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    Thread: Suspension spec thread

    1. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      03-13-2012 04:26 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by VAD@HPA View Post
      Agreed...when I receive the KW info, I will post it...
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

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      03-23-2012 06:17 PM #72
      When I purchased my Ohlins, Beau at Performance Shock talked me out of staying with stock springs--arguing that it would be a waste paired with such a capable damper. Jeff at Ohlins USA confirmed this (I was worried about changing spring rates without revalving--Jeff told me not to worry). Both suggested looking at linear springs with a somewhat higher rates. Two solutions seem to be out there: Tom at H2Sports and Ground Control (talk to Donovan) make conversion kits that allow linear race springs to be used on Ohlins dampers for our vehicles. Tom's kit looks really well thought out but pricier. I will receive the GC kit and springs next week and I'll report back. I'm going to give Eibachs (450 lb front and 350 rear) at stock ride height a try.
      Hey Jay, so if I understand correctly - you did not do an Ohlins coil over kit, but just bought Ohlins shocks and are pairing those with Eibach springs - but this requires a special adapter since you are getting constant rate springs?

      I'm interested in a spring upgrade and would also like to stay stock height and was thinking about the same for spring weights. I just got Koni FSD shocks last summer and am pretty happy with those. I am undecided as to constant or progressive rate springs though - as I want to remain more street set up focused then track and drive hard on (what can be) bumpy back roads, so I want some initial compliance / don't want my springs to beat me up too much. If I were to go constant rate though, any idea if I would need some sort of adaptor like you are talking about? H2Sports site is apparently down for maintenance, but I'll check out ground control and give Eibach a call to ask, but just wondered what infos / thoughts you might have. Thanks!

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      03-23-2012 11:51 PM #73
      Oh - I guess you are talking about this:

      http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=717/CA=65

      This MKV GTI kit fits, yeah? And the Eibach springs are included it looks like - nice!

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      03-24-2012 01:01 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Oh - I guess you are talking about this:

      http://www.ground-control-store.com/...p/II=717/CA=65

      This MKV GTI kit fits, yeah? And the Eibach springs are included it looks like - nice!
      Yep. That's the one. Here is what it looks like installed on the Ohlins.

      [IMG][/IMG]

      You remove the spring perch and the sleeve slides into place and then it works pretty much like any other coilover. The GC kit is reasonably solid, but there is some tweaking needed. For example, I needed to wrap the strut body with about 2 layers of 3M electrical tape to make the sleeve fit snuggly. I'm a bit stuck right now b/c the upper strut bearing adaptor is 0.75 mm too small to fit over the stock strut bearing. I'm waiting for a replacement. To their credit, GC has been extremely responsive.

      Some questions to those more wise than me in suspension matters:

      I'm still a bit leery about the spring length. GC recommended a 7" spring at 450 lb/in for the front and 350 lb/in for the rear. For the purposes of the photo of the front strut, I've got the lower spring perch at its max height. But with ~2200 lbs of front weight sitting on 900 lbs of springs--should I expect a compression of 2.44 in? This would leave me with about 1.8 inches of suspension travel. That doesn't seem like much, but then again, I don't know what the stock suspension travel is either. Comments?

      At the highest setting, there is also no spring precompression. This seems like it would limit the ability of the suspension to "droop" or extend to maintain tire contact to about 2.5 in as well. The OEM springs are highly compressed under the strut bearing even before being loaded by chassis weight. I imagine this would increase the ability of the inner tire to maintain road contact during a turn or to extend to maintain road contact during a dip in the road surface. Am I thinking about this correctly?

      What about front versus rear spring rates? Some seem to think the rear should be sprung more highly than the front. Whereas some kits seem to maintain a similar ratio to what I have (e.g., clubsports). Any insights into this?

    5. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      03-24-2012 11:53 AM #75
      7" inch sounds about right, I believe that's what my KW's are at. I hear for 450lb and higher you want 7" or shorter, any longer and the ride height would be effected. How long is the rear?

      I think that's a good rate, from what I've read these dampers can handle 30% more than stock. I'm not sure what stock is, but it looks like you have Ohlins blessing to run some decent rates. Al Walker and others had issues running too crazy of a rear rate: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post67411426

      I would go no higher than 450 in the rear, my 400's feel pretty stiff already. I could see a range of 450-550max up front.

      When you say there's no spring compression at the highest setting, is that when they're on the car? You should check with your GC guy on that, it's seems that you would want some preload.

      Overall they look very nice
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

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      03-24-2012 03:05 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryan E. View Post
      7" inch sounds about right, I believe that's what my KW's are at. I hear for 450lb and higher you want 7" or shorter, any longer and the ride height would be effected. How long is the rear?

      I think that's a good rate, from what I've read these dampers can handle 30% more than stock. I'm not sure what stock is, but it looks like you have Ohlins blessing to run some decent rates. Al Walker and others had issues running too crazy of a rear rate: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...1#post67411426

      I would go no higher than 450 in the rear, my 400's feel pretty stiff already. I could see a range of 450-550max up front.

      When you say there's no spring compression at the highest setting, is that when they're on the car? You should check with your GC guy on that, it's seems that you would want some preload.

      Overall they look very nice
      Thanks Ryan. They are not yet mounted, so for sure they will be compressed upon mounting. The rear springs are also 7" which seems shorter than some kits. I calculated the front spring rate to be about 300 lb/in based on some dubious calculations--so I'm closer to 50% over stock.

      I have plenty of room to lower the car if needed, so I could probably get away with taller springs, but it is odd that for each increase in length, you only seem to get only a small increase in usable travel distance (e.g., 450 lb/in Eibachs: 7" = 4.2" travel; 8" = 4.7"). Curious...

    7. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      03-26-2012 03:19 PM #77
      Thanks for the recent contributions

      I'm curious as to who came up with those rates as well...Ground Control?

      Ryan E, do you have aftermarket sways? It still makes logical sense to me to not use sways and go with stiffer spring rates in the rear than the front.

      With all this info around...we still have no answers about the stock setup huh? Man, I think that info would really help us come up with better solutions.

      Also, has anyone inquired with Swift Springs about custom springs and rates yet? I know they would be able to come up with some answers and a great solution if someone sent them stock springs for analysis.

      Those Ohlins look beautiful by the way
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    8. 03-26-2012 05:31 PM #78
      I wish I could remember his Vortex ID on here. I think his name was Mark? He owns and races (or used to race, been a few years) a super tricked out MKIV R32, and lived in Louisiana somewhere. He at one time, had been the fastest (SCCA) R32 in the country, and came close to doing great at the Solo II Nationals and Pro Solo. He might have some good insight on the specs we need.

      Another person would be Don Ishtook. He owns a shop here in Texas, and has been racing Audi, Porsche, and VW's for many years. He is the one who got SCCA to finally allow DSG in pro racing. It had been considered as an automatic trans, which is not allowed.



      http://www.istooks.com/

    9. Member Ryan E.'s Avatar
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      03-26-2012 05:41 PM #79
      No aftermarket sway bars on my car...

      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Thanks for the recent contributions

      I'm curious as to who came up with those rates as well...Ground Control?

      Ryan E, do you have aftermarket sways? It still makes logical sense to me to not use sways and go with stiffer spring rates in the rear than the front.

      With all this info around...we still have no answers about the stock setup huh? Man, I think that info would really help us come up with better solutions.

      Also, has anyone inquired with Swift Springs about custom springs and rates yet? I know they would be able to come up with some answers and a great solution if someone sent them stock springs for analysis.

      Those Ohlins look beautiful by the way
      Rigi Cola.


      "The VR6 was an orchestra of well-tuned cylindrical delights." - jalopnik.com

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      03-26-2012 09:20 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Thanks for the recent contributions

      I'm curious as to who came up with those rates as well...Ground Control?

      Ryan E, do you have aftermarket sways? It still makes logical sense to me to not use sways and go with stiffer spring rates in the rear than the front.

      With all this info around...we still have no answers about the stock setup huh? Man, I think that info would really help us come up with better solutions.

      Also, has anyone inquired with Swift Springs about custom springs and rates yet? I know they would be able to come up with some answers and a great solution if someone sent them stock springs for analysis.

      Those Ohlins look beautiful by the way
      Those rates were arrived at by talking to several people: Beau at Performance Shock; Dick Shine at SRSVW; and Jeff at Ohlins. All seemed to agree that 400 was the minimum they would consider and Dick Shine was talking about 500 lbs front (with Bilsteins). I figured why not start at 450 as 500 lbs seemed like more of a race set up than a dual purpose car. My only concern was the spring length and there GC went to great lengths to convince me to give 7" a try. For the rear rates, there was some consensus. Beau of PS and GC thought running the same rate springs or higher out back would make things squirrely. I knew that Ryan's clubsports ran lower rates on the back springs, so 350 rears seemed like a reasonable match with 450 lb fronts. Again, my only leap of faith was the spring length: 7" seems too short, but then again GC has set up plenty of mkV vehicles so it's not as though they have no experience to offer. Time will tell.

      Now that I'm this far into the experiment, I'm asking myself why I didn't just stick with the stock springs?

      On the other hand, I've learned a fair amount about suspension set ups and I'm always up for an experiment that doesn't put my life at risk

    11. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      03-26-2012 09:52 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      Those rates were arrived at by talking to several people: Beau at Performance Shock; Dick Shine at SRSVW; and Jeff at Ohlins. All seemed to agree that 400 was the minimum they would consider and Dick Shine was talking about 500 lbs front (with Bilsteins). I figured why not start at 450 as 500 lbs seemed like more of a race set up than a dual purpose car. My only concern was the spring length and there GC went to great lengths to convince me to give 7" a try. For the rear rates, there was some consensus. Beau of PS and GC thought running the same rate springs or higher out back would make things squirrely. I knew that Ryan's clubsports ran lower rates on the back springs, so 350 rears seemed like a reasonable match with 450 lb fronts. Again, my only leap of faith was the spring length: 7" seems too short, but then again GC has set up plenty of mkV vehicles so it's not as though they have no experience to offer. Time will tell.

      Now that I'm this far into the experiment, I'm asking myself why I didn't just stick with the stock springs?

      On the other hand, I've learned a fair amount about suspension set ups and I'm always up for an experiment that doesn't put my life at risk
      Thanks ryeboy! I'm looking forward to hearing your review once you get it all sorted.
      As for your earlier comment about spring length and suspension travel, I'd think it would have to do with how many coils and a few other factors (if one spring type uses more coils, it would probably reduce the overall suspension travel).
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    12. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 07:23 PM #82
      cross posting for posterity:
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      OEM RSB FTMFW!

      OK, got carried away with the acro-speak.

      Pulled my Neuspeed Rear Sway Bar off and put the OEM one back on. Left the Neuspeed billet end links on... they look cool, they still work for taking the slop out of the bar, and besides, *ahem*, one of the cone washers was sort of frozen in place on the mounting bolt. I have replaced that bolt once after the 2009 Fastivus when I discovered it had fallen off. I have a vague recollection that the bolt I used was more of an interference fit with the cone washer than the stock one.

      I am listening to those with more experience than I (you know who you are) who have pointed out to me that 'lifting the rear inside wheel' is not really the same thing as 'great handling'. I'm going to try the OEM RSB at a track day next weekend. If I like it, I'll probably dump the Neuspeed.

      Did my usual 'test cloverleaf' after the install. I wouldn't say the OEM RSB is 'clearly superior', but it's also not 'clearly inferior'. There's a little more body lean, particularly in response to a 'panic lane change' input. It was rainy out, so it was difficult to really pull max G's. Still, I got it loose a bunch of times, and it still seems to be retaining the 'scary neutral' characteristics. I am running the upgraded Haldex with switch set on 'race' full time.

      I'm pretty sure I substantially tamed the trailing throttle oversteer / lift throttle oversteer I've had for a couple years (ever since I added the race haldex to the RSB). I actually set out to initiate trailing throttle oversteer on a few passes, and I couldn't get it to break away. I could feel the chassis unsettle and lean, but it wouldn't break the tail loose. I could 'set' the tail out a bit under hard throttle, but not on the lift.

      So for the moment, I am back to 'box stock' suspension, except for the end links and lighter wheels. About 82,600 on the clock.
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      03-31-2012 09:39 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      cross posting for posterity:
      Peach, an interesting experiment. Please update after you've had some track time on the OEM RSB. Are you going to be able to compare lap times from before (neuspeed) and after (OEM)? Or are there too many other variables in play?

    14. Member Mr_Peach's Avatar
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      03-31-2012 10:20 PM #84
      Too many variables, I'm afraid
      1. I'm not that consistent, my lap times with transponders are all over the place
      2. My regional Audi club doesn't like timing, it goes against their charter
      3. I've not been to Oregon Raceway Park before. Should be fun!
      "If the car feels like it's on rails, you are probably driving too slowly." - Ross Bentley, Ultimate Speed Secrets

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      03-31-2012 11:05 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Peach View Post
      Too many variables, I'm afraid
      1. I'm not that consistent, my lap times with transponders are all over the place
      2. My regional Audi club doesn't like timing, it goes against their charter
      3. I've not been to Oregon Raceway Park before. Should be fun!
      Alas, we'll have to depend on the well-seasoned Peach butt dyno for an answer

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      04-05-2012 12:35 PM #86
      Hey all, I'm thinking of doing the same GC kit as Ryeboy (only with Koni FSD shocks) though I'm not completely sure that I want strait rate springs. I'm odd in that I am focusing more on a bumpy backroad thashing set up then a smooth track set up, so I want to go stiffer than stock, stay stock ride height so as not to loose any travel, and still have some initial give in the compression to take the edge off sharp bumps. Bump compliance is not a concern to me in terms of comfort, but more in terms of keeping the chasis stable and planted, and also not setting up so stiff that the car is beating itself up and developing all kinds of rattles and such. I am wondering if I could do something such as a Passat H&R sport spring kit, idea being stiffer but still progressive springs but not lowering as the R32 spec H&Rs would. Thoughts on that or other ideas? Thanks!

    17. Senior Member abeR's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 12:55 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by Harry_Krishna View Post
      I wish I could remember his Vortex ID on here. I think his name was Mark? He owns and races (or used to race, been a few years) a super tricked out MKIV R32, and lived in Louisiana somewhere. He at one time, had been the fastest (SCCA) R32 in the country, and came close to doing great at the Solo II Nationals and Pro Solo. He might have some good insight on the specs we need.

      Another person would be Don Ishtook. He owns a shop here in Texas, and has been racing Audi, Porsche, and VW's for many years. He is the one who got SCCA to finally allow DSG in pro racing. It had been considered as an automatic trans, which is not allowed.



      http://www.istooks.com/

      hey harry

      that was mark smith

      more info here

      http://www.3zero3motorsports.com/blo...ew-mark-smith/


      WITW2014 UNIbrace

    18. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 03:05 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      Hey all, I'm thinking of doing the same GC kit as Ryeboy (only with Koni FSD shocks) though I'm not completely sure that I want strait rate springs. I'm odd in that I am focusing more on a bumpy backroad thashing set up then a smooth track set up, so I want to go stiffer than stock, stay stock ride height so as not to loose any travel, and still have some initial give in the compression to take the edge off sharp bumps. Bump compliance is not a concern to me in terms of comfort, but more in terms of keeping the chasis stable and planted, and also not setting up so stiff that the car is beating itself up and developing all kinds of rattles and such. I am wondering if I could do something such as a Passat H&R sport spring kit, idea being stiffer but still progressive springs but not lowering as the R32 spec H&Rs would. Thoughts on that or other ideas? Thanks!
      It sounds like progressive springs may be a good idea or getting helper springs like you see on the KW kits. You might want to try a car with Ohlins and I think anyone serious about suspension owes it to themselves to try before buying anything because you really will be amazed at how comfortable they are on top of the performance they give. I haven't tried out too many suspensions for the MkV platform but I've tried all kinds on different cars and I really have never felt anything that was comparable to Ohlins...Just have a complete comfort and confidence inspiring feel and I think it's mostly due to the dampers ability to react much faster than most competitors.


      Oh, thanks for the link abe!
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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      04-05-2012 06:00 PM #89
      Great thread! How did I not find this earlier??? Definitely amazed at the lack of info out there as I'm starting my search for a new suspension AST's seem to be the leading candidate at the moment but I've got some time since I won't be back on track with the R until November.

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    20. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 07:19 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by -VDubSack- View Post
      Great thread! How did I not find this earlier??? Definitely amazed at the lack of info out there as I'm starting my search for a new suspension AST's seem to be the leading candidate at the moment but I've got some time since I won't be back on track with the R until November.

      Subscribed
      Thanks! I just updated the OP with info on Camber Plates since that has been a hot topic (I only know of the GC option and forgot the other one..if anyone remembers, please post), VW Racing options and some more info on the Ohlins based on discussion in this thread.

      Keep the info coming guys...an informed consumer helps reduce un-needed products and makes room for more better products in the world!
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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      04-05-2012 07:29 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Thanks! I just updated the OP with info on Camber Plates since that has been a hot topic (I only know of the GC option and forgot the other one..if anyone remembers, please post), VW Racing options and some more info on the Ohlins based on discussion in this thread.

      Keep the info coming guys...an informed consumer helps reduce un-needed products and makes room for more better products in the world!
      FWIW, Dick Shine snickered about the "dainty" GC camber plate and its tendency to destruct on the track. Of course, he may be developing his own, so take it for what it's worth. Nonetheless, he did have good things to say about Vorshlag's plate, but I don't think they make a mkV kit.

    22. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 07:43 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by ryeboy View Post
      FWIW, Dick Shine snickered about the "dainty" GC camber plate and its tendency to destruct on the track. Of course, he may be developing his own, so take it for what it's worth. Nonetheless, he did have good things to say about Vorshlag's plate, but I don't think they make a mkV kit.
      Noted...I searched myself and it seems like the only other option besides coilovers with built in plates and the VWR specific plates is from H2Sport but there is is very little info about them including where to purchase so I'm leaving them off the OP for now.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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      04-05-2012 08:02 PM #93
      smaller tires, camber, more low

    24. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 09:31 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by Aviator. View Post
      smaller tires, camber, more low
      Mods (if there are any, lol), please delete the last post by Aviator j/k
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      04-05-2012 09:34 PM #95
      I did some calling around today, talked to someone at Swift Springs, someone at Vorshlag, and someone at Performance Shock. They all seemed to agree that if I wanted to stay stock ride height, a kit like what Ryboy is doing is the way to go as everything else is designed to lower, and they all basically said that it might be possible to find just springs that would work, but could potentially be very difficult to find just the right combination of length and weight, so might take some trial and error.

      I'm glad helper springs were mentioned, I didn't know what those were before - seems like they might help achieve what I'm after. The above guys I talked to seemed to think they might be worth trying with a GC kit as well. Ryeboy - just curious - had you considered helper springs at all? I have not asked GC about them yet, but will next time I call them.

      FYI to anyone looking at the AST kit from Vorshlag - the guy mentioned to me that they do not normally stock that kit and would be about a 6 week lead time to order it.

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      04-05-2012 09:35 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Mods (if there are any, lol), please delete the last post by Aviator j/k

    27. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 09:44 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      I did some calling around today, talked to someone at Swift Springs, someone at Vorshlag, and someone at Performance Shock. They all seemed to agree that if I wanted to stay stock ride height, a kit like what Ryboy is doing is the way to go as everything else is designed to lower, and they all basically said that it might be possible to find just springs that would work, but could potentially be very difficult to find just the right combination of length and weight, so might take some trial and error.

      I'm glad helper springs were mentioned, I didn't know what those were before - seems like they might help achieve what I'm after. The above guys I talked to seemed to think they might be worth trying with a GC kit as well. Ryeboy - just curious - had you considered helper springs at all? I have not asked GC about them yet, but will next time I call them.

      FYI to anyone looking at the AST kit from Vorshlag - the guy mentioned to me that they do not normally stock that kit and would be about a 6 week lead time to order it.
      Good to know! I think most of them agree that you could use slightly lower springs with the Ohlins if you did want to lower a bit too. That still seems like the best option to me no matter what your goal is (unless it is just to get as low as possible with no care for ride quality or handling). You may be thinking about it a bit too much at this point and if possible, just try the Ohlins with stock springs or something close and I'm willing to bet they will give you everything you are asking for. Their ability to handle bumps is amazing compared to anything else I've experienced.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
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      04-05-2012 09:59 PM #98
      Good to know! I think most of them agree that you could use slightly lower springs with the Ohlins if you did want to lower a bit too. That still seems like the best option to me no matter what your goal is (unless it is just to get as low as possible with no care for ride quality or handling). You may be thinking about it a bit too much at this point and if possible, just try the Ohlins with stock springs or something close and I'm willing to bet they will give you everything you are asking for. Their ability to handle bumps is amazing compared to anything else I've experienced.
      I know Ohlins makes top shelf stuff, but also $$$ right? I'll have to see how much they cost - now I'm curiuos. You may be right that Ohlins shocks with the right valving would do the trick for me - sounds worth looking at. I just put Koni FSD shocks on last summer though and I feel they have taken me a noticeable step in the direction I want to go. I feel that I just need a bit more compression dampening now, particularly in the front. I wish I could just find springs that would put me at stock ride height (or at least less than 1" lower) while being stiff enough for me to keep the nose of my car from diving so hard when I hit mid corner bumps - my front air dam is ground down to maybe half what it was now. Seems like it should not be that complicated or expensive of a problem to solve, IDK... If Ryeboy's kit works out I'll probably just go that route.

    29. 04-05-2012 10:14 PM #99
      Just curious if anyone out there has experience with driving on Ohlins and KW clubsports. I think those two products would make for a very interesting comparison.

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      04-05-2012 10:28 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Good to know! I think most of them agree that you could use slightly lower springs with the Ohlins if you did want to lower a bit too. That still seems like the best option to me no matter what your goal is (unless it is just to get as low as possible with no care for ride quality or handling). You may be thinking about it a bit too much at this point and if possible, just try the Ohlins with stock springs or something close and I'm willing to bet they will give you everything you are asking for. Their ability to handle bumps is amazing compared to anything else I've experienced.
      I wish I could report more. Every thing is ready to install, but I've had to wait for boots that would fit over the massive Ohlins pistons and under the springs. GC also forgot to include the steel rings upon which the sleeves rest...so I was waiting for those. Tomorrow, I go out of town for a week, so my time table keeps getting pushed back.

      Untitled

      The rear springs shown are 7" and as Ryan astutely noted, they are too short. They will fall out if the rear is jacked up enough to raise the wheel. Plus, they drop the rear about 1.5". GC is sending 8" springs that should do the trick. Hopefully, once this is sorted out, I'll have some firm recommendations to offer and impressions to share.

    31. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-05-2012 10:39 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by motrrrpsycho View Post
      I know Ohlins makes top shelf stuff, but also $$$ right? I'll have to see how much they cost - now I'm curiuos. You may be right that Ohlins shocks with the right valving would do the trick for me - sounds worth looking at. I just put Koni FSD shocks on last summer though and I feel they have taken me a noticeable step in the direction I want to go. I feel that I just need a bit more compression dampening now, particularly in the front. I wish I could just find springs that would put me at stock ride height (or at least less than 1" lower) while being stiff enough for me to keep the nose of my car from diving so hard when I hit mid corner bumps - my front air dam is ground down to maybe half what it was now. Seems like it should not be that complicated or expensive of a problem to solve, IDK... If Ryeboy's kit works out I'll probably just go that route.
      Ohlin dampers are just under $2k and if you used with the stock springs, no revalving needed and you should be good to go. They should be fine even with some lowering springs that you can get from Eibach or Swift without additional valving and you'd still be under the price of KW Clubsports.

      ryeboy, thanks for the updates and pics! Was the GC kit a necessary thing for you to get to work with the Ohlins or you just decided to go all out? I didn't think much into it before but if you could clarify, that would be great. I thought you could just get the Ohlins and use with stock springs or any aftermarket springs that work with the stock setup.

      Quote Originally Posted by Lost Sailor View Post
      Just curious if anyone out there has experience with driving on Ohlins and KW clubsports. I think those two products would make for a very interesting comparison.
      I've driven on Ohlins and KW V3's but on different platforms from the MkV. I can say there was a night and day difference between the two where the Ohlins just gave an overwhelmingly sense of control, stability and smoothness while the KW V3's felt very good, but much harsher. I have no idea what each setup was set at but after driving on Ohlins, my eyes lit up and I've been set on going that route since if I ever do suspension on any car. Motons should be very comparable to Ohlins but those setups are even more rare, especially on our MkV platform.
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
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      04-06-2012 12:05 AM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by Slave IV View Post
      Ohlin dampers are just under $2k and if you used with the stock springs, no revalving needed and you should be good to go. They should be fine even with some lowering springs that you can get from Eibach or Swift without additional valving and you'd still be under the price of KW Clubsports.

      ryeboy, thanks for the updates and pics! Was the GC kit a necessary thing for you to get to work with the Ohlins or you just decided to go all out? I didn't think much into it before but if you could clarify, that would be great. I thought you could just get the Ohlins and use with stock springs or any aftermarket springs that work with the stock setup.



      I've driven on Ohlins and KW V3's but on different platforms from the MkV. I can say there was a night and day difference between the two where the Ohlins just gave an overwhelmingly sense of control, stability and smoothness while the KW V3's felt very good, but much harsher. I have no idea what each setup was set at but after driving on Ohlins, my eyes lit up and I've been set on going that route since if I ever do suspension on any car. Motons should be very comparable to Ohlins but those setups are even more rare, especially on our MkV platform.
      I think I've said it before... when buying the Ohlins, I was explaining my intent to pair them with slightly stiffer S3 OEM springs to Beau at Performance Shock. He argued that plan was a waste of an amazing damper like the Ohlins. He got me thinking about using the Ohlins as base to build a coilover kit that would allow near stock ride height to preserve suspension geometry. The rest is history. Of course I did due diligence with Jeff at Ohlins USA who really like the idea and gave his blessing to the spring rates. As SlaveIV has pointed out repeatedly, there would be much less guess work if we knew the rates of the stock springs

      I had crudely estimated the stock spring rates by measuring the difference in spring length when compressed versus unloaded. I arrived at about 275 lb/in for the fronts and 225 for the rears. The effective rear spring rate is complicated by the fact that the rear spring is placed further inboard relative to the front springs (~0.65 of the rear LCA versus ~0.9 of the front LCA). In other words, even if the actual spring rate of the front and rear springs were comparable, the effective spring rate of the rear would appear less because it is closer to the fulcrum of the lever (if that makes any sense). The rear springs also carry less weight (~700 lbs each) versus the front (~1150 each)--but that difference in sprung weight is almost precisely the difference in their placement on their respective LCAs. The rear springs are also mounted more at an angle relative to the fronts, so one needs to account for that. Taking all these vagaries into account is how I arrived at the loosey-goosey 275/225 lb/in estimated rates for front/rear respectively. Keeping those rates roughly in proportion and taking it up a notch is how I arrived at 450/350 lb/in for the Eibach spring rates I requested for the GC kit. Technically, my calculations would indicate that I need a stronger rear spring than 350, but GC strongly urged me to stay at 350. As my back of the napkin calculations on OEM spring rates were arguably lame, I decided to cede to the common wisdom. If they were right, cool. If I followed their suggestions and they were wrong, I had a stronger bargaining position to argue for them to ship out a stronger spring

      As I already said, GC was wrong about the 7" rear spring length, but they immediately sent out new 8" springs and a return shipping label for the 7 inchers. Hopefully, they'll do the same if the 350 lb/in rating doesn't match the fronts. Whatever GC has lacked in raw expertise has been compensated for by their excellent customer service. Kudos.

      Slowly, but surely, I'm getting closer to giving the Ohlins a proper evaluation. Hopefully, this experiment will be worth it. The process has been more complicated than I had hoped, but it is all relative. Sometimes I have to remember what Tom of Innovative MS went through to make Jesse's car an R36/MT. Then I feel like a complete wuss for any griping

    33. Member -VDubSack-'s Avatar
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      04-06-2012 12:45 AM #103
      I recently had the chance to ride in the Stasis A4 around Summit Point and it was running their top of the line Ohlins coilovers. From what I could feel from the passenger seat the car had an amazingly smooth ride for being VERY composed, especially through the highly technical carousel. The car was also running Michelin PS2's so I can't tell how exactly how much was on the suspension vs. the tires but either way the car was extremely well sorted and honestly felt like a well balanced RWD car.

      When talking with some of the Stasis/Eurojet engineers they said they were hoping to get going on building VW suspension products and specifically R-line cars My only concern, which I shared with them was I wasn't looking for them to offer entry level" packages seeing as generally it's a lower price point market than the Audi guys. I was reassured that they would try to offer top notch solutions for the R-line guys as we might be more inclined to spend more than the average GTI driver(no disrespect intended).

      Anywho, I'll keep searching and knocking 'em back until something tangible is produced but thought I'd share the feedback

      EDIT: The guys at Stasis/Eurojet were also UBER good guys, when I needed to bleed my brakes after my 1st track day they took care of me by scrounging up some Motul 5.1. If they hadn't been there to help I might not have made the 2nd day
      Last edited by -VDubSack-; 04-06-2012 at 12:51 AM.
      "My car is a Wookie, your argument is invalid"

    34. Member Slave IV's Avatar
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      04-06-2012 03:09 PM #104
      Ok, thanks for the details ryeboy..I still thought the Ohlins came ready to go with stock springs and gave stock ride height without any additional parts and I thought they were already a "coilover" type setup. When I was going back to update the OP, I noticed the AST kit comes with 7" front coils and 9" rear coils...might be something worth noting/comparing.

      -VDubSack-...The Stasis Ohlins are great and those are some cool cats. The Ohlins I've experienced were the Stasis Motorsports for the B5 S4 and B7 RS4 platforms. As I mentioned before, these cars have been the most comfortable and most composed handling cars with aftermarket suspensions I've ever experienced. I've tried the same cars with KW V3's, Bilsteins and several other types of suspension and nothing felt close to the Ohlins in composure or comfort. It will be nice to see what they do for the VW R-cars but I almost would rather see Performance Shock do something for us with the new TTX Ohlin Dampers like the ones I pictured earlier for my S4.

      Anyways, looking forward to hearing the impressions from ryeboy when you get it all on your car and go have some fun with it!
      If your gas cap light comes on even if you think you tightened the cap, try pulling on the cap as you tighten it. Worked for me.
      Help us with suspension specs!
      Vag Evolution: MkI Rabbit -> MkII 16v GTI -> B5 S4/MkV .:R32

    35. 04-07-2012 05:15 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by abeR View Post
      hey harry

      that was mark smith

      more info here

      http://www.3zero3motorsports.com/blo...ew-mark-smith/


      Thanks for the link, and wave Abe! Yes, that is HIM! If ever there was a monster R32, this is the one. And even when running in the "Street" Touring class a few years back, that car was no longer streetable. He went way out on it. Pushed the class rules to the total limits.


      Man, you guys are so lucky! When I got my R (and had the money and a job), there was nothing available, and no information on setups or specs like you are finding today. I bought the KW V3 setup as they just came out, were the only ones out, and had previously used them on my STi. Even the intakes and exhaust systems were just starting to trickle in. Oh if only I could do it all over again, today! Those Ohlins are making me drool! But right now, I am just lucky I still have my R (and only 23K miles on it), and have at least decent goodies on it

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