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    Thread: Second-hand MS, need guidance

    1. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 03:22 AM #1
      I picked up this ms board a while back and i can now park my jetta for a while so i'm ready to install the megasquirt, i believe the board is a MS1 v2.2 but not exactly sure because on what i believe is the main chip it says MSV30 but the actual circuit board itself has v2.2 printed on it. So i guess thats my first question and then my next question is what would be the best path from here with what i have: completely stock 1.8 16v, I have a fuel rail, g60 injectors, fpr, throttle body w/ tps, relay board (which i'm leaning toward not using, opinions?) a flyback-damp board??, and a MSNS_Extra Daughter Board V2.1 (i'm guessing i dont need this but can use it in the future for add-on things?). I have done a lot of reading and research im just trying to figure out the best, easiest, cheapest way to get the megasquirt installed and am not exactly sure what i got here in front of me. From the reading/research that I have done I would like to run ignition off of the hall sensor on the stock distributor but i am open to other ideas as well. Thank you for any help

    2. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 04:07 AM #2
      here are a couple pics of the megasquirt board, it looks like there are jumpers between xg1 and d5?
      r10 and r11, negative side of d17 and x11, and a resistor (i think) from negative side of d17 to r23. not sure if that helps out at all also d8 looks like it might be different from factory specs though im not sure, just confused here looking at all these different schematics for ignition and not sure what to do.




    3. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 05:53 AM #3
      Yes that is definately and MS1 with a V2.2 mainboard. As far as the relay board goes.... don't use it.
      Do you know what kind of car this MS was installed on before? Maybe Paul can chime in on the mods as I generally avoid V2.2 mainboards.
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    4. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 10:15 AM #4
      Looks like a spark modded 2.2 I'd have to have better pictures or descriptions of the exact jumpers to tell you what is where. On first glance though hall input looks like it's on 24 as there's no 5v jumper to that pad like the older mods Patatron used. Spark looks like 27 maybe, but hard to say for sure, what X# is the jumper on the bottom of the board to?

      Is the extra board the Glenn's Garage/error* one? If so it's pretty cool, I think I have some docs on my lab computer for it.
      -Paul
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    5. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 12:18 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Is the extra board the Glenn's Garage/error* one? If so it's pretty cool, I think I have some docs on my lab computer for it.

      Agreed on the cool factor. My best friend has one sitting in his pile of miscellaneous MS parts and just a cursory glance at it kinda says OH WOW!
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    6. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 02:13 PM #6
      Thanks for the quick replies guys! Ok I wont use the relay board, didnt really think it was the best way to do it anyway. I believe it was used on a 2.0 16v in a MK1 using the stock distributor but I am not 100% sure on that.

      I will work on getting a better picture later today and the long jumper on the backside goes from neg d17 to x11. I dont see Glenn's Garage/error anywhere on the extra board, it does say Designed by J HUH and G HOAG. i'll get a picture of that too. Again thanks for all the help, very much appreciated.

    7. Member Prof315's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 02:42 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by handyalbert11 View Post
      Thanks for the quick replies guys! Ok I wont use the relay board, didnt really think it was the best way to do it anyway. I believe it was used on a 2.0 16v in a MK1 using the stock distributor but I am not 100% sure on that.

      I will work on getting a better picture later today and the long jumper on the backside goes from neg d17 to x11. I dont see Glenn's Garage/error anywhere on the extra board, it does say Designed by J HUH and G HOAG. i'll get a picture of that too. Again thanks for all the help, very much appreciated.
      That's the Glen's board. G HOAG is Glen Hoag.
      The Professor
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    8. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 05:42 PM #8


      whod you buy that from... that looks suspiciously like one i may have worked on 5 years ago, maybe longer as it looks to have a silver case - or maybe the case was swapped as i definitely dont remember it having any other boards... i try to avoid exotic v2.2 setups

      anyway, if thats the case hall input is on 24, output should be on 27... but i dont remember exactly
      and those pictures are really dark so i cant tell you whether it was made to go to an msd or a bosch ignition module, but it looks like it says 2-307 under the chip? if so, i can look it up at the shop and see who/what it was made for...
      Last edited by ValveCoverGasket; 11-15-2011 at 05:44 PM.

    9. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 05:54 PM #9
      Not sure exactly who I got it from, it was a while back, somebody in the portland area. It is in a silver case and does say 2-307 under the chip. If you could look it up that would be awesome and i'll get some better pictures this evening.

    10. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 06:06 PM #10
      Ok got some better pictures:





      And the Daughter Board just because:


    11. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 06:13 PM #11
      thats definitely my hand writing under the chip but doesnt look like anything i would have built - typically only use clear LEDs and black cases.
      may have been something that got sent up for repair though... ill see what i can dig up at the shop.

      interesting stuff how these things tend to circulate throughout the community

    12. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 09:32 PM #12
      looks like it was one i fixed. sent up from oregon for having no communication, we put a new chip in it in '08

    13. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      11-15-2011 09:44 PM #13
      Too funny.

      That daughter board makes things a lot easier to add on a 2.2. I will try and find my docs on it.
      -Paul
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    14. 11-15-2011 11:03 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Too funny.

      That daughter board makes things a lot easier to add on a 2.2. I will try and find my docs on it.
      I have that daughter board also - here's my Google Docs page on it, with links to schematics etc
      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...t2KhYfuis/edit

    15. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-16-2011 01:54 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by need_a_VR6 View Post
      Too funny.

      no kidding... i did a double take when i saw the hand writing was tough to see in the first shots.

    16. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-16-2011 02:11 AM #16
      so looking through the ms extra manual more it looks to be modded according to that manual for hall sensor trigger and spark output using a bosch ignition control module, is that correct? and if so is that a good way to run on a 16v or should i do it differently? Again thanks for all the help

    17. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-16-2011 02:28 AM #17
      no reason to screw with it if its all set up, and the bosch modules are cheap/free

    18. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-17-2011 05:37 PM #18
      ok, so do i need to connect the map sensor using this setup? i'm pretty sure I do but I thought I read somewhere that its not necessary but cant find that now

    19. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-17-2011 05:48 PM #19
      absolutely

    20. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-17-2011 07:18 PM #20
      thanks for the quick replies starting on the wiring now and my connector has ground wires from 15-19 but the schematic shows only 19 as ground. should i ground my sensors through each one individually and if so does it matter which goes where or should i just wire all to pin 19?

    21. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      11-17-2011 09:14 PM #21
      I ground each sensor to a ground bar on the head (abas and vr6s have decent ones) and run all the ms grounds to the same spot. You will want 4-5 grounds for a typical install.
      -Paul
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    22. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-19-2011 02:45 AM #22
      well thanks to everybody's help here got it started and idling tonight, I was going to use the ignition map for the 2.0 stock 16v from spitfireefi.com but the values being between 62 and 156 is confusing me slightly what are these numbers? i'm thinking they are something different than degrees?

    23. Member SirSpectre's Avatar
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      11-19-2011 09:21 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by handyalbert11 View Post
      well thanks to everybody's help here got it started and idling tonight, I was going to use the ignition map for the 2.0 stock 16v from spitfireefi.com but the values being between 62 and 156 is confusing me slightly what are these numbers? i'm thinking they are something different than degrees?
      If you see the numbers on the left that Vac pressure. 62 to 162 sounds like its super charged for that map. If you are NA do from like 25 to 98. And done use that map

      Fuel map will be tricky but I like to start it all at 50 and adjust up and down from there. If you have Tuner Studio full version, use VE analyze to tune fuel. That will get it close. Spark is a little trickier but keep the tables the same scale.

    24. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      11-19-2011 12:18 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by handyalbert11 View Post
      well thanks to everybody's help here got it started and idling tonight, I was going to use the ignition map for the 2.0 stock 16v from spitfireefi.com but the values being between 62 and 156 is confusing me slightly what are these numbers? i'm thinking they are something different than degrees?
      Did you right click and save target as, or did you open the file straight from the site? If you just click on the link without saving it it'll open the raw file and it'll look odd but once you import it into your tuning window the numbers will be scaled properly.

    25. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-19-2011 02:54 PM #25
      i did the right click and save target as, but just opened it with notepad, can't seem to figure out how to import it into TS, probably really simple i'm just not seeing it. I even tried downloading the .msq file but it seems like it doesnt download as an actual msq file but something else

      Ok nevermind, I guess I just had to post on here to figure it out, when I would download the file my computer would just change it to an HTML doc because it didnt know what it was? so i just had to add the .msq or .vex to the end of the file name and it works perfect now and makes sense in the table.
      Last edited by handyalbert11; 11-19-2011 at 03:06 PM.

    26. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      11-22-2011 07:47 PM #26
      Well I got it running and have driven it a very small amount, only issue now is i'm not getting any o2 reading, I'm just using the stock narrowband sensor, on the rear bank o2 voltage im getting around 4.7 volts, is this the right gauge to be looking at? do i have something wired wrong? I tried looking at several other gauges such as lambda and others and didnt see anything that seemed to be working, checked the settings in TS and couldn't find anything that looked incorrect, not sure what to do from here. Also I have just been tuning the idle for the lowest kpa value, is that the best I can do for now without a wideband? I appreciate any help.

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      11-22-2011 09:14 PM #27
      When you made a new project did you select narrowband sensor? After that you have to unlock calibration in tools and calibrate the AFR table. Select narrowband sensor.

      As for Kpa table scale, go a few under your idle to start. My car idles at 45 Kpa but I hit 30 when cruising a lot. My table starts at 25.

      Then get a wideband ASAP! it makes tuning 9875987578967098657647564564% easier

    28. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      03-24-2012 07:31 PM #28
      Well I finally got myself a wideband sensor and have been tuning it the last week or so. It runs so much better than it ever did previously, really happy I switched to MS . Went to try emissions today and I passed all except for HydroCarbon at idle, limit is 220 and I was at 325. Although my CO% at idle was .05. My AFR was right around 14.8 at idle but when I sat in line waiting and it got a little hotter it slowly changed to around 16.2-16.5. I also realized afterwards I never gave my O2 sensor any authority over the fuel map after I finished my datalogging . Overall I'm really happy but am looking for any ideas on how to get the idle emissions down enough to pass.

    29. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      03-24-2012 09:09 PM #29
      High hc is misfires, probably past the lean limit. Get itto stoich or at least closer and you will be gold.
      -Paul
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    30. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      03-24-2012 09:53 PM #30
      That makes sense, im able to get stoich at normal idle temps (180) but at higher temps like sitting in traffic it starts to progressively get leaner. So im not sure how to fix that.

    31. Geriatric Member need_a_VR6's Avatar
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      03-25-2012 08:55 AM #31
      Does iat or clt creep up? Or did the fans come on and cause a voltage drop?
      -Paul
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    32. Member handyalbert11's Avatar
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      03-25-2012 02:08 PM #32
      I did not notice what iat was doing but clt was definitely creeping up and the radiator fans cycled a few times but I didn't notice the afr change at all when the fan would turn on.

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