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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

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      09-25-2012 06:40 PM #316
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Thanks...the FSD's may have been even better with higher rate springs...seem to be very similar to the Ohlins but no way to tell without trying both. My money is still on Ohlins but I've yet to try the MkV platform on anything but stock and PSS10's.
      My guess too that the FSD with more appropriate springs would improve at high speed spirited driving. Question is how big the difference between FSD and Oehlins is ( and when one notices it .... every day or just at the limit). Expensive guess

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      09-25-2012 06:59 PM #317
      Money is also a problem... so no ohlins or SHS's.. or FSD'S... So either the neuspeeds or the ST's, probably the ST's since I might as well if I'm doing suspension... I hope they ride fine

    3. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 07:18 PM #318
      Quote Originally Posted by jedy617 View Post
      Money is also a problem... so no ohlins or SHS's.. or FSD'S... So either the neuspeeds or the ST's, probably the ST's since I might as well if I'm doing suspension... I hope they ride fine
      Aren't fsd's around the same price or less than ST's? Anyways, it's just my opinion but it makes more sense to me to get what you really want the first time instead of settling for less over price. If you can't afford now, just save up until you can. Usually saves you money and gives more satisfaction especially if you really aren't happy with what you settled for. I'd advise you to try some different setups out if you can in other people's cars before you decide. I haven't tried ST's in any car but I have tried KW's (V1's should feel the same as ST's) and they are nice but for the price I would want something better even if I have to pay more.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 07:30 PM #319
      How much $ are the ST?

    5. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 07:51 PM #320
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      How much $ are the ST?
      I just checked one spot and they have ST's for $779.95. I saw FSD's for $585. Pretty close...I'd go with FSD's regardless of price even though you are getting "more" with the ST's.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 07:54 PM #321
      I am looking at a gently used set of ST's.. also I want more than just the FSD's since I would like a little drop which means springs too. The FSD's are $750 WITHOUT springs and I can get the set of ST's for $450. Also, I'm not sure if I would gain much handling benefits with the FSD's.. just a little lowering and good ride comfort.

    7. Member Lolasaurus_Rex's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 08:03 PM #322
      MJM has the FSDs for ~$650 with a Neuspeed 25mm rear sway bar, IIRC.
      @jayyyw

    8. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 08:09 PM #323
      Here is where I found FSD's for $585 (just googled it): http://www.redline-motorworks.com/pr.../2100.4016.htm
      Not sure if they are the right ones because they say it's for GTI, R32, etc...

      Anyways, that sounds like a good deal for the ST's and I understand your situation. I just wouldn't want them for my car at any price even though they are nice.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    9. 09-25-2012 08:11 PM #324
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      How much $ are the ST?
      Anyone that decides on STs can PM me...

      They are similar to a V1 (valving is a little different...), except zinc-plated (no stainless steel) and a 5 year warranty (no lifetime like KW)...

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      09-25-2012 08:16 PM #325
      HPA what are the differences ( spring rates etc) between ST and SHS

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      09-25-2012 08:17 PM #326
      Thanks Slave, I am just confused why you wouldn't go with the ST's? Also, what springs would you recommend with the FSD's?

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      09-25-2012 08:23 PM #327
      Quote Originally Posted by jedy617 View Post
      I am looking at a gently used set of ST's.. also I want more than just the FSD's since I would like a little drop which means springs too. The FSD's are $750 WITHOUT springs and I can get the set of ST's for $450. Also, I'm not sure if I would gain much handling benefits with the FSD's.. just a little lowering and good ride comfort.
      Then go with the $450 and sell them if you don 't like them

    13. 09-25-2012 08:27 PM #328
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      HPA what are the differences ( spring rates etc) between ST and SHS
      Didn't Marcel post up the SHS spring rates somewhere in this thread? I thought he had...

      ST springs for the R are listed as "progressive" for the front and rear in the app guide, wish I could help more...

      The only issue I see with ST (and I sell hundreds of these kits) is that KW tends to "blanket" multiple applications with the same part number (Audi A3 FWD, Mk5 GTI, and JSW all use the same part number, for example). Even though the vehicle weights and specifications vary slightly, there is no variance in kits, unlike the V1.

      Of course with the R32 there is a specific unique application...

    14. Senior Member abeR's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 08:33 PM #329
      Kinda like how HPA sells the SHS?
      A blanket application


      Funny you say that
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    15. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 08:38 PM #330
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      HPA what are the differences ( spring rates etc) between ST and SHS
      Hehe, good luck getting an answer for that. Next time I see KW at an event, I'm going to ask them myself.

      Quote Originally Posted by jedy617 View Post
      Thanks Slave, I am just confused why you wouldn't go with the ST's? Also, what springs would you recommend with the FSD's?
      Nothing against them but it's just based on the explanation I gave earlier. Basically, I like doing things once the "right" way. "Right" may be something different to different people but for me, if I was ever going to change the suspension, I want the best handling I can get with as much comfort I can get, regardless of price. So far, everything I've seen, heard and experienced has told me that means Ohlins so I'd rather wait and get those than spend any time dealing with anything else. That way, more info might come up and maybe even other, better options.

      As for springs, some of us have been trying to get custom Swift springs made with higher rates and maybe a slight lowering (.5"-1" at most) which will work with either Ohlins, FSD's or the stock dampers. Swift specializes in making linear spring replacements for any application and they already said they could do something for us but the price gets lower the more we order. Dampers are mostly made to work with a specific spring rate but they will usually be fine if you stick within a 200lb difference. Worst thing is you might have to revalve if you blow your dampers. Since you are working on a limited budget and seem to want to spend the least amount possible, I'd do as BlixaBargeld suggested and just go with the ST's and sell them later if you don't like them.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 08:41 PM #331
      Thanks, I would love to get the FSD's with nice springs maybe I should just wait ans save but I also might regret it if I forget about the ST's and they are sold. Thanks for all the help!

      Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

    17. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 08:42 PM #332
      Only spring rates I've seen from KW are in the OP. For the Clubsports:
      Spring Type/Rates: Linear Springs / 514lb front / 400lb rear
      I misread that you were asking about SHS, which HPA should have the info to but I've never seen it.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    18. 09-25-2012 08:43 PM #333
      Quote Originally Posted by abeR View Post
      Kinda like how HPA sells the SHS?
      A blanket application...
      SHS is completely different...I have the part number breakdown for each SHS application, there is only overlap when required (similar to the V1)...

    19. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 08:46 PM #334
      Quote Originally Posted by jedy617 View Post
      Thanks, I would love to get the FSD's with nice springs maybe I should just wait ans save but I also might regret it if I forget about the ST's and they are sold. Thanks for all the help!

      Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
      NP...I always thought ST's were the same as KW V1 but I guess I was wrong about that...probably very similar either way though. I think there are some reviews for FSD's with stock springs here..you may want to just give those a try and get different springs later if it's not good enough for you. I'm pretty sure they will improve handling and comfort over the stock dampers, which are the real weak part of the suspension, IMO.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 08:55 PM #335
      I would do just the struts but I still want to have a little lowering so that's probably out of the question, I might as well do the shocks/struts at the same time I'm thinking

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      09-25-2012 08:59 PM #336
      Anyone know the threshold on spring rates for the FSDs?
      @jayyyw

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      09-25-2012 09:01 PM #337
      BTW just found out that the FSD's for the R32 and GTI have different part numbers so I wouldn't want to go with the one's on redline... Damn that means back to $750 unless they are the same product even with different part numbers...

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      09-25-2012 09:08 PM #338
      Best bet is to call Koni and find out.
      @jayyyw

    24. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 09:12 PM #339
      Quote Originally Posted by Lolasaurus_Rex View Post
      Anyone know the threshold on spring rates for the FSDs?
      I don't know for sure but like I said, most dampers can handle springs within a couple hundred lbs of what they were designed for. They are designed for stock springs and so far, those seem to be 180F/250R so something around what ryeboy got should be fine.

      Quote Originally Posted by jedy617 View Post
      BTW just found out that the FSD's for the R32 and GTI have different part numbers so I wouldn't want to go with the one's on redline... Damn that means back to $750 unless they are the same product even with different part numbers...
      Yeah, I was afraid of that when I saw the applications they listed on that site. I'd definitely find out for sure before you order from them.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 09:14 PM #340
      Who did install the koni for the GTI and was bottoming out? Someone sold the incorrect ones .....
      Search doesn't work well enough in the app I am using

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      09-25-2012 10:13 PM #341
      My initial impressions driving around with the same springs as Ryeboy has with his Ohlins (me on FSDs) are not great as far as bumpy roads. The car seems to jiggle around so much over bumps just on my mellow drive to work that I think I would make myself motion sick actually trying to attack one of my favorite backroads. The way the FSDs soaked up bumps compared to stock dampers was magic, but this feels like a massive step backward in that regard, so seems maybe they are not able to cope with the spring rates.

      I don't know how much to trust GC yet, but having talked with them about this before deciding what different springs to try, they are now telling me (again - after the fact) that the spring rates I ordered are at at the max of what the FSDs can handle. He suggested softer springs both front and rear, so I guess I will be trying that. Now have to decide if I want to pay for another install or attempt a DIY this weekend. Hm... Anyone ever swap all 4 springs on a weekend afternoon (in a driveway - not on a lift)? I wonder how much work it is / if I could get it done in one day.

      Anyway, it might still turn out good (for my taste), but from my experience now I would say do NOT plan on stiff linear springs with FSDs. If you want to do a GC kit with stiff spring rates and don't want to spend the money on Ohlins, I gather (from GC) Koni Yellows would be a better choice, or maybe Bilsteins as suggested by yellow bunny.

    27. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 10:15 PM #342
      Thanks for the input...how long have you been running the springs? ryeboy mentioned it felt a lot better after they settled in for his Ohlins.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 10:39 PM #343
      Install was just last week so only 4, ~10 mile daily commutes on them so far. Not enough to settle or break in all the way I'm sure. If my front end were not sitting an inch higher then the rear, I would have taken it out for a proper thrashing over the weekend to see what's what. Feels pretty weird right now with the front all jacked up tho...

      I'm due to get the other springs tomorrow. I have 450 7" / 350 10" both adjusted all the way down, and GC sent me 425 5" front and 280 9" rears. That's what they suggested to match better with the FSDs damping abilities and for front / rear spring rate balance. I was going to swap just the front springs to address the height issue but with these 10" rears all the way down resulting in the max height I would want, I have no where to go in terms of adjustment. So this way thinking I'll have some room to fiddle. It's not going to be "optimal" for track - for sure - but I'll be happy if it works better then with the OE springs for both street and track (pretty sure it will) and does not jiggle me to death over the bumps (finger crossed...).

    29. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      09-25-2012 10:51 PM #344
      Oh..you don't have the GC coilover kit either do you? Probably not the best idea to go with the exact same springs as ryeboy in that case. He did mention his setup seemed harsh until after about 500 miles though. Also, I know it's been mentioned but I think it's strange that GC recommends higher rates in the front when the OE setup seems to have higher rates in the rear. But that being said, it's also strange to me that the OEM has higher rates in the rear because OEM setups usually tend towards understeer and higher rates in the rear would reduce understeer. Maybe GC is giving you guys rates that work more closely to most OEM handling characteristics though?
      I wish it was easier to get confirmed numbers on this kinda thing for this car.
      If the numbers are correct for the oem spring rates, I'd want to keep that balance or go even stiffer for the rear springs but there are probably things I don't understand at play too.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      09-25-2012 11:39 PM #345
      This thread... it is now confusing the hell out of me... I'm out!

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      09-25-2012 11:43 PM #346
      .
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      09-25-2012 11:46 PM #347
      Lol Abe...

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      09-26-2012 12:37 AM #348
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post

      OEM has higher rates in the rear because OEM setups usually tend towards understeer and higher rates in the rear would reduce understeer.
      careful now.
      You cant go by just the spring rates. Remember, the motion ratios for the front and rear are different. The Front strut has the spring out close to the tire, while the rear multilink has the spring inboard, with the leverage of the lower arm increasing mechanical advantage on the spring... so the effective spring rate is much less in the rear than the front... Also, remember the weight up front is greater than the weight in the back....

      Im not going to get specific into the math and geometry, but now you are getting into motion ratios and wheel rates. Not just spring rates!

      but i agree, i dont understand the swap of high/low vs low/high.... and how it helps handling. Stiffer up front would reduce grip, and increase understeer. Possibly a stiffer RSB would be needed to keep the balance happy?
      Audi is the girl who was really cute in high school, but now puts on way too much makeup in order to try and hang out with the hot girls.

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      09-26-2012 12:54 AM #349
      Slave IV
      Oh..you don't have the GC coilover kit either do you?
      jedy617
      This thread... it is now confusing the hell out of me... I'm out!
      Sorry if my ramblings are confusing. In case anyone cares, abbreviated recap on my set up:

      * I was on stock springs and Koni FSDs - rear was 'OK', front springs felt like absolute mush
      * wanted to stay roughly stock ride height and increase spring stiffness a lot in the front, a little rear
      * Debated for a while between a GC kit and other options, finally tried GC coilover conversion kit
      * Ryeboy is only other MKV R32 owner I know of who has used a GC kit, and he likes his results
      * Ryeboy (Jay) is running Ohlins dampers, GC kit with 450lb 7" front, 350lb 10" rear springs
      * I asked GC if same springs as Jay with Koni FSDs should work and yield similar results, they said yes
      * Ordered GC kit for Konis, same springs as Jay, ended up 26.75" front 25.75" rear, and too stiff
      * will be trying 5" 425lb front, 9" 280lb rear springs (from GC) soon
      * Lessons learned so far:
      * ........Ohlins have removable perches, Koni's do not (can possibly be cut / ground off...)
      * ........Ohlins can handle stiff springs, Koni FSDs not so much (Koni Yellows / other options likely better)


      Does that help?

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      09-26-2012 03:28 AM #350
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Sorry if my ramblings are confusing. In case anyone cares, abbreviated recap on my set up:

      * I was on stock springs and Koni FSDs - rear was 'OK', front springs felt like absolute mush
      * wanted to stay roughly stock ride height and increase spring stiffness a lot in the front, a little rear
      * Debated for a while between a GC kit and other options, finally tried GC coilover conversion kit
      * Ryeboy is only other MKV R32 owner I know of who has used a GC kit, and he likes his results
      * Ryeboy (Jay) is running Ohlins dampers, GC kit with 450lb 7" front, 350lb 10" rear springs
      * I asked GC if same springs as Jay with Koni FSDs should work and yield similar results, they said yes
      * Ordered GC kit for Konis, same springs as Jay, ended up 26.75" front 25.75" rear, and too stiff
      * will be trying 5" 425lb front, 9" 280lb rear springs (from GC) soon
      * Lessons learned so far:
      * ........Ohlins have removable perches, Koni's do not (can possibly be cut / ground off...)
      * ........Ohlins can handle stiff springs, Koni FSDs not so much (Koni Yellows / other options likely better)


      Does that help?
      Very much so haha my choices are much much simpler... either coilovers, springs, or FSD's with springs. Your whole setup seems somewhat complicated but I think that's just me haha

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