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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

    1. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 03:07 PM #1
      In an effort to find more info about this car and make it easier to decide and select what will work best for your car, this will be the first thread I'm making dedicated to all the specs, data and details for suspension related products. I will update this OP as more info is found and most importantly, I would like to at least get the info down for the stock OEM components including stuff like:

      Spring rates
      Sway bar thickness and rates
      Any other suspension related data
      Dyno graphs showing damper and spring characteristics at different settings

      Here is an interesting point that I will leave here:
      **
      VWR does not recommend sport springs on 4-Motion vehicles such as the Golf R and R32 as lowering the ride height from the factory does not offer a significant improvement and can even harm the ride and handling balance of these vehicles. For these vehicles the VWR Streetsport and Streetsport+ Coilover Systems are highly recommended.
      Source
      ...A statement that many people who care about the handling of their cars have pointed out and agreed on before so it is interesting to now hear the same thing directly from VWR.

      Stock OEM
      Spring Type/Rates: 180F/250R according to measurements by yellow bunny
      Or 275F/225R based on rough estimates courtesy of ryeboy
      Additional: Dampers Made by Sachs
      Sway Bars:
      Front 22mm Solid, Rear 21.7mm, 3mm wall thickness
      Source

      Note: You can replace OEM control arms and spindles (front only) with TT or Passat parts, which are aluminum and will save you unsprung weight. Passat parts are direct replacement with no change besides the weight reduction, TT parts add camber adjustability but they also widen your track by about 10mm per side (? please confirm about extra track width):More info here
      SuperPro Control Arms are also available. See info below and here
      R32 OEM LCA's are 10.25 lbs/ea and Passat are 6.4 lbs/ea
      R32 Spindles are 9.8 lbs/ea and Passat are 6.4 lbs/ea
      (weights according to ryeboy's calculations linked to above)

      AST 4100
      Spring Type/Rates:
      2 Front 60mm Coilover Springs, 7" Long
      2 Rear Swift 60mm Coilover Springs, 9" Long
      The GTS package is 350 lbs/in front, 250 lbs/in rear
      We can provide any available spring rates upon request...

      for the R32 I'd suggest ordering with stiffer rates. They go for $2,099.00

      Additional: Monotube design, http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=120_203&products_id=260


      AST (other series)
      Spring Type/Rates: N/A
      Additional: Monotube design

      Bilstein PSS10
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Front: E4-FD1-Y704A00 = progressive; initial rate 32.8N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 43.4N/mm (approx 250lbs/in)
      Rear: E4-FD1-Y754A00 = progressive; initial rate 33.0N/mm (approx 190lbs/in), secondary rate 50.1N/mm (approx 285lbs/in)
      Additional:
      Adjustable compression & rebound dampening
      Note about changing spring rates: Simply replacing the progressive rate springs with linear rates will significantly alter the ride characteristics, firmer without over powering the dampers (perhaps 300lbs/in front and 350lbs/in rear). 350#/in front springs (linear) and 400lbs/in rear (linear) would be the maximum I would recommend.
      *I originally forgot to add this but thanks to JRutter for the info on the Bilsteins. I hope you don't mind me sharing this info with everyone.
      Dyno Graph

      B&G
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Linear Springs...rates?
      Additional:
      18-way adjustable dampening (rebound and compression)
      Anodized aluminum alloy and powder coated steel
      They also come with a limited lifetime warranty.
      Height adjustable
      Front 1.25-3.5" (32 - 89mm)
      Rear 1.25-3.5" (32 - 89mm)

      Ground Control
      Camber Plates
      Additional: Allow camber and caster adjustment, as well as access to adjustable struts. There is No change in ride height, and NO LOSS OF SUSPENSION TRAVEL. An oversize American central bearing to reduce flex, yet using a waterproof German steering bearing which is rebuildable (unlike the stock parts) for smooth steering. .Designed for track use, and utilizing quality Aurora spherical bearings, the Ground Control camber/caster plates are machined only for use with coil-over springs. More info here: http://performanceshock.com/--c-41_139/ccpmkv

      HPA SHS
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Front: Linear/NA
      Rear: Progressive/NA
      Additional:
      Height adjustable
      Front: 25-55mm
      Rear: 35-60mm

      ISC N1
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Front: Sport/Street: 560 lbs, Track: 672 lbs
      Rear: Sport/Street: 336 lbs, Track: 448 lbs
      Additional:
      Height, Pre-load and Dampening adjustable
      Sport Springs or Track Springs (dampening builds are different from each other)

      Koni 2100 FSD 4020 kit
      Spring Type/Rates: Dampers only. Made to use with stock springs/height, can also be revalved to match any spring rate like any other dampers, but...
      Additional: Dual Flow Valve (similar to Ohlin design). Should be able to use with slightly different from stock height and spring rates. More info.

      KSport Kontrol Pro Damper System
      Spring Type/Rates: Seem to be Linear
      Front: 504 lbs (optional 672, 896)
      Rear: 252 lbs (optional 336, 448, 1008)
      Additional: Height/Compression/Rebound adjustable, Monotube construction, Camber Plates built in front mounts.

      KW V1
      Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
      Additional:
      Height adjustable
      Front: 0.8"-1.8"
      Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
      ST Coilovers have the same specs, just different finish (inox-line on KW for "100% rust free" or just Galvanized for ST)

      KW V2
      Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
      Additional:
      Height adjustable
      Front: 0.8"-1.8"
      Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
      Adjustable rebound dampening

      KW V3
      Spring Type/Rates: Progressive/NA
      Additional:
      Height adjustable
      Front: 0.8"-1.8"
      Rear: 0.4"-1.4"
      Adjustable compression & rebound dampening

      KW Clubsport
      Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
      Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
      Height adjustable
      Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
      Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
      2-Way adjustable

      Moton
      Spring Type/Rates: NA
      Additional: These should be comparable to Ohlins and most likely custom setup.

      Neuspeed Spring Kit
      Spring Type/Rates: Progressive Springs / 300lb Front / 330lb Rear
      Additional:
      Lowers approx. 1.4 (F) & 1.4 (R) (I'm assuming inchs)

      Neuspeed Rear Anti-Sway Bar - 25mm
      Additional:
      2 Hole adjustable (would love to know at least how much it increases stiffness at different settings)

      Neuspeed Front Anti-Sway Bar - 25mm
      Again, would like to know how much stiffer it is compared to stock

      Ohlin VWS MI00 (OEM replacement dampers)
      Spring Type/Rates: Made to use with stock springs, can also be revalved to match any spring rate like any other dampers, but...
      Front: 450 lbs is recommended by Ohlin and other suspension specialists
      Rear: 350 lbs is recommended by Ohlin and other suspension specialists
      (See discussion relating to spring rates later in this thread, starting here)
      Additional: Dual Flow Valve, Monotube design
      Dyno Graph and links to more info/discussion HERE.

      Ohlin VWSMI10 Coilovers
      Spring Type/Rates: Linear
      Front: 70 N/mm or ~400 lbs
      Rear: 60 N/mm or ~350 lbs
      Additional: Dual Flow Valve, Monotube design
      These ARE NOT AWD tested yet but are made by Ohlin from what seems to be the same Dampers above (Ohlin VWS MI00) and I would imagine they will work fine (don't trust me).
      Details Here.

      Ohlin/PSI Coilover Kit
      Spring Type/Rates: Linear/TBA (PSI usually works with their customers to determine the right spring rate for each individual's needs)
      Additional: External Canister Dampers up Front, TTX Inline Dampers for Rear. Camber plate included for mounting strut and canisters.
      Announcement and info starts Here.
      This should be the ultimate suspension currently available off the shelf for our cars but I'll wait for more details...

      Sachs Performance Coilover Kit
      Spring Type/Rates: NA
      Additional:
      Housing diameter: 50 mm
      Chass. lowered from: 30mm to: 50mm
      More: http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...nvmfcjo90aqt77

      SuperPro performance Control Arms
      Highlights:
      7.5 lbs/ea (compared to 10.25 lbs/ea for OEM R32 LCAs)
      Corrosion resistant Supaloy
      Smart Bushing and Mount Design
      Special low friction stainless steel insert
      Bushing bonded direct to high-stress alloy bracket
      Smart Bushing and Mount Design
      Special low friction stainless steel insert
      Bushing bonded direct to high-stress alloy bracket
      Performance Grip Dynamics
      Up to 1.5 Deg extra dynamic positive caster
      Supertrac Anti-lift geometry for more traction

      Tein Spring Kit SKV90-AUB00
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Progressive
      Front: 207 lbs/in
      Rear: 286 lbs/in
      Additional:
      Lowers 1" (some specs say 1.5"?)
      http://www.tein.com/products/s_tech_price_list.html
      Tein seems to have a coilover kit with 450lbs/in front & rear springs.

      VW Racing Springs
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Linear
      Front: 35 N/mm or ~200 lbs/in
      Rear: 45 N/mm or ~257 lbs/in
      Additional:
      Front Lowering - 10-15mm or .4" - .6"
      Rear Lowering - 8-13mm or .3" - .5"
      **The comment above about VWR not recommending lowering springs for the R32 seems to have been negated due to this new spring design.


      VW Racing
      Spring Type/Rates: Progressive or Linear options available no rates currently available
      Front: ?
      Rear: ?
      Additional: Fixed or adjustable damper options available. Camber plates available but they only work with VWR coilover components.
      More info here: http://www.volkswagenracing.co.uk/vwcore/suspension/
      Sway Bars:
      Front: 26mm solid, Rear: 23mm solid (these seem to be for FWD applications at the moment but AWD supposed to be coming soon)


      Air Suspension
      For those interested, check this post


      There are several other brands and products I have not listed so please add on and provide as much info as possible to make this thread as useful as it can be. We need threads like this for other stuff like exhaust too...

      Here are some good suspension shops that can help with questions and customizations for many of the setups:
      http://performanceshock.com/
      http://www.vorshlag.com/
      Last edited by Slave IV; 08-05-2014 at 06:23 PM.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    2. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      11-30-2011 04:01 PM #2
      Here's some info on my KW Clubsports.

      Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
      Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
      Height adjustable
      Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
      Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
      2-Way adjustable





      Last edited by Ryan E.; 10-24-2012 at 08:49 AM.
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

    3. Member Uncle Wiggley's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 04:46 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryan E. View Post
      Here's some info on my KW Clubsports.

      Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
      Additional: Come with Front Camber Plates
      Height adjustable
      Front: 0.8"-1.8" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
      Rear: 0.4"-1.4" TUV Approved Ride Height (can go a lot lower)
      2-Way adjustable
      See this just pisses me off, I should have just gone with the clubsports. The V1-3 apparently are progressive rate 510 to 340 with v2-3 a dampening nipple to twist.

      KW V1 is nice for the daily and cleans up that flaccid feeling the oem displays. But track is a no go.
      Last edited by Uncle Wiggley; 11-30-2011 at 04:49 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by abeR View Post
      Not my math doc! Put the spliff down

    4. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 05:28 PM #4
      Thanks Ryan! It's interesting they chose to go with stiffer springs on the front. Generally you get stiffer rear springs in performance oriented setups to get rid of the understeer inherent in the way most (if not all) stock suspensions are tuned. It's possible they figure people will use the kit with a RSB because the rates still seem a bit low for a track setup.

      Care to share how the handling feels compared to stock or any other setup you've tried? Please include details on other parts you may have changed that would influence the outcome.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    5. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      11-30-2011 06:04 PM #5
      I held off from modding the car because I knew I wanted that to be my first and one of my best mods, so I waited out and got a deal on Nebby's suspension that was barely used.

      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wiggley View Post
      See this just pisses me off, I should have just gone with the clubsports. The V1-3 apparently are progressive rate 510 to 340 with v2-3 a dampening nipple to twist.

      KW V1 is nice for the daily and cleans up that flaccid feeling the oem displays. But track is a no go.
      Well, since the VR6 engine is so heavy, that's why the big difference in rates from front to rear. KW designs their kits and tests on their 7-post dyno which no other suspension manufacture (aftermarket) has, only car manufactures and F1 Teams use this. There's a nice short article Super Street put out, check it out.

      KW designed the kit without any aftermarkets bars, so I don't intend to ever change the front/rear bar, why mess with what they tuned. I feel all I needed to do was stiffen up the car all around without changing too much. So, I have some of the best shocks, good solid linear springs, camber adjustability, and if they need to be rebuilt that can easily be done.

      As far as understeer issues, they're kept to a minimum if you drive the correct line. TechEd and others have mentioned that the R32 is a late apex car. So, at the track running a late apex will result the best time in most instances and keep you from running off the track, haha.

      I've thought about solid bushings, but haven't pulled the trigger on them. They do wear out faster.

      Also, if H2sport ever comes out with their front carriers, I would probably buy those. I hear they can hold 1G through a turn and really make the front of the car hook.

      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Thanks Ryan! It's interesting they chose to go with stiffer springs on the front. Generally you get stiffer rear springs in performance oriented setups to get rid of the understeer inherent in the way most (if not all) stock suspensions are tuned. It's possible they figure people will use the kit with a RSB because the rates still seem a bit low for a track setup.

      Care to share how the handling feels compared to stock or any other setup you've tried? Please include details on other parts you may have changed that would influence the outcome.
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

    6. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 06:32 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryan E. View Post
      Well, since the VR6 engine is so heavy, that's why the big difference in rates from front to rear. KW designs their kits and tests on their 7-post dyno which no other suspension manufacture (aftermarket) has, only car manufactures and F1 Teams use this. There's a nice short article Super Street put out, check it out.

      KW designed the kit without any aftermarkets bars, so I don't intend to ever change the front/rear bar, why mess with what they tuned. I feel all I needed to do was stiffen up the car all around without changing too much. So, I have some of the best shocks, good solid linear springs, camber adjustability, and if they need to be rebuilt that can easily be done.

      As far as understeer issues, they're kept to a minimum if you drive the correct line. TechEd and others have mentioned that the R32 is a late apex car. So, at the track running a late apex will result the best time in most instances and keep you from running off the track, haha.

      I've thought about solid bushings, but haven't pulled the trigger on them. They do wear out faster.

      Also, if H2sport ever comes out with their front carriers, I would probably buy those. I hear they can hold 1G through a turn and really make the front of the car hook.
      Very true and most AWD cars do have later apexes. The main thing is most cars are tuned to have a bit of understeer from the factory and if you look at track prepped suspensions, they usually have stiffer rear for more neutral or oversteer if anything. After driving the car more, I do agree that understeer can be eliminated depending on how you drive. I have a feeling KW tries to improve performance while still keeping some of the "saftey" of the stock handling characteristics and that's why they decided on those rates. I'm assuming this based on their rates for other cars where I know they also use stiffer front springs while I know for a fact that track setups proven by winning race teams use stiffer rear for the same car.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    7. Member Golf_kris's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 07:00 PM #7
      I don't have any experience with coils. So if I'm the spirited daily driving type, with a few summer auto-X days, and maybe a couple trips a year to a real track what should I look into? I threw an Eiback pro-kit and Neuspeed rear sway on my last MkIV. I loved it for daily driving and I got props from a Porsche driving instructor at auto-X for how neutral it was. Looking to repeat that with the R. The V Maxx kit advertised on this forum looked interesting. Oh, I'm on a reservist/student budget too so $3k KW clubsports are out of the question.

    8. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 07:21 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Golf_kris View Post
      I don't have any experience with coils. So if I'm the spirited daily driving type, with a few summer auto-X days, and maybe a couple trips a year to a real track what should I look into? I threw an Eiback pro-kit and Neuspeed rear sway on my last MkIV. I loved it for daily driving and I got props from a Porsche driving instructor at auto-X for how neutral it was. Looking to repeat that with the R. The V Maxx kit advertised on this forum looked interesting. Oh, I'm on a reservist/student budget too so $3k KW clubsports are out of the question.
      If you are on a budget and want to get the most out of your car, I'd spend your money on more driver's training. I know the Eibach Pro kits are usually a very nice balance of price/comfort/performance but I really don't think you need them on this car. Personally, I would do the Haldex controller before either coilovers or sway bars. I just made a long post recently about how stiffer sway bars take away the independent characteristics of your suspension the stiffer you get (wheel lift) and there is a separate thread all about it but it is a cheap and quick way to make the handling feel more neutral...even on stock suspension. I still think the best way is to get stiffer springs and dampers that match to control your handling however you like it. If we can get more data compiled in this thread about different rates and people's experiences, I think one of the best things to do is build your own custom suspension to do exactly what you want. Get a set of Koni dampers and springs from Swift and have the dampers revalved to match whatever spring rate you go with and you will probably have a better setup than most of the off the shelf coilover kits for less money.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    9. Member Uncle Wiggley's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 07:40 PM #9
      KW was my top pick on suspension and first modification, after 3 track events I realized the oem was stealing the joy of the track. I am working on changing the springs out now, that way if and when I run again the rear won't Peter out. I have video of my best run at TG.
      Quote Originally Posted by abeR View Post
      Not my math doc! Put the spliff down

    10. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 07:43 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wiggley View Post
      KW was my top pick on suspension and first modification, after 3 track events I realized the oem was stealing the joy of the track. I am working on changing the springs out now, that way if and when I run again the rear won't Peter out. I have video of my best run at TG.
      Cool, what are your plan for the springs? Just replacing worn ones with the same or changing it up?
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    11. Member Uncle Wiggley's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 08:22 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Cool, what are your plan for the springs? Just replacing worn ones with the same or changing it up?
      I am getting the springs that came with the V1 tested for exact spring rates or at least find what there varying weights are. Then see if vogtland or Eibach can do something for me. Also going to talk to KW...again to see what they can do. The suspension is good for the daily drive and spirited driving, but open it up and let all he'll loose on the track,NO.
      Quote Originally Posted by abeR View Post
      Not my math doc! Put the spliff down

    12. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 08:42 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wiggley View Post
      I am getting the springs that came with the V1 tested for exact spring rates or at least find what there varying weights are. Then see if vogtland or Eibach can do something for me. Also going to talk to KW...again to see what they can do. The suspension is good for the daily drive and spirited driving, but open it up and let all he'll loose on the track,NO.
      Yeah, none of the spring rates I've seen for this car seem ideal for tracking to me. Eibach should be good but I would avoid Vogtland springs. Swift makes some very good springs that a lot of people use to replace springs that come with coilovers they just bought so I would suggest looking into them if you haven't yet. Most dampers can work with springs within 200lbs of whatever they were designed for so any more and you should probably have them revalved.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    13. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      11-30-2011 10:01 PM #13
      OEM isn't bad at all, maybe just some better shock absorbers wouldn't be a bad idea. I ran a bunch of track days all OEM.

      Quote Originally Posted by Golf_kris View Post
      I don't have any experience with coils. So if I'm the spirited daily driving type, with a few summer auto-X days, and maybe a couple trips a year to a real track what should I look into? I threw an Eiback pro-kit and Neuspeed rear sway on my last MkIV. I loved it for daily driving and I got props from a Porsche driving instructor at auto-X for how neutral it was. Looking to repeat that with the R. The V Maxx kit advertised on this forum looked interesting. Oh, I'm on a reservist/student budget too so $3k KW clubsports are out of the question.
      The V1 springs are progressive, right? If so, you could get some linear springs from KW that will match the shock valving you currently have.

      Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Wiggley View Post
      I am getting the springs that came with the V1 tested for exact spring rates or at least find what there varying weights are. Then see if vogtland or Eibach can do something for me. Also going to talk to KW...again to see what they can do. The suspension is good for the daily drive and spirited driving, but open it up and let all he'll loose on the track,NO.
      OP: please add an entry for AST, they make a nice R suspension that's under $2000...
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

    14. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 10:06 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryan E. View Post
      OEM isn't bad at all, maybe just some better shock absorbers wouldn't be a bad idea. I ran a bunch of track days all OEM.



      The V1 springs are progressive, right? If so, you could get some linear springs from KW that will match the shock valving you currently have.



      OP: please add an entry for AST, they make a nice R suspension that's under $2000...
      Yeah, I think people really need to learn to drive the car on stock suspension before they even think about changing anything..especially if they never drove an AWD car before. There is definite room for improvement but I doubt most people can push the stock setup to its limits consistently.

      I added AST but with no data
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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    15. Member JRutter's Avatar
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      11-30-2011 11:20 PM #15
      Anyone have info or links on how to properly spec spring length for a given rate given the weight of the car, travel, etc?
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    16. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-01-2011 12:46 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by TeamZleep View Post
      Edit- I plan on doing a LOT of track seat-time on the OEM suspension... Put it to work, then upgrade when I have SOLID information on these coilover setups and choose a suspension that will work to my driving style.

      I'm just glad there's more than a few of us out there that won't settle for hearsay and opinions when it comes to aftermarket coilovers... We want the nitty gtitty facts and details, and won't settle for anything less.
      Exactly...Luckily, I'm sure we are not the first and the basic rules of physics apply so we can take data from other similar cars to make a decent guess at what will work. Here is what I posted yesterday before I made this thread:
      I would go anywhere from 600F, 700R to around 1000lbs for spring rates depending on how aggressive/track you want it....My guess is that the stock spring rates are around 200-300lbs tops and most aftermarket setups people are buying for this car are no more than 400-500lbs...just do the math with how much the car weighs and it's no wonder the car feels like mush without some help.

      Seems like I was very close on my guesses based on what we know so far.

      Quote Originally Posted by JRutter View Post
      Anyone have info or links on how to properly spec spring length for a given rate given the weight of the car, travel, etc?
      Not sure but I know the guys at Swift could probably help you with that. There is a lot of good info on their site and they may even have your answer there already. http://www.swiftsprings.net/faq.html
      I would hope that any competent suspension shop should be able to help too. Things like spring type, material and other things are probably factors.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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    17. Member mfbmike's Avatar
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      12-01-2011 06:57 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Yeah, I think people really need to learn to drive the car on stock suspension before they even think about changing anything..especially if they never drove an AWD car before. There is definite room for improvement but I doubt most people can push the stock setup to its limits consistently.

      I added AST but with no data
      What does that even mean? Learn to drive the car on stock suspension? How do you push a stock suspension to it's limits? To the point you're losing control? Can you push the stock setup to its limits consistently?

      If all goes according to plan, I should take a ride in an R32 with an AST suspension done along with a full whiteline kit (amongst other things, i.e. schrick 268's) tomorrow.

      Who's got two thumbs and is excited? This guy.

      As far as I'm concerned though, I was able to come up on a great deal on my H&R coils that were mildly used for only 500$. Aesthetically, the car looks better (arguable of course). Performancewise, body roll has been been reduced drastically and the car feels tons more planted. I feel more connected to the asphalt - heaps more than I did with the OEM suspension and I'm incredibly pleased with the result of a 500 dollar investment.

      Are they the absolutely best on the market? Highly unlikely but as with most mods we do to our cars, our reactions or feedback to said mods are mostly subjective, regardless of what the numbers say.

      As far as hearsay, opinions or "following the masses" as I've heard before, do reviews and testimonials of others play absolutely no part in the purchase making process? What's the point of browsing forums like this one or other sites that allow for post-purchase reviews?

      Again, regardless of the number crunching - many purchases (car-related or not) we make are highly influenced by the personal reviews of others considering we can't exactly "test drive" specific sets of coilovers considering in most cases, their in a warehouse somewhere across the country or world.

      But I digress - it's nice to have actual numbers tallied up somewhere. But at the end of the day, regardless of what the numbers say or do to prove that aftermarket suspension A is better than aftermarket suspension B, all that matters is if you, as the consumer is happy with them or not.

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    18. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-01-2011 07:35 PM #18
      I agree with most of what you said and the point of this thread is to have some data as well as actual sharing experiences so people can make the best decision for what they want. Didn't you see me ask people how their suspension felt to them? In the end, whatever anyone says can mean something or nothing at all but data doesn't lie.

      And what does it mean to learn to drive the car on stock suspension? It means exactly that. If you cannot push the car to its limits consistently...Here is one example of what that means in data terms: Be able to go around a known track or anything measurable at a comparable time as what was recorded that the car should be able to do. Obviously, we all aren't the best drivers in the world so you may never match that number but if you can't even get close consistently then you are obviously doing something wrong in your driving technique and you should learn how to fix that. The main reason I say that is because there are so many people who can't drive worth a damn and they think that buying things will make them a better driver. These people are very dangerous because those products they buy just push the capability of the car even further than stock when they couldn't even properly control the stock car and at those levels, once they go past the capability of the car, it will be much harder to recover, resulting in crashes that could hurt them and others. I totally understand the logic that suspension improves your car and "what's wrong with that, even if I can't use it but just want it?", but that is just not how I or many other people like to do things. Hopefully this thread will help people who want to know more about the things they buy and for those who don't, this thread surely doesn't hurt does it?

      Quote Originally Posted by mfbmike View Post
      What does that even mean? Learn to drive the car on stock suspension? How do you push a stock suspension to it's limits? To the point you're losing control? Can you push the stock setup to its limits consistently?

      If all goes according to plan, I should take a ride in an R32 with an AST suspension done along with a full whiteline kit (amongst other things, i.e. schrick 268's) tomorrow.

      Who's got two thumbs and is excited? This guy.

      As far as I'm concerned though, I was able to come up on a great deal on my H&R coils that were mildly used for only 500$. Aesthetically, the car looks better (arguable of course). Performancewise, body roll has been been reduced drastically and the car feels tons more planted. I feel more connected to the asphalt - heaps more than I did with the OEM suspension and I'm incredibly pleased with the result of a 500 dollar investment.

      Are they the absolutely best on the market? Highly unlikely but as with most mods we do to our cars, our reactions or feedback to said mods are mostly subjective, regardless of what the numbers say.

      As far as hearsay, opinions or "following the masses" as I've heard before, do reviews and testimonials of others play absolutely no part in the purchase making process? What's the point of browsing forums like this one or other sites that allow for post-purchase reviews?

      Again, regardless of the number crunching - many purchases (car-related or not) we make are highly influenced by the personal reviews of others considering we can't exactly "test drive" specific sets of coilovers considering in most cases, their in a warehouse somewhere across the country or world.

      But I digress - it's nice to have actual numbers tallied up somewhere. But at the end of the day, regardless of what the numbers say or do to prove that aftermarket suspension A is better than aftermarket suspension B, all that matters is if you, as the consumer is happy with them or not.

      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    19. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-01-2011 09:14 PM #19
      I tried to look into the AST setup and couldn't find much other than they are affiliated with Performance Shock Inc., which is a company I have recommended people talk to about custom suspension setups on several occasions. If anyone talks to them or gets anymore info, please post here..
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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    20. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      12-01-2011 11:13 PM #20
      good info guys, let's keep it moving forward with more specs and info. Here's the info on AST 4100's"





      AST 4100

      • 2 Front 60mm Coilover Springs, 7" Long
      • 2 Rear Swift 60mm Coilover Springs, 9" Long
      • The GTS package is 350 lbs/in front, 250 lbs/in rear
      • We can provide any available spring rates upon request...

      for the R32 I'd suggest ordering with stiffer rates. They go for $2,099.00

      This is a quality setup too, no Ksport stuff...

      more info: http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info...roducts_id=260
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    21. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      12-01-2011 11:16 PM #21
      I've heard great things about AST, probably would have their setup if I didn't get the Clubsports...

      Quote Originally Posted by mfbmike View Post
      If all goes according to plan, I should take a ride in an R32 with an AST suspension done along with a full whiteline kit (amongst other things, i.e. schrick 268's) tomorrow.

      Rigi Cola.


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    22. Member mfbmike's Avatar
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      12-02-2011 09:41 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      I tried to look into the AST setup and couldn't find much other than they are affiliated with Performance Shock Inc., which is a company I have recommended people talk to about custom suspension setups on several occasions. If anyone talks to them or gets anymore info, please post here..
      He doesn't post here often anymore, but after hanging out with Drew today, he mentioned Performance Shock on a number of occasions.

      His car feels amazing. AST suspension, Whiteline Kit, Ground control Camber plates, H&R front and rear sways. Incredibly stiff, tight but very much planted and dialed in.
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    23. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-02-2011 09:52 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by mfbmike View Post
      He doesn't post here often anymore, but after hanging out with Drew today, he mentioned Performance Shock on a number of occasions.

      His car feels amazing. AST suspension, Whiteline Kit, Ground control Camber plates, H&R front and rear sways. Incredibly stiff, tight but very much planted and dialed in.
      Sounds like the AST kit is pretty good but still wish there were more details. Is this the 4100 kit that Ryan posted about? I like their design but those spring rates seem strange to me.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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    24. Member mfbmike's Avatar
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      12-02-2011 10:00 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Sounds like the AST kit is pretty good but still wish there were more details. Is this the 4100 kit that Ryan posted about? I like their design but those spring rates seem strange to me.
      I'm not 100% sure if the kit he has if the 4100, or if AST even offers any other kits for our cars. Until today, I had never even heard of AST coilovers for our cars.

      Maybe he'll come out of hiding and chime in with his experiences here. I suggested he should considering he's a pretty knowledgeable guy, and a cool one at that.
      Holy Milltek.
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    25. 12-02-2011 10:09 PM #25
      No comments on the PSS10's?

    26. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-02-2011 10:22 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Vidiot View Post
      No comments on the PSS10's?
      JRutter provided the info I have on PSS10's (he drives a 3.2q A3 and it uses the same PN) and it sounds like he is not too happy with them and is planning on selling them. Spring rates are too low and it's still very uncomfortable according to him. I think they only have one PN for the MkV chassis and obviously our cars are on the heavier end. I haven't heard anything else about them on the MkV but there was a very interesting tech article about them (PSS9) years ago by someone who tested them for the B5 S4 here:
      http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?p=23271726

      I don't know for sure but I think I will avoid Bilsteins based on what I have heard from many people first hand. I have heard many good things about them second hand but you know how that goes...I know a lot of people who have bought multiple suspensions for their cars including bilstiens before they ended up with Ohlins or something equivalent and were finally happy. Part of the purpose of this thread is so that I and anyone who reads it doesn't have to go through that nonsense.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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    27. Member JRutter's Avatar
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      12-03-2011 01:41 AM #27
      The PSS10 actually do OK on the track. They soak up high speed bumps nicely. I have front and rear H&R bars, so even though there is some roll, it is less than say, SHS. It is around town where this combo feels harsh to me. Then again, I let a MK4 Golf guy who has H&R coils on his car do an extended test drive in my car and he was really impressed with the PSS10. Go figure.

      I was considering aftermarket springs, but I don't really have time and space to swap them myself and don't want multiple trips to the shop to try to dial them in by trial and error...
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    28. 12-26-2011 05:30 PM #28
      Slave;

      Tein makes springs and coils to add to your list. One spec states the spring as being 1.5 inches (lowering), but then another rates them as 1.0.


      25.4mm x 1.5in = 38mm drop. So I don't know.

    29. Member ZPrime's Avatar
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      12-27-2011 01:30 AM #29
      There is also Moton, but they are VERY pricy.

      Also Sachs units for our car. The stock dampers are Sachs. The coilover set is one of the less performance-oriented ones though, as it's single 2-way adjustment (i.e. rebound and compression are adjusted simultaneously).

      http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sach...3362_3378.html

      Note that there are apparently two versions, one with a 50mm strut housing diameter and the other is 55mm. I have no idea what our stock diameter is or why both options are shown for the R32 (as I would expect they are all the same?)
      [Forge CAI, BlueFlame catback, DLI mounts, UM software, RNS510+MDI+9W7BT, RacingBrake 4pot, OEM (projector) fogs, other Euro stuff]
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    30. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-27-2011 02:19 PM #30
      Thanks for the extra info...I'll add to the list but hopefully we get some more info on the stuff that is already listed too. It's sad how long the list of available parts is with little to tell anyone more about them besides basically who makes them.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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    31. 12-27-2011 02:58 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Remedy View Post
      Slave;

      Tein makes springs and coils to add to your list. One spec states the spring as being 1.5 inches (lowering), but then another rates them as 1.0.


      25.4mm x 1.5in = 38mm drop. So I don't know.

      Quote Originally Posted by Tein
      Code:
      VOLKSWAGEN	GOLF R32 (V)
      1K	08+	STECH		R32 V6 AWD	SKV90-AUB00$345.00	3.7/207 5.1/286 -25 -1 -25-1
      These are the specs from Tein listed from the site here
      Last edited by Remedy; 12-27-2011 at 03:46 PM.

    32. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-27-2011 03:37 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Remedy View Post
      These are the specs from Tein listed from the site here
      Excellent! Looks like they at least have stiffer springs for the rear
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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      12-27-2011 10:52 PM #33
      Another AST high-end option: the 5300 series at $6399 from performanceshock.com: http://performanceshock.com/ast-susp...st-5300-series

      or Vorshlag (couldn't find a direct link)

      Nirvana for some. Overkill for others.

      Discussed in this post: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130956



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      12-28-2011 12:08 AM #34
      MkV user opinions on Ohlins: http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread...100863&page=19

      Ohlins Dyno info here:



      Came from this thread: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148279

      Starts off as a shock dyno thread, but lots of valuable information within as it evolves.

    35. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      12-28-2011 02:04 PM #35
      Awesome! Thanks ryeboy! That's the kind of discussion and info I like to see. I wonder why so many people here talk s#!t about mkv forums when I mention them as a good resource because again, they always seem to have the "real" info on things while people here talk mostly about personal opinion and hearsay. Anyway, I'm glad we can get more info here one way or another.

      What they say about Ohlins is exactly what I've been trying to explain to people here and why I want more data on all the available options. Then people can see what the differences are and why they might want to pay more or less for one product over another instead of basing their decisions on things like, "I have this kit and I think they are great". Interesting discussion they had on spring rates and the right balance of stiff, but not too stiff for this car..only thing is I think some of them were talking about GTI's but the numbers should be close to what would work for us too...
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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