FWD drift video..how?

[rlsib16]

http://www.g-speed.com/eg2/videos/drift2.wmv 18.6mb(sorry its kinda big 56kers)
how does he hold his drifts like that? i know you can pull the e-brake on fwd cars to slide the backend around but how does he keep the drift going?

[2.FOH!!]

Left foot braking - Keep on the gas while applying a little brake
pressure with your left foot. Weight transfers to front, back end gets
light & comes around. Road racers do it to settle the car down in the turns & reduce plow(fwd). Rally drivers do it to get the tail out so
they're pointed in the right direction sooner and therefore can get
on the gas (full throttle) sooner. Someone else can explain it much better.

I do it all the time...........IN MY DREAMS!


[Modified by 2.DOH!!, 8:52 AM 10-17-2002]

[Obin Robinson]

anyone know Taber Street in Ithaca? i used to swing the rear end out on the Scirocco 16V every day using this method:

1) gas hard in 2nd gear
2) hard right turn and simultaneous lift off of gas pedal followed 1/4 second later by snap countersteer
3) gas hard (still in 2nd gear)
4) rotate car back to correct direction

it's called lift-off oversteer and then you "power out" of it.

front wheel drift

by the way, it kills your tires!

obin

[AKADriver]

It takes a lot of skill and a very well balanced car. People don't appreciate FF drifting because it never looks quite as impressive, but when you can make a FF dance like an average FR then you're doing very, very good!

Integra Type-Rs, rear swaybar equipped Neons, and probably some others can be thrown into a drift as delivered... I used to get plenty of lift throttle oversteer in my Neon, but not a full drift (I was losing traction in mid-corner, not corner entry), someone with more skill and a better feel for weight transfer could probably do a better job unloading the rear than I did. Since this Civic shares a chassis with the ITR it shouldn't be hard to modify the suspension for better balance.

[coldweatherblue]

there is really no way to drift in a FWD car. You can do power slides and stuff though... I used to practice lift-off oversteer all the time in my Golf... it's exactly how Obin described it. You go around a corner accelerating hard in 2nd (you can do this in a higher gear too, but 2nd is the easiest, imo), then let off the throttle, increase the turn, and the back end should come around.

It's all about weight transfer. You want the weight to be moving over the front wheels, so the back will slide around. In the video you can see when the weight shifts over the front axles, it's right before the rear slides around. Good luck!

[WhatBlueVW]

First of all, it doesn't look to me like the person is left foot braking or using the e-brake, so he is probbaly throttle lifting.

Secondly, it looks a bit like he is using different tires front and back which implies that he might have also done some suspension modifications (but no negative camber or slamming, or stuff like that you usually see in drift competitions).

Thirdly, while some are just oversteer slides (can't be a powerslide... and yes that's also technically a drift), he does sustain a pretty good four wheel drift at least once in the video.

It's not that hard to do drifts in FWD... Okay, harder than on a RWD, but...

You can sustain donuts in a FWD, and he could have if he knew how to keep the right pressure on the throttle and not countersteer as much as he did (but I think he did that to show off). My personal best is one and a half circle on my stock suspensioned and tire-ed Jetta. Which was initiated purely on throttle lift (can't really do it any other way due to the throttle lag on drive by wire in these things).

[GT17V]

add to the list the 2000+ Celica GT & GT-S (seen a GT do it at the autocross) and also the old Escorts.

[cougar]

quote:

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by the way, it kills your tires!

obin

---

Can't this be said about pretty much any drifting? I mean.. the tires are moving in a different direction than the rest of the car.. that's no good

[WhatBlueVW]

Okay, I don't know what kind of car you drive, and since you ask about techniques, I will write out how I did the donut in the Jetta:

You can do in first or second gear, I've done it in either. First is a bit more twitchy so it's easier to initiate, but harder to hold. The longest one I did was done in second gear.

You take the gear right up to the redline. Around 4000 rpms or so you ease into a turn as you are still accelarating so that you are turning at your limit (tires squeeling but not really understeering... at the very limit it might help to understeer just a little bit). When you get to redline (careful, because VW lets you overshoot) lift suddenly off the throttle and the car immediately does the dog pissing position (one rear wheel off the ground) and goes into a rather violent oversteer (comparatively anyway). Keep on letting it spin to the perfect angle and get back on the throttle. Too little of an angle and you will pull out, too steep... Well let's just say that unless you are spinning out or stopping there really is no too steep.

The key is to get as steep an angle as possible without letting the revs get too low. I'd say around 4000 rpms as a ballpark is when you want to be getting on the throttle. The rest is just throttle modulation to just the right amount of pressure to keep the fronts spinning just a little bit while not so fast that your nose doesn't stay tucked in.

Your steering angle should range from pointing straight ahead to just a bit of countersteer.

Well, that's about it... Find a huge parking lot and have fun!

[Obin Robinson]

quote:

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by the way, it kills your tires!

obin

Can't this be said about pretty much any drifting? I mean.. the tires are moving in a different direction than the rest of the car.. that's no good

---

do it on wet pavement or gravel and it's easier on tires. but the real thing to do if you want to drift is put really HARD compound tires on the back. use snow tires if possible. then get some sticky ones on the front.

i am going to take a trip to the junkyard to pick up some $5 tires maybe in a month or so. i have some spare rims i could mount them to. all i need to do is mount these cheap hard tires on the rear and i'll be the "crazy Type-GTI drifto action-san."

obin

[2.FOH!!]

quote:

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...i have some spare rims i could mount them to. all i need to do is mount these cheap hard tires on the rear and i'll be the "crazy Type-GTI drifto action-san."

---

You bring up a good point. I was driving my sisters Protege a while back & she had just bought 2 new tires, which they put on the front. It was a bit rainy out, & the back end kept steppin out. I wasn't really
going that fast either. Fun, but not the 'safest' set up I imagine.

Mark

[Daemon42]

BTW, snow tires are very soft compound. Often more soft than high perf rubber.
Get em heated up with a turn or two and they turn to goo. I know this.. because.. well.. let's just
say I know this. They'd work for this application, but not for long.

Running some high perf tires on the front and A/S on the back at high pressure
should be enough to duplicate what he's doing in the video (and I suspect is
what he does do). It indeed does not look like he's left foot or hand braking.
If he was, I'm pretty sure you'd see the inside rear tire locking up and smoking
bigtime. The drifts he's doing look like fairly well modulated lift throttle oversteer.
I used to do the same thing in my Saab 99 with new tires on the front, and balding
tires on the back.

As for doing it in the rain. I've found that usually the front tires just don't
maintain enough grip relative to the front to let it happen in the rain.
VW's in particular need to get up on 3 wheels to swing around like that, and
when it's wet, they generally can't (not for lack of trying on my part).

Gravel is a different story. You lift off the throttle with the front tires turned
hard and the side of the tires digs deep into the gravel and the rear will come
right around. I've been surprised a couple times barrelling down some
cool twisty paved road I've never been on before, (always at night) and
had it suddenly turn to gravel and I'll lift off to drop to a reasonable speed
and the rear end is *all over* the place. I could have a lot of
fun with my suspension in the gravel, or I could kill myself. Seems to
be pretty close to a little of both everytime it happens.

I'd love to see one of those full spins caught on video. With my Falken Azenis tires
there's simply no hope of getting the rear end that far out of control./

ian

[speedinghonda]

I wonder how many people are gonna try this on their way home from work

[TurboC]

You can drift a FWD car, people who say otherwise are lying.... The majority of rally cars are FWD.... Here is how you would do it on gravel (or pavement, but you would need alot more momentum)

Accelerate into a corner
turn sharp, and quickly in the opposite direction of the apex....
and quickly turn back towards the center/inside of the corner, you have no effectively transfered momentum, and a ton of weight to the front outside wheel, digging it into the surface, and creating a pivot point....

to properly execute the drift/slide whatever, as soon as you feel the rear end slightly unweight, and the front outside tire start to push, begin modulating the brake with your left foot, and the gas with your right... You will probably need to initiate slide with sharp application of the brake, and quick application of the throttle at the moment of tire bite...

This technique is called the Scandanavian Slide, of Finnish Flick... It is very sucessfull, and works great. You will see almost all rally drivers implement it in someway (except those pesky active diff equipped WRC cars)

You can slide or, drift, perfectly around many a corner with this technique.

[B3_Golde]

obin- dont forget a camera!

[High Psi VR6]

Cool stuff


[Modified by High Psi VR6, 8:07 PM 10-18-2002]

[KingVR]

quote:

---

by the way, it kills your tires!

obin

Can't this be said about pretty much any drifting? I mean.. the tires are moving in a different direction than the rest of the car.. that's no good

do it on wet pavement or gravel and it's easier on tires. but the real thing to do if you want to drift is put really HARD compound tires on the back. use snow tires if possible. then get some sticky ones on the front.

i am going to take a trip to the junkyard to pick up some $5 tires maybe in a month or so. i have some spare rims i could mount them to. all i need to do is mount these cheap hard tires on the rear and i'll be the "crazy Type-GTI drifto action-san."

obin

---

I have a better idea!! Put some cafeteria trays under the rear tires and lock your E-Brake. They last about a minute till they burn through.

Video here!

You may need the latest codec in order to view it. My favorite is the zoom in on the rear wheels when he says: "Them 10's! I know I keep them clean YO!"

-DVScott

[Natty]

quote:

---

by the way, it kills your tires!

obin

Can't this be said about pretty much any drifting? I mean.. the tires are moving in a different direction than the rest of the car.. that's no good

do it on wet pavement or gravel and it's easier on tires. but the real thing to do if you want to drift is put really HARD compound tires on the back. use snow tires if possible. then get some sticky ones on the front.

i am going to take a trip to the junkyard to pick up some $5 tires maybe in a month or so. i have some spare rims i could mount them to. all i need to do is mount these cheap hard tires on the rear and i'll be the "crazy Type-GTI drifto action-san."

obin

I have a better idea!! Put some cafeteria trays under the rear tires and lock your E-Brake. They last about a minute till they burn through.

Video here!

You may need the latest codec in order to view it. My favorite is the zoom in on the rear wheels when he says: "Them 10's! I know I keep them clean YO!"

-DVScott

---

When I worked at taco bell, we would tray surf. My manager would take us around the parking lot when no on else was there (like 2 am). You sit on a tray and hold on.
Jeff

[bc]

its about 40 times easier when it is wet about. I normally heel toe downshift then pull the ebrake to get the ass to slide, very violent but its always worked for me....

[JoeJetta91]

go try it... you'll figure it out for yourself

[Aw614]

Video doesn't work for me. I am using the new version of media player that is the beta version. I think it is 9

[_RevLimit_]

quote:

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Put some cafeteria trays under the rear tires and lock your E-Brake. They last about a minute till they burn through.

---

There's actually a website about this. I believe it's called tray-sliding.

Where's that video of Tiff Needle driving a Ford Puma when you need it?

_RevLimit_
aspiring "crazy Type-GTI dorifto action-san"

[impact]

Is it this? http://equinix.taner.net/topgear/ - Car of the year, 1997 MPG 14MB 2:05 2001.04.06 Ford Puma is Top Gear's Car Of The Year in 1997 - Tiff has some... FUN with it ;-)

[MartijnGizmo]

quote:

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Put some cafeteria trays under the rear tires and lock your E-Brake. They last about a minute till they burn through.

There's actually a website about this. I believe it's called tray-sliding.

---

Traydrifting, it's on the Pornstar-Clothing's website, including some video's:
http://www.pornstarclothing.com/images/storesite/video/trays2s.mpeg
http://www.pornstarclothing.com/images/storesite/video/trays1s.mpeg
http://www.pornstarclothing.com/images/storesite/video/trays1a.mpeg

[Veedubspeed04]

mmm... im' gunna go look for some trays now

[freddd]

Well I know what I'm doing tonight!

In tomorrow's paper:
" Fast food restaurants loose record number of food trays
Trays later found in mall parking lots."

[Bauzen]

quote:

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Well I know what I'm doing tonight!

In tomorrow's paper:
" Fast food restaurants loose record number of food trays
Trays later found in mall parking lots."

---

hehe

[Natty]

Man, I would try that, but my car would just keep going in a straight line. Cursed RWD

Maybe I'll steal a couple from the cafeteria tomarrow, I can test it out in the "Student commuter lot" where we have autocrosses. Excpet I'll have to put a couple of trays under my front tires, and I do value my steering....
Jeff

[Mabe]

Thats a nice vidieo. On one side it is very easy to get any car bent all sorts of ways when you have a large peice of tarmac to deal with. If he was driving like that around a turn like that and was able to guide the car well enough to maintain the drift through the turn I would be very impressed. Very hard. Drifting, expecally in a fwd car is of little use in any driving aside from on ice. The only real benifit to knowing how to is being able to bring your car out of one.

As far as the ****ty tires on the back idea...many of the URQuattro guys run 205 series front tires and 195 rear. Gives the car almost perfect balance according to them.


[Modified by AK-Mabe, 4:31 AM 10-20-2002]

[kbell26]

just be sure to do in a good clear, safe area. Man have you seen some of those Japanese Drifter cars?Not the cars you see in super street mind you. Everyone it seems had got a huge crack in the fender or a dent in the rear quarter panels, scratched up paint..... and a big story to go with each one they have They don't care at all how thier car looks.......

[nycamc]

I think there's a video with Tiff Needell from Top Gear (UK) driving a Ford Puma with two other people in the car with him. He was able to do all kinds of crazy stuff. Granted that the track was wet, but it is a tiny hatchback with 3 guys in it, though... He's good.

[MartijnGizmo]

quote:

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As far as the ****ty tires on the back idea...many of the URQuattro guys run 205 series front tires and 195 rear. Gives the car almost perfect balance according to them.

---

Right!!!!!

Check this article from the site from MTM (MotorenTechnik Mayer, a famous German Audituner):
http://www.mtmonline.de/S2/pr_gf_595.htm

"Kurios dabei die Reifenformate. Um in schnellen Kurven das quattro-typische Schieben über die Vorderräder zu verhindern, montieren die findigen Bayern an dieser Stelle einfach etwas breitere Räder. Vorne 265/35-18 auf 10 J x 18 Antera-Felgen, hinten tun's 235/40 auf „nur“ 81/2 Zoll breiten Alus. Das bringt unkompliziertes Handlung auf sehr hohem Geschwindigkeitsniveau. Dabei bleibt der Audi unter nahezu allen Fahrbedingungen traumhaft neutral und läßt sich spielend allein mit Gas und Bremse durch die Kurven zirkeln."

Translation: The tire formats seem to be strange at the same time. In order to prevent the Quattro-typical pushing over the front wheels in fast curves, the resourceful Bavarians simply mount somewhat wider wheels here. In front 265/35-18 on 10 J xs 18 Antera-rims, in the back there are some 235/40-18 on „only“ 8 1/2 wide custom-wheels. That brings uncomplicated handling on a very high speedlevel. At the same time the Audi remains dreamlike neutral under almost all load conditions and can be thrown trough corners only playing with gas and brakes.

So when even MTM does it, they can't be wrong.....

[MartijnGizmo]

quote:

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Man, I would try that, but my car would just keep going in a straight line. Cursed RWD

Maybe I'll steal a couple from the cafeteria tomarrow, I can test it out in the "Student commuter lot" where we have autocrosses. Excpet I'll have to put a couple of trays under my front tires, and I do value my steering....
Jeff

---

This remembers me of a great story from a friend of mine:

Some dude at his college wanted to do some 'impressive' handbrake-action in front of the college to impress some chicks. Fact is that he was driving a horrible Citroën BX, which is equiped with a handbrake that works on the frontwheels. So when he pulled it, he went straight into some bushes and damaged the enginemounts.....

Citroën BX:

[MartijnGizmo]

quote:

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mmm... im' gunna go look for some trays now

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We want video-footage!!!!!

[Uncle Carl]

I have a video of how well that lunch tray trick works, its small.
If anyone can host it for me its cool to see.