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    Thread: How to build a relatively inexpensive, reliable, 'powerful' 2.0 8v.

    1. Member B4S's Avatar
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      11-27-2011 01:51 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Prof315 View Post
      Anybody who can read and has basic mechanical/wiring skills can build and install an Megasquirt. And in general when you are done you have learned a whole bunch about how your engine actually works.
      As far as getting an MS, just visit DIYAutotune.com or contact Paul (need_a_VR6) at KPTuned or myself.
      You give some people faaaaaaaaaar too much credit .
      1987 GTI 16v, no build thread.

    2. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      11-27-2011 04:23 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by B4S View Post
      You give some people faaaaaaaaaar too much credit .
      That's exactly what I thought.

    3. 11-27-2011 06:28 PM #28
      i just put on a head that i ported and polished after having new seats machined in to allow for 42mm intake valves and 35mm exhaust valves. this is an avh engine in a mk4 jetta. autotech 270 cam, afe intake, scientific rabbit manifold. ( i have a usrt intake but havent put it on)and a magnaflow catback. i am looking at aeg manifold and tt downpipe with a high flow cat maybe.
      car runs really well and pulls strong all the way into the red. havent had it on a dyno but i can say from messing around that p&p and larger valves are worth it.
      i have new forged internals, a turbo, ecu with c2 software, intercooler etc to work with too but am interested in seeing how much NA fun i can get out of it first.
      i guess a 278 and better exhaust mani and cat plus a tune are next. maybe higher compression pistons?

    4. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      11-27-2011 06:35 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by rommeldawg View Post
      i just put on a head that i ported and polished after having new seats machined in to allow for 42mm intake valves and 35mm exhaust valves. this is an avh engine in a mk4 jetta. autotech 270 cam, afe intake, scientific rabbit manifold. ( i have a usrt intake but havent put it on)and a magnaflow catback. i am looking at aeg manifold and tt downpipe with a high flow cat maybe.
      car runs really well and pulls strong all the way into the red. havent had it on a dyno but i can say from messing around that p&p and larger valves are worth it.
      i have new forged internals, a turbo, ecu with c2 software, intercooler etc to work with too but am interested in seeing how much NA fun i can get out of it first.
      i guess a 278 and better exhaust mani and cat plus a tune are next. maybe higher compression pistons?
      Assuming your working with a mk3, look to the TT 276 cam if you sell the 270, and i believe raceland actually makes a decent looking/performing header for an ABA. I would pick that up rather then the AEG exhaust manifold

      Sounds like you have great progress and some nice plans for the car. Be sure to post a build thread or results for the rest of us to enjoy

    5. 11-27-2011 08:52 PM #30
      sorry my bad it was the 276 cam i was thinking about and this is a mk4 avh motor, the car is an 03. i think obx makes a header but i think they are not so great maybe? anyway when i get to the turbo i will take pics and create a build thread.

    6. 11-28-2011 08:54 AM #31
      The info about the headers is incorrect. TT also has a 4-1 race header. It's not stainless though and collector will rot out in 2-3 years of daily use. I didn't notice much of a power difference when I ran it, and it did make my car a lot louder. You can also still run an aftermarket/high flow or modified OEM cat with this header and their racing downpipes if you wanted.
      http://techtonicstuning.com/main/ind...th=2_13_60_297
      Last edited by zero.; 11-28-2011 at 08:57 AM.

    7. Member PKstrategy's Avatar
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      11-28-2011 10:14 AM #32
      Is there any information on using the Neuspeed adjustable Cam gears?

      I see them pop up often in the classifieds and I believe the general idea is to use them with upgraded cams.

      Any more info on this?

    8. 11-28-2011 10:26 AM #33
      Adjustable cam gears are all relatively the same. They just allow you to advance or retard the cam timing. TT and Autotech sell them too. Advancing will increase low-end power and retarding will increase top-end. Basically just allows you to shift the powerband for your cam.

    9. 11-28-2011 10:28 AM #34
      I ran one for over 10 years. What do you want to know?

    10. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      11-28-2011 10:29 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by zero. View Post
      The info about the headers is incorrect. TT also has a 4-1 race header. It's not stainless though and collector will rot out in 2-3 years of daily use. I didn't notice much of a power difference when I ran it, and it did make my car a lot louder. You can also still run an aftermarket/high flow or modified OEM cat with this header and their racing downpipes if you wanted.
      http://techtonicstuning.com/main/ind...th=2_13_60_297
      None of those are for a mk4? They do look awesome though

      And yeah as far as a header for a mk4 the only one's i can find are the obx which for the price may not be too bad, and supersprint makes one but every site that has them wants $900+ which is not worth it for a few hp. I may try out the OBX and see how it is

    11. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      11-28-2011 10:31 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      I ran one for over 10 years. What do you want to know?
      Im actually interested in learning more because that is the only thing i have not done for my built head yet. Only reason i didnt buy one is because it was still my DD but now i have a second vehicle. Is there any significant problems that arise when running the cam gear set back a few degrees for extended periods of time to get increased top end?

    12. Member PKstrategy's Avatar
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      11-28-2011 10:38 AM #37
      cool and Travis, what are the "recommended" cams to use with an adjustable cam gear?
      does it make any sense to use on a stock cam?

    13. 11-28-2011 10:55 AM #38
      Pertaining to the Neuspeed gear....or any aluminum based gear....the main issue is that its aluminum. It may be great for weight, but isnt so great when it comes to durability over steel (oem material). Over time, the timing belt eats away at the gear teeth, making them very sharp. This, in turn, wears the timing belt material faster, making it more susceptible to failure. But being in the location it is, you can keep a close eye on it's wear. I fine toothed file can be used to smooth out any sharp edges. Also, with the Neuspeed gear specifically, the locking screw threads will strip with prolonged 'use'; So care is needed not to over-tighten the locking screws when tightening it.

      To be honest, the whole premise of a 'light weight' cam gear is silly if you think a bout what it is attaching to...the camshaft. Have you ever tried to turn over a fully loaded cam assembly by hand before? You cant. Valve spring tension is too great. So what is the sense of a lighter cam gear? Nothing really. Techtonics has/had a product they sold with that was the stock outer gear/teeth, with the gear spokes and hub replaced with their own aluminum design. A few grams lighter than OEM, but with the strength and durability of the OEM gear cogs for belt tooth longevity.

      And as for the functionality of the gear; Anything under 4* in either direction won't even register on the butt-dyno. For the most part, what you are doing is changing the valve open/closing event times. By advancing the gear, you are changing the events by 4* earlier. The effect this has is that low end torque is raised, and tapers down until peak hp, where it then continues to die off faster than the cam at 0*. The opposite occurs when you retard the timing. You lose a little bottom end, in which that gap decreases until peak hp, where after peak hp, your tq doesnt die off as fast as stock timing, and there is where you gain more hp on the top end. Depending your your mods depends on how much changes. On my old motor, I experianced about 5-7wtq difference adjusting it 4*. Not much of a change, now is it? This isnt a magical 'more horsepower' mod. Its more of a fine tuner tool to use in conjunction with whatever you have done to your motor and a dyno. There is no way to know what you did without looking real-time on a dyno and adjusting then.

      For the most part, I always set my gear to 4* advanced. With my peak hp at 6900rpms, I was able to get a little more grunt below 4500rpms for around town driving (about 90% of my driving) and still maintained my 135whp peak hp. Sure, power died off faster after peak, but who cares? I rarely revved past 7200 with the 276* cam anyways (no need to). So unless you plan on driving like a d*ck around town every day and rev your motor out at ever sign, light, and intersection, run +4* cam timing.

      Oh, and an adj cam gear on a stock cam is beyond pointless.

      Any other questions?

    14. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      11-28-2011 12:38 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      Pertaining to the Neuspeed gear....or any aluminum based gear....the main issue is that its aluminum. It may be great for weight, but isnt so great when it comes to durability over steel (oem material). Over time, the timing belt eats away at the gear teeth, making them very sharp. This, in turn, wears the timing belt material faster, making it more susceptible to failure. But being in the location it is, you can keep a close eye on it's wear. I fine toothed file can be used to smooth out any sharp edges. Also, with the Neuspeed gear specifically, the locking screw threads will strip with prolonged 'use'; So care is needed not to over-tighten the locking screws when tightening it.

      To be honest, the whole premise of a 'light weight' cam gear is silly if you think a bout what it is attaching to...the camshaft. Have you ever tried to turn over a fully loaded cam assembly by hand before? You cant. Valve spring tension is too great. So what is the sense of a lighter cam gear? Nothing really. Techtonics has/had a product they sold with that was the stock outer gear/teeth, with the gear spokes and hub replaced with their own aluminum design. A few grams lighter than OEM, but with the strength and durability of the OEM gear cogs for belt tooth longevity.

      And as for the functionality of the gear; Anything under 4* in either direction won't even register on the butt-dyno. For the most part, what you are doing is changing the valve open/closing event times. By advancing the gear, you are changing the events by 4* earlier. The effect this has is that low end torque is raised, and tapers down until peak hp, where it then continues to die off faster than the cam at 0*. The opposite occurs when you retard the timing. You lose a little bottom end, in which that gap decreases until peak hp, where after peak hp, your tq doesnt die off as fast as stock timing, and there is where you gain more hp on the top end. Depending your your mods depends on how much changes. On my old motor, I experianced about 5-7wtq difference adjusting it 4*. Not much of a change, now is it? This isnt a magical 'more horsepower' mod. Its more of a fine tuner tool to use in conjunction with whatever you have done to your motor and a dyno. There is no way to know what you did without looking real-time on a dyno and adjusting then.

      For the most part, I always set my gear to 4* advanced. With my peak hp at 6900rpms, I was able to get a little more grunt below 4500rpms for around town driving (about 90% of my driving) and still maintained my 135whp peak hp. Sure, power died off faster after peak, but who cares? I rarely revved past 7200 with the 276* cam anyways (no need to). So unless you plan on driving like a d*ck around town every day and rev your motor out at ever sign, light, and intersection, run +4* cam timing.

      Oh, and an adj cam gear on a stock cam is beyond pointless.

      Any other questions?
      Thanks for the advice, fuel cut on my car is 7200-7300 rpm anyway so no need to retard the timing then. I have a 276 TT cam in my fully p&p'ed head with other supporting mods so this sounds to be my next best step. Thanks for the advice now I know what I will be buying seeing as today is Cyber Monday

    15. 11-28-2011 01:53 PM #40
      Make sure you purchase the correct product. I believe your 2002 motor has the cam position sensor integrated in the gear itself. Might want to double check that......

    16. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 01:12 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by zero. View Post
      The info about the headers is incorrect. TT also has a 4-1 race header. It's not stainless though and collector will rot out in 2-3 years of daily use. I didn't notice much of a power difference when I ran it, and it did make my car a lot louder. You can also still run an aftermarket/high flow or modified OEM cat with this header and their racing downpipes if you wanted.
      http://techtonicstuning.com/main/ind...th=2_13_60_297
      TT's header costs 500 bucks, so I didn't add it.

    17. Moderator root beer's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 01:39 PM #42
      I got mine nib in the classifieds brand new for $300, along with a full exhaust for $100.....I personally think they're some of the best headers available for these cars. It's definitely not ebay junk, and it doesn't have the bull**** tri-y merges that most have. Also, you can add a nice collector if you want.....that's where the power is made. I've heard some guys have made some really good power gains by going to a long collector(you can either go the summit racing route, or burns, vibrant) on these motors on a regular old pacesetter even. The fact that you can order a header with 1.75" primaries is just awesome.

      My vr thread has schrick 268's in it....800 dollar cams. That doesn't mean you can't find them used for 3-400.

      Tell people the best parts, they can figure out pricing.
      Last edited by root beer; 12-04-2011 at 01:44 PM.

    18. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 06:24 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by root beer View Post
      I got mine nib in the classifieds brand new for $300, along with a full exhaust for $100.....I personally think they're some of the best headers available for these cars. It's definitely not ebay junk, and it doesn't have the bull**** tri-y merges that most have. Also, you can add a nice collector if you want.....that's where the power is made. I've heard some guys have made some really good power gains by going to a long collector(you can either go the summit racing route, or burns, vibrant) on these motors on a regular old pacesetter even. The fact that you can order a header with 1.75" primaries is just awesome.

      My vr thread has schrick 268's in it....800 dollar cams. That doesn't mean you can't find them used for 3-400.

      Tell people the best parts, they can figure out pricing.
      Well put, ive been kicking around the idea all week of dropping the money for the mk4 2.0 supersprint header, I have $ but 1000 is alot for one... i think i may go for it though

    19. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 09:12 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by 02vwgolf View Post
      Well put, ive been kicking around the idea all week of dropping the money for the mk4 2.0 supersprint header, I have $ but 1000 is alot for one... i think i may go for it though
      For 1,000 dollars you may be able to find a used turbo kit or supercharger. 10 bills for only say 7bhp isn't worth it IMHO. That money would be better spent on a mk4 AEG exhaust manifold and a TT race downpipe, and that's only 400. With the other 600, you could have a nice night with an "escort".

    20. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-04-2011 10:20 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
      For 1,000 dollars you may be able to find a used turbo kit or supercharger. 10 bills for only say 7bhp isn't worth it IMHO. That money would be better spent on a mk4 AEG exhaust manifold and a TT race downpipe, and that's only 400. With the other 600, you could have a nice night with an "escort".
      Already had a turbo'd mk4 2.0, this one im working on now im trying to do all motor which gets me laughed at by most people And I already have a ported exhaust manifold and custom dp/racepipe...but want to give a legit header a go. Trying to get 140 whp

    21. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 08:16 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by 02vwgolf View Post
      Already had a turbo'd mk4 2.0, this one im working on now im trying to do all motor which gets me laughed at by most people And I already have a ported exhaust manifold and custom dp/racepipe...but want to give a legit header a go. Trying to get 140 whp
      I spent over 10,000 dollars on my old MK2 coupe ABA track car and the most I dyno'd was 160whp. If you want 140whp, you'll atleast need:
      288 cam
      Lots of headwork
      +.5 compression HG
      A SRI
      Header/race DP
      2.5" straight exhaust
      Custom Software..
      etc.. Not an easy task.

    22. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 08:55 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
      I spent over 10,000 dollars on my old MK2 coupe ABA track car and the most I dyno'd was 160whp. If you want 140whp, you'll atleast need:
      288 cam
      Lots of headwork
      +.5 compression HG
      A SRI
      Header/race DP
      2.5" straight exhaust
      Custom Software..
      etc.. Not an easy task.
      Im somewhat on my way to those numbers... so far I have

      276 TT cam with upgrraded lifters, followers, etc
      Major port and polish
      Custom SRI (to be installed within the next few weeks)
      ECS lightweight Pulleys
      Neuspeed adjustable cam gear (just ordered)
      EGR/secondary air delete
      Ported AEG exhaust manifold to custom 2.5" racepipe (soon to be replaced by supersprint header)
      2.5" non catted, non resonated magnaflow exhaust
      VF engineering motor mounts (all three)
      United Motorsports Tune with Cam profile

      Trying to think if I forgot anything else, If I cant get the numbers I want out of this cam I want to go to the 288 but I've never heard/seen anyone run one in a mk4 2.0. Any tips advice

    23. 12-05-2011 09:46 AM #48
      I hope you did a 'stock' dyno. Setting a goal is great and all, but unless you have a base-line to compare too, its just an arbitrary number. Every dyno is different, and every dyno operator is just ass suspect. Just because you roll 140whp, doesnt mean squat unless you know what YOUR baseline was. What if, for instance, your baseline on the dyno you used was 100whp. You rolled 140whp...thats only a 40whp net. What if you rolled 88whp stock. Now its a 52whp net. What's more important? Saying you rolled 140whp or saying you gained 52whp over stock?

      Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, just trying to keep expectations in check. I am curious to see how all this motor work pans out on a MKIV and see it run CEL-free with the 276*. I'm not sure how well you would like a 288* in a MKIV. Between the weight of the car and the tall gear ratios of any MKIV-trans options, I don't think any top end gained would be worth the low-rpm loss. Unless you are just going for bragging rights and don't plan on driving the car as a daily driver.

      Regardless, do as much as you can and keep it CEL-free. As long as that light is lit, you still have work to do....

    24. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 10:15 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      I hope you did a 'stock' dyno. Setting a goal is great and all, but unless you have a base-line to compare too, its just an arbitrary number. Every dyno is different, and every dyno operator is just ass suspect. Just because you roll 140whp, doesnt mean squat unless you know what YOUR baseline was. What if, for instance, your baseline on the dyno you used was 100whp. You rolled 140whp...thats only a 40whp net. What if you rolled 88whp stock. Now its a 52whp net. What's more important? Saying you rolled 140whp or saying you gained 52whp over stock?

      Not trying to be a Debbie Downer here, just trying to keep expectations in check. I am curious to see how all this motor work pans out on a MKIV and see it run CEL-free with the 276*. I'm not sure how well you would like a 288* in a MKIV. Between the weight of the car and the tall gear ratios of any MKIV-trans options, I don't think any top end gained would be worth the low-rpm loss. Unless you are just going for bragging rights and don't plan on driving the car as a daily driver.

      Regardless, do as much as you can and keep it CEL-free. As long as that light is lit, you still have work to do....

      Dont worry already did everything you said, baseline was 86 whp on a local mustang dyno...I was pretty embarrassed after seeing that but I knew I needed a number to work off of. And as far as the CEL, to my amazement( and the reason I will always be using Jeff at United Motorsports from now on) the CEL has not even come on once since the cam has been installed which was 2 months ago. Only real problem Im trying to overcome, as long as the dyno operator was running the dyno right, I seem to stop making power after 6600-6700 rpm.... which surprised me because with the P&P and big cam I was expecting it to keep making power up to the 7200 rpm fuel cut.

      What do you guys think? Im in need of advice and I know some of you guys have alot of experience building aba's and such
      Last edited by 02vwgolf; 12-05-2011 at 10:22 AM.

    25. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 10:21 AM #50
      And I forgot to say It was daily driven for a month and a half after the cam was installed, but now I finally got an suv so she gets to stay in the garage while im up in school And as far as why im doing it, its the same reason why I did my 2.0t...just because all my friends make fun of me for "wasting" money on my 2.0 and dont think I can do it Its really just personal aspirations that drive my desire to do it, im the only person who drives it and I love every single one of those 8 valves

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