Pit Bull Terriers and other dangerous breeds - are they really dangerous or is it the owner?

[toothpick]

mr miyagi is a 16 year old virgin internet troll who owns a pomeranian.

[TheDarkEnergist]

Oh and from the link Basscase provided which just "proved" miyagi's point (dogbitelaw.com)...I'll leave this here:

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

[PDing]

Oh and from the link Basscase provided which just "proved" miyagi's point (dogbitelaw.com)...I'll leave this here:

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

Which brings up a question and concern.... Is it safe to leave Mr. Miyagi with the Pomeranian? Can someone call up to see if he hasn't been mauled by the small dog? He's so defenseless and shouldn't be left unattended.

[Fritz27]

I'm convinced Miyagi isn't a real person.

[StayGold11]

My killer pit
She just got done mulling my cat, and eating my 2 yr old
Actually she was the biggest lap dog cream puff I've ever seen

[SomeRandomGuy]

Jesus, people... Miyagi is a moron. Why bother?

[phryxis]

Definitely the owner.

My friend's vicious pit is one of the sweetest dogs I've ever encountered.

[Basscase]

Thanks, you provided me even more evidence

http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-stati...y-to-kill.html

Oh...sh!t....you got me man...you got me.





Except you're leaving out one small little fact, how many of those "pitbulls" are actually a Pitbull...or even Bully breed. An American Staffordshire terrier...not a pit, looks a hell of a lot like one. But if a Staffy attacked someone, the news isn't going to say "In today's news a ten year old little girl was attacked and killed by an American Staffordshire terrier"...people wouldn't know wtf they were talking about...so the say it was a pitbull. Or say a mastiff mixed with lab could look an awful lot like a pit....see where I'm going.


Oh and...from "your" article...

In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that:

Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner or handler most often is responsible for making a dog into something dangerous.
An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).
Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be potentially dangerous. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.

While we're throwing links around here's one to chew on.
http://whitney05.hubpages.com/hub/Do...and-Aggression

Pits do attack and kill people....so does every other predatory animal.

I know Miyagi is trolling a little bit...hopefully a lot a bit. But it's comments like these that continue the portrayal of pits as killers.

[redhotdobe]

I mean, you can look it up.. but for SOME weird reason, most of the dog murders seem to be pitbulls... hmmmmm, weird, no?

Not weird. "Pitbull" is not a breed. It's a generic term given to mixes appearing to be of a certain type. Because a "pitbull" is not a breed and has no specific defining characteristics, the media is free to label ANY dog involved in an attack as a "pitbull."

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

And because you don't seem to understand, dog aggression DOES NOT equal human aggression. Bully breeds and terriers have a tendency to be dog aggressive, but that absolutely does not mean they're aggressive toward people.

Anything with teeth and the ability to bite is dangerous. So is ignorance and stupidity.

[Braga_Dub]

[toothpick]

if I had a pomeranian it would be in the kitchen
yapping about being small
while the real dogs hung out with the men in the garage....

[Time for a GTI]

Step sister just bought a pit pup from a breeder (not a dog fighter, not a stray) and it is already beginning to nip at anyone that gets near it.

Hand over your man card, go buy a turtle, and go make some sandwiches for the real men.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

weather is the owners fault or not i dont wanna take the risk of getting someone else hurt. i plan to have children one day so i stick to this little one

zoe is 2 years old and 8 lbs of pure fury!

I've got a St. Bernard, English Mastiff and, now, a Morkie. The kids grew up riding the St. Bernard and she was always happy to oblige. She follows my 7 year old like a king's guard, something a Morkie or Yorkie cannot do effectively.

But I know what you are saying, smaller dogs are definitely easier to have with kids.

Oh and great picture.

[FlashRedGLS1.8T]

Jesus, people... Miyagi is a moron. Why bother?

People somehow think they are going to get anywere with the troll. Can't figure out why.

[NoDubJustYet]

ALL dogs can be potentially vicious... Sure, some show more propensity for agressive behavior. If you do the research on the breed and breeder; and you properly train the dog there shouldn't be issues.

We have a Rhodesian Ridgeback. The breed was developed around 200 years ago to hunt lions. The Brits and Dutch used everything from mastiffs, Great Danes, and indigenous dogs to create the breed. They were used to chase down lions and keep them at bay so the hunters could shoot them.

Our dog is awesome around our kids - she pretty much treats them like her own babies. I've never seen her bear her teeth accept for when a really sketchy dude was at the door.

[ghostsof1985]

Give me one good reason as to why I should change my mind?

So far the only argument anyone has provided is that "this one time this pitbull that my 2nd cousin's uncle's dogs sister's owner was nice and didnt nip."

Miyagi, the reality of the situation is that you're never going to change your mind on this because of a few news stories and you expect us to be able to give you statistics that you're, quite plainly, too lazy to google for your damn self. What's more to the point is that you are so adamantly unwilling to accept anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

And you own a Pomeranian, which, in my experience has been more negatively aggressive than any pit I've ever known.

My friend used to work for a vet clinic as a tech, and one day this guy brought in a stray, red-nosed pit bull. This dog had been found in D.C., shaking, starved at about 25 pounds, bite marks all over her body, a chunk of one of her ears missing and her muzzle bound. This dog, now known as Rain, was used as a bait dog for a ring of pit fighting dogs in the District.

Fast forward ten years, and Rain is one of the most kind, gentle dogs I have ever lived with (her owner the vet tech was my roommate for a year). Rain adores children, has a huge following of people she's quite willing to get in the laps of at the local Starbucks, and the only time shes ever been in anybody's face is to lick them. I have tackled the dog, pulled on her tail, ears, muzzle, you name it, and not once have I ever had any sort of inkling that this dog would hurt anything other than a bowl of food or a chew toy.

The only instance I have ever heard of this dog raising her hackles at a human was towards a guy who was a registered child molester. Dogs can tell who the humans with bad vibes are, you know.

I have two bull breeds myself, as some of you from the pets sub forum/thread may already know, and I can attest to the fact that bull breeds are barely more than lazy, affectionate lap dogs.

Here's mine (note to self: get new lens cleaning equipment and take updated pics):

[Time for a GTI]

Here's mine

Ok. The white and tan on the right. What breed, how old, is s/he full grown, weight in photo, expected weight at full grown?

Nice lookin dog and I've been considering a companion for my minpin.

[TheDarkEnergist]

Jesus, people... Miyagi is a moron. Why bother?

I slept like a Pomeranian last night. My interactions with Miyagi are purely for entertainment. And if he's not a troll and really is that stupid...like I said...I just hope he stays out there in "I go hard Spokane, WA"

[Hostile]

Here's mine (note to self: get new lens cleaning equipment and take updated pics):

Is that a bulldog on the right? He's insanely adorable!

[pwm]

My own personal experience has been the "low class" of society typically owns these dogs as a status symbol. Something to show that they are a badass. The vast majority of pit owns I've seen or talked to tend to have a chip on their shoulder and something to prove by having a "dangerous" dog.

Hell, look at all the rappers and their videos. Almost all of them have pits.

Is it the owners to blaim? I believe it is mostly the dog breed to blame. People, for whatever reason, try to rationalize the dog's behavior by saying it wasn't raised properly. But what they seem to forget is these dogs were created and breed for fighting. It is in their genes to be aggressive and somewhat hyper.

I think this will slowly start changing.

Can the dogs be bad? Yeah...any breed can. Is this dog predisposed to it? No. In fact its the opposite. They are one of the most loyal affection breeds out there who would do anything for their owners. Their owner says be mean? They be mean.

Also, what you see as pits are very rarely pits. They've been bred with countless bigger dogs to try and bring out aggression. Pits are short/squat, and were orignally 35-55lbs...not the 100lb-ers you see today. Responsible breeders are working on bringing the breed back to the standard and cull any aggressive tendencies. Backyard breeders don't count.

But I've noticed a lot of increased exposure (positive) for pits. Animal planet has a bunch of shows, a lot more advocacy groups are popping up, and a lot more yuppies are adopting them. Once that happens, they lose the tough image. My wife and I have adopted a pit and regularly bring her out in public. She's the happiest dog you've ever met and smiles at everybody. I purposely bring her to the little upscale outdoor malls full of J Crews and Banana Republics. The odd person gives me a look, but overall people are becoming desensitized to them.

It'll be another breed after awhile. In the 70s German Shepherds were scary. 80-early 90s? Rottweillers and Dobermans (think of all the bad 80s movies where someone accidentally found themselves in a junkyard...never a pit). Now its the Pit's turn. Every badass on TV has a pit. Don't worry too much. It'll pass and you'll have a new boogie-dog to fear.

I mean, do you have problems with Boxers? They're big muscular dogs with short fur and often have cropped ears and tails. Its always boggled my mind that they get a pass while similar looking pits don't.

[pwm]

Oh, and here's our current. I'll hunt arond for a pic of our last one.

[ghostsof1985]

Ok. The white and tan on the right. What breed, how old, is s/he full grown, weight in photo, expected weight at full grown?

Nice lookin dog and I've been considering a companion for my minpin.

Is that a bulldog on the right? He's insanely adorable!

They are both bulldogs, both AKC Registered pure-bred. On the left is Guinness, a French bulldog, 1.5 yrs old. Shes a runt, fully grown at 15.2 pounds, about 11 or so inches at the shoulder. Tonks is on the right, he's an English bulldog, almost 6 mos. old. He could be anywhere from 45-65 lbs. at full weight. I have picture of his parents, and they're both big dogs, so I expect he'll be on the larger end of that scale.

Bulldogs are wonderful dogs. Great for apartments, super sweet and friendly. Good with other dogs and all people of any age.

Thanks for the compliment, Hostile!

[Doogal]

Banned in the UK along with a few other breeds so have never really come across a Pitbull, not knowingly anyway as some still exist. A few friends have Staffordshire Bull Terriers and they are fine, never had a problem with them, even looked after one of them for a couple of days and ive never owned a dog before so didnt have a clue.

However there have been quite a lot of stories of children etc being mauled to death by pitbulls but then there will be same stories from other breeds, Rottweilers etc, so im going to put it down to the owners.

Im quite glad we have the Dangerous Dogs Act because the amount of people who own a dog as a status symbol is just silly, if we did have Pitbulls and other fighting breeds there would be much much more maulings, no doubt about it.

[winstonsmith84]

My Pit/Aus. Cattle Dog mix ( pit and dingo) is by far the most intelligent dog I've ever encountered. She is also one of the sweetest. When each of my kids came home from the hospital, the first thing I did was put their car seat on the floor and let the dog check them out. Guarding my kids is her mission in life. She sleeps with them, moving from bed to bed and ending up under the crib. When they go out to play, she goes out to play. When they are sick, she snuggles them. She is with my kids every second. She has never in 9 years so much as growled. When I say "sic 'em" she starts wagging her tail and rolls over.

[DISI 2.3T]

There are our little monsters. Just turned a year old Oct 3. Chiquita is on the left and Wasabi is on the right.

As far as pit bulls go. I have had many friends who have owned them and they are all great dogs. I feel like the owner has to do with that 100%. By that I mean it is a responsibility of the owner to recognize a dogs personality and behavior towards other dogs, animals and people and be able to prevent any bad behavior from happening.

[ghostsof1985]

When I say "sic 'em" she starts wagging her tail and rolls over.

[dmonday]

I've got a pit bull, she's a good dog to me, the wife and our son and the neighborhood kids. That being said, she can't be around other dogs....especially after she bit the end of my best friend/brother-in-laws dog's tongue off. In her defense she was meeting his dog for the first time and their dog licked mine right in the face and mine just bit down (she didn't go after the dog th attack, it was just a reaction). I WON'T put her near other dogs anymore, I'm afraid she'll just try to rip any other dog apart. She loves (for the most part) very small dogs like Chihuahua's and likes our cats. I've even seen her running around the backyard with a rabbit in her mouth and she let it go. I've also taken my dog to a local nursing home (when I was working with her a lot) and she was fantastic and the people couldn't believe how good she was....b/c all pits are ferocious.

However I would NEVER let her meet people without me around. I worked for years managing PetSmart's and I'm very good at reading a dogs body language and I know my dogs body language. My dog hates the neighbor across the street, but I think it's b/c she has seen him hit his dogs. My dog also doesn't care for 1 of my brother's and I think it's b/c she smells cigarette smoke on him (the neighbors had a party, they smoke, and one of the people they had reached over my fence and hit her....the cops were called after that and I wish my dog would have grabbed him and pulled him over the fence). I've NEVER seen a mean pit bull inside the stores I worked at, I HAVE seen many mean dachunds, poodles, poms, chows, boxers etc..... Every dog is different. Some dogs get along well with people, others do not....it's not JUST the breed. I don't trust ANY dog until they are showing signs of being ok with me. I'll throw this in there too; if you act scared of a dog, they can sense it, get ready to be bit.

I once was working and there was an older retriever in the store that you could tell recently had surgery (kind of limping, shaved, stitches etc) you could tell it didn't feel well. A pit bull was also in the store, it was just over a year old and playing like a puppy...it was also the biggest pit bull I have ever seen. It's neck was so big it's collar slipped off and over it's head (which was bigger than a basketball). It ran right for the retriever to play and I took off after the pit b/c I knew it woudn't end well once the retriever snapped at it. I dove and grabbed the pit by the back legs just as the retriever snapped and I yanked the pit away. She turned around and wanted to play with me instead (I was SURE I was going to be attacked b/c the pit being surprised). Treat every dog as if they would hurt you, anyone of them could.

[ghostsof1985]

There are our little monsters.

Those are cool looking! What kind of dogs are those?

[mikeh6]

My parents have owned pitbuls for 30+ years and have never had 1 single issue with them. They rasied 3 kids around them plus all of our friends that would come over to play.

it comes down to the owner and the breeders.

look at michael vicks pits(dogs trained to fight) most have been fully rehabilitated

http://www.parade.com/news/2010/08/15-vicks-dogs.html

[DISI 2.3T]

Those are cool looking! What kind of dogs are those?

Dad was a standard poodle
Mom was a lab/beagle mix

Almost labradoodles but they are the perfect size and have lots of poodle traits. The hair is deceiving, when they get wet they are really skinny, especially the boy. There was a liter of 7 and when we got there only 5 were left so we took 2. It really helps that they can keep each other occupied sometimes. Were taking them to the beach for one last time this weekend. They love the water.

[Village Idiot™]

A doberman is the worst. You can see from these few photos that I captured that they're extremely dangerous and not to be trifled with.

[drtechy]

I haven't through this thread, but figured I would share a story to open the eyes of ignorant people who blame pit bulls. This happened about 8 years ago. I brought my beautiful 3 year old female pit bull to a dog park. She was doing great for about an hour playing with all the dogs. Then someone brings a Pomeranian into the park. This dog starts fighting with all the dogs, but of course the owner doesn't give a dam. Well she started going after my dog, my dog tried brushing her off, but it started to bite her. So my dog did what any dog would do, turned around and bit it. Unfortunately due to the size my dog bit the dogs head almost completely off, and killed it with one bite. Then I get arrested, my dog gets brought to the pound. I get sued, and my dog gets put to sleep. How's that fair? This is the reason I won't ever take a dog to a dog park anymore. Remember if the owner doesn't train the dog correctly it doesn't matter the breed.

http://www.stopbsl.com If you are against breed specific legislation check this site out! It's ridiculous some of the laws out there!

This isn't the dog that got put to sleep, but instead the dog my ex wife took from me. Well I let her but still I miss her!

[Hostile]

My aunt had a rescue doberman, he was the biggest sissy. When the doorbell rang he's bark once and run away to hide under her bed. He was a great dog though except when he'd drop his heavy head into your lap or fart and leave the room.

He also didn't have clipped ears so they were big and floppy.

[TheDarkEnergist]

Miyaaagiii....where aaaaaaarre you???

[GolfTango]

I don't give a $hit if it is the owners, I detest pitbulls. Always have.

This just happened a few days ago:
http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/T...130892963.html

A 20-month-old girl was killed after being attacked by pit bulls in an apartment on Leete Street in West Haven on Friday night.

Neveah Bryant was visiting her aunt when she was attacked, West Haven police said.