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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

    1. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      07-12-2012 10:43 AM #226
      Let us know how you like those porterfields, they're local to me. I just ordered a set of Carbotech 1521's to replace my ET300's for street use.
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

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      07-12-2012 11:49 AM #227
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryan E. View Post
      Let us know how you like those porterfields, they're local to me. I just ordered a set of Carbotech 1521's to replace my ET300's for street use.
      I have the R4-S pads in back and they seem great. Nice match with the RB 2-piece rotors. They have mated with absolutely zero noise. Ironically, the ET300 pads continue to make horrible noise once a bit warm--even after 500 miles. Seems ironic that Warren can't make a street pad that doesn't make a racket with his own rotors.

      Anywho, the R4-S pads for the front should arrive this week. I'm saving the R4s for track days. The R4s seem very reasonably priced for a racing pad ($106 on sale from topbrakes.com). I'll report back (I assume you are more interested in the R4, not the R4-S, yes?).

    3. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 02:53 PM #228
      Quote Originally Posted by rhcp4life View Post
      Does anyone know anything about suspension techniques (st) coils? form what i've read they are basically kw v1's with steal body's.

      any truth to this?
      Yes, except they are both made of "steel". I have them listed under KW V1's in the OP. KW's have "inox-line" treatment and ST's are galvanized.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-12-2012 03:07 PM #229
      well I missed that...

      I may be getting a set soon at cost!
      Projekt German Auto Grüppe - German car entusiast club based in Iowa with members all over the Midwest

    5. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 03:18 PM #230
      Quote Originally Posted by rhcp4life View Post
      well I missed that...

      I may be getting a set soon at cost!
      Cool, they are already a good deal to begin with if that's what you are after. Personally, I'd pay more for something better or maybe a bit less for something like Koni FSD with some aftermarket springs. Good luck though.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-12-2012 09:48 PM #231
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Cool, they are already a good deal to begin with if that's what you are after. Personally, I'd pay more for something better or maybe a bit less for something like Koni FSD with some aftermarket springs. Good luck though.
      Speaking of cost...

      The Ohlins + GC conversion ran about $2300+shipping. That seems pretty competitive with many inferior coilover kits out there. Not cheap to be sure. But a reasonable price for a highly customizable suspension set up. I continue to urge patience to those itching for a similar set up until I have had a chance to sort out the details regarding spring length and rates. YMMV, but once I've dialed in a 25" ftg ride height on 450 lb/in fronts and 350 lb/in rears, one can make some pretty educated estimates on spring parameters to achieve one's goals.

      More details on Tuesday after the 10" rear springs go in and Tom of IMS balances things out.
      Last edited by ryeboy; 07-12-2012 at 09:51 PM. Reason: clarity

    7. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 09:58 PM #232
      Awesome, thanks ryeboy! That price is lower than I thought it would be..with springs? Sounds like a steal to me.

      Much cheaper/better than buying a cheaper suspension that you won't be happy with, swapping it out for another one that still won't be as good as the Ohlins setup and then giving up and settling for inferior products because you tried to take a shortcut in the first place.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    8. Member mfbmike's Avatar
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      07-12-2012 10:34 PM #233
      Cliffnotes of the 7 pages of this thread please?
      Current: 996 911 Turbo, E30 325i, MK7 GTI
      Past: B6 A4, NA Miata, FR-S, MK5 R32

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      07-12-2012 11:23 PM #234
      Quote Originally Posted by mfbmike View Post
      Cliffnotes of the 7 pages of this thread please?
      Reader's Digest version: lots of suspension options out there. Pick your price point and poison.

      Slave, to his credit, wanted to gather hard data about suspension options so that owners could make informed decisions about their own set ups. Helpful to be sure, but not the thread to get "reviews" or "advice". The MkVgolf forum (white james, Bostonaudi, the bruce, etc) provide extensive details about suspension options for the GTI (likely applicable to the R32 but YMMV).

      To the detriment of Slave's goal, I believe I've mucked up a well-focused thread. I've introduced unsprung weight, brakes, brake pads, into what Slave wanted to be a pure suspension spec thread. I guess I should bite the bullet and start a build thread to share what I've done/doing. Getting rid of my specific changes might make this thread easier to digest.

      Mea Culpa...

      --Jay

    10. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      07-13-2012 03:10 PM #235
      naw ryeboy, all of your input here is greatly appreciated and relevant. I want to keep the OP specific to suspension parts and specs but by all means, we can discuss anything related here.

      My main purpose here is to try to get hard data on products that get slanged for our cars for years here with little to no actual information about them other than how low they can make your car go. I guess I was wrong about most the people in this group but in my past experience, people usually got suspension for performance/handling more than anything else and from the little info we have gathered, it seems like lowering is not the way to do that on this car (unless you do a whole lot of other things as well). Things like spring rates and damper technology make a huge difference in handling characteristics and those things are not really discussed by the majority of the people who offer products here.

      Basically, if you just want to go low, pick any one of the options that lower within the range you want and you should be good to go. It gets a bit trickier if you want performance/handling and at some point, it would be great to get some slalom and other real world performance numbers in this thread. As for comfort, ryeboy, have your tried any other setups other than yours on this car? I'm willing to bet that no other option comes close to the comfort of your Ohlins.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      07-13-2012 10:58 PM #236
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      naw ryeboy, all of your input here is greatly appreciated and relevant. I want to keep the OP specific to suspension parts and specs but by all means, we can discuss anything related here.

      My main purpose here is to try to get hard data on products that get slanged for our cars for years here with little to no actual information about them other than how low they can make your car go. I guess I was wrong about most the people in this group but in my past experience, people usually got suspension for performance/handling more than anything else and from the little info we have gathered, it seems like lowering is not the way to do that on this car (unless you do a whole lot of other things as well). Things like spring rates and damper technology make a huge difference in handling characteristics and those things are not really discussed by the majority of the people who offer products here.

      Basically, if you just want to go low, pick any one of the options that lower within the range you want and you should be good to go. It gets a bit trickier if you want performance/handling and at some point, it would be great to get some slalom and other real world performance numbers in this thread. As for comfort, ryeboy, have your tried any other setups other than yours on this car? I'm willing to bet that no other option comes close to the comfort of your Ohlins.
      Other setups? Nope. I've been OEM from 8 miles on the odometer. I had a wild ride in Jesse's R36 with Tom at the wheel and that was very respectable (SHS coilovers), but hard to judge given such brief seat time. That said, the Ohlins are a huge improvement over the OEM Sachs and I think an improvement over the SHS setup (to my recollection based on brief seat time).

      I appreciate your patience regarding off-topic posts, but I do think I have a habit of diluting well-conceived threads such as this one with my ramblings. Basically, I'm too lazy to start my own threads, but I'll try to remedy that in the future.

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      07-15-2012 10:01 AM #237
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      Other setups? Nope. I've been OEM from 8 miles on the odometer. I had a wild ride in Jesse's R36 with Tom at the wheel and that was very respectable (SHS coilovers), but hard to judge given such brief seat time. That said, the Ohlins are a huge improvement over the OEM Sachs and I think an improvement over the SHS setup (to my recollection based on brief seat time).
      Come to central jersey and we can compare my shs to your oehlins more in depth

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      07-15-2012 06:04 PM #238
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Come to central jersey and we can compare my shs to your oehlins more in depth
      Funny, I was thinking the same thing...except inviting you to Westchester

      Maybe meet up somewhere in northern Jersey or Bear Mountain?

      Seriously, I think comparing some setups back to back would provide a lot of insight into the various suspension options. I guess the ToD meet up would have been ideal for such a thing. I would be interested to compare the SHS, the Koni FSD, the various KW options, and of course the Ohlins.

    14. Senior Member abeR's Avatar
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      07-15-2012 06:42 PM #239
      I've had 2 sets of SHS fail after a weekend at the dragon.



      2 years in a row


      Yay
      WITW

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      07-15-2012 08:43 PM #240
      Or just come to Waterfest we could meet somewhere

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      07-16-2012 11:21 AM #241
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Or just come to Waterfest we could meet somewhere
      Waterfest is a good idea, but alas I leave for Germany on the 21st. After I get back, I'll have some time as the wife and our boy are at her folks for 2 weeks.

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      07-16-2012 01:01 PM #242
      Greetings to the Vaterland !

    18. 07-16-2012 08:14 PM #243
      Wow, just read through all of the posts. I love the information! Many moons ago, I too started on this suspension trek also. Graduate school put a pause to it. Here is a link to my old post http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...pe-suspension!

      I am now ready to resume playing.

      BTW, as in my link: Factory rates were measured at 180 lbs up front and 250lbs in the rear.

      My current setup, non-coil over: 250 front and 375 rear with rear NSB at hardest setting

      Plans are: coil over (not sure which), H2sport spindles, passat aluminum LCA with H2port bearings, H2sport camber plates, Tyrol sport subframe bushing kit, RB aluminum front calipers and 2 piece front & rear rotors.

      Manny

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      07-17-2012 07:43 AM #244
      Interesting that the rates are so different. One higher in the front the other in the back .... Hmmm

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      07-17-2012 10:05 AM #245
      Quote Originally Posted by yellow bunny View Post
      Wow, just read through all of the posts. I love the information! Many moons ago, I too started on this suspension trek also. Graduate school put a pause to it. Here is a link to my old post http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...pe-suspension!

      I am now ready to resume playing.

      BTW, as in my link: Factory rates were measured at 180 lbs up front and 250lbs in the rear.

      My current setup, non-coil over: 250 front and 375 rear with rear NSB at hardest setting

      Plans are: coil over (not sure which), H2sport spindles, passat aluminum LCA with H2port bearings, H2sport camber plates, Tyrol sport subframe bushing kit, RB aluminum front calipers and 2 piece front & rear rotors.

      Manny
      Manny, Very interesting thread. Shame it petered out 2 years ago. When I have more time, I'll chime in with some more thoughts.

      Thanks for sharing!

      Jay

    21. 07-17-2012 10:09 AM #246
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Interesting that the rates are so different. One higher in the front the other in the back .... Hmmm
      Spent some hours at Shine Racing. Mr. Shine generously shared his expertise! Measurements were taken, ftg, roll center figured...springs measured etc. We tested with/ without OEM and with NSB RSBs.

      I was surprised to learn that the front springs were a softer rate as compared to rear.

      I didnt mention on here but I'm running Koni Sports at present.

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      07-17-2012 10:14 AM #247
      Both of you are staying close to stock height and the rear spring rates are almost identical 350 and 375 but the front is anything but 250 vs 450. Wonder if one of you could try the other option 250>450 or 450>250 and see what the difference feels like.

    23. 07-17-2012 10:33 AM #248
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Both of you are staying close to stock height and the rear spring rates are almost identical 350 and 375 but the front is anything but 250 vs 450. Wonder if one of you could try the other option 250>450 or 450>250 and see what the difference feels like.
      I am planning to experiment, I am planning to see how Jay makes out. I need a little more time to piece together some parts.

      I just Purchased a used PSS 10 from the classifieds. So the PSS springs will be set aside. I think Bilstein makes a quality damper but the spring rates that come with the kit are too soft 250F and 285R, IMO for what I'm looking for. I think this is what is hindering to the most part some people's opinion of the PSS system.

      Things left to buy: camber plates, sport hubs, LCA spherical bearings.
      Last edited by yellow bunny; 07-17-2012 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Found PSS spring rates

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      07-17-2012 10:42 AM #249
      Maybe the front springs could be used for a test on the GC/Oehlins set up ( as this is the same rate of your set up) .....

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      07-17-2012 12:26 PM #250
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Both of you are staying close to stock height and the rear spring rates are almost identical 350 and 375 but the front is anything but 250 vs 450. Wonder if one of you could try the other option 250>450 or 450>250 and see what the difference feels like.
      Easier said than done

      Agreed that it would be an interesting experiment.

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