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    Thread: Volt Pic Post.........High VOLTage or Low? Post pictures and stories/experiences of your Volt or someone's you know or have driven.

    1. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-18-2011 09:41 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Calistros View Post
      Obin:

      Appreciate your careful look at everything. It's what anyone venturing into such uncharted territory should do.

      And, a cursory look at the Parrott situation in california seems to indicate a resounding no for anywhere else in the country for such an expenditure.

      Of course, his situation is unique and favorable in some respects (plus he values the effort he took)

      So the 29 cents/kw daytime puts him in a special class of consumer and he went for it.

      Best use of his money?... eh... he gets to play with this and see what he can make of it.

      And I guess that is the true freedom an experimenter has if they can cough up the bucks.
      Yeah more power to him if he can do it. I guess it would be no different if we were applauding people who could be in a position to make 100 octane gas at home for $1.00 a gallon after investing in $30,000 in pumping and refining equipment. It's cool that people can find a great way to power their electric cars but I'd really like it if there was a real breakdown of ALL their monthly transportation expenditures before and after buying their electric cars.

      We spend about $80 a month in fuel for the Elantra and the car is 100% paid off. The insurance coverage costs about $45 a month. Factor in maintenance and the Elantra costs us about $150 a month for fuel, insurance, and maintenance to own. How long would it take for a Volt to cost us a total of $150 a month for fuel, insurance, and maintenance? Assume that the car costs $40,000 and we'd pay $40 a month for electricity to charge the car. Just for discussion sake how long would it take us to actually save money on a Volt?

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    2. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-18-2011 09:45 PM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by mouseOfMars View Post
      Maybe the Tax credits for Cali?

      Just some quick googling resulted this:
      http://www.californiasolarco.com/sol...r-rebates.html

      "In California, residential and commercial customers receive rebates through the California Solar Initiative (CSI) program and, through 2016, a 30% federal tax credit. Depending on the cost of the system and other site-specific variables, these incentives can typically cover over 40% of the cost of a commercial or residential solar system. "
      How long can they afford to do that?

      http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-deb...ebt-clock.html


      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

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      10-18-2011 09:46 PM #103
      so whats the increase on the electric bill a month for those not using solar energy?
      Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of himself without that law is both. For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I Die, You are forgiven. If I Live, I will kill you." Such is the Rule of Honor.
      SHIFT

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      10-18-2011 09:56 PM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      How long can they afford to do that?

      http://www.usdebtclock.org/state-deb...ebt-clock.html


      obin
      uhhhhh.... well, not to start too big a food fight, but California can probably afford to do it until the rest of us bail them out.....oooooof!

      It's a brand new world out there with the electric avenue.

      anyway... agreed. Total transportation costs prior would be invaluable to look at for these Volt purchases. It appears that some had some pretty hefty gas bills and just said "enough" (after all, the high cost of the car isn't exactly lost forever. There is going to be a resale value of the vehicle, which I don't think you factored into one of your prior comments)

      Others have more of a philosophical take on it.

      Perhaps they don't like money going to Saudi Arabia or Big Oil.... who knows.

      Interesting stuff. I'll keep digging to see the whole story on many of these Volt owners. What makes them tick. Nice thread, by the way.
      Quote Originally Posted by alleghenyman View Post
      All of the rust, bondo, and patchwork done with old street signs gives them the crash safety of a cake decoration.

    5. Member curvedinfinity's Avatar
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      10-18-2011 10:02 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by GoVdubSPEEDGo View Post
      so whats the increase on the electric bill a month for those not using solar energy?
      Something like $30/mo if you drive a lot.

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      10-18-2011 10:07 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by GoVdubSPEEDGo View Post
      so whats the increase on the electric bill a month for those not using solar energy?
      Just shooting a few numbers here gives this

      The volt efficiency is around 3 miles per kwhour

      A person driving say 30 miles electric per day every day would drive about 900 miles electric per month would use about 300 Kw*h of electricity per month.
      if you are paying 10 cents a kw... that's 30 bucks of electric versus probably 4 bucks a gallon times 36 gallons (25 mpg) gives $144 for the gas equivalent.

      (yes, I know you may pay less for gas, but it's been high on the west coast for a long time and it seems we are talking about California here)
      Quote Originally Posted by alleghenyman View Post
      All of the rust, bondo, and patchwork done with old street signs gives them the crash safety of a cake decoration.

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      10-18-2011 10:25 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Calistros View Post
      So the early adopters are wanting to do something different and they have the bucks to vote with their wallet.
      I don't understand why this is so hard to understand.

      It holds true not only for the Volt or Leaf or first gen Prius, but the first cell phone, smart phone, PC, or... residential PV setups, which are really expensive for most anybody other than... people with money. Breakeven on PV systems is measured in decades... especially for those not benefiting from state incentives.

      And to the point of incentives and how long they will endure? This concept is easy, too! Incentives are to motivate sales in order to basically grow the industry, evolve product efficiency, and help reduce impact on resources/environment. How hard is that to understand? Furthermore... it should be obvious that it won't be forever, because the point is... it is designed to bring said technology beyond fruition and into the mainstream enough such that the improvements in efficiency will help sustain sales without the need for incentives (because it is efficient enough to be affordable to more consumers).

      Is this that complex to comprehend?

      The question shouldn't be whether it makes financial sense to the buyer per se, but rather in the long term (compared to other alternatives) is there a point when the development/research/MFG/resources/etc. involved in advancing said technology/"solutions" pushing the bounds of waste... for the society? Does the overall 'cost' to find these tools outweigh the return? Are there other choices that could be considered that doesn't require the massive investment in human thinking and money and time? Because said effort in the end is using energy, too.

      We use energy to develop/evolve technology to... help us use less energy. At what point do we actually push the effort to... conserve/recycle/moderate? That is 'tech' that isn't as complicated to figure out. It requires more planning, discipline, and strategizing than it does invention (i.e. It should be... dare I say... easier?).
      Last edited by uncleho; 10-18-2011 at 10:32 PM.

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      10-19-2011 12:00 AM #108
      On another note. As far as problems with Volts, the display seems to crap out on a few cars (just a few and were replaced on warranty by dealer)




      The second technical issue, reported by a small number of Volt adopters, is the blanking out of the main display, followed by a return to normal functioning in a brief time.

      Losing the speed, battery level, and fuel level displays, as well as other central vehicle functions, is a potentially serious problem with the electronics.
      On this issue, Volt drivers who have experienced this problem are asked to bring their car in for assessment by their Chevrolet dealer.

      The company will provide owners with a free loaner car for the period their vehicle is at the dealer.

      Typically, the electronics in the original driver display unit are replaced to fix the problem. This is fully covered under the vehicle warranty, of course.
      Quote Originally Posted by Blackohio
      Built in boost gauge in the dash. One of my friends at the time saw that turbo was on theoretical empty and asked if we needed to stop and get more turbo. I gave it gas and he was like wait, its full now. Had to quickly explain the process.
      Quote Originally Posted by Calcvictim View Post
      so basically the OP has no clue about anything and just posts out of his ass?

    9. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 12:13 AM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      His entire array is generating a whopping 4.9 kilowatts of power
      Are you sure you're not confusing power with energy? A solar array rated at 4.9 KW of power will produce an average of 21.6 KW/h of energy per day over the course of the year. That means averaging out summer/winter and cloudy/sunny days. 21.6 KW/h a day is nothing to sneeze at, especially if you live in a mild climate and use natural gas for heat in the winter.

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      10-19-2011 12:28 AM #110
      I have to admit, I REALLY like the Volt. At first I wasn't sure about it, but it's definitely grown on me big time. I've never really been too keen on the whole hybrid deal but the Toyota/Lexus system really works for me considering my daily commute to work (which is all city driving and incredibly short). My work has begun installing electric car chargers in our garage and had I not purchased my Lexus I'd have put some real consideration towards a Volt.

    11. Member Assle's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 01:28 AM #111
      Can someone explain this?

      Quote Originally Posted by George Parrott article
      Parrott’s credit with the electric company just accumulates, they never pay it out.
      Does that mean it is a revolving credit where he can accumulate it in the "surplus" now and then just use that as credit to pay for future electricity bills later but he can never get a check for the value of that electricity from the utility?
      "Sometimes wrong is worth the funny." - Billy Gardell

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      10-19-2011 05:32 AM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by Assle View Post
      Can someone explain this?



      Does that mean it is a revolving credit where he can accumulate it in the "surplus" now and then just use that as credit to pay for future electricity bills later but he can never get a check for the value of that electricity from the utility?
      Good question. I was mulling that one over myself.
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      10-19-2011 09:03 AM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by TopDown_ View Post
      Good question. I was mulling that one over myself.
      Here in NJ, your account starts at zero - normally in August. Any extra credit gets you a check back.

      I've had clients with solar panels everywhere, and even after not paying a cent for electricity, got back roughly $1200 every year.

      Although I don't care for GM, I really like the Volt.

    14. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 09:40 AM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by TDIBUGMAN View Post
      I've had clients with solar panels everywhere, and even after not paying a cent for electricity, got back roughly $1200 every year.
      HOW MUCH did those solar arrays cost them? If you paid $8,000 for an array and you get a $1,200 cheque then I'm interested. If you paid $50,000 for the array to get a $1,200 cheque then I'll pass. Do you have more info on this? I'm genuinely interested.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    15. 10-19-2011 09:44 AM #115
      it's worth noting that both solar and battery tech is experiencing huge advances at the lab level. that stuff has to trickle down eventually.
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      10-19-2011 09:44 AM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      We spend about $80 a month in fuel for the Elantra and the car is 100% paid off. The insurance coverage costs about $45 a month. Factor in maintenance and the Elantra costs us about $150 a month for fuel, insurance, and maintenance to own. How long would it take for a Volt to cost us a total of $150 a month for fuel, insurance, and maintenance? Assume that the car costs $40,000 and we'd pay $40 a month for electricity to charge the car. Just for discussion sake how long would it take us to actually save money on a Volt?

      obin
      Oh, Obin, youre making the classic "how do we save money with a new car vs a paid of old used car" argument. You can NEVER save money by buying ANY new car vs an old paid off economy car. Doesn't matter if we're talking a Volt or a Golf or a new Elantra.

      I could compare my paid of BMW 740iL to a new Elantra and show that I can't asve money even though the Elantra gets considerably better fuel economy using the same arguments. But it would still be a flawed argument.

      You have to compare buying a car like a Volt with buying a different new car, like a new Accord or Camry (similarly sized, equipped, and priced) for those people that are going to buy a new car anyway. When looked at that way, you ARE saving money on fuel costs. Plus you're using vastly less foreign fuel and reducing individual point source air pollution.
      I love cars, but the problem is they are like schroedinger's hobby. They're always in a quantum superstate of being both awesome and a huge waste of time and money... until observation momentarily forces them into one state or another.

    17. Geriatric Member Obin Robinson's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 09:49 AM #117
      I get what you're saying about the "we were getting a new car anyways" argument and an electric would theoretically save money. On the other hand I would like to see a cost breakdown of before and after expenditures. Those detailed breakdowns are ALWAYS missing from these electric vehicle analyses. Sure you're paying less for gas with the electric but what does it cost you to upgrade your electric system? What are the future maintenance costs of these vehicles going to be if/when the batteries crap out? Will these things be a nightmare to afford once the warranty runs out? Are they only really remotely affordable if they don't need the batteries or other electronics replaced? It is too soon to know.

      obin
      "We're society's crowbar. They hate us, they never want to acknowledge the dirty jobs they give us to do, but when the job is done they never throw us away - they just slip us back in the toolbox until they need us the next time. And there will always be a next time."-Jim Hooper. Beneath the Visiting Moon: Images of Combat in Southern Africa

    18. 10-19-2011 09:52 AM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      I get what you're saying about the "we were getting a new car anyways" argument and an electric would theoretically save money. On the other hand I would like to see a cost breakdown of before and after expenditures. Those detailed breakdowns are ALWAYS missing from these electric vehicle analyses. Sure you're paying less for gas with the electric but what does it cost you to upgrade your electric system? What are the future maintenance costs of these vehicles going to be if/when the batteries crap out? Will these things be a nightmare to afford once the warranty runs out? Are they only really remotely affordable if they don't need the batteries or other electronics replaced? It is too soon to know.

      obin
      and this is why i appreciate all these early-adpoters to figure out that hell for us. i'm interested in about 5-7 years.
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      10-19-2011 10:52 AM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by Obin Robinson View Post
      On the other hand I would like to see a cost breakdown of before and after expenditures. Those detailed breakdowns are ALWAYS missing from these electric vehicle analyses. Sure you're paying less for gas with the electric but what does it cost you to upgrade your electric system? What are the future maintenance costs of these vehicles going to be if/when the batteries crap out? Will these things be a nightmare to afford once the warranty runs out? Are they only really remotely affordable if they don't need the batteries or other electronics replaced? It is too soon to know.

      obin
      Good questions and of course we haven't even sorted out some of these battery replacement questions for the "lowly" Prius.

      As to the upgrade on the electric, I can just say that the ones I know who have done the 110 charging (charging cord/plug comes with the cord) pay nothing extra, because it's just a plug in that requires no additional boost to the system

      For those I've seen who have added the 220 version, it varies and could be as low as a DIY and adding a dryer 220 outlet (plus the cost of the cord/plug). I'll check on what they paid.

      On a different note, here is an unexpected problem due to the charging heat that is generated.

      the Charge Point system reported a ground fault to this owner during last year's Chicago Blizzard and cold



      A Rat Ate My Chevy Volt



      You can't make this stuff up. Well, maybe you can, but we didn't. Our Twitter followers have already learned that strange things started happening to the Cars.com Chevrolet Volt last Thursday night.

      Around 9 p.m., I got an email alert from the ChargePoint network that our car had experienced a ground fault and the session had been terminated. (Senior editor David Thomas wisely chose to leave our Volt in our downtown parking structure, plugged in, during last week's big Chicago blizzard, and it remained there without incident.)

      Monitoring the online ChargePoint portal from home, I hoped the charging station would reset, something it attempts to do a total of four times every 15 minutes. That's when I received an e-mail from our pal Todd Dore, treasurer of the Fox Valley Electric Auto Association, who parks and charges his converted Volkswagen Beetle right next to our Volt. He said that at 6:30 when he left work, we'd had a "furry visitor," a brown rat who scurried under our Volt, probably seeking warmth. The temperatures had been below 10 degrees.

      Uh oh.

      Rodents are known to climb into the engine compartments of conventional cars when it's frigid outside, so it made sense. The Volt maintains a minimum battery temperature when it's plugged in, even once fully charged. I named the rat "Chilly" and joked that maybe he was a saboteur....

      When I arrived Friday morning, I returned the power connector to the charging station, which reset it, then reattached it to the Volt, which began charging again. No problem. But when I departed Friday night, I got warning lights: ABS, "Service Brake Assist" and "Service Stabilitrak." I drove it home anyway, hoping to get it serviced. The next day, I noticed the bottom rear window pane wasn't defogging, though the main window was.

      This morning, Grossinger City Chevy of Chicago confirmed that Chilly the rat had indeed gnawed through a wiring harness in the engine compartment, causing, at minimum, the warning lights and rear defogger failure.

      This won't be covered under warranty. It was, in the truest sense, an act of nature.

      Chilly could learn a thing or two from the beaver in Bridgestone's Super Bowl commercial. That little guy prevented a Buick from plunging into a raging river. Chilly warmed his rodent ass, ate a snack and cost us about $600. An attempt to repair the harness should save us "thousands," according to the dealer, but the labor involved in extricating the harness from behind the headlight is extensive. Is Chilly a prankster? A disgruntled former bond-holder in "old GM?" Did Nissan send him?

      There's good news and bad: The good news is our Volt, on its own merits, has been trouble-free for more than a month and 3,000 miles. The bad news is this could happen again. Presumably, an electric car with a thermally managed battery will be a tempting nest long after an internal-combustion engine has cooled off. If anyone has a home remedy for deterring pests, we're all ears. We'll be asking the same of Chevy, for sure
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    20. Member shadylurker's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 11:12 AM #120
      I'm excited to see this tech in the future, when it's cheaper. will be perfect in a cheapo beater wagon thing. I want pure utility no fancy stuff

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      10-19-2011 11:40 AM #121
      I thought this was a rather even handed review of this vehicle


      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      It's not hard to tell when a driver is texting. If I can do it while driving a manual, eating a cheeseburger AND loading a shotgun... the average driver, who is admittedly much smarter, and more coordinated than me, should be capable of seeing it too.

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      10-19-2011 11:55 AM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by Barefoot_ View Post
      I thought this was a rather even handed review of this vehicle


      What a cool car. The seats in the premium interior look really nice.

    23. Member compy222's Avatar
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      10-19-2011 12:47 PM #123
      i drove one a few weeks ago. a few brief insights.

      its actually quite comfortable inside, the dash is well laid out and you have to try not to stare at the central LCD - lest you kill yourself. there was a lot of storage room in the boot area and the seats fold flat. the materials were pretty good and i liked the layout.

      I drive an s2000 with a 60+mm single exit everyday, i wear earplugs on the highway. riding in a volt was like riding in a coffin, buried in the basement of a library built in a cornfield, in nebraska. the thing is SILENT. at first, this was extremely disconcerting, but after realizing the seats are pretty comfy, its a lot like a big electric golf cart.

      i now understand why the car is torque limited after seeing the acceleration. while not a drag car, it certainly has no issues getting out of its own way.

      overall, in the 10 minutes i spent driving it, i came away very impressed. its a nice car that sacrifices nothing to be what it is. my problem with cars like the insight and prius, that while being nice hybrids, they suck at being cars (i haven't driven the most recent prius as a disclaimer). the volt goes out of its way to be a car.
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      10-19-2011 01:21 PM #124
      ^ thanks, Compy...

      nice to see "seat of the pants" review from TCL members

      looking forward to more.

      Quote Originally Posted by curvedinfinity View Post
      What a cool car. The seats in the premium interior look really nice.
      I thought so as well

      Last edited by Blunderbuss; 10-19-2011 at 01:26 PM.
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      10-19-2011 01:42 PM #125
      From what I understand, there is a 1,500 dollar tax credit in Oregon for this car in addition to the fed tax credit of 7500

      Seems like most of the volt owners are reporting around a dollar or 1.10 per nightly charge

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