02m random lack of clutch pressure

[mpatterson]

i looked around at other threads with loss of clutch pressure, but i'm not really loosing pressure completely. i have a 02m and just installed a south bend single mass 9lb fw, and kevlar disc. replaced the slave cylinder at the same time. 90% of the time i'm driving i can change gears just fine, and while driving changing into any gear is fine, but once i stop moving, then the probleme occurs........sometimes.

most of the time i can go into reverse and forward fine, but sometimes i need to do a second pump on the clutch to allow me to get into gear, sometimes i can sit idle in 1st then suddenly the clutch will grab and pull me forward. sometimes once it grabs i can forcefully pull it out of gear, then it will just slip back into gear with no probleme, sometimes it won't, but if i engage then disengage second gear then 1st gear works fine, sometimes i can hold the clutch down for a long time and it feels totally normal when engaging, sometimes i'll lift my foot a fraction of an inch and it'll just grab.

like i said i replaced the slave when i did the clutch, however it did work fine before i did this, i have replaced the master, and checked for leaks on all the lines, and found nothing, please help.

[mpatterson]

anyone have any suggestions, i know it's not that things were installed right cause most of the time it works, it would really suck if i got a bad slave with the clutch, but it seems to be either that or some mystery issue with the fluid lines, but if anyone has any other thoughts it would be great.

no change apparent with temperature, or if car is cold or running for an hour, sometimes looses some pressure instantly, other times i can hold the pedal down for 10 minutes or more, with it holding strong, it's driving me crazy

also other than water, and a small amout of engine oil that is from my valve cover leaking, there is no oil apparent in the bell housing, i wiped out the bottom through the window in the bottom then sat in the car for almost an hour pumping the clutch sometimes holding it down sometimes just pumping away, fast and slow, and no oil was in there.

[Blk95VR6]

Try bleeding your clutch via the bleeder valve that connects the transmission to the master cylinder (it takes a 9mm socket, by the way); have someone pump your clutch a couple of times, hold it to the floor, and you open the bleeder valve; be careful when you open it, as air and brake fluid will come out, and it'll do so under great enough pressure to spray into your eyes, and that does not feel good, trust me. See if that'll help you out; it happened to my O2M and when I bled it, I bled some air out of it that was causing the same "grabbing" you speak of. Mine feels good now, normal even, and it's daily driven.


Mike

[SPEC-01]

You can also use a vacuum bleeder, like a mighty-vac to help eliminate air from the system. You will need to connect to and bleed from the valve on the line that feeds the slave (located just before the line entered the bell-housing) as well as to the reservoir mounted on the fire-wall. Bleeding these systems can be a bit frustration so just be patient.

[Blk95VR6]

You can also use a vacuum bleeder, like a mighty-vac to help eliminate air from the system. You will need to connect to and bleed from the valve on the line that feeds the slave (located just before the line entered the bell-housing) as well as to the reservoir mounted on the fire-wall. Bleeding these systems can be a bit frustration so just be patient.

to this suggestion as well...


Mike

[mpatterson]

have bled the line multiple ways at least a dozen times now, it appears that there is a pressure regulator in the clutch line, and from what i've gathered this seems to be the issue, at least that's what the guys at ecstuning have told me. now if that is true, which is the only thing that makes sense seeing as the slave and master are new, and how it is reacting, anyone know if i need that regulator in there, or if i can just get one unregulated line

[SPEC-01]

Many manufactures have gone to regulators on the lines to reduce the back-flow of hydraulic fluid as the pedal is released. It is effectively a proportioning valve used to dampen engagement. You will be fine without it if a line with it deleted is available.

[slawny091]

situation sounds similar to mine. I installed a SB stage 1 clutch last winter. New slave, flywheel, etc...a few months ago my power steering took a **** on me and once i replaced it i began having similar issues with my clutch. Replaced the master cylinder, did nothing. Bled it multiple times, nothing. Just replaced the slave cylinder and bled the system, working well so far. As much as I hate to say it, might be your slave cylinder. Doesn't mater how new or old it is, they can still fail. good luck

[SPEC-01]

I had a stock slave fail with 1000 miles on my 06 GTI. Wonders never cease I suppose. If you pull the parts make sure you check the disc for evidence of contamination. If the disc has any hydraulic fluid on the surface it will cause the disc to slip and you will be doing this job again! Let me know if you need anything else.

[slawny091]

they can fail internally too, so you may not see fluid leak. that's what happened to mine, so dont be fooled and if you pull the trans, especially a 02m, replace the slave regardless, you'll thank yourself.

[mpatterson]

argh, i so hope it's not the slave, that would really suck if i got a lemon. that's a ton of work for such a cheap part. i'll cross my fingers that it's something wrong with the line, as much as i do agree that it seems most likely it's the slave. thanks everyone, i'll let you know how it goes

[mpatterson]

the only thing i don't understand is i would think that i'd have fluid leaking out of the bell housing by now, that's what is really throwing me off, and my reservoir isn't loosing any fluid. can the slave leak internally without loosing any fluid?????

[SPEC-01]

If the leak is internal you will not see any real fluid loss. I went for about 4 weeks with a slave that was bypassing fluid internally before it actually popped the seal.

[slawny091]

the only thing i don't understand is i would think that i'd have fluid leaking out of the bell housing by now, that's what is really throwing me off, and my reservoir isn't loosing any fluid. can the slave leak internally without loosing any fluid?????

my slave acted up for weeks, never leaked, never loss any fluid in the reservoir either.

[TedG]

If the leak is internal you will not see any real fluid loss. I went for about 4 weeks with a slave that was bypassing fluid internally before it actually popped the seal.

I second that, just like a brake master cylinder the cup may be defective and instead of pushing fluid it's passing through it.

[mpatterson]

that blows, but thanks for the insight guys

[zerosimple]

Any luck yet on this problem, I am having the exact same problem with my gli.

[slawny091]

Any luck yet on this problem, I am having the exact same problem with my gli.

situation sounds similar to mine. I installed a SB stage 1 clutch last winter. New slave, flywheel, etc...a few months ago my power steering took a **** on me and once i replaced it i began having similar issues with my clutch. Replaced the master cylinder, did nothing. Bled it multiple times, nothing. Just replaced the slave cylinder and bled the system, working well so far. As much as I hate to say it, might be your slave cylinder. Doesn't mater how new or old it is, they can still fail. good luck

also posted in your thread

[mpatterson]

i replaced the line, it certainly seems to have come down to the slave unfortunately, can't stand to think it, but that's all that's left, will let you know when i get it switched out

[RobbieRolex]

Also having this problem, stage 2 SB clutch, only thing mine does different from what you guys have described is that sometimes i can feel a clitching or a notch in the clutch pedal.

Lets how you get to the bottom of this, i know how frustrating it is.

[mpatterson]

so i finally got around to replacing the slave, got the tranny off, didn't seem to be any oil at all coming from the slave inside. So at that point i was pretty frustrated, being left with putting the new slave in and just hoping i didn't spend a good chunk of my day on nothing never mind buying a new slave. Anyways i got it all back together, drove it for about 20 minutes, so far so good, will update if i start having issues again.

[RobbieRolex]

Glad you got it sorted, fingers crossed.TBH I was hoping it wasn't the slave cylinder, this is a pain in the a$$ job to do.

[slawny091]

Also having this problem, stage 2 SB clutch, only thing mine does different from what you guys have described is that sometimes i can feel a clitching or a notch in the clutch pedal.

Lets how you get to the bottom of this, i know how frustrating it is.

mine clutch felt similar when it was acting up, replace that slave

[RobbieRolex]

mine clutch felt similar when it was acting up, replace that slave

Looks like I'll be replacing the slave cylinder, what a complete cnunt of a job, cheers for the insight though.

[slawny091]

Looks like I'll be replacing the slave cylinder, what a complete cnunt of a job, cheers for the insight though.

yeah, sometimes i wish i had a five speed so i wouldn't have to pull the whole trans, but, then again i don't

no problem, hope it solves your issues

[mpatterson]

ok so to update, almost all the time the clutch is working fine, thre is still the odd time that it acts up though, so still some stuff to figure out, but the slave definitely helped, i feel like because they changed the pivit point on the pressure plate that the clutch isn't disengaging as much as it did with the stock pressure plate pivit point. not sure if anyone knows a way to get more movement on the slave?????? when i had the tranny off i checked everything on the clutch, everything was tight.

[RobbieRolex]

ok so to update, almost all the time the clutch is working fine, thre is still the odd time that it acts up though, so still some stuff to figure out, but the slave definitely helped, i feel like because they changed the pivit point on the pressure plate that the clutch isn't disengaging as much as it did with the stock pressure plate pivit point. not sure if anyone knows a way to get more movement on the slave?????? when i had the tranny off i checked everything on the clutch, everything was tight.

Any joy with this?

I have noticed something else on mine, not sure if you had the same but when i am driving and i rest my foot on the clutch pedal lighty( their is a bit of slack there) and then press the throttle i can feel the clutch pedal pushing back up, not sure if that helps troubleshooting, clutches are not my area of knowledge.

[mpatterson]

something sounds pretty wrong there, pressing the throttle shouldn't make any difference at all to the clutch pedal, i can't picture what it could be but if you are getting any feedback there's something wrong with your clutch, doesn't sound lilke a pedal or cylinder issue to me. maybe even a tranny issue.

[SPEC-01]

Though I cannot answer for every manufacture, our kits release within the OE travel range of the slave. In most instances a single-disc, push-type clutch, should have full release within 3/8" of diaphragm compression. The slave is capable of considerably greater travel.

That being said, I would check the stack-height of the parts. This is measured with the clutch assembly bolted to the flywheel and is the distance from the crank-mounting surface on the back of the flywheel to the diaphragm finger peak. This should be approx. ~2.550" for the 02M 6-speed. I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks!

[RobbieRolex]

I starting to think i have air getting into the line somewhere, i bleed the clutch line and it was ok for 2 days the its started to give problems, like the bit point changing etc...

i found this thread, it may help other
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4376420

[mpatterson]

i'll try that and see, i mean i've replaced everything already so why not try something free. it does seem to be getting enough movement when it does work no probleme. i tried pressing the pedal all the way down then releasing it like 20 percent and it still will change gears no probleme, so i am ruling out any issues with the setup of the clutch assembly, it's definitely something between the master and slave that is doing it. just something is still letting it engage itself randomly even at full pedal. i hate ghost issues.

[RobbieRolex]

Did you ever get this sorted?

[CarSwapper]

any updates on the issue. Im having almost exact problem just it happens more often then yours. I even started to loose pressure on brake pedal. Also when my bleeder valve is tightened i slowly loose vaccum on my vaccum pump. I suspect the plastic bleeder assembly is bad and i really hope its not my slave.....less then 140 miles on it

Clutchmaster FX725 twin disc

[RobbieRolex]

Just an update on this, after replacing Master cyclinder twice, new braided clutch lines and bleeder assemply it turns out the slave cyclinder is screwed, i replaced it and all is good, its just a pity when ever you have issues with the 02M you have to troubleshoot from the MC down, basically replacing everything to try and avoid dropping the trans, even though in the back of you mind you kinda know this is the issue.

[Scrubbs]

Im still trying to figure out how fluid can pass the piston on the slave and not end up in the open air. Most of the time , i have found that there is air in the top section of the slave, be it from some angle on the car or motor. I have found getting that air out the hardest part, and when the slave gets removed / replaced the air gets its chance to escape and its chalked up to a bad slave.
Master cyls on the other hand can bypass fluid, allowing the spring in the slave/and clutch to bleed off pressure while the pedal is down. I havent tore a o2m slave aprt in awhile, but i recall its similiar to a caliper regarding the seal. Please correct me if im wrong.