The one thing I find comically hypocritical is those of you saying that kids should not be pushed into one religion or another and they should be able to figure it out for themselves but yet those same people are atheists and are pushing atheism onto your kids the same way you complain the religious folks do...
Oh and I don't belong to any religion really, I was baptized LDS, my wife is Lutheran and both my kids are baptized Lutheran and will be attending parochial school until middle school... Which like some of you, I have decided is the best way for them to decide if it is for them or not...
they're steppin' on my rhythm and they're stealin' all my lines
Some people have internal religious conflict and view spirituality an an essential part of life, whether for or against. It is a defining characteristic.
I was borderline agnostic/atheist until I realized I don't even care about it. Hence, I realized I am truly comfortable with no religion at all--atheism.
My kid is in Baptist pre-K because we didn't get in the public school pre-K lottery, it's cheap ($230/month), it's close to the house, and they do a good job. It bothers me a little they skipped past the entire Old Testament in bible school and went straight for the New, but it doesn't offend me anymore than teaching her about Zeus or Odin.
I'm curious, how many christians/jews/muslims, that go to services daily or weekly, do you know that take the view "I want to raise my kids in a way that they can decide for themselves, when they are older"?
Hint: Very, very few.
That said, even if I chose to indoctrinate them into religion, which one would I indoctrinate them into? I don't think any of them are right, so that's why when and if they decide it's something they want to get into, they can make up their own minds and pick the one they feel is right for them.
Not to derail, but I like that you brought the vegetarian topic up. We have some vegan friends that won't push religion because they are atheist and feel that kids need to make up their own mind. Yet they have to pack their 3 yo's food everywhere so he isn't exposed to butter or any animal product because they self taught themselves that people aren't supposed to eat any animal products. It annoys the **** out of us.
I am not an atheist but have no rush into getting the kids dialed into which religion. In my experience, some kids who were forced into a religion tend to become very rebellious. In today's world of social media and technology, religion is making less sense for young people.
a - without
theism - belief in diety/god
let's keep it simple people. atheism is not a belief system. this isn't debateable
said that, i take exception to the person suggesting some of us are 'pushing' atheism on our kids. i haven't read anything like that & to the contrary, most of us are suggesting that the acceptance or rejection of religion is something that is best left to a more developed mind than that of a child. promotion of critical thinking /= pushing atheism!
Last edited by MeineFolks'wagen; 10-13-2011 at 08:11 AM.
"Never attribute to maliciousness that which can be attributed to stupidity."
I'm not religious though I consider myself to maintain Christian values. Our daughter came home at age 7 and asked to join a JAM (Jesus and Me) group at a local church as her friends were going. We were happy to let her go, she made up her own mind and gave it up a few years later when they started pulling out contracts and expecting kids to "give their hearts to God". One of her friends stayed on, ours never went back and is now a psychologist who has some very interesting views on religion and the reason some people need it in their lives.
Alexandra New Zealand
Second Tig, 2013, TDi, Auto, night blue, park assist 2, auto lights and wipers, RCD510, fogs, tow pack
Correct, just as showing a kid different religous views, as they're growing up, in no way dissuades them from being a christian.This in no way locks our children down for life though.
You want to put your kid in any kind of educational program, that is your prerogative as a parent.
Last edited by MeineFolks'wagen; 10-13-2011 at 08:19 AM.
I experienced church and religion, heavily as a youth and I am glad I did. I would hope the same for my child
We have talked about it in abstract terms with our children. We are trying to be neutral so that they can make up their own minds when they are older. We have explained to them what "faith" and "beliefs" are, and how people all over the world have different beliefs, and that none of them are right or wrong, as long as they aren't hurting anyone.
When my daughter asked who Jesus was, I told her he was a superhero from thousands of years ago that people wrote about, kind of like Batman and Spider-Man, and that his superpowers were the ability to heal, walk on water, and immortality. My daughter asked "kind of like a mix of Wolverine and Superman?"
I think all religions have a certain ring of truth....in the end the details get everyone's panties in a bunch.
That being said, Ill probably send my kid to a christian school. Good jumping off point. No need to argue over adam and eve vs evolution when theyre teaching the basics like do unto others....
I have been contemplating sending in $30.00 to become ordained in the Church of the Flying Spagetti Monster
As an aside, I do my best to teach my children, ages 7 and 4 to do the right thing, not because someone is always watching but because it is the right thing to do.
I'll throw in my two cents, with the disclaimer that I'm married to a woman who is doing her masters in divinity and say that I am a Christian.
Let me start by saying that my parents didn't become "religious" until I was in my early teens, when they began going to a church that wasn't catholic I followed because I was a kid. I was able to miss church services for hockey, and even occasionally just to go snowmobiling (yeah it's the great white north and I love me some stereotypes). I was baptized catholic which I personally believe didn't do a thing. It wasn't until I hit university that I really had to confront my beliefs and ended up being baptized.
My wife, though she could be ordained and be a minister, has no desire to work in a church. I have no great love for traditional organized religion. That being said I think the principals that are taught at a young age to children can be agreed upon by most as pretty solid. Don't kill, don't steal, help others, be honest... You don't have to be a Christian to agree that these are components of being a good human being. For those reasons alone I don't think you should be hesitant about letting your children go to Sunday school or a church youth group.
To other people who have turned away from the church let me just say you are not alone. The outdated and miss-founded organization that "the church" has become is going to be a thing of the past. I've sat down and chatted (over a few beers) with many people in seminary, and almost all of them agree the church as our generation (sub 35 year olds) has seen is on its last leg. That there will be a re-organizing and a movement back to acting out Christianity and having more liquid organizations with less bureaucracy and more straight up helping people. Back to leading by example instead of trying to shove religion down your throat, or threaten you with "eternal consequences" as a means of spreading what is supposed to be the good news.
I have always been skeptic, but there was a time when I was around 16 that I really believed and it was because of a youth pastor at the time. I started going to the church with my girlfriend at the time, and this guy really had me believing, then we found out he started looking for another youth pastor job, got an offer for more money and he ran. That's when I stopped going and haven't been to a church since.
I'm not faulting the guy for making a good career move, but his explanation to us on his last night as pastor was that God was telling him that he should do this and he had to. Yeah right.
PS: my wife chuckled at the idea of six figure salaries for pastors, and is curious as to what denomination is kicking out that kind of coin?
I see what your saying.
As far as six figures, I personally know of one that is making that. The pastor at the church I attended made 78,000 a year and lived for free in a church owned house. With the perks his income could come close to 100k, mind you this was a medium sized church in a small town.
Here ya go take a look at this, they make coin and almost all churches provide free housing as well. Your wife should look into it.
Last edited by GreenWagen; 12-20-2011 at 12:39 AM.
They are teaching the kids about christmas, hanukkah, and kwanzaa in my daughter's school. So in the recital, they sang songs about each one. I'm fine with the exposure and find it amusing that my daughter has been saying, "thank you my lord" when I give her dinner.