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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

    1. Member
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      07-07-2012 08:25 PM #211
      I am still searching for stock ride height / close to stock options and still not having much luck... A guy from a shop told me he installed a set of B6 Passat FK coils on a MKV R and was able to dial in stock ride height. I have not re-read this whole thread, but don't recall FK's being mentioned and don't see them in the OP. Are they any good???

      Ryan mentioned that KW makes spacers and directed me to this page on their site which seemed potentially promising. I called KW though, and they told me that they do not recommend using spacers to raise ride height above their suggested range for a given coil kit as you could over extend the upper end travel of the dampeners....

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      07-07-2012 11:35 PM #212
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      I am still searching for stock ride height / close to stock options and still not having much luck... A guy from a shop told me he installed a set of B6 Passat FK coils on a MKV R and was able to dial in stock ride height. I have not re-read this whole thread, but don't recall FK's being mentioned and don't see them in the OP. Are they any good???

      Ryan mentioned that KW makes spacers and directed me to this page on their site which seemed potentially promising. I called KW though, and they told me that they do not recommend using spacers to raise ride height above their suggested range for a given coil kit as you could over extend the upper end travel of the dampeners....
      I think I will end up near stock ride with the Ohlins and GC coilover kit. I was trying to spare everyone the details, but with 8" 350 lb/in springs in back and 7" 450 lb/in springs in front I'm sitting at 25 1/4" in front and 24 3/4" in back. The irony is that these FTG heights are with the fronts dialed all the way down and the backs dialed up to their maximum height. I am trying to get 10" 350 lb/in springs for the rear which should solve the problem. Donovan at GC has been helpful to a fault, so hopefully he will come through for this switch. Once said springs are in place we will have the freedom to dial down the back a tad and dial up the front a tad. It has been more futzing than I was hoping for, but once this has been worked out, it can serve as a template for anyone hoping to do the same.

      Remember: pioneers take the arrows; settlers take the land.

      So far, I'm a happy pioneer. Hopefully others can benefit from my travails.

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      07-08-2012 01:06 AM #213
      I salute you, sir Thanks for being the happy pioneer for us!!



      Hope you get it dialed in to your liking soon!!

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      07-09-2012 05:50 PM #214
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      I think I will end up near stock ride with the Ohlins and GC coilover kit. I was trying to spare everyone the details, but with 8" 350 lb/in springs in back and 7" 450 lb/in springs in front I'm sitting at 25 1/4" in front and 24 3/4" in back. The irony is that these FTG heights are with the fronts dialed all the way down and the backs dialed up to their maximum height. I am trying to get 10" 350 lb/in springs for the rear which should solve the problem. Donovan at GC has been helpful to a fault, so hopefully he will come through for this switch. Once said springs are in place we will have the freedom to dial down the back a tad and dial up the front a tad. It has been more futzing than I was hoping for, but once this has been worked out, it can serve as a template for anyone hoping to do the same.
      So if I were to follow in your moccasin steps with a ground control kit, it would be:
      • 6" 450 lb/in for the front
      • 10" 350 lb/in for the rear


      Would that get me back to stock height, with maybe capability to do a 1" drop? I'm just thinking having that inch to play with is what would enable a corner balance.

      Thanks for your efforts and for sharing.
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      07-10-2012 12:13 AM #215
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      So if I were to follow in your moccasin steps with a ground control kit, it would be:
      • 6" 450 lb/in for the front
      • 10" 350 lb/in for the rear


      Would that get me back to stock height, with maybe capability to do a 1" drop? I'm just thinking having that inch to play with is what would enable a corner balance.

      Thanks for your efforts and for sharing.
      Peach,

      The 10" springs should come this week. Let me give a shout out to Donovan at GC who has accommodated my issues each time at no cost. Kudos!

      The 6" fronts make sense if you want the option to go lower. 25 1/4" is as low as I want to go. I'm already scraping (grazing blows) in places I never used to. My goal is to get front and back up to 25 1/2". I despise driving around with a paranoid mindset about the next road irregularity. It drains the fun out of what is otherwise an amazing machine to drive. Also, don't neglect suspension travel--you lose maybe a 1/2" when switching to 6" springs over 7"ers. With NYC roads, I like all the suspension travel I can manage while maintaining the other virtues of a suspension upgrade.

      I have an appointment with IMS on Monday. Tom wants to sort the suspension then. I can say that as things have broken in with the Ohlins, the ride has become amazingly smooth--to the point where I could imagine higher spring rates (or more aggressive damper settings) and it still being more comfortable than the OEM setup I enjoyed for 4 years. Meanwhile, the vehicle retains the advantages of higher spring rates already in place (reduced roll in corners, faster correction with surface dips, etc.). In any case, Tom of IMS has been a fantastic partner in all of this and I've come to trust his judgement about what to do next. I'll let you know how things progress.

      Edit: BTW, Tom plans to do a corner balance with the 7"/10" F/R combo. I'll let you know how that works out. You may not need 6" front springs to achieve that.
      Last edited by ryeboy; 07-10-2012 at 12:18 AM.

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      07-10-2012 12:31 AM #216
      That's awesome, ryeboy! Great to hear you are zeroing in on your set up and of the excellent support you are getting from GC and Tom @ IMS,

      Any unpleasant creeks, squeaks, rattles or other noises so far? (asking about noise from chasis / suspension - not the brakes which I know will be squealing at least until you get the pads and rotors fully mated)

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      07-10-2012 12:52 AM #217
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      That's awesome, ryeboy! Great to hear you are zeroing in on your set up and of the excellent support you are getting from GC and Tom @ IMS,

      Any unpleasant creeks, squeaks, rattles or other noises so far? (asking about noise from chasis / suspension - not the brakes which I know will be squealing at least until you get the pads and rotors fully mated)
      Hey Jake,

      New NVH? None to speak of. Before being broken in, the dampers were jarring enough to make some chassis noises that had been previously unknown. With some more miles, all that creamy goodness from the Ohlins has taken center stage, and those noises have vanished. Brake noise is abating somewhat, but currently I'm loving the control, modulation, and unsprung weight advantages over stock. Amazing. I'll add to your RB "SBK" review once things have settled down. As I said before, I always try to keep it real and the changes that I've made need time to break in. I'm happy to give updates as things progress, but I'll withhold a final verdict until I believe the new equipment has had a chance to make its case.

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      07-10-2012 12:58 AM #218
      I just realized that I missed a bunch of recent posts in this thread.

      vigs12 - go to the track!! You don't -need- to upgrade anything. I don't have a ton of experience here, just one HPDE (track day) and one AX last fall, but I had BLAST!! Helped me to appreciate my car on a another level and helped me realize some areas where I -wanted- (did not necessarily -need-) to upgrade. I have done a number of upgrades since which I'm chompin at the bit to get back to the track and see how they feel there, but it's not as though a bone stock R is crap. These cars are fun! Go enjoy it, hone your driving skillz some, sure, learn some stuff, yeah, but -- don't stress about it -- have some fun!

      As to the comments about saving weight here or there - ryeboy is right on. Reasonably priced, lightweight wheels and brake rotors (and calipers if you can swing it) are far more cost effective then aluminum spindles and LCAs.

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      07-10-2012 01:07 AM #219
      Hey Jake,

      New NVH? None to speak of. Before being broken in, the dampers were jarring enough to make some chassis noises that had been previously unknown. With some more miles, all that creamy goodness from the Ohlins has taken center stage, and those noises have vanished. Brake noise is abating somewhat, but currently I'm loving the control, modulation, and unsprung weight advantages over stock. Amazing. I'll add to your RB "SBK" review once things have settled down. As I said before, I always try to keep it real and the changes that I've made need time to break in. I'm happy to give updates as things progress, but I'll withhold a final verdict until I believe the new equipment has had a chance to make its case.
      Awesome! I have been wondering if the GC kit would be any ore prone then other coilover options for obtrusive noises, and if the H2 bearings would live up to their promise of no undue NVH. Look forward to hearing more as you get it dialed and settled in!

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      07-10-2012 09:23 AM #220
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      vigs12 - go to the track!! .
      might hit up a drag strip just to see 1/4 mile times and possibly arranging a trip to mosport (in ontario canada) to see what my car can do.

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      07-10-2012 09:44 PM #221
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Awesome! I have been wondering if the GC kit would be any ore prone then other coilover options for obtrusive noises, and if the H2 bearings would live up to their promise of no undue NVH. Look forward to hearing more as you get it dialed and settled in!
      Just to be clear, I am not yet running the H2 LCA bearings. Unlike GC, they have not answered my emails or my phone messages. I'm trying to find a solution, but meanwhile Tom will install the 10" springs (gratis replacement from GC--amazing service!) and the DLI-Teknik mounts (thanks Rdurty2!) on Monday. Maybe also switch out the ET300 RB pads for Porterfield R4-S pads. I'm running the R4-S in the rear and don't have a bit of noise with the RB 2-piece rotors. This is something I meant to do from the get-go, but realized too late that I had the R4 race pads for the front, not the R4-S street pads.

      Anyone know someone with a Passat who would like spherical rear LCA bearings? I've got 'em!

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      07-10-2012 09:55 PM #222
      Ryeboy where is IMS located? 2k for Oehlins is not little but maybe a good investment ( vs my SHS). I just dd the car but more smoothness + better control is tempting.

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      07-11-2012 12:47 PM #223

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      07-11-2012 09:42 PM #224
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Ryeboy where is IMS located? 2k for Oehlins is not little but maybe a good investment ( vs my SHS). I just dd the car but more smoothness + better control is tempting.

      IMS and UMS are both in Shelton, CT

      The Ohlins were purchased from Performance Shock in CA and the GC kit was fabricated by Donovan at GC. Tom is fantastic, but this is no more complicated than any other coilover install. I just didn't have the time. You might want to wait until I sort the set up before you pull the trigger.

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      07-11-2012 11:21 PM #225
      Does anyone know anything about suspension techniques (st) coils? form what i've read they are basically kw v1's with steal body's.

      any truth to this?
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      07-12-2012 10:43 AM #226
      Let us know how you like those porterfields, they're local to me. I just ordered a set of Carbotech 1521's to replace my ET300's for street use.
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      07-12-2012 11:49 AM #227
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryan E. View Post
      Let us know how you like those porterfields, they're local to me. I just ordered a set of Carbotech 1521's to replace my ET300's for street use.
      I have the R4-S pads in back and they seem great. Nice match with the RB 2-piece rotors. They have mated with absolutely zero noise. Ironically, the ET300 pads continue to make horrible noise once a bit warm--even after 500 miles. Seems ironic that Warren can't make a street pad that doesn't make a racket with his own rotors.

      Anywho, the R4-S pads for the front should arrive this week. I'm saving the R4s for track days. The R4s seem very reasonably priced for a racing pad ($106 on sale from topbrakes.com). I'll report back (I assume you are more interested in the R4, not the R4-S, yes?).

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      07-12-2012 02:53 PM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by rhcp4life View Post
      Does anyone know anything about suspension techniques (st) coils? form what i've read they are basically kw v1's with steal body's.

      any truth to this?
      Yes, except they are both made of "steel". I have them listed under KW V1's in the OP. KW's have "inox-line" treatment and ST's are galvanized.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      07-12-2012 03:07 PM #229
      well I missed that...

      I may be getting a set soon at cost!
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      07-12-2012 03:18 PM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by rhcp4life View Post
      well I missed that...

      I may be getting a set soon at cost!
      Cool, they are already a good deal to begin with if that's what you are after. Personally, I'd pay more for something better or maybe a bit less for something like Koni FSD with some aftermarket springs. Good luck though.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      07-12-2012 09:48 PM #231
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Cool, they are already a good deal to begin with if that's what you are after. Personally, I'd pay more for something better or maybe a bit less for something like Koni FSD with some aftermarket springs. Good luck though.
      Speaking of cost...

      The Ohlins + GC conversion ran about $2300+shipping. That seems pretty competitive with many inferior coilover kits out there. Not cheap to be sure. But a reasonable price for a highly customizable suspension set up. I continue to urge patience to those itching for a similar set up until I have had a chance to sort out the details regarding spring length and rates. YMMV, but once I've dialed in a 25" ftg ride height on 450 lb/in fronts and 350 lb/in rears, one can make some pretty educated estimates on spring parameters to achieve one's goals.

      More details on Tuesday after the 10" rear springs go in and Tom of IMS balances things out.
      Last edited by ryeboy; 07-12-2012 at 09:51 PM. Reason: clarity

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      07-12-2012 09:58 PM #232
      Awesome, thanks ryeboy! That price is lower than I thought it would be..with springs? Sounds like a steal to me.

      Much cheaper/better than buying a cheaper suspension that you won't be happy with, swapping it out for another one that still won't be as good as the Ohlins setup and then giving up and settling for inferior products because you tried to take a shortcut in the first place.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      07-12-2012 10:34 PM #233
      Cliffnotes of the 7 pages of this thread please?
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      07-12-2012 11:23 PM #234
      Quote Originally Posted by mfbmike View Post
      Cliffnotes of the 7 pages of this thread please?
      Reader's Digest version: lots of suspension options out there. Pick your price point and poison.

      Slave, to his credit, wanted to gather hard data about suspension options so that owners could make informed decisions about their own set ups. Helpful to be sure, but not the thread to get "reviews" or "advice". The MkVgolf forum (white james, Bostonaudi, the bruce, etc) provide extensive details about suspension options for the GTI (likely applicable to the R32 but YMMV).

      To the detriment of Slave's goal, I believe I've mucked up a well-focused thread. I've introduced unsprung weight, brakes, brake pads, into what Slave wanted to be a pure suspension spec thread. I guess I should bite the bullet and start a build thread to share what I've done/doing. Getting rid of my specific changes might make this thread easier to digest.

      Mea Culpa...

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      07-13-2012 03:10 PM #235
      naw ryeboy, all of your input here is greatly appreciated and relevant. I want to keep the OP specific to suspension parts and specs but by all means, we can discuss anything related here.

      My main purpose here is to try to get hard data on products that get slanged for our cars for years here with little to no actual information about them other than how low they can make your car go. I guess I was wrong about most the people in this group but in my past experience, people usually got suspension for performance/handling more than anything else and from the little info we have gathered, it seems like lowering is not the way to do that on this car (unless you do a whole lot of other things as well). Things like spring rates and damper technology make a huge difference in handling characteristics and those things are not really discussed by the majority of the people who offer products here.

      Basically, if you just want to go low, pick any one of the options that lower within the range you want and you should be good to go. It gets a bit trickier if you want performance/handling and at some point, it would be great to get some slalom and other real world performance numbers in this thread. As for comfort, ryeboy, have your tried any other setups other than yours on this car? I'm willing to bet that no other option comes close to the comfort of your Ohlins.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      07-13-2012 10:58 PM #236
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      naw ryeboy, all of your input here is greatly appreciated and relevant. I want to keep the OP specific to suspension parts and specs but by all means, we can discuss anything related here.

      My main purpose here is to try to get hard data on products that get slanged for our cars for years here with little to no actual information about them other than how low they can make your car go. I guess I was wrong about most the people in this group but in my past experience, people usually got suspension for performance/handling more than anything else and from the little info we have gathered, it seems like lowering is not the way to do that on this car (unless you do a whole lot of other things as well). Things like spring rates and damper technology make a huge difference in handling characteristics and those things are not really discussed by the majority of the people who offer products here.

      Basically, if you just want to go low, pick any one of the options that lower within the range you want and you should be good to go. It gets a bit trickier if you want performance/handling and at some point, it would be great to get some slalom and other real world performance numbers in this thread. As for comfort, ryeboy, have your tried any other setups other than yours on this car? I'm willing to bet that no other option comes close to the comfort of your Ohlins.
      Other setups? Nope. I've been OEM from 8 miles on the odometer. I had a wild ride in Jesse's R36 with Tom at the wheel and that was very respectable (SHS coilovers), but hard to judge given such brief seat time. That said, the Ohlins are a huge improvement over the OEM Sachs and I think an improvement over the SHS setup (to my recollection based on brief seat time).

      I appreciate your patience regarding off-topic posts, but I do think I have a habit of diluting well-conceived threads such as this one with my ramblings. Basically, I'm too lazy to start my own threads, but I'll try to remedy that in the future.

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      07-15-2012 10:01 AM #237
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      Other setups? Nope. I've been OEM from 8 miles on the odometer. I had a wild ride in Jesse's R36 with Tom at the wheel and that was very respectable (SHS coilovers), but hard to judge given such brief seat time. That said, the Ohlins are a huge improvement over the OEM Sachs and I think an improvement over the SHS setup (to my recollection based on brief seat time).
      Come to central jersey and we can compare my shs to your oehlins more in depth

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      07-15-2012 06:04 PM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Come to central jersey and we can compare my shs to your oehlins more in depth
      Funny, I was thinking the same thing...except inviting you to Westchester

      Maybe meet up somewhere in northern Jersey or Bear Mountain?

      Seriously, I think comparing some setups back to back would provide a lot of insight into the various suspension options. I guess the ToD meet up would have been ideal for such a thing. I would be interested to compare the SHS, the Koni FSD, the various KW options, and of course the Ohlins.

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      07-15-2012 06:42 PM #239
      I've had 2 sets of SHS fail after a weekend at the dragon.



      2 years in a row


      Yay
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      07-15-2012 08:43 PM #240
      Or just come to Waterfest we could meet somewhere

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      07-16-2012 11:21 AM #241
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Or just come to Waterfest we could meet somewhere
      Waterfest is a good idea, but alas I leave for Germany on the 21st. After I get back, I'll have some time as the wife and our boy are at her folks for 2 weeks.

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      07-16-2012 01:01 PM #242
      Greetings to the Vaterland !

    33. 07-16-2012 08:14 PM #243
      Wow, just read through all of the posts. I love the information! Many moons ago, I too started on this suspension trek also. Graduate school put a pause to it. Here is a link to my old post http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...pe-suspension!

      I am now ready to resume playing.

      BTW, as in my link: Factory rates were measured at 180 lbs up front and 250lbs in the rear.

      My current setup, non-coil over: 250 front and 375 rear with rear NSB at hardest setting

      Plans are: coil over (not sure which), H2sport spindles, passat aluminum LCA with H2port bearings, H2sport camber plates, Tyrol sport subframe bushing kit, RB aluminum front calipers and 2 piece front & rear rotors.

      Manny

    34. Banned
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      07-17-2012 07:43 AM #244
      Interesting that the rates are so different. One higher in the front the other in the back .... Hmmm

    35. Member
      Join Date
      Jan 28th, 2008
      Location
      Rye, NY
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      UG MkV R32; 4.2 Q7 Daytona Grey
      07-17-2012 10:05 AM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by yellow bunny View Post
      Wow, just read through all of the posts. I love the information! Many moons ago, I too started on this suspension trek also. Graduate school put a pause to it. Here is a link to my old post http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...pe-suspension!

      I am now ready to resume playing.

      BTW, as in my link: Factory rates were measured at 180 lbs up front and 250lbs in the rear.

      My current setup, non-coil over: 250 front and 375 rear with rear NSB at hardest setting

      Plans are: coil over (not sure which), H2sport spindles, passat aluminum LCA with H2port bearings, H2sport camber plates, Tyrol sport subframe bushing kit, RB aluminum front calipers and 2 piece front & rear rotors.

      Manny
      Manny, Very interesting thread. Shame it petered out 2 years ago. When I have more time, I'll chime in with some more thoughts.

      Thanks for sharing!

      Jay

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