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Integrated Engineering's "Project 2.5L Engine Dyno" Build Up Thread

111K views 418 replies 79 participants last post by  Cherb32 
#1 ·
Hi guys! While we have some engine parts already available for the 2.5L, we are about to really get kicking on a *bunch* more. Since many of these parts will require power testing, we will be setting up a 2.5L on our in house Superflow 902 engine dyno. I'll be chronicling that build as well as the coming engine build & parts development all in this thread.


IE engine dyno.... this big power 1.8T is about to get shelved to make way for a 2.5L I5

Currently the plan (as of today) is to get this stock '09 2.5L we have mounted up. And that means getting off the top shelf!

Pete running the official IE engine lift


This is the new 2.5L I5 power plant for the engine dyno, this guy is going to see A LOT of cool stuff in the future.

We have decided to run totally stock accessories and go from there- so that means figuring out how to hold the dang motor into our ~ longitudinal dyno setup without any motor mounts coming in from the "sides" as traditional- so the fun starts.


As any good part, mock up starts with paper


The final engine mount solution drawn up and ready for prototype


If it does not work, looks like it could make a good kitchen counter decoration :laugh:

We also need to adapt our bellhousing, starter, and throwout bearing etc. I will cover that stuff here just for kicks. Then we will be wiring it up on AEM's new standalone ECU, which will give us fast, consistent control over the engine. Then the testing will commence, starting with tuning the stock 2.5L on pump fuel (91 for us) and working up from there. Somewhere in the middle we anticipate building the motor to turbo spec, and the R&D will continue.


We will also give you updates on other 2.5 projects not necessarily for the engine dyno, anyone guess what we are working on here?

So, hopefully I won't bore you guys to death and you will stay tuned :) You will have to understand however that some of these products take literally seasons to develop from idea to shelf part- hell we have some that the development time is over a year! So, don't get too crazy on me if the updates on a particular part aren't ultra frequent. :thumbup:
 
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#35 ·
They are trapped by the cam tray, so they would require the cams to be at least partially removed, but the chain would not have to come off and the motor would not have to be re-timed.

If you guys are ok with a little more expense I can see if there is room to make some sort of 2 piece setup... I bet you would need ninja fingers to assemble it in there though with the cam tray still on.

I mostly figured people could pop them in when they are installing a set of.... oh wait top secret. :laugh:

Whatever you guys want :)
 
#39 ·
Update:

Had time to work on the spacer today... Quick question, what would you guys prefer most, listed in order of most expensive to cheapest... 1) Same exact grooves as stock, so it will use OEM seals 2) Grooves for provided aftermarket O rings 3) A custom cut gasket...

Just need some feedback on what direction you guys would rather move in that direction and I will wrap this up. I also got the mill free today so I am going to machine that engine mount bracket and start getting the motor on the dyno.

 
#48 ·
It depends. Is this going to be the fix for the spray pattern issues on c2, and UMs flange. Thats what Im worried about. I was suggesting a phenolic spacer as a fix, not for cooling or whatever else these guys are wanting it for. Im doing the s/c setup and I want to do a return system, but your fuel rail is the only option, and I want to run the stock/oem spray pattern.
 
#45 · (Edited)
I had an interest in a phenolic gasket to keep the C2 SRI cool during extended 'idle' periods, but I found that once you start moving the manifold cools down rapidly.
*I'm basing these claims on whether or not the surface of the manifold was "cool" or "hot" to touch.

For a long while, I was communicating with a company that provided compressed teflon sheet and I was going to trace and cut my own but couldn't justify the time and effort involved.
Didn't seem worth it considering the manifold was always cool to touch after driving - even after extended periods of flogging.

Moreover, the stock manifold is a plastic composite. No need for a gasket on the stock manifold.

Having said that, I support IE and everything they're doing for the 2.5l engine. :thumbup:
 
#47 ·
Whatever is the cheapest and easiest for you to make and that will work with any aftermarket manifold. Thats what Id like.
 
#50 ·
I.E. said it themselves... With their rail on UM and c2 flange the injectors can't be in the correct pattern because they hit the head. What I'm alleging is that must mean you can't plug them in either. Idk its a big deal to me.
 
#55 ·
Ya I know the oem works, but not for me :( Im leaning toward e85 so a return system is needed plus larger injectors which may make the problem worse. I guess I should build the manifold as "low pro" as I can get it and get a phenolic spacer. Im already gonna be tight on room with the Mishimoto radiator, and I may have to use FAL fans, which are a bitch to rewire
 
#56 ·
The injectors on the aftermarket manifolds are significantly closer to the head flange, and angled "up" at a steeper angle. With the OE manifold, the rail misses the cam sensor plug to the outside- it could go "up" with longer injectors etc, no problem. With the aftermarket manifolds, the rail literally has to be partially underneath that clip. The rail outlet is also about an inch or more closer to the VVT solenoid on the other end- it's very close. The aftermarket manifold(s) put the injectors so close to the head that they can't even all be properly oriented because the injector connectors are literally touching.

Our rail will work with those manifolds with a large chamfer right under that plug and short injectors like the stock ones, 550's, etc. It's just not ideal in general, as the return line is also really damn close to that VVT solenoid. On the stock manifold there is plenty of room, on the aftermarket ones you are hating life. I do not believe the different injector placement / angle on those manifolds is hurting power at all, just to be clear.
 
#59 ·
Sure if you use a flat plate flange, and weld on bungs a little further up the runners. But UM and
C2 have built in cnc'd bungs. A fix would be a phenolic spacer and cut off the dip stick tab on the front of the plenum. Im not sure a phenolic spacer will help my situation because with the eaton in front of the fans, not sure I have the extra room. I may just have to modify the oem rail if Pete decides the chamfer isnt worth it
 
#61 ·
Took a big step towards getting the 2.5L on the engine dyno. From design to fabrication, our one-off IE motor mount bracket is finished.

Started with a big chunk of aluminum:




In the mill:




And ended with a big chunk of aluminum:




That was a test fit, we still need to turn some spacers and finish the hardware to install it before its ready to mount to the dyno. Sure does beat welding random bits of metal together to make mounts.
 
#63 · (Edited)
Bit of a teaser today guys... The guys at the shop pulled together today and stayed late to work on this. We got the 1.8t off the dyno and mostly moth-balled. Then we got the billet mount and stuff on the 2.5- and got it on the engine dyno's cart. Our dyno bellhousing from the 1.8t is an a4 1.8t style- that lined up perfectly to the 2.5L, but the starter took a LOT of massaging (goes "forward" on the 1.8t- hit the block, among other things)... Anyways, we got that done too, had a beer and went home.

I also sorted out the coolant system- our dyno obviously uses a very abbreviated system with no heater etc- no thermostat (it's external). Wasn't too bad- used a couple of our VW coolant adapter bungs to adapt or convert a couple of the holes- a few pipe thread plugs- good to go :)

We're ready to put a flywheel on this thing and couple it up to the dyno, then we will start hooking up the exhaust, cooling, throttle etc as well as wiring. I was going to use the stock throttle body but it is the same exact size as the mooostang one we've been running- so I think we're just going to use that. It's a hell of a lot easier to setup.

This is actually moving along faster then I expected- I planned for a fight with the bellhousing / starter / flywheel. Not that it wasn't. :laugh:

Tyler will update with photos of all of this tomorrow or maybe monday- those guys are bogged down trying to get our new website online.


*Edit with terrible cell phone pics- can't find the damn memory card for the SLR, so I'll have the guys re-do these for you in a few days. *

Here's the engine all mounted up on the stand:



Bellhousing and starter adapted:



Bet you don't want to see your 2.5L wiring looking like this! :eek:



^ We are repinning the factory harness onto the Vi-pec. It was in really good shape and this will save us some time and money.



Harness all sorted and labeled. I have connectors and pins etc coming in next week so the wiring will continue. We also will assault dave's Rabbit with an oscilloscope and measure the VVT solenoid PWM frequencies, crank & cam trigger signal phasing, etc.



This is the ECU we are using- this one does dual VVT, e-throttle, full flex fuel control, egt corrections on whatever you want, traction control, boost by gear, etc- They aren't too bad at under $2500- however if you don't mind loosing the E-throttle there is also the same ECU in a "Link" brand for under $1600. :eek: Doing one of those on a customer's Bonneville salts racer build right now.

Anyways, we'll have more plumbing and wiring related updates next week. Also, don't forget to sign up for our piston and rod give away contest on our facebook. HERE! :thumbup::beer:
 
#65 ·
So, a fair bit of work yields a small update. I spent all day today wiring the OEM harness to the Vipec connectors, as well as wiring up a few relay sockets etc- there is no chassis wiring to power things off of in this case. Anyways, it's all done, and the final look is- well, an OEM harness with a Vipec on the end :)

The EVAP wiring I wired up to an Aux output just in case, and the SAI wiring will eventually be hooked up to a boost control valve.



Now we are waiting for a pilot bearing to show up. With any luck an A4 1.8t one will fit the 2.5L crank- otherwise I will have to make a bushing on the lathe. We also need to get Dave's 2.5L in here and scope out the crank / cam triggers and the VVT, for configuring the Vipec. :thumbup:
 
#66 ·
One more update today- we are closed but I couldn't stay away from the shop haha. :laugh:




Thanks to the guys for staying late on Wednesday to get this bolted up to the dyno and leveled, etc.



Today I hooked up the coolant lines, installed the wiring harness and spent some time evaluating what we need to do next. There is no freakin place to get good MAP signals off this thing, so we'll have to solve that.



Billet fuel rail and wiring all situated- just need an adapter for the back of the rail to hook up the return to the regulator and we'll be all plumbed up here. Piece of cake.

Happy Holidays guys ! :beer::thumbup:
 
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