they be worth to you. Keep in mind that they'd be shipped C.O.D. from Alberta, Canada (including shipping).

    20. 10-17-2002 01:08 PM #20
      quote:
      I quess. Just out of curiousity though, what would they be worth to you. Keep in mind that they'd be shipped C.O.D. from Alberta, Canada (including shipping).

      I have no idea? How much materials do you have in them? I'm sure you could get over $100 for them, but I don't know if much more than that. That would be a great deal if you paid $15 for parts.. of course if your parts were $120 then... One improvement you could make would be to weld in the oxs bung somewhere up close to the turbo outlet. This would help all of us 1 wire O2 sensor users. Then when you cut the cat off to install the flex pipe, you wouldn't need to worry about the O2.


    21. 10-17-2002 08:01 PM #21
      WOW, I had no idea so many of us were doing this conversion. I was hoping someone could take a picture of the adjustable wastegate and put it on here.

      Also I think mine is not adjustable and I was wondering what the other vaccum line coming out of the wastegate is for? It seems to me like if you put another manual boost controler here aswell as in the hard line you would be able to close off the air going out this line and lower the boost? This is assuming that boost flows through this line back to the inlet. Can someone tell me what this is for.
      thanks
      Sandy"(I have all the parts but piping an blow of valve if anyone has a blow off valve let me know)


    22. 10-17-2002 08:30 PM #22
      The place for an O2 sensor is something that I had planned on doing but just haven't gotten around to yet. Mine will also have a spot for the probe for my EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) Gauge as well. Cost of materials is something that I will have to figure out because the material for the flange on the turbo side I had kicking around as well as the header that donated the exhaust flange. The piping I had to buy, but it wasn't too bad. I'll figure it all out and then decide. Off topic question though. Does anyone have any idea why the pictures that I post will work for a couple of days and then turn into little red X's? It's quite frusterating because I don't want to re-post them every other day.

      Here, let's try this instead:

      http://groups.msn.com/TurboRabbitProject/shoebox.msnw

      All of my pictures should be here. I tried this in the testing forum, so here's to hoping that it'll work on this page to.


      [Modified by dazed&confused, 4:39 AM 10-18-2002]


    23. 10-18-2002 01:29 AM #23
      is the t3 inlet flange on the diesel manifold the same as other t3's? i thought that t3 designated the type of inlet flange, am i right?

    24. 10-19-2002 01:47 AM #24
      I'm not sure actually. I have two turbos off of VW diesels, one Garret and one KKK, and the exhaust flanges are identical. A friend of mine has a Garret from a Plymouth product, and there are some differences between his and mine.

    25. 10-19-2002 06:05 PM #25
      Well, just an update. I ground down my exhaust manifold today, things should definetly bolt up now on the head I also cleaned all the ports out (5 total) on the manifold with a few of those cone-shaped sandpaper looking doohickeys (the ones you use to port and polish heads and stuff). It's all clean in there now and the surfaces are nice and smooth

      Now to get a downpipe ......

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    26. 10-21-2002 11:41 AM #26
      Bump for this thread! Also, what kind of BOVs are you folks going to run? I've been searching in the classifieds for a while and nothing is reasonable. Ebay has a few for under $30. Will just about any generic one work? I'm looking at a used one from a supra. (Yes, I realize that you need to plumb it back into the intake unless you want flames...) (Yes, I want flames..)

    27. 10-21-2002 12:06 PM #27
      I am gonna use a DSM Gen 1 BOV. I got it on eBay for around $30 and it came w/the piece of piping that it mounts to (which happens to be the same size as the outlet on my Probe IC) and 4 ft of silicone hose. I think I got a pretty good deal

      Where can I get some good inexpensive piping for my downpipe and IC piping? (besides Summit or Jegs)

      Relax, it's just the internet.

    28. 10-21-2002 10:04 PM #28
      I just got a second diesel turbo today. So now I have a garrett and a kkk(today's).

      Does anyone know how much stock boost these turbo's put out?

      Are these turbo's much different? The garrett is a fair amount bigger than the kkk.

      I was thinking I would use the kkk first due to the adj. wastegate. Any thoughts or experiences?
      thanks
      Sandy


    29. 10-22-2002 12:13 AM #29
      They should be somewhere around 10 psi of boost I believe. The KKK can be turned as low as 8 psi from what I've been told, but I haven't tried yet. I'm using a TurboXS Type S blow off valve, but thinking of trading it for an RFL model.

    30. 10-22-2002 12:46 AM #30
      OK, I have been reading this thread since it pretty much started, and I am planning to do a 2l turbo project using a td. From what I'm hearing on this thread the garrett turbo charger is non adjustable while the kkk is. What I don't get is why this is such a big deal? You can just buy a 15 dollar manual boost controller, correct me if I'm wrong but I was told this from my buddy that turboed his 16v rocco. Its just a simple install between the vacum line on the intake housing to the wastegate actuator. And this is cleary seen in the pictures of the garrett turbo picuted in a earier reply. Also from what I was able to find out from my research is that the garrett turbo is not a t3 as someone stated earier, it is actually a gt15 which is pretty small but has an internal wastegate. But from what I read on the tdi club webpage it makes a constant 12-13lbs of boost with a max of like 15lbs which would be really good cuz it spools so quick. In my opinion the garrett is the way to go if you ever decide to upgrade as you can still use the manifold. And for all the guys that are going to run digifant 1 like I am, I was told to use 30# injectors, as the corrado injectors are not reliable at 180hp and above, and a sns stage 5 chip would be a good idea too.
      I hope that I have given some good information, and if I'm wrong please correct me, cuz that would help my project good smoothly too. Thanks Ben

    31. 10-22-2002 01:34 AM #31
      quote:
      From what I'm hearing on this thread the garrett turbo charger is non adjustable while the kkk is. What I don't get is why this is such a big deal? You can just buy a 15 dollar manual boost controller, correct me if I'm wrong but I was told this from my buddy that turboed his 16v rocco. Its just a simple install between the vacum line on the intake housing to the wastegate actuator.

      People like the adjustable wastegate because they think they might be able to turn the boost down from the stock setting. I was hoping for more adjustment than 8psi but that helps. This is a concern for us that are using the cis system and don't have a microfueler and are concerned about having enough fuel. The inline boost controller's aren't able to turn boost down only up.

      quote:
      In my opinion the garrett is the way to go if you ever decide to upgrade as you can still use the manifold.

      Well your correct here in part. Any 8v turbo manifold could be used with any turbo if a flange is made so it can be bolted on. But your incorrect because the kkk and garrett turbo's have the same bolt pattern for the manifold. And also there are many different garrett and even t3 exhaust manifold bolt patterns.


    32. 10-23-2002 12:27 AM #32
      I cut the wastegate actuator arm (between the flapper valve and the diaphragm) on an old Garrett? that i had. I threaded both of the freshly cut ends, and used a threaded coupler to re-connect them. by disconnecting one end and giving it a spin one way or the other, different boost levels could be easily achieved. I used it to UP the boost, but i imagine you could dial it DOWN, too.

    33. 10-23-2002 06:04 PM #33
      You must have done this on a different garrett turbo because the turbo diesel garretts don't have an actuator arm to cut.

      However there are two lines going to the diaphragm one for boost and the other is a total ???

      If anyone can tell me what this line does I would be very pleased. I think if a valve was put in the line you might be able to lower stock boost? but not sure till I try it.

      Also has anyone tried lowering the boost on a kkk turbo diesel below 8psi?


    34. 10-23-2002 11:29 PM #34
      I haven't tried it yet, but with any luck, I'll be able to give it a whirl soon.

    35. 10-24-2002 09:41 AM #35
      Sorry guys this is getting confusing... I have a couple questions, I have a 1998 2.0L 8v jetta, if I get a turbo and maifold ect. from a turbo desel am I going to have to flip it upside down? How much HP do you expect to have after this? For the people who have already done this, what was your total cost?

      Thanks,

      Spencer


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