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    Thread: supercharged 2.5l

    1. Member Stg3G60's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 03:33 PM #141
      Cant wait to see when you guys get this all together and running. Super stoked about this! If you ask me, SC is way cooler than a turbo. If i had the money, and didnt need my warranty, I would have already ponied up for NLS to build it for me. Good luck

    2. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 03:39 PM #142
      Ok, HPA has a intak manifold that has a water intercooler built in. What if we did something like this


      Then we'd just need to run one pipe around up to the throttle body or we can move the throttle body to the s/c arm and do a cai off that.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    3. 10-21-2011 04:05 PM #143
      Is there space to mount the sc under the intake mani? that way you could make a bigger plenum with an awic built in. Is that what you meant by your last pic?

      Also, if you are mounting the sc there couldn't you run it to a regular intercooler mounted in the front bumper and have it come back up to the intake mani? Like a turbo setup.
      Last edited by DerekH; 10-21-2011 at 04:07 PM.

    4. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 04:16 PM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by DerekH View Post
      Is there space to mount the sc under the intake mani? that way you could make a bigger plenum with an awic built in. Is that what you meant by your last pic?

      Also, if you are mounting the sc there couldn't you run it to a regular intercooler mounted in the front bumper and have it come back up to the intake mani? Like a turbo setup.
      Yes you have to mount it under the intake manifold. That HPA mani has a built in awic. One pipe from outlet adapter to the manifold and bam cooling done, keep the battery in the bay, run that pipe under the car. Then you would just need to decide how you are going to route the throttle body.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

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      10-21-2011 04:41 PM #145
      i just built a twin AWIC intake manifold....its a ton of work and money...
      i don't think its the best way to go like you posted...

      build what i just ghetto ms'd up. and add the AWIC core my friends make and be done. plain, simple, cheapest, yadda yadda. don't over engineer it
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    6. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 04:44 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by nothing-leaves-stock View Post
      i just built a twin AWIC intake manifold....its a ton of work and money...
      i don't think its the best way to go like you posted...

      build what i just ghetto ms'd up. and add the AWIC core my friends make and be done. plain, simple, cheapest, yadda yadda. don't over engineer it
      Thats what IM doing. It seems Mld is looking to build a technical setup. Can you get pics of his product, Im very interested.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    7. Member mldouthi's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 04:57 PM #147
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      Thats what IM doing. It seems Mld is looking to build a technical setup. Can you get pics of his product, Im very interested.
      I guess, Im also not worried about having to cut into my hood and add some type of hump to have cooler air going into the motor. So I have a little more height to play with.

    8. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 05:08 PM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by mldouthi View Post
      I guess, Im also not worried about having to cut into my hood and add some type of hump to have cooler air going into the motor. So I have a little more height to play with.
      See if I could figure out something cool to do as a cut in the hood, Id do it. Like raise the front and have a vent behind it like this
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    9. 10-21-2011 05:33 PM #149
      At work now. Getting measurements on way home. Super slammed today.

      I don't like top mount IC. Way too much heat soak unless its a fancy polymer which is expensive as heck to fabricate. I think running a drive shaft to the belt and just mounting the super charger where the battery is would work best.
      Last edited by tchilds; 10-21-2011 at 05:38 PM.

    10. 10-21-2011 05:43 PM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      At work now. Getting measurements on way home. Super slammed today.

      I don't like top mount IC. Way too much heat soak unless its a fancy polymer which is expensive as heck to fabricate. I think running a drive shaft to the belt and just mounting the super charger where the battery is would work best.
      Good idea, definitely doesn't look as cool as mounted straight to the intake mani though. lol

    11. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 05:43 PM #151
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      At work now. Getting measurements on way home. Super slammed today.

      I don't like top mount IC. Way too much heat soak unless its a fancy polymer which is expensive as heck to fabricate. I think running a drive shaft to the belt and just mounting the super charger where the battery is would work best.
      As for the heatsoak, HPA swears by that design.

      I think like I originally said this is the only feasable way without getting crazy expensive, and labor extensive.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    12. 10-21-2011 05:48 PM #152
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      As for the heatsoak, HPA swears by that design.

      I think like I originally said this is the only feasable way without getting crazy expensive, and labor extensive.
      That is the way i would want to do it as well. Looks cool, functional and relatively easy. Provided you have the space. Awics make me a little nervous though. I suppose you could run a separate temp sensor on it to make it a little less unnerving.

      Out of curiosity how do you plan on making sure each cylinder gets an even amount of flow?

    13. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 06:01 PM #153
      I think coming up from the bottom and the velocity stacks inside, will take care of even flow. Look at the 2.0t the throttle body is on the bottom and the pressurized airflow spreads just fine on those.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    14. 10-21-2011 06:25 PM #154
      Sounds like that would work, might want to put in some sort of air splitter for the middle cylinder if you are able to mount the sc right in the middle of the plenum. How big are you planning on making the plenum? you probably want like 2-3 liters. I have no idea what the calculations would be for that.

    15. Member mldouthi's Avatar
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      10-22-2011 12:33 PM #155
      Here are some formulas taken from team-integra.net for intake manifolds and runners

      1. / One Formula: David Vizard's Rule for IM Runner Length

      The general rule is that you should begin with a runner length of 17.8 cm for a 10,000 rpm peak torque location, from the intake opening to the plenum chamber. You add 4.3 cm to the runner length for every 1000 rpm that you want the peak torque to occur before the 10,000 rpm.

      So, for instance, if peak torque should occur at 4,000 rpm the total runner length should be 17.8 cm + (6 x 4.3 cm) = 43.6 cm.

      Vizard also suggests that you can calculate the ideal runner diameter by the equation :

      SQRT [ (target rpm for peak torque x Displacement x VE)/ 3330 ]

      SQRT = square root

      VE = Volumetric Efficiency in %

      Displacement in Liters


      eg.

      So if we want peak torque at 5800 rpm at 95% VE in a teg, VE = 0.95


      SQRT [ (5800x 1.8 L x 0.95)/3330]

      = 1.73 in. or 43.8 mm (1,73 x 25.4 mm/in.) is the ideal runner diameter.


      2./ Another Formula to Calculate Runner Length for a Specific Peak Torque RPM: from Steve Magnante at Hot Rod magazine


      N x L = 84,000

      where N represents the desired engine rpm for peak torque and L is the length in inches from the opening of the runner tube to the valve head.

      3./ Website Calculator

      Or you can forget the formulas and just plug in the numbers and this calculator will crunch out the numbers for you:

      http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/runnertorquecalc.html

    16. Member mldouthi's Avatar
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      10-22-2011 01:41 PM #156
      From what I have read on many sites is that the intake plenum size should be 1.25 to 1.5 times the engine displacement. Therefore we will be looking at a 3.125L to 3.75L plenum.



      As for the runner lenghts, There seems to be lots of factors that I dont know.


      Here is a library of calculations
      http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm
      Last edited by mldouthi; 10-22-2011 at 02:02 PM.

    17. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-23-2011 09:06 PM #157
      The whole runner length thing is no big deal. The problem is we dont have all the room in the world to have longer runners. Im gonna follow the stock length and plenum volume, with a flat bottom for me to bolt the charger up. Im getting less convinced this is going to work, with the alternator being left where it is at. Problem is, for ideal fitment with this charger above the alternator, the top of the plenum will be above the core support meaning the hood will not close... Soo Im still gonna go along with the project and if there needs to be some sort of hood modification, Ill deal with that when the time comes. May have a VW emblem made to weld on and portrude it through the hood. Just figured Id put this out there
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    18. n00b
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      10-24-2011 12:16 AM #158
      fwiw www.rotrex.com makes some compact SC's with a handful of R32's. 10 cars total with their system.

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      10-24-2011 02:45 AM #159
      why so complicated try this here http://www.carlicious-parts.com/epag...jectID=5222166

      fitting the supercharger to newer 2,5 5cyl should be no problem at all

    20. Banner Advertiser nothing-leaves-stock's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 08:17 AM #160
      um, yea, NONE of those will fit or come close.
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    21. 10-24-2011 09:05 AM #161
      Look how this intercooler is plumbed. I actually like this idea

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCrqcAmCBs

      Kevin said the old SC's failed because they were plumbed too much but this thing has the shortest plumbing ever.


      If we can retrofit the new AUDI electronic oil level guages it would buy us another inch of room. Does the TTRS have electronic oil gauges now? I'm pretty sure they do
      Last edited by tchilds; 10-24-2011 at 09:48 AM.

    22. Member mldouthi's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 09:30 AM #162
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      Look how this intercooler is plumbed. I actually like this idea

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCrqcAmCBs

      Kevin said the old SC's failed because they were plumbed too much but this thing has the shortest plumbing ever.


      If we can retrofit the new AUDI electronic oil level guages it would buy us another inch of room.
      Nothing like running hot air through an intercooler

    23. 10-24-2011 09:39 AM #163
      I'm just saying, maybe a different radiator is a really good idea to make everything fit easily. A lot easier to mount a new radiator than it is to make it fit with what we currently have. I like this idea the best so far as I'd rather pay for a sweet new rad than a bunch of piping or AWIC setup. Top mounts are going to heatsoak too, don't care what anyone says. We don't have the ability to build with materials that are good for top mounting high HP applications. If you tell someone they need $700 rad or $700 piping, well its about the same in the end isn't it?

      We have room for a charger, don't want long plumbing, and don't know where to fit an intercooler... so why not? This would be way easier to fabricate too. Next easiest way would be side mount where the battery is located, but why not just drop it down if you've gone that far with it?

      Just saying, if I got a VW that is fast off the line, heatsoak is the last thing I want diminishing that effort.
      Last edited by tchilds; 10-24-2011 at 09:58 AM.

    24. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 10:12 AM #164
      I already have a Mishimoto radiator. It does not directly fit, and gives no extra room at all. A new radiator is not the answer, as you still need fans. If we can delete the ac and lower the alternator, we can fit any twin screw of our choice.

      And yea none of those shown s/c's that everyone who has used hates to death will bolt up without tons of cash. Im building the intake manifold to reasonable n/a specs, so I can just use it as an oem replacement, or sell it if this project doesnt work out
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    25. 10-24-2011 10:20 AM #165
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      I already have a Mishimoto radiator. It does not directly fit, and gives no extra room at all. A new radiator is not the answer, as you still need fans. If we can delete the ac and lower the alternator, we can fit any twin screw of our choice.

      And yea none of those shown s/c's that everyone who has used hates to death will bolt up without tons of cash. Im building the intake manifold to reasonable n/a specs, so I can just use it as an oem replacement, or sell it if this project doesnt work out

      You need A fan, the other fan is for running AC which you could delete if you only ran AC on the highway. Which is pretty much what I do anyway.

    26. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 10:21 AM #166
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      Look how this intercooler is plumbed. I actually like this idea

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTCrqcAmCBs

      Kevin said the old SC's failed because they were plumbed too much but this thing has the shortest plumbing ever.


      If we can retrofit the new AUDI electronic oil level guages it would buy us another inch of room. Does the TTRS have electronic oil gauges now? I'm pretty sure they do
      No, what I said was the designs I came up with, which were logical reasonable designs to include a AWIC are too bulky to work, as we dont have the room. There are other ways of cooling the air comming out of the s/c. The other s/c attempts however, failed because they were trying to use the larger bulky m90 s/c that just wont work once again without tons of cash. The m62 is perfect for around 240-260hp, which is honestly more than Im looking for. I just want something nobody else has, and since a s/c is something that you have to shell out 4-8k if you want it, but I can build it myself which gives me the satisfaction of following through with this
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    27. 10-24-2011 10:23 AM #167
      Ah I got ya. I was thinking like 500hp setups.

      Well I like your meth/e85 idea w/non intercooled. That would easily meet your expectations and then some I would think.
      Last edited by tchilds; 10-24-2011 at 10:26 AM.

    28. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 10:26 AM #168
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      You need A fan, the other fan is for running AC which you could delete if you only ran AC on the highway. Which is pretty much what I do anyway.
      Once again tho, this is crossing the line of over developement. Itll fit with my final design of just simply bolting the charger up to the manifold and using one of Josh's buddies AWIC spacers, the only possible flaw is the AWIC spacer dropping it to the point where the alternator will have to be moved, which would suck, but like I said there are other simpler ways to cool that air... Or just comvert to e85
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    29. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 10:38 AM #169
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      Ah I got ya. I was thinking like 500hp setups.

      Well I like your meth/e85 idea w/non intercooled. That would easily meet your expectations and then some I would think.
      Yea I dont think the m62 will make that much power without major work to the charger, let alone in our space limited application.
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    30. Member mldouthi's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 11:17 AM #170
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      Yea I dont think the m62 will make that much power without major work to the charger, let alone in our space limited application.
      That is my goal as well, somewhere around 250hp.

      There is another guy in my area that would also like to s/c his 2.5 but wont be able to start working on it until christmas. Which sounds like its right in line with both of us as well. haha.

      This is definitely possible and will get done, either with or without and ic. I will keep working on the ic design and if I cant figure out a way for it to work, then I will go with your approach.

      Short stack ic setup for M90
      http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=145&catid=139

      Here is the replacement core, only 1/2 inch thick. I think they said the other dims were 11 x 8
      http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=363&catid=139

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      10-24-2011 11:37 AM #171
      Quote Originally Posted by tchilds View Post
      Ah I got ya. I was thinking like 500hp setups.

      Well I like your meth/e85 idea w/non intercooled. That would easily meet your expectations and then some I would think.
      never rely completely on something that can run out.
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    32. 10-24-2011 11:59 AM #172
      I totally agree. However, you can also rely on common sense in this case. Nitrous setups have the same downfalls, one little solenoid goes and BOOM goes the motor. If I was doing a 240-260hp setup it would be on nitrous. So I really understand, to save money you get less margin of error but if its a stock motor what are you really risking?

    33. Member kevin splits's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 12:04 PM #173
      Quote Originally Posted by mldouthi View Post
      Here is the replacement core, only 1/2 inch thick. I think they said the other dims were 11 x 8
      http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_p...=363&catid=139
      Weld plate on all 4 corners and sandwich it between the charger and intake manifold
      "The Vile Bunch" ll v2lab ll eemilitiatv ll Stay Orange.
      2008 Mkv sold; 2003 yellow Skittle-sold; 2009 G8 GT-sold; 1991 Talon TSI- fully built, HTA3582@30psi 600+awhp

    34. Member mldouthi's Avatar
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      10-24-2011 12:25 PM #174
      Quote Originally Posted by kevin FaKiN spLits View Post
      Weld plate on all 4 corners and sandwich it between the charger and intake manifold
      Thats what I was thinking.

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      10-24-2011 12:27 PM #175
      thats just a factory old heater core from a chevy...i wouldn't weld onto it. that and they are super over priced
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