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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

    1. Member
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      10-02-2012 06:28 PM #376
      I asked on here before and got no reply, but what would you guys recommend for a track set up; Bilstein struts and H&R springs or Some KW v1 coilovers? I'm looking to spend around a grand, less if possible. Thanks!
      '13 CW Golf R
      '08 UG R32 - Brother's - RIP
      '10 Audi A4 - Momma's

    2. 10-02-2012 07:09 PM #377
      personally I would go with Bilstein Sports and Factory springs. IMO Then use the other money and go to the track and get to know your car.

      Tires should be on your list for the track.

    3. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      10-02-2012 08:32 PM #378
      Thanks for all the recent updates! Sucks about the FSD's...sounds like those are not a great option for this car since they didn't even bother to change much between the kits for the GTi and R32. I would still try them with different springs and not use the GC coilover kit.

      whyderp, between your two options, I'd go with KW V1's. But if you really want a track setup, how much track time do you have in the car so far? If not too much, I'd suggest tracking it with the stock suspension to see exactly what you want to improve and save your money in the meantime. I really think Ohlins are the way to go (even with stock springs) or maybe the KW Clubsports. It might cost more than you want to spend now but if you save up, work on your driving and be patient, I think it will be worth it to get something better than what you listed.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      10-02-2012 11:06 PM #379
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Got some more info and news to share. I talked with Lee G. @ Koni and he tells me that the different PN for the FSDs for R32 only came out about a year ago and is only very slightly different. He said the fronts are still the exact same PN, only the rears are different. For the rears, the body is 10mm different (I think he said longer, but can't remember for sure now) and that it had slightly different dampening. He said if you already have the older PN to not worry about it - it was not a significant difference and certainly not worth the cost / effort to replace.

      As for ride height and spring questions, he basically re-iterated what he was quoted as saying in that other thread - stay off the bump stops and you should be fine. I asked if he thought linear springs that are stiffer rates than stock should be OK. He said linear vs progressive does not matter, and somewhat stiffer and/or lower is fine. He said that because they are not manually rebound adjustable, you should not go -too- much stiffer than stock - if so, get yellows. Or if you are lowering to the point where you can't avoid some bump stop contact - get yellows. Otherwise FSDs are fine.

      A note on yellows: Lee mentioned that while the different PNs between GTI and R32 are not significantly different for the FSDs, he said the difference for yellows IS significant, so if anyone is thinking of getting yellows, make sure you get the R32 PN from the Koni site before you order. A lot of the sites out there may still list the same PN for both GTI and R32.

      As for my set up with the Ground Control kit - GC insisted that the 5" long front springs would work for me and that I would not have an issue with travel. Maybe they work for the GTI, I don't know, but for me - first corner I took at an even semi quick pace and hit a bump - I slammed in to the bump stops hard and just as Koni described, the FSDs don't try to resist the rebound force so I bounced up and down 3 or 4 times off the bump stops from (I think) just one bump in the road. I could try cutting my bump stops, sure, but as easily and as hard as I hit them, I can't imagine I will recover enough travel unless completely removing them which can obviously kill the shocks, sooo yeah. I'm screwed. Not sure what to do next, but lesson learned - do NOT try to use a GC kit with Konis or any other shock with welded on perches UNLESS you know going in that you will have to cut / grind the perches off. Now I either have to do that, buy Ohlins or try to get GC to take the kit back and do something else all together.
      Wow. Jake I somehow feel responsible for setting you on this misbegotten path. I don't understand how the Ohlins and the Koni FSDs could be that different in height with or without the perch. A real head-scratcher for me. Here are my Ohlins set up with 7" 450lb/in Eibach springs:



      Here is the "stance" achieved with the 7" 450lb/in fronts and the 10" 350 lb/in rears (now about a 1/4" lower front and rear:



      Looking at where the perches are placed for the linear Eibach springs, it is hard to imagine that they are much lower than what you could have achieved on your FSDs. Regarding the rears, they were high initially (~25.5") but settled to around 24.75" after a week or so. That should have been your experience as well.

      "Too stiff" may be in the eye of the beholder or a function of how well the dampers work with the springs. As I mentioned in my updated post with pics:

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...content)/page2

      Since the install, I have maybe hit the bump stops in the front once, but only in the most extreme conditions. Previously, I was hitting the OEM bump stops frequently on much lesser irregularities.

      Moreover, by maintaining near stock ride-height, the ability of the suspension to "extend" into "dips" has been impressive--especially at higher speeds. Less so at lower speeds, but that is to be expected. Truth be told, the increased "stiffness" of the springs is really only felt at such low speeds. At 40 mph and above, the suspension seemingly does most of the work and makes the car feel "planted" and "stable", unlike the OEM suspension. Turning into corners, the front outside corner doesn't dive like before. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

    5. Member
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      10-02-2012 11:31 PM #380
      Jay - no man, I don't blame you at all (maybe GC to an extent). My main reason for posting this stuff is not to whine or blame, but hopefully to get at least some value out of my pain in the arse situation by possibly helping someone else avoid the same mistakes or have a better starting point if they want to try GC + Konis. Your descriptions of results with your set up make me REALLY tempted to just splurge a bit and go for the Ohlins, though I'm trying to reserve discretionary funds for another project (SC).

      BTW - what is "stock" ride height, anyway?

    6. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 03:21 PM #381
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      BTW - what is "stock" ride height, anyway?
      Good question...If someone finds the answer, please post up. I can measure my car when I get a chance.

      Thanks again for all the shared info here.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    7. Senior Member abeR's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 03:27 PM #382
      25.5 - 26 ftg
      WITW

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      10-03-2012 03:48 PM #383
      Ftg can change depending on the tires. How about middle of wheel/axle to fender?

    9. Senior Member abeR's Avatar
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      10-03-2012 03:51 PM #384
      Quote Originally Posted by BlixaBargeld View Post
      Ftg can change depending on the tires. How about middle of wheel/axle to fender?

      this measurement was on OEM tires/wheels. I dont have the middle of the axle to fender measurements.. but im sure they are out there.

      YRHMV
      WITW

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      10-14-2012 10:01 PM #385
      Quote Originally Posted by JRutter View Post
      Got results from Mike at TyrolSport today on spring rates for the VR6 A3. The only other bit of data beyond the measurements from this and my previous post is that the Euro springs lowered the front of my car by about 5/8" and kept the rear at the same ride height.

      In round numbers:

      S-Line F = 180 lb/in
      Euro F = 280 lb/in

      S-Line R = 250 lb/in
      Euro R = 330 lb/in

      Good to get real numbers. Did you happen to measure the spring lengths for these?

    11. Member JRutter's Avatar
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      10-15-2012 10:59 AM #386
      Measurements are back a couple of pages:
      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post79031543

      Someone mentioned that the stock springs are pretty much the same as the Mk5 R32. I think that Mike has test results for them vs Mk6 R springs in his build thread on that forum, but I'm running late and can't find it right this second.
      Last edited by JRutter; 10-15-2012 at 11:02 AM.
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      10-15-2012 03:47 PM #387
      Hey John, so are you planning to run the euro springs and Ohlins then? That seems like it might be a really good combo. Is there a "magic decoder ring" somewhere for those color dot abbreviations? Grn and Gry seem obvious enough but not sure about all the Ps (pink? purple?).

      BTW, on the "what is stock ride height" question, I measured my friend's bone stock R the other day (MKV with about 30K miles) and it was 26" all around. (His front left corner was about a 1/4" lower tho.)

      I'm in the process of following the suspension DIYs to take my GC stuff off. One thing I noticed when fiddling with adjusters before doing anything else was that I had to adjust the left vs right sides differently to get to the same height. With both sides full up, I got to 25.5 LR and about 25.75 RR. I had to drop the adjuster down about a half inch RR to even it out. Then when I put the stock rear springs back on its about the same difference, so its not an issue with the GC kit. Just curious if others who have measured all 4 corner heights have run in to this, or if those with coil-overs have had to adjust the height differently left to right to balance it. May be perfectly normal, IDK, or maybe something is a bit off with my car?

    13. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      10-15-2012 03:54 PM #388
      hrrmm, last time I adjusted my rear I had pretty equal ride height in the rear and the same amount of threads showing...
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

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      10-15-2012 04:13 PM #389
      You also haz that rigi cola mojo working

      Not asking specifically about front / rear / left / right, but just variations in general. I'm guessing that in a perfect world everything would be nice and symmetrical, but in reality, maybe its not uncommon for some asymmetry? Ryan's car is good - anyone else slightly off left to right (either front or back)?

    15. Member skaven-R32's Avatar
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      10-15-2012 04:20 PM #390
      FTG measurements can be impacted by very minute differences in what appears to be a perfectly level parking surface. I measured my FTG daily after my coil install and would see up to .25" swings despite parking in the same place every day.

      Maybe go from fender-to-hub measurements and it will be a bit more accurate for you?
      Quote Originally Posted by dubnick32 View Post
      That guy shouldn't own an R32. I bet he goes out dancing at least twice a week.

    16. Member JRutter's Avatar
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      10-15-2012 04:32 PM #391
      P=pink

      Yeah - I will be starting out with the base Ohlins and the Euro springs. I also ordered used Passat swivels and new TT arms and ball joints.

      I was wrong about measurements for the stock R32 springs, but the R20 springs are 185 F and 285 R.

      http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post78806300
      A VR6 AWD w/ lots of goodies

    17. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      10-17-2012 04:42 PM #392
      So, who's going to try some FSD's or Ohlins with the new VWR springs?
      Might be close to a perfect combination. I've updated the OP with specs for the VWR springs but here they are:
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Linear
      Front: 35 N/mm or ~200 lbs/in
      Rear: 45 N/mm or ~257 lbs/in
      Additional:
      Front Lowering - 10-15mm or .4" - .6"
      Rear Lowering - 8-13mm or .3" - .5"
      Last edited by Slave IV; 10-17-2012 at 06:15 PM.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      10-17-2012 06:09 PM #393
      Still surprised by the range of spring rates offered. There doesn't seem to be a consensus on what works best

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      10-17-2012 06:19 PM #394
      Slave IV
      So, who's going to try some FSD's or Ohlins with the new VWR springs?
      Might be close to a perfect combination. I've updated the OP with specs for the VWR springs but here they are:
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Linear
      Front: 35 N/mm or ~200 lbs/in
      Rear: 45 N/mm or ~257 lbs/in
      Additional:
      Front Lowering - 10-15mm or .4" - .6"
      Rear Lowering - 8-13mm or .3" - .5"
      If these had been around a couple months ago I would have got them fo sho. Sure wish they had been to save me some $$$ and serious frustrations, but I'm still glad to see this option now. It's awesome that new stuff is till coming out for our cars!

    20. Member Maxx-R32's Avatar
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      10-17-2012 07:41 PM #395
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      So, who's going to try some FSD's or Ohlins with the new VWR springs?
      Might be close to a perfect combination. I've updated the OP with specs for the VWR springs but here they are:
      Spring Type/Rates:
      Linear
      Front: 35 N/mm or ~200 lbs/in
      Rear: 45 N/mm or ~257 lbs/in
      Additional:
      Front Lowering - 10-15mm or .4" - .6"
      Rear Lowering - 8-13mm or .3" - .5"
      I am seriously thinking about it.
      No Longer 'Mostly Stock'

    21. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      10-17-2012 07:45 PM #396
      Quote Originally Posted by Maxx-R32 View Post
      I am seriously thinking about it.
      If you do, I really want a ride in your car sometime.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      10-19-2012 05:43 PM #397
      Anyone know where to get any kind of discount on APR/VWR stuff? Seems like everyone charges full retail. I'm prolly gonna order up some of them springs today.

    23. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      10-19-2012 05:46 PM #398
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Anyone know where to get any kind of discount on APR/VWR stuff? Seems like everyone charges full retail. I'm prolly gonna order up some of them springs today.
      Best I got was free shipping from Tyrol on my VWR mount. The price seems pretty reasonable to begin with.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      10-19-2012 06:02 PM #399
      Thanks for the tip, I'll ping Tyrol. Not complaining about the price - I just hate paying full retail for anything. Free shipping is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick

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      10-19-2012 07:45 PM #400
      Hey, I have asked a question on here before, and you guys helped me out, I wonder if you can again. As a role of thumb, do springs affect ride comfort more than shocks, or the other way around? For example would the ride comfort of KW V1 be similar to let's say H&R springs due to the spring rates? Or would the KW's be stiffer because of the springs and the struts?

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