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    Thread: NEW EA888 1.8 TSI / 2.0 TSI Engine Details

    1. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      10-20-2011 05:03 AM #1
      Will use this thread to blog / compile all the technical data for the new 2014 2.0 TSI / 1.8 TSI motors coming in the MKVII VW Golf GTI/Jetta & Audi A4 B9.

      So far we know:
      • Direct injection & manifold injection (no more catch cans yaaah)
      • Canister type oil filter (no bueno)
      • Electric water pump with mechanical drive
      • Cylinder head is casted with integrated manifold - this will aid in overall weight reduction as turbocharger bolts directly to cylinder head




      Last edited by Issam Abed; 12-31-2011 at 03:35 PM.

    2. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-20-2011 12:29 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Arin,
      if you have any info like you did in the last EA888 thread , post away
      I have more information than I can actually share.
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    3. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      10-20-2011 12:55 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      I have more information than I can actually share.
      Crankcase sir!

    4. 10-20-2011 01:51 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Will use this thread to blog / compile all the technical data for the new 2.0 TSI / 1.8 TSI motors.

      So far we know:
      • Direct injection & manifold injection (no more catch cans yaaah)
      • Canister type oil filter (no bueno)
      • Electric water pump with mechanical drive
      • Cylinder head is casted with integrated manifold - this will aid in overall weight reduction as turbocharger bolts directly to cylinder head



      Arin,
      if you have any info like you did in the last EA888 thread , post away

      Is the next GTI going to come with a turbo that basically can't be swapped out...?

    5. Member 2k4golfgen4's Avatar
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      10-20-2011 02:33 PM #5
      I wonder how that Electrical Water Pump will do, long term wise?...has any other manufacturer used that method before?

    6. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-20-2011 02:35 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by HalvieCuw View Post
      Is the next GTI going to come with a turbo that basically can't be swapped out...?
      It can be swapped but it's not going to be like anything you've seen before.

      Upgrades are going to really separate the men from the children. ;-)
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    7. Member ViRtUaLheretic's Avatar
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      10-20-2011 04:06 PM #7
      sounds expensive
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    8. Member woofie2's Avatar
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      something new coming soon
      10-20-2011 06:26 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by ViRtUaLheretic View Post
      sounds expensive
      each generation newer is more expensive until people figure out the mods and how to install them.

    9. Member soze's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 01:24 AM #9
      sub'ed
      .: 2008.5 United Gray DSG GTI 4-door :.

      BASIC TSI INFO/ACRONYMS/FAQ

    10. Member woofie2's Avatar
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      something new coming soon
      10-21-2011 10:39 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by 2k4golfgen4 View Post
      I wonder how that Electrical Water Pump will do, long term wise?...has any other manufacturer used that method before?
      That will be interesting to see, I hope they at least put it where it can be swapped without changing the timing belt or other major disassembly to get to it.

      So the turbo is going to a turbo plus exhaust manifold? similar to the TDI?
      which is not much of anything to swap out for bigger, there are lots of different ones to choose from, then some go with a tuned manifold and a really big turbo.

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      10-21-2011 02:19 PM #11
      I think BMW has some electric water pumps, they also have some electrical (motor) controlled water thermostats (so they can actively control the engine operating temperature).

    12. Member DasCC's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 02:45 PM #12
      *subscribed*
      Is there a self study for this engine in a PDF ?


      Typos courtesy of iPhone 4 using Tapatalk

    13. Member ryan mills's Avatar
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      10-21-2011 07:58 PM #13
      MY 335 has the whole electric waterpump deal, seems to work well. So there is a second generation of the EA888 engine coming out? Is the turbo going to be a dual scroll jobbie like the new BMW N20 engine? Where is this info coming from?

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      10-27-2011 09:28 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      Upgrades are going to really separate the men from the children. ;-)
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      keep it on topic sir
      BT MK6 GTI Build Thread

    15. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-27-2011 10:58 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by lugubre3645 View Post
      *subscribed*
      Is there a self study for this engine in a PDF ?


      Typos courtesy of iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
      No. They aren't even finished tuning it yet.
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      10-27-2011 12:25 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by lugubre3645 View Post
      *subscribed*
      Is there a self study for this engine in a PDF ?
      Did anyone post this yet ? https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/m...are/18TFSI.pdf
      [edit] or this.. http://www.aachen-colloquium.com/pdf...Wurms_Audi.pdf

      Briefly details the integrated exhaust manifold and electric water pump.
      Last edited by Jrok; 10-27-2011 at 12:33 PM.

    17. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      10-27-2011 02:28 PM #17
      so i got a question. im an engineer, but by no means an expert in engine design.

      why woudl you want to cool the exuast gas BEFORE the turbocharger? reading that my document that was my understanding. seems to me your just pumping away energy then out the radiator, instead of funneling it through the turbocharger. the entire point of the turbocharger being to recycle the waste heat (energy) in the exaust and turn it into something useful - boost. thus the jump in both performance and fuel economy.

      but cooling the exuast before it gets to the turbo saps out a bunch of that energy.

      so why are they doing that?
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      Something has gone horribly, horribly wrong when cockerpunk is representing the voice of reason. Holy ****.

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      10-27-2011 02:31 PM #18
      I dont get this:

      "This water-cooled exhaust manifold means that the need for full load enrichment is eliminated almost entirely."

      This doesnt make any sense. Unless the turbo is the weak point of the entire system, why would you reduce air volume (by reducing temperature) before the turbocharger?

      edit: ^^^ lol beat me to it, im also an engineer and dont get it

    19. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      10-27-2011 02:52 PM #19
      In order to maximize fuel economy and to reduce hydrocarbons your ECU will instruct the fueling system to run at lambda 1, which is around 14.7:1 air fuel ratio for pump fuel. The only problem with this from an OEM stand point is Lambda 1 is very lean and will result in extremely hot exhaust gasses, especially under load. This is especially true on a turbocharged engine. In order to protect the turbo from excessive EGTs, the ECU will enter into component protection, which enriches the air fuel ratio by dropping lambda to as low as .6x on some models. Doing so will produce higher levels of hydrocarbons, increase fuel consumption and potentially decrease power.

      By cooling the exhaust gasses before they reach the turbocharger, they are able to reduce the risk of damaging the turbo, which means they can run near lambda 1, even in higher load situations.

      As emissions laws get greater and greater around the world each year, let's hope VAG continues to be on the forefront of new technologies and techniques designed to increase fuel mileage and decrease emissions without greatly impacting performance.
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    20. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      10-27-2011 02:55 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      In order to maximize fuel economy and to reduce hydrocarbons your ECU will instruct the fueling system to run at lambda 1, which is around 14.7:1 air fuel ratio for pump fuel. The only problem with this from an OEM stand point is Lambda 1 is very lean and will result in extremely hot exhaust gasses, especially under load. This is especially true on a turbocharged engine. In order to protect the turbo from excessive EGTs, the ECU will enter into component protection, which enriches the air fuel ratio by dropping lambda to as low as .6x on some models. Doing so will produce higher levels of hydrocarbons, increase fuel consumption and potentially decrease power.

      By cooling the exhaust gasses before they reach the turbocharger, they are able to reduce the risk of damaging the turbo, which means they can run near lambda 1, even in higher load situations.

      As emissions laws get greater and greater around the world each year, let's hope VAG continues to be on the forefront of new technologies and techniques designed to increase fuel mileage and decrease emissions without greatly impacting performance.
      ah, ok, they are worried about overheating the turbo. that makes sense.

      thanks
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for a GTI View Post
      Something has gone horribly, horribly wrong when cockerpunk is representing the voice of reason. Holy ****.

    21. Member ryan mills's Avatar
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      11-01-2011 10:33 PM #21
      Wouldn't it take a massive radiator to disperse the heat generated from trying to cool the exhaust gas? Also, I was under the impression that if you're cooling the exhaust before the turbo, you would also be reducing power. I guess it really does all work, but it's still a bit strange to me.
      Last edited by ryan mills; 11-01-2011 at 10:46 PM.

    22. 11-01-2011 11:32 PM #22
      Sounds like the newer revisions may not be up to the task of everyday high boost.. It has a lot of nice efficiency tricks and interesting techniques (mani built into head) but they are thinning out a lot of the parts of the motor to reduce weight.. Im no engineer but when modified won't it be less reliable with thinner cylinder walls, etc?

    23. Member DRedman45's Avatar
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      11-02-2011 12:59 AM #23
      this integrated head-exhaust manifold is making me sad...bye bye big turbo

    24. 11-02-2011 04:39 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Issam Abed View Post
      Direct injection & manifold injection (no more catch cans yaaah)
      Please explain

    25. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      11-02-2011 04:44 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by aladro View Post
      Please explain
      The thought there is fuel will be sprayed directly onto the intake valves, cleaning them off like they were on older port injected engines.
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      11-08-2011 03:38 PM #26
      cool stuff sub'd
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    27. Member ryan mills's Avatar
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      11-08-2011 05:18 PM #27
      The first .pdf states that the engine is a 1.8L. So it's another 1.8T! watch out world, it's going to be unstoppable!
      It looks like the waterpump is still going to be mechanically driven from the balance shafts on a toothed belt. I would think an electric waterpump would be the way to go. I'm thinking my next car might have BMW's new n20 engine, unless this one turns out to be totally awesome.
      Now look at that -an electric wastegate. That's different!
      Last edited by ryan mills; 11-08-2011 at 05:30 PM.

    28. 11-10-2011 02:04 PM #28
      This is all pretty interesting stuff. It looks like the dramatically increased the torque. It also appears that they will be using a twinscroll turbo charger that bolts directly to the head.

      The exhuast manifold is contained within the head and has coolant jackets all around it. For me, I wouldn't own a turbo VW/Audi with out APR software. I'm concerned that there will be heating issues with cranking up the boost on a turbo that bolts directly to the head rather than being separated by a conventional manifold. But, then again, I know nothing.

      This motor might be a great pallet for the tuners to work with. There seem to be some interesting benefits:

      -It's a few pounds lighter (about 9lbs, give or take)
      -can produce more torque
      -varible cam timing on both cams
      -has both port and direct injection
      -twin scroll turbo charging

      Only time will tell, hopefully this will be combined with a lighter weight MK7 GTI.

      -s

    29. Forum Sponsor Arin@APR's Avatar
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      11-10-2011 02:19 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by spessx View Post
      I'm concerned that there will be heating issues with cranking up the boost on a turbo that bolts directly to the head rather than being separated by a conventional manifold. But, then again, I know nothing.
      This design has coolant running through the hot side, so it would keep it cooler than the traditional setup.
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    30. 11-10-2011 02:39 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by spessx View Post
      This is all pretty interesting stuff. It looks like the dramatically increased the torque. It also appears that they will be using a twinscroll turbo charger that bolts directly to the head.

      The exhuast manifold is contained within the head and has coolant jackets all around it. For me, I wouldn't own a turbo VW/Audi with out APR software. I'm concerned that there will be heating issues with cranking up the boost on a turbo that bolts directly to the head rather than being separated by a conventional manifold. But, then again, I know nothing.

      This motor might be a great pallet for the tuners to work with. There seem to be some interesting benefits:

      -It's a few pounds lighter (about 9lbs, give or take)
      -can produce more torque
      -varible cam timing on both cams
      -has both port and direct injection
      -twin scroll turbo charging

      Only time will tell, hopefully this will be combined with a lighter weight MK7 GTI.

      -s
      I just read the 2nd link posted above. Apparently the turbo is NOT twin scroll. I had assumed that because the head separated opposing exhaust pulses from different cylinders.

      The electronic waste gate thing is definitely neat though!

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      11-15-2011 07:57 AM #31
      I see one item a company like ina might wanna design immediately since the community likes the lows.
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    32. Member Issam Abed's Avatar
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      11-21-2011 08:39 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by donjuan1jr View Post
      I see one item a company like ina might wanna design immediately since the community likes the lows.
      We see a few!

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      11-21-2011 01:00 PM #33
      Subscribed ! Things are going to get interesting real fast

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      12-30-2011 04:43 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
      The thought there is fuel will be sprayed directly onto the intake valves, cleaning them off like they were on older port injected engines.
      Yes, as I posted yesterday in the MkVI forum, this new EA888 design is of great significance to us direct injected 2.0TSI guys who worry about intake valve carbon build-up. The newly incorporated Dual Injection System utilizes twin injectors for each cylinder. A high pressure injector (200 bar) located directly inside the combustion chamber activates under heavy load and a new low pressure injector integrated inside the VTS port during light loads. These low pressure injectors inside the VTS will now bathe the intake valves with fresh detergent gasolines thus cleaning them and the flaps as we drive...

      That's an admission of guilt that our current set-up is flawed, isn't it?

      If this new engine, the EA888 is ever transformed into higher displacements other than 1.8L, it will be a significant achievement for the VW Group.




      The Dual Injection System is a dynamic breakthrough for the reasons stated, even though it will cost more.



      The Electro-Powered Thermostat and Waste-gate appear to be great ideas, but only time will prove their dependability..

      Last edited by VWRedux; 01-02-2012 at 01:06 PM.
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      12-30-2011 06:58 PM #35

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