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    Thread: How to build a relatively inexpensive, reliable, 'powerful' 2.0 8v.

    1. 12-05-2011 10:37 AM #51
      What was done to your head as far as 'work'? Was it flow benched after? What cam profile was it ported for? Were the velocity ramps ground out of your MKIV intake ports? What you had done to your head is going to play a MAJOR role in your torque curve. Then there is how the SRI was designed and what rpm the harmonic wave was designed to hit at. Then there is header design that effects your low and high end torque peaks. Lots of head variables here...all parts of the puzzle.

      Stock 8v heads stop making torque after 4500rpms. Better flow just keeps it from dying as fast. Getting all the bolt-ons and headwork to work with each other is the key here.

      This is my before/after dyno from 2008. Even with a 288*, my peak was between 6000-6500rpms. Still pulled past 7000rpms, but never shifted past 7200. Its at this point where you need to run a REALLY large cam to move the peak powerband up into the 7000+ range. And that's not daily-drivable. Or inexpensive!


    2. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 12:28 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      What was done to your head as far as 'work'? Was it flow benched after? What cam profile was it ported for? Were the velocity ramps ground out of your MKIV intake ports? What you had done to your head is going to play a MAJOR role in your torque curve. Then there is how the SRI was designed and what rpm the harmonic wave was designed to hit at. Then there is header design that effects your low and high end torque peaks. Lots of head variables here...all parts of the puzzle.

      Stock 8v heads stop making torque after 4500rpms. Better flow just keeps it from dying as fast. Getting all the bolt-ons and headwork to work with each other is the key here.

      This is my before/after dyno from 2008. Even with a 288*, my peak was between 6000-6500rpms. Still pulled past 7000rpms, but never shifted past 7200. Its at this point where you need to run a REALLY large cam to move the peak powerband up into the 7000+ range. And that's not daily-drivable. Or inexpensive!
      I'll try and answer in order from what I remember, I was digging through my desk and cant find the paper with the info...

      -As for the flowbench, at the time the head was ported the flow bench was not working( got me a discount but doesnt help know how well it flows)
      -I had given the cam to the machine shop when I dropped the head off so it was ported to run the 276, machine shop recommended bringing it back if I decided to go with a larger cam later down the road
      -And to the best of my knowledge the velocity ramps were ground down, and a decent amount at that because when the shop was doing it they told my there were actually small air pockets inside some of the casting( which seems pretty terrible but its a mexican made head) which meant they had to grind more to get back to a metal surface

      The shop I took it to, I have became somewhat friends with and based off what your saying it sounds like a may need to remove the head and take it back to get flow benched to have a real idea how well it is flowing.

      And you seem to know a ton, have you had any experience porting obd2 throttle bodies because I have heard this can make a difference, but if too much is taken (which seems to be a fine line) it will kill the performance and tb's are pricey

    3. 12-05-2011 12:33 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by 02vwgolf View Post

      ...have you had any experience porting obd2 throttle bodies because I have heard this can make a difference,
      Yes and yes. I know a little...

    4. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 12:35 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      Yes and yes. I know a little...
      If okay, Can I maybe pay you to acquire your services

    5. 12-05-2011 12:40 PM #55
      What year did the MKIV switch to DBW?

    6. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 12:44 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      What year did the MKIV switch to DBW?
      01.5 i believe

    7. 12-05-2011 01:13 PM #57
      Wont touch DBW throttles. They don't take to being ported. Like, at all.

    8. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 01:18 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      Wont touch DBW throttles. They don't take to being ported. Like, at all.
      Damn thats unfortunate Once I get this new SRI installed I will be going back to get re-dyno'd just to see where it stands and how much progress/creative thinking is going to be needed to get everything I can out of this.

      I saw a thread over on the naturally aspirated forum a while back about the lack of provable gains from going with the TT over-sized valves in n/a ABA's... how do you feel about that because im thinking of if I have to that would be the last otpion

    9. 12-05-2011 01:57 PM #59
      Too much to get into regarding that. Diameter increases doesnt take well to shrouding created by the bigger valves. Unshrounding drops compression and you only have some much real estate between the valve face and bore. Intake ports are only so big where you lose low end velocity. If anything, go with a bigger exhaust valve. Proper bowl work and blending, plus a righteous 3-angle grind is most beneficial. Also, back-cut valves increase flow rates. But Im not really one to comment on this as I don't have any experience with porting heads, or flow benching.

    10. 12-05-2011 01:59 PM #60
      As for throttle options, go into the 1.8t forum and poke around for larger throttle options. There are a few threads that get into options that the guys utilize for BT options. But remember, make sure everything else is taken care of and that your throttle is the bottleneck. IOW, worry about that last.

    11. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-05-2011 04:03 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      As for throttle options, go into the 1.8t forum and poke around for larger throttle options. There are a few threads that get into options that the guys utilize for BT options. But remember, make sure everything else is taken care of and that your throttle is the bottleneck. IOW, worry about that last.
      Will do, and i'll report back to everyone when I get some numbers as of where it stands currently

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      12-06-2011 10:07 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
      I spent over 10,000 dollars on my old MK2 coupe ABA track car and the most I dyno'd was 160whp. If you want 140whp, you'll atleast need:
      288 cam
      Lots of headwork
      +.5 compression HG
      A SRI
      Header/race DP
      2.5" straight exhaust
      Custom Software..
      etc.. Not an easy task.
      sounds like what my setup was

      ported polished OBDII german head, decked .002in surface
      TT 35mm intake valves TT 42mm Intake valves
      dual valve springs, Titiainum retainers, AEG lifters
      TT 276 cam
      BFI PEM stage 2
      LW flywheel
      LW crank pulley
      LW intermediate shaft gear
      LW alternator pulley
      deleted ac
      deleted ps
      OBX header
      42dd test pipe
      TT 2.25 catback with borla muffler

      made some good power and now its all for sale, gonna tripple what I made with the ABA now
      Mercedes benz VW Audi specialist: vag com and mercedes star diagnosis equipped
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    13. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-07-2011 08:41 PM #63
      I didn't realize it was a MK4 you guys were talking about. The ABA I built for my coupe was from a mk3 (obviously), lol.

    14. Member 02vwgolf's Avatar
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      12-07-2011 09:07 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
      I didn't realize it was a MK4 you guys were talking about. The ABA I built for my coupe was from a mk3 (obviously), lol.
      I think everyone else in here besides for me is talking about mk3's and older, I wish I had my 2.0 aeg in a mk3 gti

    15. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-10-2011 02:47 PM #65
      Updated some info. This thread is a MK3 ABA thread; that's why it's lacking info on the MK4 engines.

    16. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-16-2011 01:52 PM #66
      buuuuuuuuump

    17. 12-16-2011 06:29 PM #67
      What capabilities do you have to read the air/fuel ratio? And how can you set it to what you want? This is what I'm finding as one of the keys to making good power and power where you want it.

    18. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-17-2011 10:34 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by ny_fam View Post
      What capabilities do you have to read the air/fuel ratio? And how can you set it to what you want? This is what I'm finding as one of the keys to making good power and power where you want it.
      There are several videos about installing a A/F ratio gauge in your car on YouTube, I'm pretty sure it's basically just an o2 sensor.

    19. 12-18-2011 03:50 PM #69
      Are these gauges the common way to tune? or are they just toys. Most of the posts I see the mention of a chip upgrade. It would seem these are blind upgrades unless you have a measured record of what the fuel is actually doing. I understand that you can use a PC to connect to the OBDI &II computers to read the air fuel ratio.
      I know that with MegaSquirt you need to use a computer to read the air fuel ratio among other values to develop the tune. But the guys with MegaSquirt running are the only ones who talk about using the air fuel ratios in their tuning.

    20. 12-18-2011 04:54 PM #70
      The box tunes are just the basic set ups tuned on, what I consider, every day mods. Cam, exhaust, intake. Ignition is sweetened up for the bigger cams, as well as the fueling. Technically, you shouldnt need a wideband for it. I consider a wide-band set-up (I used the AEM UEGO) a necessary mod for every built motor. Not just to see what your fueling is doing, but to also aid in diagnosing issues you encounter along the way. It can tell you O2 and MAF issues immediately. Another think i had was a vacuum gauge. Sounds silly, but it also aids in any potential issues you might encounter.

    21. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      12-19-2011 06:30 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by ny_fam View Post
      Are these gauges the common way to tune? or are they just toys. Most of the posts I see the mention of a chip upgrade. It would seem these are blind upgrades unless you have a measured record of what the fuel is actually doing. I understand that you can use a PC to connect to the OBDI &II computers to read the air fuel ratio.
      I know that with MegaSquirt you need to use a computer to read the air fuel ratio among other values to develop the tune. But the guys with MegaSquirt running are the only ones who talk about using the air fuel ratios in their tuning.
      I consider a wideband O2 sensor an essential tool to tune with. Doesn't matter if it's carbs, CIS or standalone. With MegaSquirt and a wideband the tuning process has become crazy easy. TunerStudioMS (one of the tuning software programs for MS) has an outstanding autotune feature. Set up your Air/Fuel ratio target table, turn on the autotune function, and go drive or strap it to a dyno. Now this only tunes FUEL, you still have to deal with tuning spark tables but it still makes things much simpler.
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      12-20-2011 01:23 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      . Another thing i had was a vacuum gauge. Sounds silly, but it also aids in any potential issues you might encounter.
      I agree with that. In my Track Coupe, it had the centre console made into a gauge cluster of sorts. In it are:

      Oil PSI h20 Temp Wideband
      Vacuum Oil Temp Volts
      Pyrometer Shiftlight

      The vacuum gauge helped on one occasion, and I liked seeing it go zonkers when I floored it.

    23. 12-20-2011 01:46 PM #73
      I originally installed it for a ram air setup I was testing. Never saw any positive pressure. Not enough funds to go any further, plus ram air only takes effect above 110mph. (slightly unrealistic in every day driving conditions lol)



    24. Banned Hurt's Avatar
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      12-20-2011 03:46 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by 911_fan View Post
      I originally installed it for a ram air setup I was testing. Never saw any positive pressure. Not enough funds to go any further, plus ram air only takes effect above 110mph. (slightly unrealistic in every day driving conditions lol)
      110?! I thought it was much lower than that. No positive pressure at all at around 40-45? I've seen so many different ram-air set ups on track cars. I'd imagine they'd be better performing.

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      12-21-2011 09:17 AM #75
      I saw gains with a headlight intake, and I only trapped 111 2x, and 112 once.

      But yea, the dailyability thing...

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