supercharged 2.5l

[nothing-leaves-stock]

its a 2 sec drawing. if you set up the pulleys right, then yes.
the "new" pulley thats added will need to be on a mount fron the other oem one. space it right to wrap the sc and alt and your good.

i can find out the info on the AWIC plates from my guy( same guy that does the SAI plates for us) the setup is amazing looking and will bolt right under the honda kit sc. i'll have to find out what sc they use for sure.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

Ya hell, if we get this done, c2 can produce this into a kit, since the M62 is readily available, and offer this spacer AWIC as NLS stage 2 upgrade

[nothing-leaves-stock]

i'll make it all if people step up.

bolt on manifold, awic and belt setup with C2 fueling and software

[we are138]

i'll make it all if people step up.

bolt on manifold, awic and belt setup with C2 fueling and software

time frame and cost for project? i not one of those that promise to buy something and the r&d is done and whoops ... no money. i understand well made products cost money, im just looking for a ball park

[nothing-leaves-stock]

depends on what you want.
eaton? rotrex? fmic? AWIC? etc. could be 4500-8000

[mldouthi]

i'll make it all if people step up.

bolt on manifold, awic and belt setup with C2 fueling and software

Not to be disrespectful, but why does someone need to step up for you to make a kit? You know people want them, and if a kit was made, just like a turbo setup, people will buy them.

If you build it they will come

I am happy you are even working on stuff for the 2.5 motor. This is just a question.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

Prob looking a a grand here, before tuning and fueling

[nothing-leaves-stock]

i've been around here enough, and helped other projects with other companies to know that that line is false. we have built stuff...they don't come. the just bug and bug and bug and they don't buy.

if we build a kit and its $5000 for a supercharger kit and it make 250-300whp. no one will buy it cause you can turbo for 3-4K. so we jus wasted our time and have a cool car.

plus we don't have a test car anymore as we did in the past.

we don't think a supercharger product will sell enough to over come the amount of time and money to develope it and produce it. willit be fun? yes. will it be the 1st? yes. will it sell? no, maybe a few.

there is many examples in the past that this is true. hate to say it but companies are out there to make cool things AND make money doing it....not just to make cool things and go broke.

so if someone wants one...we will build it for them.

[lessthanalex]

I think the big problem with getting a company to do the development is that then everyone has to commit to THAT setup. And if they don't want to, the company then has to offer alternatives to those who want to piece together a different kit.

For myself, I love the Eaton supers and that would my preference. I would definitely like some numbers depending on the kit type as well as what the consensus is for sc and ic selection.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

[mldouthi]

i've been around here enough, and helped other projects with other companies to know that that line is false. we have built stuff...they don't come. the just bug and bug and bug and they don't buy.

if we build a kit and its $5000 for a supercharger kit and it make 250-300whp. no one will buy it cause you can turbo for 3-4K. so we jus wasted our time and have a cool car.

plus we don't have a test car anymore as we did in the past.

we don't think a supercharger product will sell enough to over come the amount of time and money to develope it and produce it. willit be fun? yes. will it be the 1st? yes. will it sell? no, maybe a few.

there is many examples in the past that this is true. hate to say it but companies are out there to make cool things AND make money doing it....not just to make cool things and go broke.

so if someone wants one...we will build it for them.

That makes perfect sense.


Thank you for putting me in my place




Back to supercharging talk.

[nothing-leaves-stock]

not trying to "put you in your place" at all. just saying the point of what has happened in the past.

we would LOVE to just make a ton of cool cars just to do it. but money must come from somewhere and that somewhre for us and other companies is selling products and building cars for customers.

i hope we can get something done on this...and ITB's for a 2.5L both have been in my head for 2-3 years now.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

Ya true but also its not like a bunch of kits have to be made right away. Do it once, use it, advertise it on here and at local shows or sell it off, then keep the blueprints to the kit handy and list the kits forsale but put a leadway on them for however long it takes to make it and ship it out.
Its like DSM trannies being rebuilt, drop it off and there is a 3-6 month wait

[nothing-leaves-stock]

one kit, the 1st kit could cost a companie 10K to set up and develope. if not more....then you have it for sale for 4-5k? and have no promise of making money or more kits. just can't happen.

[thygreyt]

That makes perfect sense.


Thank you for putting me in my place




Back to supercharging work

fixed it

[mldouthi]

fixed it

Good point. Im starting on the s/c flange tonight.

I was trying to get the intake flange ordered today too. You hear me C2?

@NLS
No worries.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

one kit, the 1st kit could cost a companie 10K to set up and develope. if not more....then you have it for sale for 4-5k? and have no promise of making money or more kits. just can't happen.

Ok I see what you are saying, I dont want to argue about it, but If we get this made, and running, itll be well under 10k to set up and build, not everything needs to be over developed, tho I do understand the labor has to be compensated which adds to the cost of the kit

So $4500-$8000 sounds about right depending on the hardware involved.

[mldouthi]

Welp, no work is getting done tonight. Rain and I dont have any .25" plate and I think .5" is overkill.



Or should I use .5"?

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

Welp, no work is getting done tonight. Rain and I dont have any .25" plate and I think .5" is overkill.



Or should I use .5"?

What are you starting first?

[mldouthi]

What are you starting first?

The flange for the sc. I know i need that.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

The flange for the sc. I know i need that.

Well Im doing a custom plenum similar to the HEP manifold for the 2.0t just larger internal volume. Itll have a flat bottom for the the charger to bolt to. I planned on using 3/8 aluminum plate as an adapter. 3/8 is what Id recommend

Im gonna start bringing my tig and all the tools Ill need up to my store with me so I can work on it in the back room! LOL. I dont plan on having this done till spring, so Im in no hurry. I want to make it look as clean as I possibly can.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

Also I think Im going to shorten the supercharger intake arm a few inches. Do you plan on using the supplied bov/dv that is integrated to the charger, or weld that shut and do your own setup?

[mldouthi]

Well Im doing a custom plenum similar to the HEP manifold for the 2.0t just larger internal volume. Itll have a flat bottom for the the charger to bolt to. I planned on using 3/8 aluminum plate as an adapter. 3/8 is what Id recommend

Im gonna start bringing my tig and all the tools Ill need up to my store with me so I can work on it in the back room! LOL. I dont plan on having this done till spring, so Im in no hurry. I want to make it look as clean as I possibly can.

Got it. I have been looking at other setups online and they all look around 3/8. So ill have to order some of that. Where do you work? I wish I was able to work on my car at work. I either have to get there early or stay late. We mainly cut foam, so no cool tools for me to use at work. Well we do have a cnc table that has a router that is suppose to cut alum. But the table is garbage and the company that makes it cant even get it calibrated.

Also I think Im going to shorten the supercharger intake arm a few inches. Do you plan on using the supplied bov/dv that is integrated to the charger, or weld that shut and do your own setup?

I am going to use the bypass valve that comes on the charger. I was thinking of maybe using a wastegate on the pressure side to regulate max pressure. But I dont know if I am going to do that yet.

I am going to wait and see how I am going to mount/position the charger before I cut/modify the intake arm.

I will also be welding the silencer ports shut... I want to hear it whine!

[mldouthi]

Crap, Yarde metals drop zone doesnt have anything less that 6" thick plate in 6061. I hate paying for them to cut a piece of metal off.

[Issam Abed]

ghetto picture.

Even then you would need to increase the # of ribs on all the pulleys to ensure there is no belt slippage.

UM is basically using a Storm Developments design. 6 of one , half a dozen of the other. Only so many ways you can mount on a clockwise spinning rotrex in a crapped R32 engine bay.

Supercharged 2.5 20V Rabbit motor is a pipe dream and no real tuner with 5 mins invested in this market is going to sit down and develop a kit. Josh said it very well....in the end all you will have is a cool car because no one will buy a kit. If this is your hobby then by all means and I would love to see it done but we explored this 2 years ago using a rotrex (then using an HKS unit) on a rabbit motor. After sitting down and working out the development cost , the project was scrapped.

Reality is there are a few of you in here that are serious about tuning your motors and we dont see that # growing rapidly. The 2.5 has effectively replaced the 2.0 8V cross flow motor and that is a hard pill to swallow (even for us).

That being said turbo FTW!

[nothing-leaves-stock]

yup!!

[mldouthi]

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f172...ff-msrp-98826/

This looks like it would work for the 2.5 motor, minus the intake manifold, and the placememt of the ic.

But it puts the sc in the place the NLS was talking about.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f172...ff-msrp-98826/

This looks like it would work for the 2.5 motor, minus the intake manifold, and the placememt of the ic.

But it puts the sc in the place the NLS was talking about.

Ya thats the best way to set it up. Im just going to bolt it straight into the intake manifold. Im not looking for big out put, just some low end umph. Like I showed there are several kits that do not intercool and make decent gains. I will most likely look into the awic spacer Josh was talking about if I have heating issues down the road. Im not too worried about the belt slipping, as the charger pulley only spins as fast as the other pulleys, not like its adding rotational speed to the rest of the pulleys at idle. mldouthi you keeping the pulley thats included on the charger, or you going to get a slightly larger one just to be safe?

[mldouthi]

Ya thats the best way to set it up. Im just going to bolt it straight into the intake manifold. Im not looking for big out put, just some low end umph. Like I showed there are several kits that do not intercool and make decent gains. I will most likely look into the awic spacer Josh was talking about if I have heating issues down the road. Im not too worried about the belt slipping, as the charger pulley only spins as fast as the other pulleys, not like its adding rotational speed to the rest of the pulleys at idle. mldouthi you keeping the pulley thats included on the charger, or you going to get a slightly larger one just to be safe?

I dont have a pulley on mine at the moment. It only has the zzp hub on it. So I was planning on either buying one of there bolt on pulleys or making my own in the size I want. I still need to do some calculations to find out what will give me the boost I want. Im thinking like 8-9 psi for now.

If someone has already done the calculations, that would save me some work.
All I have heard from other people is use the biggest pulley I can find. haha.

4.2 is the biggest zzp pulley I can get.

Does anyone know what the other pulley sizes are, crank, a/c?

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

I dont have a pulley on mine at the moment. It only has the zzp hub on it. So I was planning on either buying one of there bolt on pulleys or making my own in the size I want. I still need to do some calculations to find out what will give me the boost I want. Im thinking like 8-9 psi for now.

If someone has already done the calculations, that would save me some work.
All I have heard from other people is use the biggest pulley I can find. haha.

4.2 is the biggest zzp pulley I can get.

Does anyone know what the other pulley sizes are, crank, a/c?

Well Im using a 4" pulley to ensure I can safely get it running, and then after tuned, and putting a few miles on it to check reliability, start to go smaller. Once there are a full set of lightened pulleys and tensioners for us, we can probably keep the 4" pulley and make a few extra ponies. As we will need a new shorter belt each size we go down Im currently looking for a cheap damaged spare head that I can build this off of. If I had a way to get my spare motor up to where Im at, I could just build it on that, but its 2hrs away, and I dont have a truck to go get it.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

So you take measurements of each pulley divide crank by s/c pulley to get ratio, then multiply the ratio by engine redline to comare with supercharger manufacture listed charger redline, and lower/raise pulley size by that.
If we can get the circumferance of the crank and s/c pulley we can do the equation. So far this is all I can fill out

Crank Pulley Circumferance = xxx
S/C Pulley Circumferance = xxx
Ratio = xxxx

@ 6200 rpm = xxxx S/C rpm

Then you take s/c rpm multiply it by .03531 to get CFM
M62 supercharger output capacity = 1 L/ rpm = 14300 L (LPM*.03531 = CFM) = ~454 CFM of air

2.5 engine can inhale 271 CFM of air (151.33 cubic inches*6200RPM/3464)

Excess air = 454 – 271 = 183 “boosted” CFM

Boost = excess CFM / normal CFM * atmospheric pressure
183 / 271 * 14.7 = 9.93 so ~10 pounds boost This was done using a 2.3 ratio made up from 6200rpm divided by the supplied 14300 rpm charger speed given already

To do it right we need crank circumferance as well as s/c pulley. BUT if you can get a 2.3 ratio you will get the boost levels you are looking for.

[mldouthi]

What do the green numbers represent in this map, I thought it was rpm. But it doesnt seen to correspond to this map.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

Idk I went to a Cobalt forum where obviously they will know more about the charger than us, and the 14,000 rpm s/c redline is what they say is max for the stock pulley. Without the circumferance of the crank I cant realisticaly come up with a suggested s/c pulley size.

[mldouthi]

Idk I went to a Cobalt forum where obviously they will know more about the charger than us, and the 14,000 rpm s/c redline is what they say is max for the stock pulley. Without the circumferance of the crank I cant realisticaly come up with a suggested s/c pulley size.

The data that you showed makes sense with the second map, which is the one on eatons website. but not with the first. I was just curious.

Is the stock s/c pulley 4 inches?

Ill get out the calipers later tonight and see if I can get some dims of the pulleys. I also asked ECS what there lightweight pulley diameter was (the standard, not the underdrive). Maybe ill get an answer there.

[kevin FaKiN spLits]

The data that you showed makes sense with the second map, which is the one on eatons website. but not with the first. I was just curious.

Is the stock s/c pulley 4 inches?

Ill get out the calipers later tonight and see if I can get some dims of the pulleys. I also asked ECS what there lightweight pulley diameter was (the standard, not the underdrive). Maybe ill get an answer there.

If you can get a ratio of 2.3 itll be just right, so if ECS gets back with that info it'll tell us exactly what size pulley we need to achieve 10 psi

[mldouthi]

ECS

Diameter of the stock and the lightweight pulley are the same. Our ECS lightweight crank pulley is 70% lighter than stock, that is where the extra throttle response and horsepower is made!

Dumb, that didnt help.