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    Thread: Religion and kids

    1. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-05-2011 09:42 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      Interesting. We live in a real nice, older suburban area and the only people I have ever met that go to a church are the old folks. I couldn't name a single friend or aquaintence of ours that does either. I'd say if you go to church, you are definitely in the minority around here.
      Rural Ohio...land of the Jesus Fish stickers.

      Best time to go to the grocery store in my area is on Sunday mornings.

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      10-05-2011 10:52 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      Rural Ohio...land of the Jesus Fish stickers.

      Best time to go to the grocery store in my area is on Sunday mornings.
      I'm in the heart of the Bible Belt.

      I've always said Atlanta is the shiny buckle on the Bible Belt.

      I usually take my pants off to answer the door when Bible thumpers come wandering through the neighborhood casing houses.

    3. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-05-2011 11:17 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      I usually take my pants off to answer the door when Bible thumpers come wandering through the neighborhood casing houses.
      Seems reasonable.

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      10-05-2011 04:09 PM #29
      I have no religious association what so ever. I could go on for days about religion but as we all know, that is an argument that will never end. I grew up going to church, Sunday school, doing hail Marys (I think that is what they are called) before bed, etc... and once I started thinking for myself moved completely away from that.

      As a parent, I hope to give my daughter all views of everything so she can decide things for herself (this isn't limited to religion). I don't want her forming uneducated opinions. So if family members or friends who are religious want to include her in it, I won't fight it. Unless it gets to the point of Jesus Camp, then I will step in.

      I personally think it would be just as bad for me to push my views on her, explain to her why I am not religious, etc... as it would be for a religious person to tell her anything outside of her views are wrong and everything has to be run through god. I would prefer she see both sides and decide for herself.
      Th(e/a)n

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      10-06-2011 10:09 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by BlckBadged_SwissChee View Post
      I personally think it would be just as bad for me to push my views on her, explain to her why I am not religious, etc... as it would be for a religious person to tell her anything outside of her views are wrong and everything has to be run through god. I would prefer she see both sides and decide for herself.
      This is kind of the crux of atheism a lot of religious or former religious people miss.

      Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack of religion. Is not teaching your kid any religion pushing your views?

      Seems to me you cannot be pushing something while doing nothing.

    6. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-06-2011 12:52 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      Atheism is not a religion, it is the lack of religion.
      I agree with this but many will try to push atheism as a religion itself, which it's not.

    7. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      10-06-2011 03:27 PM #32
      Wife is casual Jewish (does some stuff like Chanukah for fun and tradition) and I'm atheist that does the xmas and easter stuff for the same reasons.

      I personally do not feel any child should be exposed to any religion until they are old enough to make well informed choices of their own. How old is that? I dunno, guess it depends on the kid, but maybe early teen years to start getting into those discussions for real.

      We will let the kid figure out what their view of the world is and make sense of it for themselves. Once they are old enough to have a grasp on it they can determine whether an established organization meshes with their philosophies and pursue it from there.

      Actually, on the subject, in choosing names we are specifically avoiding anything from any religious overtones like Adam, Matthew, etc.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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    8. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-06-2011 11:03 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      I'm atheist that does the xmas and easter stuff for the same reasons.
      I only do the christian holiday stuff to appease the wife and family and not create a massive stir with her and her family. If it was up to me, we wouldn't do anything for christmas and easter except go out for chinese food.

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      10-07-2011 08:26 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by FlashRedGLS1.8T View Post
      I only do the christian holiday stuff to appease the wife and family and not create a massive stir with her and her family. If it was up to me, we wouldn't do anything for christmas and easter except go out for chinese food.
      OK, would you kindly GET THE HELL OUT OF MY HEAD!???!!


      I have the exact same attitude about all this...and its my wife's family - her father in particular - that is the most observant.

      The funny thing about it is that my wife is one of three kids - they were all raised as observant Catholics (the Irish is strong in her family), and yet all three kids married someone Jewish Go figure.

    10. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      10-07-2011 10:18 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
      The funny thing about it is that my wife is one of three kids - they were all raised as observant Catholics (the Irish is strong in her family), and yet all three kids married someone Jewish Go figure.
      Four kids in my family, not raised in any religion at all, 3 of 4 married someone Jewish.
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

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    11. Member malv1's Avatar
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      10-11-2011 07:45 PM #36
      The one thing I find comically hypocritical is those of you saying that kids should not be pushed into one religion or another and they should be able to figure it out for themselves but yet those same people are atheists and are pushing atheism onto your kids the same way you complain the religious folks do...

      Oh and I don't belong to any religion really, I was baptized LDS, my wife is Lutheran and both my kids are baptized Lutheran and will be attending parochial school until middle school... Which like some of you, I have decided is the best way for them to decide if it is for them or not...

    12. Member jnm2.0t's Avatar
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      10-11-2011 08:45 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by malv1 View Post
      The one thing I find comically hypocritical is those of you saying that kids should not be pushed into one religion or another and they should be able to figure it out for themselves but yet those same people are atheists and are pushing atheism onto your kids the same way you complain the religious folks do...
      What you seem to have overlooked is that teaching religious abstinence /= atheism any more than teaching sexual abstinence means you cannot ever have sex in your life. It is only asking the child to delay such a major issue of life until they have the wherewithal to make heads and tails of it...

      Quote Originally Posted by malv1 View Post
      Oh and I don't belong to any religion really, I was baptized LDS, my wife is Lutheran and both my kids are baptized Lutheran and will be attending parochial school until middle school... Which like some of you, I have decided is the best way for them to decide if it is for them or not...
      ... which you apparently seem to disagree with. I mean, your kid you do what you want, but you really think this is something a child is able to make an educated decision about? Really?
      I'm just a regular Joe, with a regular job. I'm your average white, suburbanite slob.

      Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit5GTI
      You have cornered the entire 'I hate Ford Fusions' market around here
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio!
      Pure electric vehicles will never fully replace fueled (pure ICE or PHEV) vehicles.

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      10-12-2011 04:38 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by jnm2.0t View Post
      What you seem to have overlooked is that teaching religious abstinence /= atheism any more than teaching sexual abstinence means you cannot ever have sex in your life. It is only asking the child to delay such a major issue of life until they have the wherewithal to make heads and tails of it...



      ... which you apparently seem to disagree with. I mean, your kid you do what you want, but you really think this is something a child is able to make an educated decision about? Really?
      Easy partner.

      Some people have internal religious conflict and view spirituality an an essential part of life, whether for or against. It is a defining characteristic.

      I was borderline agnostic/atheist until I realized I don't even care about it. Hence, I realized I am truly comfortable with no religion at all--atheism.

      My kid is in Baptist pre-K because we didn't get in the public school pre-K lottery, it's cheap ($230/month), it's close to the house, and they do a good job. It bothers me a little they skipped past the entire Old Testament in bible school and went straight for the New, but it doesn't offend me anymore than teaching her about Zeus or Odin.

    14. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-12-2011 07:39 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by malv1 View Post
      The one thing I find comically hypocritical is those of you saying that kids should not be pushed into one religion or another and they should be able to figure it out for themselves but yet those same people are atheists and are pushing atheism onto your kids the same way you complain the religious folks do...
      It's not comical one bit, you simply don't understand it, so you call it comical.

      I'm curious, how many christians/jews/muslims, that go to services daily or weekly, do you know that take the view "I want to raise my kids in a way that they can decide for themselves, when they are older"?

      Hint: Very, very few.

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      10-12-2011 08:23 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by malv1 View Post
      The one thing I find comically hypocritical is those of you saying that kids should not be pushed into one religion or another and they should be able to figure it out for themselves but yet those same people are atheists and are pushing atheism onto your kids the same way you complain the religious folks do...

      Oh and I don't belong to any religion really, I was baptized LDS, my wife is Lutheran and both my kids are baptized Lutheran and will be attending parochial school until middle school... Which like some of you, I have decided is the best way for them to decide if it is for them or not...
      I don't push atheism on my kids any more than I do me being vegetarian (they want meat, they can eat it, that's a decision they can make for themselves down the road if they choose to do so). If they ask questions about religion (which invariably happens because all the kids at school always bring up angels, how wonderful it is that there little hamster is now in heaven, grandma and grandpa keep saying how nice it would be if they went to Sunday school, etc.), I'll answer them as objectively as possible.

      That said, even if I chose to indoctrinate them into religion, which one would I indoctrinate them into? I don't think any of them are right, so that's why when and if they decide it's something they want to get into, they can make up their own minds and pick the one they feel is right for them.

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      10-12-2011 09:26 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I don't push atheism on my kids any more than I do me being vegetarian (they want meat, they can eat it, that's a decision they can make for themselves down the road if they choose to do so). If they ask questions about religion (which invariably happens because all the kids at school always bring up angels, how wonderful it is that there little hamster is now in heaven, grandma and grandpa keep saying how nice it would be if they went to Sunday school, etc.), I'll answer them as objectively as possible.

      That said, even if I chose to indoctrinate them into religion, which one would I indoctrinate them into? I don't think any of them are right, so that's why when and if they decide it's something they want to get into, they can make up their own minds and pick the one they feel is right for them.
      Good post.

      Not to derail, but I like that you brought the vegetarian topic up. We have some vegan friends that won't push religion because they are atheist and feel that kids need to make up their own mind. Yet they have to pack their 3 yo's food everywhere so he isn't exposed to butter or any animal product because they self taught themselves that people aren't supposed to eat any animal products. It annoys the **** out of us.

    17. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-12-2011 09:59 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      It annoys the **** out of us.

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      10-12-2011 10:46 AM #43
      I am not an atheist but have no rush into getting the kids dialed into which religion. In my experience, some kids who were forced into a religion tend to become very rebellious. In today's world of social media and technology, religion is making less sense for young people.

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      10-12-2011 12:16 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I don't push atheism on my kids any more than I do me being vegetarian (they want meat, they can eat it, that's a decision they can make for themselves down the road if they choose to do so). If they ask questions about religion (which invariably happens because all the kids at school always bring up angels, how wonderful it is that there little hamster is now in heaven, grandma and grandpa keep saying how nice it would be if they went to Sunday school, etc.), I'll answer them as objectively as possible.

      That said, even if I chose to indoctrinate them into religion, which one would I indoctrinate them into? I don't think any of them are right, so that's why when and if they decide it's something they want to get into, they can make up their own minds and pick the one they feel is right for them.
      You don't get atheism.

      Not doing anything is not pushing.

    20. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-12-2011 12:42 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      You don't get atheism.

      Not doing anything is not pushing.
      Atheism is rejection of god/theism/deities = doing something.

      I don't disagree with an atheist being able to be apathetic but the simple belief of rejecting deism is =/= not doing anything.

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      10-12-2011 12:59 PM #46
      a - without
      theism - belief in diety/god

      let's keep it simple people. atheism is not a belief system. this isn't debateable

      said that, i take exception to the person suggesting some of us are 'pushing' atheism on our kids. i haven't read anything like that & to the contrary, most of us are suggesting that the acceptance or rejection of religion is something that is best left to a more developed mind than that of a child. promotion of critical thinking /= pushing atheism!

    22. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-12-2011 01:07 PM #47
      let's keep it simple people. atheism is not a belief system. this isn't debateable
      It's most definitely not a religion.

      OTOH you believe there's not a god.

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      10-12-2011 01:32 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by smittyATL View Post
      You don't get atheism.

      Not doing anything is not pushing.
      What I mean is that I do not tell my kids categorically that there is no such thing as gods, deities, etc. and that they should think it's all a bunch of BS. I answer their questions so that they can maintain an open mind, but I do not instruct them (maybe instruct is a better term than "push") that atheism is the "right" answer and they should ignore everything else. Does that make sense?
      Last edited by MeineFolks'wagen; 10-13-2011 at 08:11 AM.

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      10-12-2011 01:36 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Papa Dras View Post
      Good post.

      Not to derail, but I like that you brought the vegetarian topic up. We have some vegan friends that won't push religion because they are atheist and feel that kids need to make up their own mind. Yet they have to pack their 3 yo's food everywhere so he isn't exposed to butter or any animal product because they self taught themselves that people aren't supposed to eat any animal products. It annoys the **** out of us.
      We do the same thing with our kids that we do with religion - we answer their questions and tell them how we feel, but we don't tell them one is more right than the other. My kids consistently tell me they love eating meat, so they get to eat meat. If they decide for themselves one day that they don't want to do it anymore, that's fine. If they keep eating meat forever, that's fine too

    25. Senior Member FlashRedGLS1.8T's Avatar
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      10-12-2011 01:48 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by MeineFolks'wagen View Post
      I answer their questions so that they can maintain an open mind, but I do not instruct them (maybe instruct is a better term than "push") that atheism is the "right" answer and they should ignore everything else. Does that make sense?
      Yes.

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